17 Antworten in diesem Thema

[XxX_DogeID_XxX]

Everytime I die in ME3 I just tell myself, Welp. RIP galaxy, Do you think anyone else who is not shepard could have stopped the reapers?

[Cz-99]

The Leviathans.

[bunch1]

Anything is possible, maybe not likely, but possible.  By the time ME3 comes about Shepard is little more then an errand boy/girl.  With the commanders contacts being the only thing that really sets them apart from the other soldiers and leaders of the galaxy.  Your combat mission could be undertaken by other spectres and if a capable diplomat showed up to help negotiate between the races they could still unite the galaxy.

 

Could any of them fight their way to the beam and get an audience with the star child?  Probably not, Shepard's actions through the years caught the attention of the reapers and star child and that is what got them the option to use the crucible. 

 

The question then becomes could organics win without the crucible hack?  Not likely, but again, anything is possible since we know that reaper dreadnoughts can be killed by conventional organic forces.  If the war is fought over hundreds of years as all previous harvest then thousands of reapers may die in the war and with each death the harvest takes longer allowing the organics to kill another until the reapers are no more.  Again, not likely, but it's impossible to predict the future and what new tech and tactics the organics will devise and who will rise to lead them.

[aoibhealfae]

Have you seen Joker at the end of ME2 if Shepard is dead. Joker will save the day.

[Xen]

Maybe, assuming that upon Shep's death everyone got over their comical plot induced stupidity and acted even halfway as competent as actual electorates, political and military leaders in our universe do in responding to crises.

 

Okay, to be fair, Shep and some of their crew (Tali, Liara) really were in the right places at the right time with the right skillsets in ME1, and the Council was only moderate to severely (as opposed to suicidally) stupid, but Sovereign and the geth's attack should have been a call to arms for the entire known galaxy to do everything to prepare above all other considerations; massive military buildup, dumping funds into studying all available Prothean tech for advantages (lets say that big beacon on Thessia that poops out an AI telling us all about the Reapers, Crucible, Catalyst etc), and in general acting like people preparing for apocalyptic war.

 

Instead, the only person in the universe with the Prothean cipher gets killed fighting random mooks, instead of such a valuable asset being protected. We then get "ah yes, Reapers" for 2 years straight, and seemingly every single Council government and population is full of complete goddamn morons for brushing off a massive attack on the capital of galactic society which kills thousands of their constituents, by a hitherto unknown, highly advanced and extremely hostile machine race as if it were a minor inconvenience. Everything only gets dumber and dumber from there.

[Livi14]

Probably not. We need Shepard's cipher to activate the beacon on Thessia (Shiala is the only other person in the Galaxy with the cipher, and she can be dead as well + the asari councilor probably wouldn't contact her)

[Monica21]

Probably not. We need Shepard's cipher to activate the beacon on Thessia (Shiala is the only other person in the Galaxy with the cipher, and she can be dead as well + the asari councilor probably wouldn't contact her)

 

I wish they would have gone into this more. There was much made in ME1 of how strong willed Shepard must have been to manage the beacons and the cipher. Liara talks about "lesser minds" not being able to handle it more than once. It makes me wonder if Shepard was ever supposed to turn out to be special somehow. Maybe not Neo special, but who knows? Because the rest of the series plays out like it's just blind luck and whoever came in second in human Spectre voting could have managed the same thing.

[bunch1]

Instead, the only person in the universe with the Prothean cipher gets killed fighting random mooks, instead of such a valuable asset being protected. We then get "ah yes, Reapers" for 2 years straight, and seemingly every single Council government and population is full of complete goddamn morons for brushing off a massive attack on the capital of galactic society which kills thousands of their constituents, by a hitherto unknown, highly advanced and extremely hostile machine race as if it were a minor inconvenience. Everything only gets dumber and dumber from there.

If you remember what we see of the battle of the citadel then you would recall that sovereign doesn't do much fighting.  The vast majority of ships lost in that battle are destroyed by the geth fleet.  Sovereign only takes out a couple of turian ships before the alliance arrives and then a dreadnought taking out 8 cruisers before it's shields fail probably doesn't seem that impressive to the council.  So the thought that an a.i. race who are incredibly smart and unrestricted in what they can build and in seclusion for 300 years building a massive and powerful dreadnought isn't that unlikely.  As for what preparations the council made to prepare for a geth invasion we know they increased restrictions on the citadel and likely stationed more ships from the member races along the relay network leading to geth space.  But none of that is really relevant to our story and so we don't see it.

