231 réponses à ce sujet

[LightningPoodle]

*cracks knuckes*

 

Let's get to work.

 

*kills some dirty Elves*

[Insaner Robot]

Racial cleansing, guilt by blood, conviction of the innocent, religious persecution, eugenics, mythical collectivization of government action, and a repeat of a disastrous foreign policy the last elven hermit kingdom wouldn't even abide to last time.

 

I dunno. Aside from the 'ewe' factor of a xenophobic racial purity state, that sounds like a baaaaahd decision, blacksheep. Sounds like it'd herd the elves more than it'd help. You sure someone didn't pull the wool over your eyes when it came to history 101?

 

 Extreme applause for ewe pun. That was a stroke of genius. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

How could I stand your intellect? It's tiny. Does it stack on something, or does it just kind of wallow there?

As for having your own mind, most of the time you just repeat the arguments of not very respected old white guys. When you can't be bothered to do that, you just retreat to the realm of 'it's, like, my opinion maaaan,' and don't even do that much. The bastion of intellectual independence you are not.

Though I do applaud you for adding 'intellect' to your repertoire of stock words. That's new, if inauthentic- people confident in their own intellect don't need to go around stating their own intellect. It's the argument equivalent of 'I do too have friends- you just never see them!'


Which part- South Africa, circa some unreformed Anglo-Dutch settlers? Because you sure act like a stereotypical white bigot, and most people of African descent don't. Especially those in the American political context, where rigid segregation, racial exclusion, and 'not one drop' racial classification systems are considered bad things, not desirable end-states for a state.

Now, mind you, that doesn't mean you can't be what you'd like us to think you are- it'd be racist to discount the possibility just because you'd be a deviant from the norm- but I'm not seeing much to support it either. It's easy to claim just about anything as part of an internet persona.

Internet being what it is, I guess you're just not credible enough to warrant a racial classification. Bar something really convincing, you'll just be another poster, an anonymous grey like everyone else.

What I am striving for is recovery and stability for the people who have been oppressed by the oppressor and living with the oppressor as a way of this so called "unity" never works, so separation is the best solution to have peace and leaving each other alone is the best way. How is that bigotry for leaving people alone who are known for commiting evil upon different races? How is it bigotry of people who want to gave a place of their own without having to go through the racial violence under their influence? You just want to make fun of me because you can't form a productive debate, and not even try to prove me wrong. You can ridicule me and call me names all you want but I still believe what I believe and I will not back down for what I believe in.

[Dean_the_Young]

 Extreme applause for ewe pun. That was a stroke of genius. 

 

Thank eye, thank ewe.

 

 

What I am striving for is recovery and stability for the people who have been oppressed by the oppressor and living with the oppressor as a way of this so called "unity" never works, so separation is the best solution to have peace and leaving each other alone is the best way.

 

And your proposed solution is a historically ruinous, morally abhorrent recipie of bigotry and oppression with nothing but a slight change to the demographics of the racist overlords.

 

I've never contested your intentions, merely your competence. And basic morality.

 

 

How is that bigotry for leaving people alone who are known for commiting evil upon different races?

 

 

Why yes, the elves are known to have been cruel and oppressive to others at the zenith of their power. That would be a part of the bigotry.

 

The other is by discriminating on account of race, denying free association across demographic lines, and advocating religious oppression as a means to a utopian ideal. Those are bigoted practices.

 

 

How is it bigotry of people who want to gave a place of their own without having to go through the racial violence under their influence?

 

 

 

 

By discriminating on account of race, denying free association across demographic lines, and advocating religious oppression as a means to a utopian ideal.

 

'Wanting' is irrelevant when compared to your actions.

 

You just want to make fun if me because you can't form a productive debate, and not even try to prove me wrong.

 

History proves you wrong. I just let you demonstrate how you're a bigot with a poor understanding of it.

 

By, among other things, failing to recognize the failings, moral and practical, of discriminating on account of race, denying free association across demographic lines, and advocating religious oppression as a means to a utopian ideal.

 

 

You can ridicule me and call me names all you want but I still believe what I believe and I will not back down.

 

 

Saying you stand proud for bigoted principles while simultaneously retreating to 'it's, like, my opinion maaaaan'- here, in your very own defense- is far from bravery. Not in a setting where you are at no risk of anything beyond textual condemnation, and not when you backdown in your very statement of defiance. 

 

You don't stand for your beliefs- you cower from them, unable to defend them and unable to acknowledge them or be associated with them when challenged by what they are. You didn't justify a discriminatory practice like miscegenation on your own terms- you scurried from it, desperate to cast it as anything else in hopes anyone would forget that your grand vision for a better elven nation is one in which a profoundly racist principle of 'just one drop' is ruthlessly enforced with immediate and absolute exile.

 

You backed down. You hide behind your aegis of opinion and online anonyminity. And while you'll no doubt emerge from your intellectual turtle shell one day to repeat the same thing, in all likely hood you'll draw back in just as quickly when challenged once more, still unable to formulate even a basic defense for the bigotry you claim to hate and oppose and consistently demonstrate.

 

That, BaaBaaBlackSheep, or N7Phantom, or whatever you wish to call yourself next, is why you're ridiculous.

[Tidus]

Lightning Poodle,Is that one of Sera's arrows sticking out of your eye? 

[Xerrai]

I have a solution for elves to have stability and independence from human influence by setting up a treaty.

- Give the elves the Emerald Graves and The Arbor Wilds and have all human settlers evicted, and all elves evicted from human cities all over Thedas to live in the lands with the elven community.

-The Imperium and all human nations will compensate the elves for their disparites and slavery as reparations.

-The Chantry and human settlers are not allowed to settle in elven territory nor the Chantry will have missionaries.

-They will only ally with Grey Wardens and human nations to fight the darkspawn and to trade.
-No human religion teachings
-If an elf is having relationship with a human he/she is automatically exiled to keep the peace.
-If a human entered their territory to harass, attempt to start a war, disturbing the peace, or any kind of crime against the elves will be dealt with in the elves discretion.

Uh......how about no?
You are essentially making problems worse. It was racism, my-race-is-better-than-yours thinking and unwillingness to accept other relations of the various races that lead to elves being oppressed in the first place.
Now you want the elves to repeat the same mistakes, only with elves as the oppressors? It wouldn't even be limited to humans who enter thier lands, but to other elves that want little than to believe a different religion or converse with humans.

And this is not taking into account how other countries will seek to crush them because of thier isolationist/Chantry-related censure ways. Did you learn nothing from the fall of the Dales? Except your plan will add blatant human based antagonism into the mix.

[Tidus]

Xerrai,And the Chantry will continue to preach and teach racism against the Elves making the humans more bigoted against the Elves.

 

The solution is not so simple because the Chantry will need to accept Elves as equals and not the pawns of false Gods and the devil. There are precious  few of the self-righteous sisters that will go to a Alienage to perform a marriage.

 

This is why I let my Elven HOF live by doing Morrigan's DR.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Uh......how about no?
You are essentially making problems worse. It was racism, my-race-is-better-than-yours thinking and unwillingness to accept other relations of the various races that lead to elves being oppressed in the first place.
Now you want the elves to repeat the same mistakes, only with elves as the oppressors? It wouldn't even be limited to humans who enter thier lands, but to other elves that want little than to believe a different religion or converse with humans.

And this is not taking into account how other countries will seek to crush them because of thier isolationist/Chantry-related censure ways. Did you learn nothing from the fall of the Dales? Except your plan will add blatant human based antagonism into the mix.

*deep sigh* OK racism would be if elves enslaved humans and dehumanize them, treating them like 2nd class citizens, and put them in ghettos and humans to worship the elven gods and terrorizing defenseless humans by raping human women, killing them for sport, and purging human alienages. That's racism. But what I put is not racism it's a solution for elves who want to have a place e of their own, and free from the racial strife from humans, and all they have to do is to leave the elves alone so they can recover and heal themselves. What I offer is a win-win situation that elves don't have to be with human cities as 3rd class citizens and slaves, and all they have to do is to leave each other alone until they learn how to get along if humans decide to change their ways of how they view elves. And the Chantry is nothing but a human supremacist religious system of mind control by worshipping an imaginary figure of a made up god anyways.(http://www.alternet....white-supremacy)

[Xerrai]