[themikefest]

No.

 

After the SR1 blew up no one was doing anything to find a way to stop the reapers. No one would make any effort to stop the collectors. Cerberus might though. I don't see any of them having the leadership skills to put together a team to deal with the collectors. 

 

There would be no SR2 for the Alliance to use in ME3. It belongs to Cerberus. They would never get to Mars in time to get the plans. Cerberus would some how build the crucible themselves. They would never be able to use it since the reapers controlled them. The reapers would go on with the harvest just like previous cycles

 

Lets say someone else touched the beacon on Eden Prime, Ashley or Kaidan, I guess it would be possible, but they would never work with Cerberus to stop the collectors in ME2.

[Xen]

If you remember what we see of the battle of the citadel then you would recall that sovereign doesn't do much fighting.  The vast majority of ships lost in that battle are destroyed by the geth fleet.  Sovereign only takes out a couple of turian ships before the alliance arrives and then a dreadnought taking out 8 cruisers before it's shields fail probably doesn't seem that impressive to the council.  So the thought that an a.i. race who are incredibly smart and unrestricted in what they can build and in seclusion for 300 years building a massive and powerful dreadnought isn't that unlikely.  As for what preparations the council made to prepare for a geth invasion we know they increased restrictions on the citadel and likely stationed more ships from the member races along the relay network leading to geth space.  But none of that is really relevant to our story and so we don't see it.

Yeah, too bad the Council straight admits Sovereign is a Reaper that was trying to summon a galactic invasion of other Reapers that would have killed "billions" in the end of the damn game (assuming you save their dumb arses).
https://www.youtube....8WcNrQ#t=12m48s

However even without this they'd have to be retarded to conclude that Sovereign is just some geth ship. First off, it quite obviously doesn't match geth designs at all. The quarians who created the geth say it isn't a geth design, hell, the geth themselves will do the same (if you bring Legion to meet the Council, who brushes it off as a "trophy bot"). Then, you have testimonies from hundreds if not thousands of eyewitnesses who saw Sovereign, including an entire conversation between a Council specter (whose word they should presumably take into account) and his entire crew (the 3 person team is just gameplay mechanics) that the thing was literally giving a bond villian monologue about how the Reapers are 1) not geth and 2) plan to kill everyone every 50,000 years. 

No, what happened was is they openly acknowledged what was happening, then backtracked and covered it up (except for Anderson, who is yet another highly respected eyewitness that nobody believes for some reason). Their propaganda machine must have been superbly effective as well, because in a normal universe this political backtracking would have resulted in a massive outcry from the thousands if not hundreds of thousands of friends and families of people who died defending the Citadel from the Reaper (you know, constituencies that in a real universe tend to make demands of or change their government if it doesn't do what they want it to). 

By openly acknowledging that billions of lives were at stake and then actively attempting to cover up and stifle efforts at saving those lives, the Council governments engaged in criminal negligence on a galactic scale. They are directly responsible for the deaths of billions. Honestly, this doesn't surprise me given that previous Council actions include enacting (rachni, krogan) or participating in (quarians) no less than 3 genocide/ethnic cleansing campaigns with bodycounts in the billions, but it isn't good writing. Jokes aside, most real politicians who get anywhere in the civilized world aren't criminally self destructive and psychopathic retards who think their entire constituency dying isn't a cause for alarm.

At least the leadership of the krogan, quarians, rachni and geth openly acknowlede the existence of the threat from ME1 and all make moves to prepare their own societies for the Reapers. It's simply too bad they're all bit players in galactic politics who can't really do much about it (how plot convenient!). It's just unfortunate that killing the Council results in absolutely the same types of people filling the same positions and continuing to be obstructionist for absolutely no logically concievable reason but becuase the ME universe as of ME2, like many bad scifi plots, runs on an ill conceived Second Order Idiot Plot.

[StarcloudSWG]

As the series currently stands? No, if Shepard dies, there goes the chance of stopping the Reapers.

 

As the series *should* have gone after Mass Effect? Maybe. Mass Effect 2 *should* have been about exploring the galaxy, sorting through archeological sites, following up clues and hints to the Reapers history, prothean technology, etc, that could eventually have led to the 'beings of light' or Leviathan, or some other ancient source of knowledge about the Reapers. And that would have given the chance to defeat the Reapers or possibly just lock them out of the galaxy / keep them in hibernation / remove them as a threat.