*deep sigh* OK racism would be if elves enslaved humans and dehumanize them, treating them like 2nd class citizens, and put them in ghettos and humans to worship the elven gods and terrorizing defenseless humans by raping human women, killing them for sport, and purging human alienages. That's racism. But what I put is not racism it's a solution for elves who want to have a place e of their own, and free from the racial strife from humans, and all they have to do is to leave the elves alone so they can recover and heal themselves. What I offer is a win-win situation that elves don't have to be with human cities as 3rd class citizens and slaves, and all they have to do is to leave each other alone until they learn how to get along if humans decide to change their ways of how they view elves. And the Chantry is nothing but a human supremacist religious system of mind control by worshipping an imaginary figure of a made up god anyways.(http://www.alternet....white-supremacy)

Unfortunately, racism is a bit more than oppression. It's a way of thinking as much as it can become a form of expression. But many agree that thinking one race is superior or lesser than another, is the main characteristic of racism.

So while at first glance your idea does not seem to support it, in practice that 'humans who enter here shall face force' policy will likely fuel anti-human mentalities. That it is less for "allowing elves to heal" and more because "humans are bad". Not allowing the elves to contact humans (save for trade), and thus never get to know them, will only encourage this thinking.
Similarly, the humans will be left to thier own devices on how to view the elves. Humans not allowed? Diplomatic envoys faced with forced expulsion? Cross-racial unions not only frowned upon, but illegal?
It will only be too easy to paint the new nation as little more than an anti-human collection of savages. And why wouldn't they? They never allowed any other Country to know them, and visitors are all but forbidden under threat of forceful expulsion or violence.

It basically sounds nice in theory, but in practice it will fold out nothing like you envision.

In building walls of policy to keep humans out, you also imprison elves into ways of thinking that put the elven of the dales over everyone else. Even other elves.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Unfortunately, racism is a bit more than oppression. It's a way of thinking as much as it can become a form of expression. But many agree that thinking one race is superior or lesser than another, is the main characteristic of racism.
So while at first glance your idea does not seem to support it, in practice that 'humans who enter here shall face force' policy will likely fuel anti-human mentalities. That it is less for "allowing elves to heal" and more because "humans are bad". Not allowing the elves to contact humans (save for trade), and thus never get to know them, will only encourage this thinking.
Similarly, the humans will be left to thier own devices on how to view the elves. Humans not allowed? Diplomatic envoys faced with forced expulsion? Cross-racial unions not only frowned upon, but illegal?
It will only be too easy to paint the new nation as little more than an anti-human collection of savages. And why wouldn't they? They never allowed any other Country to know them, and visitors are all but forbidden under threat of forceful expulsion or violence.
It basically sounds nice in theory, but in practice it will fold out nothing like you envision.
In building walls of policy to keep humans out, you also imprison elves into ways of thinking that put the elven of the dales over everyone else. Even other elves.

I'm not saying humans should be discriminated or killed on sight I'm saying that if humans came to the elves to start mess, then the elves have the right to kick them out. If a human attempted to rape and murder elves, they have the right to prosecute them and to decide their fate. They can visit only for trade, diplomatic relations between two peoples, and Grey Wardens come to ask their help to fight the darkspawn. But they cannot buy and own property or convert the elves to the Chantry.

[Xerrai]

I'm not saying humans should be dicriminated or killed on sight I'm saying that if humans came to the elves to start mess, then the elves have the right to kick them out. If a human attempted to rape and murder elves, they have the right to prosecute them and to decide their fate. Does that make sense?

It does, but your plan went beyond simple self defense against humans.

In your plan, an elf having loving relations with a human would have to exiled to "keep the peace". Basically making intimate relations with a human illegal within the elven territory.

And the Chantry would all but be forbidden from entering the land seeing as how you will not allow even missionaries to enter. By and large because you identify the Chantry being innately pro human supremacy. Ignoring that a great majority of city elves are andrastian.
And you forbid religions that you identify as "human".

A great deal of your plan is religious censure and race based laws that encourage treating humans as something not-for-elves.

[General TSAR]

Elves screwed themselves.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

It does, but your plan went beyond simple self defense against humans.
In your plan, an elf having loving relations with a human would have to exiled to "keep the peace". Basically making intimate relations with a human illegal within the elven territory.
And the Chantry would all but be forbidden from entering the land seeing as how you will not allow even missionaries to enter. By and large because you identify the Chantry being innately pro human supremacy. Ignoring that a great majority of city elves are andrastian.
And you forbid religions that you identify as "human".
A great deal of your plan is religious censure and race based laws that encourage treating humans as something not-for-elves.

The Chantry did not do a damn thing to make amends for the misery of elves had to suffer under human rule, they keep the elves that way because they use history to justify to hate elves and treating them like dogs. But you call it racism because the elves want to have a place if their own without human influence, but its OK for humans to treat elves like crap and expect elves to coexist with them as a way of "get over it" right? And the Chantry is not their religion anyways, they should have their own religion.

[Vit246]

You are essentially making problems worse. It was racism, my-race-is-better-than-yours thinking and unwillingness to accept other relations of the various races that lead to elves being oppressed in the first place.

Interesting how you omit out Orlais entirely. It being seen as little different than Tevinter and as an untrustworthy aggressive expansionist to its neighbors with a cult that liked to spread their one-true-god and talk about the barbarism and heathenism of elves and how they kidnapped human babies to sacrifice to pagan gods. And the part where Orlais did the actual physical oppressing.

[Xerrai]

Interesting how you omit out Orlais entirely. It being seen as little different than Tevinter and as an untrustworthy aggressive expansionist to its neighbors with a cult that liked to spread their one-true-god and talk about the barbarism and heathenism of elves and how they kidnapped human babies to sacrifice to pagan gods. And the part where Orlais did the actual physical oppressing.

I was actually referring to modern human society in general when I wrote that....so yeah, that includes Orlais.

[AlanC9]

If you post ideas in a public forum, they are going to be evaluated and judged. And since you believe them, you'll be judged based on their content too.

What else were you expecting to see happen?

[Dean_the_Young]

You're the one who insults me for having an opinion that doesn't suit you. You're a troll so what do you expect?

 

For you to argue your opinions with any sort of intellectual rigor, rather than changing arguments, hiding behind 'it's my opinion', and making poor and vague citations of other people's arguments (usually derived from old white guys) whenever challenged. Chances are, you'll do that here as well, in which case- I called it. Again.

 

But, on the laughably remote chance that you won't...

 

Your entire defense to the bigotry and religious persecution advocated by your plan amounts to 'it doesn't count if elves do it less.' That's not how bigotry works, even by your own arguments.

 

Even if we accept the relatively recent invention of a definition of racism which was only invented to justify special pleading for why the logical errors involved aren't condemnable if they come from 'powerless' groups, elves aren't a powerless group in your scenario. If they could build and enforce such a regime, they are the empowered and the humans within their influence are, by your definition, incapable of being racist.

 

Your proposal of a better society rests on the principles you claim to oppose- racism, discrimination, oppression, cultural eradication- while relying on the fallacy of special pleading that it isn't bigoted when you do it. You're not against religious freedom- Andrastianism just isn't a legitimate religion that qualifies! You're not advocating eugenics of miscegenation- you're just exiling anyone who would have a human baby! You're not dictating accepting cultures- you're just removing those unacceptable human cultural elements! You're not practicing racism- you're doing less than the humans! (Ignorring, of course, all the human societies who did far, far less than you wish to.)

 

Once upon a time, your attempts to deny what you blatantly propose would be called Orwellian. I just call it hypocritical. I condemn hypocrisy, especially when used in defense of racial bigotry.

[Seraphim24]

Well to be fair here racism is clearly a part of the setting of DA, I can't really be bothered to remember how much is done by whom to whoever else, but the humans on Elves is made pretty prominent in the game setting through various things (ghettos, etc)

 

It seems to be you guys are arguing about "what should be done" sort of thing... so I don't really know what's going on  here perhaps.

 

It's not the type to bear down and kill you for simply being an elf, in fact, many fantasy settings are sort of drenched in it, but you know, a spade is a spade....

[Sifr]

I'm well aware of the horrors of the Holocaust since the '40s, and the elves represent the homogenized PoC from the racism and stupidity from humans.

 

Gaider (I believe) said the Alienages were inspired by the wartime Jewish ghettos, but that's where the comparison ends. The Elves don't represent any particular ethnic groups in the real world, so trying to apply any real world examples to them is pointless.