 

In which case Mass Effect 3 would have been a very different game.

[bunch1]

Yeah, too bad the Council straight admits Sovereign is a Reaper that was trying to summon a galactic invasion of other Reapers that would have killed "billions" in the end of the damn game (assuming you save their dumb arses).
https://www.youtube....8WcNrQ#t=12m48s

It's hard to tell if the council believes you moments after the battle or if they are just expressing their thanks and support after you saved their lives.  Believe it of not politicians, and people in general, don't always mean what they say.

 

 

However even without this they'd have to be retarded to conclude that Sovereign is just some geth ship. First off, it quite obviously doesn't match geth designs at all. The quarians who created the geth say it isn't a geth design, hell, the geth themselves will do the same (if you bring Legion to meet the Council, who brushes it off as a "trophy bot"). Then, you have testimonies from hundreds if not thousands of eyewitnesses who saw Sovereign, including an entire conversation between a Council specter (whose word they should presumably take into account) and his entire crew (the 3 person team is just gameplay mechanics) that the thing was literally giving a bond villian monologue about how the Reapers are 1) not geth and 2) plan to kill everyone every 50,000 years.

The Normandy doesn't resemble an Alliance design either so your saying that the Normandy could also be a reaper ship as it is crewed by someone who clearly historically doesn't build ships like that.  No one denies seeing Sovereign, they just deny it was a sentient ship bent on wiping out all organic life.  And it had to be only his 3 man fire team considering most of his crew was still busy prepping a nuke for delivery.  Also, Shepard's head is screwy from the beacon and your companions aren't all the most respectable people.

 

 

No, what happened was is they openly acknowledged what was happening, then backtracked and covered it up (except for Anderson, who is yet another highly respected eyewitness that nobody believes for some reason). Their propaganda machine must have been superbly effective as well, because in a normal universe this political backtracking would have resulted in a massive outcry from the thousands if not hundreds of thousands of friends and families of people who died defending the Citadel from the Reaper (you know, constituencies that in a real universe tend to make demands of or change their government if it doesn't do what they want it to).

As far as public statements go we don't know if they ever said their was more to the attack then a geth assault.  What poloticans say in private and among their top agents and what they tell the public are not always the same believe it or not.  And, again, remember most of those who die in the battle are killed by geth in the space battle and ground units on the station itself, not Sovereign.

 

 

By openly acknowledging that billions of lives were at stake and then actively attempting to cover up and stifle efforts at saving those lives, the Council governments engaged in criminal negligence on a galactic scale. They are directly responsible for the deaths of billions. Honestly, this doesn't surprise me given that previous Council actions include enacting (rachni, krogan) or participating in (quarians) no less than 3 genocide/ethnic cleansing campaigns with bodycounts in the billions, but it isn't good writing. Jokes aside, most real politicians who get anywhere in the civilized world aren't criminally self destructive and psychopathic retards who think their entire constituency dying isn't a cause for alarm.

  You talk about how the council doesn't do anything to protect their people then bring up examples  of them going to extreme measures to do exactly that.  The rachni were invading council space and killing everyone on the worlds they landed on and the council couldn't stop them.  That is why they uplifted the krogan, to protect their people.  And when they pushed the rachni back and tried to negotiate with them to surrender the rachni refused forcing the council to decide between endless war and the deaths of their own people forever or wipe out these foreign genocidal aliens and they choose to protect their own people. 

 

Then of course you have the krogan who became an invading force, conquering council worlds and displacing their populations, not to mention dropping asteroids on garden worlds killing everyone and rendering the planets unable to support life.  The inability to stop them in conventional battle is what made the council use the genophage that did force the krogan to surrender.  And I will remind you that it is not a sterility virus so the krogan are not in danger of extinction whether they believe it or not.

 

As for the quarians it's hard to say how long the mourning war lasted.  The geth were already on every quarian world in massive numbers so the whole thing could have been over in a matter of days, not long enough for the council to interne.  Also, the council doesn't have an army readily available to use, only a fleet, and considering the geth were wiping out the quarians on the ground the council would have to try and mobilize the turians army and ship them off to save a race that was likely mostly dead and responsible for the problem in the first place.  Instead the council sacrificed the few quarians they could save to prepare for the geth to cross the veil and attack the rest of organic space.  The fact that the attack never came is beside the point as by then their were no quarians left to save on their worlds and trying to take them back would have cost millions and millions of soldiers their lives just to get back a planet for a few million quarians.