 

Besides, it's not like racial discrimination is only happening between the Elves and Humans. Pretty much every race in Thedas we've seen have discriminated against each other (and themselves) based on matters of class, caste, religion/philosophy, nation or group.

 

How is the issues between Humans and Elves any more important than Dalish hating on City Elves, more than Qunari hating on Tal-Vashoth and Vashoth, or the Dwarves hating on Casteless or Surfacers? Or even ethereal beings, such as Spirits and Demons being in conflict?

 

At this point, the only race who are without any examples of this are the Fex, if only because we've not seen 'em.

[ModernAcademic]

There's a  reason why , elves and humans have been foes for a while.

Why do humans have tales of dalish eating babies?Probably not because Dalish have eaten many human babies but because those two races can't stand each others as far as history goes.

 

First we don't even know when those stories of "quickening" were made up .It's possible the elves that survived the fall of their empire had a whole different tale.

Second the current Dalish have lost the knowledge of the creation of the veil.And this happened thousand and thousand of years ago , enough time to create a new version that fits their current point of view  better.

 

The fact that the Dalish needed to blame another people for their own misfortune and adopt a xenophobic lifestyle is very significant. They weren't sure of the reason why Arlathan disappeared, but were quick to blame another race all the same. They made up the excuses they needed to justify their hatred of humans when in fact, humans never had anything to do with the downfall of their civilization.

 

The Dalish can't even conceive their forefathers were slavers or enslaved by their own kind.

 

This is why I don't like elves in DA. One disaster happens and it's all another race's fault? "Let's hate someone else instead of trying to figure out what was OUR responsibilty in our own misery"? It's more convenient to blame whoever is doing fine today than examine the true reasons as to why we're in this sh**hole? What kind of logic is this? 

 

And where's all that hatred coming from? The Dalish live in the middle of NOWHERE, in deep forests and other places humans are rarely seen. Why such intolerance toward other races? Whatever did anyone do to generate such a negative response? And what about Solas arrogantly belittling Varric by calling him Child of the Stone all the time? If you call someone a child, you don't respect them, because you consider them to be less than an adult in your eyes. 

 

Is Solas a model of how elves from Arlathan used to think and behave? That they believed they alone were better than every other race in Thedas and felt entitled to humiliate them and act superior? Then the elves are a racist, xenophobic race, with nothing that marks them as better or superior. There's no enlightened philosophy, no rich past to recover. Just a racist people who ultimately destroyed themselves and whose survivors carried on the same unfortunate genetic legacy of megalomania and unjustified hatred toward other peoples.

 

Just remember how the Dalish refused to help Orlais stop the second Blight, even after the empire had generously granted them the right to live in their lands...it was the elves who chose to turn their back as the darkspawn ravaged the human villages. Now they weep and complain humans hate them. From where I'm standing, humans aren't the pollution. It's the elven people, with their passive-aggressive speech hellbent on subverting the truth, their constant victimisation and their blatant racism.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

The fact that the Dalish needed to blame another people for their own misfortune and adopt a xenophobic lifestyle is very significant. They weren't sure of the reason why Arlathan disappeared, but were quick to blame another race all the same. They made up the excuses they needed to justify their hatred of humans when in fact, humans never had anything to do with the downfall of their civilization.

The Dalish can't even conceive their forefathers were slavers or enslaved by their own kind.

This is why I don't like elves in DA. One disaster happens and it's all another race's fault? "Let's hate someone else instead of trying to figure out what was OUR responsibilty in our own misery"? It's more convenient to blame whoever is doing fine today than examine the true reasons as to why we're in this sh**hole? What kind of logic is this?

And where's all that hatred coming from? The Dalish live in the middle of NOWHERE, in deep forests and other places humans are rarely seen. Why such intolerance toward other races? Whatever did anyone do to generate such a negative response? And what about Solas arrogantly belittling Varric by calling him Child of the Stone all the time? If you call someone a child, you don't respect them, because you consider them to be less than an adult in your eyes.

Is Solas a model of how elves from Arlathan used to think and behave? That they believed they alone were better than every other race in Thedas and felt entitled to humiliate them and act superior? Then the elves are a racist, xenophobic race, with nothing that marks them as better or superior. There's no enlightened philosophy, no rich past to recover. Just a racist people who ultimately destroyed themselves and whose survivors carried on the same unfortunate genetic legacy of megalomania and unjustified hatred toward other peoples.

Just remember how the Dalish refused to help Orlais stop the second Blight, even after the empire had generously granted them the right to live in their lands...it was the elves who chose to turn their back as the darkspawn ravaged the human villages. Now they weep and complain humans hate them. From where I'm standing, humans aren't the pollution. It's the elven people, with their passive-aggressive speech hellbent on subverting the truth, their constant victimisation and their blatant racism.

But look @ the Dalish elves perspective they have the trauma and painful experience based in hundreds of years of slavery under the Imperium by humans so it causes animosity towards them to refuse to coexist with humans because the evils the Imperium have done to the elves ever since the fall of Arlathan, and I understand why the elves were angry and resenting against humans because they commited brutal genocide upon them. Yes the Ancient Elves brought upon the downfall because the Evanuris obsessed with power, and Solas meant well by sealing them into the Fade by creating a Veil to save his people. But it backfired and that's when the Imperium conquered the elves and forced them into the horrors of slavery and blood sacrifices what they have suffered greatly, so it was the fault of humans who made the elves have animosity and hatred against them because of it. And it was the humans fault who created the darkspawn because of their malevolence and power, and the elves were saying to themselves "Why should we help humans and they have done horrible things to our people and why should we trust them?" Think about it.

[Seraphim24]

Sorry to say but both sides seem to be making some good points here....

[Xerrai]

The fact that the Dalish needed to blame another people for their own misfortune and adopt a xenophobic lifestyle is very significant. They weren't sure of the reason why Arlathan disappeared, but were quick to blame another race all the same. They made up the excuses they needed to justify their hatred of humans when in fact, humans never had anything to do with the downfall of their civilization.

The Dalish can't even conceive their forefathers were slavers or enslaved by their own kind.

This is why I don't like elves in DA. One disaster happens and it's all another race's fault? "Let's hate someone else instead of trying to figure out what was OUR responsibilty in our own misery"? It's more convenient to blame whoever is doing fine today than examine the true reasons as to why we're in this sh**hole? What kind of logic is this?

And where's all that hatred coming from? The Dalish live in the middle of NOWHERE, in deep forests and other places humans are rarely seen. Why such intolerance toward other races? Whatever did anyone do to generate such a negative response? And what about Solas arrogantly belittling Varric by calling him Child of the Stone all the time? If you call someone a child, you don't respect them, because you consider them to be less than an adult in your eyes.

Is Solas a model of how elves from Arlathan used to think and behave? That they believed they alone were better than every other race in Thedas and felt entitled to humiliate them and act superior? Then the elves are a racist, xenophobic race, with nothing that marks them as better or superior. There's no enlightened philosophy, no rich past to recover. Just a racist people who ultimately destroyed themselves and whose survivors carried on the same unfortunate genetic legacy of megalomania and unjustified hatred toward other peoples.

Just remember how the Dalish refused to help Orlais stop the second Blight, even after the empire had generously granted them the right to live in their lands...it was the elves who chose to turn their back as the darkspawn ravaged the human villages. Now they weep and complain humans hate them. From where I'm standing, humans aren't the pollution. It's the elven people, with their passive-aggressive speech hellbent on subverting the truth, their constant victimisation and their blatant racism.

And yet humans are just as bad.

Tevinter would rather build themselves up as topplers of a mighty empire instead of admitting that they conquered an Empire that had already fallen.
They would rather expunge Shartan from the Chant instead of acknowledging that elves were an important part of Andraste's rebellion.
Even now, Tevinter is quite content to have a slave class almost entirely made of elves.
They would bury Ameridians heritage as Inquisitor for little other reason than he was a Mage elf.

Now they have not only a culture, but active laws that make it ok to oppress elves. Humans in most modern Thedosian societies will always try to make elves (especially alienage elves) stay at the bottom of the social ladder where they shall remain in squalor and poverty in thier slums.
Where the murder of elves is glossed over, and thier oppression justified with the reason that "they are elves".

Humans are the 'pollution' just as much as elves are. With their active aggression speeches/lawmaking hell bent on twisting the truth ,the constant oppression, and blatant racism.

[vertigomez]

Well, this thread is officially terribad.

Poor OP. You knew not what was to come.

[Vit246]

The fact that the Dalish needed to blame another people for their own misfortune and adopt a xenophobic lifestyle is very significant. They weren't sure of the reason why Arlathan disappeared, but were quick to blame another race all the same. They made up the excuses they needed to justify their hatred of humans when in fact, humans never had anything to do with the downfall of their civilization.

 

The Dalish can't even conceive their forefathers were slavers or enslaved by their own kind.

 

This is why I don't like elves in DA. One disaster happens and it's all another race's fault? "Let's hate someone else instead of trying to figure out what was OUR responsibilty in our own misery"? It's more convenient to blame whoever is doing fine today than examine the true reasons as to why we're in this sh**hole? What kind of logic is this? 

 

And where's all that hatred coming from? The Dalish live in the middle of NOWHERE, in deep forests and other places humans are rarely seen. Why such intolerance toward other races? Whatever did anyone do to generate such a negative response? And what about Solas arrogantly belittling Varric by calling him Child of the Stone all the time? If you call someone a child, you don't respect them, because you consider them to be less than an adult in your eyes. 

 

Is Solas a model of how elves from Arlathan used to think and behave? That they believed they alone were better than every other race in Thedas and felt entitled to humiliate them and act superior? Then the elves are a racist, xenophobic race, with nothing that marks them as better or superior. There's no enlightened philosophy, no rich past to recover. Just a racist people who ultimately destroyed themselves and whose survivors carried on the same unfortunate genetic legacy of megalomania and unjustified hatred toward other peoples.

 

Just remember how the Dalish refused to help Orlais stop the second Blight, even after the empire had generously granted them the right to live in their lands...it was the elves who chose to turn their back as the darkspawn ravaged the human villages. Now they weep and complain humans hate them. From where I'm standing, humans aren't the pollution. It's the elven people, with their passive-aggressive speech hellbent on subverting the truth, their constant victimisation and their blatant racism.

 

F**k me, that is some impressive vitriol and some exaagerations there.

 

Humans did have some part to do with their downfall. Tevinter anyway. I don't know why this is hard to understand. Sure it may have been a remnant but they still did it. Their downfall coincided with the rise of Tevinter. Their loss of magic and immortality coincided with the arrival of mortal humans. They still conquered and enslaved them and systematically stripped them of their knowledge, history, and culture for years and years. Their ignorance of themselves was forced upon them. Their misery under human rule was so great, is it any wonder that as a coping mechanism, they needed to believe that whatever kingdom they used to have, it was preferable to the hell they endured as slaves to humans? Is it so unreasonable to think it was the humans and to be distrustful of them? Their first experience with humans?

 

What makes you think the Dalish live in "the middle of nowhere, in deep forests, where humans are rarely seen"? Humans are kinda everywhere, y'know. Elves are seen as inferior barbarians and humans have carte blanche to do whatever they want with them. Like humans who killed and raped Zathrian's children. And thus they have to keep moving around Thedas. Thats where the negative response is generated.

And I haven't even got to the Elves who are forced to live in alienages and humans can kill them or kidnap and rape their women. City Elf Origin bro?

 

Bro, do you even Thedas history? Orlais never owned the Dales and gave it to them. It was Maferath and his sons. There was no Orlais at the time. Their land was their own. Andraste was not Orlesian and she didn't found the Chantry. 

Since you mention the 2nd Blight, I'm gonna mention the 3rd Blight where Tevinter and Orlais sent no aid to the Free Marches while it was being attacked cuz they prioritized themselves first and the Grey Wardens had to step in and put the pressure. And the 4th Blight where Tevinter refused to send aid to the Free Marches and Anderfels and Orlais sent only a token force. So as you can see, elves aren't the only nations that look out for their self-interests first and standby while a mutual enemy attacks its neighbors.

EDIT: And the 2nd Blight is, like, so ancient history its not that relevant. Its not the official or unofficial reason why humans hate them or why the Dales fell. A war exploded over border tensions and religious tensions and the Orlesian winners wrote the history books on how barbarian heathen elves were no match before the superiority of humans and the light of the Maker.

 

*sigh* F**k this. I dont wanna do this anymore without backup and I wish others were still around to do this shite. I'm so f**king tired

Modifié par Vit246, 22 juin 2016 - 12:17 .