 

 

At least the leadership of the krogan, quarians, rachni and geth openly acknowlede the existence of the threat from ME1 and all make moves to prepare their own societies for the Reapers. It's simply too bad they're all bit players in galactic politics who can't really do much about it (how plot convenient!). It's just unfortunate that killing the Council results in absolutely the same types of people filling the same positions and continuing to be obstructionist for absolutely no logically concievable reason but becuase the ME universe as of ME2, like many bad scifi plots, runs on an ill conceived Second Order Idiot Plot.

In ME1 the krogan have no leadership, the quarians do not admit anything, only one on pilgrimage, and the rachni could well be dead so yeah, great.  Counter wise the council races do send a team to Illos to see if Vigil could tell them anything, but he's gone bad.  They have also examined Sovergien and designed the thanix cannon, huge tech boost.  The turians build 2 new dreadnoughts in a 3 year span despite only building 37 in 2000 years, likewise the volous build their very first dreadnought and give it to the turians.  Humanity builds 2 new dreadnoughts as well while the Salarians stop building dreadnoughts and instead focus on building smaller ships, and more of them, with thanix cannons on them.  Considering that no one really thought the reapers would just show up in a couple of years, because if they could why bother with the citadel relay, these preparations given another 100 years or more could well have resulted in an increased military capable of actually stopping the reapers depending on how many reapers their are, but lets not get into that conversation.  And considering the reapers may not show up for hundreds of years it would probably be a bad idea to publicly say threat doom bots were coming to kill them all, only imagine the panic and how disruptive that would be.  Not to mention all the doom cults that would likely preach suicide.

[BloodyMares]

 

Lets say someone else touched the beacon on Eden Prime, Ashley or Kaidan, I guess it would be possible, but they would never work with Cerberus to stop the collectors in ME2.

They would if you rob them of the dialogue wheel like they did with my Shepard. After Akuze he would rather destroy every Cerberus base but instead he was forced into working with them. Shepard could as well ask Alliance for resources (they deny him only because of his cooperation with Cerberus).

But the thing is, Suicide Mission wasn't important at all to the main goal of stopping the Reapers. Nobody cared about those colonists. Cerberus might be able to stop the Collectors with the same team (minus Shepard, Garrus and Tali) while the VS and the Alliance would do the important stuff like blowing up the Alpha Relay and searching the Mars Archives for the Crucible.

[correctamundo]

No, Shep is special. If they somehow made it all the way to the citadel they would not withstand the indoctrination. Game over.

[Whitering]

Yes, Garrus could have done it, he has the same strength, the willingness to see other races as allies and doesn't brook stupid behaviour.

[aoibhealfae]

Yes, Garrus could have done it, he has the same strength, the willingness to see other races as allies and doesn't brook stupid behaviour.

Both Primarch of Palaven knew Garrus personally and he does nothing to warn his people until after Shepard was incarcerated. Garrus saw nothing wrong sabotaging the genophage, would have ruined the krogan alliance for the Salarian help (although they did nothing for Turians btw), he would have left the Quarians and Geth killing each other and do what he can to save Palaven even at the cost of other races. He would have been ignorant about Cerberus attacking human colonies. On his own, he doesn't really have his own principle and like things simple because he didn't like overthinking it. He didn't care about politics and think rules and regulations was too restrictive for him to do anything... he's not Shepard. 

[aoibhealfae]

While a lot of in-game character could in theory would help greatly during the war against reapers but Shepard is the glue holding everything and everyone together. Liara wouldn't have found the Crucible plans without her connection with Shepard. Hackett wouldn't get his fleet ready. The turians would have no allies to turn to. Everyone would predictably do their own thing as reapers bulldoze each and everyone of them. Cycle continues.

[Tonymac]

I think that we would need to consider a few items.  The Cypher is a big one.  Blowing up the Alpha Relay was another such pivotal event.  No relay blown up means game over for the Galaxy, because the next step is the Citadel in the Reaper invasion - even the Prothean Empire fell from it.

 

Being personal best friends with Wrex (assuming he lives) and Garrus, helps the Turians hold.   Legion and Tali stop the Quarian/Geth War,  and Liara gets schematics for the Crucible.  All of these are all practically essential, depending on your play style.  The more forces we have, the better our chances - I see it as best to work together.  Having a personal connection with them and Hackett helped events along greatly.

 

Shepard was at the right place in the right time and became the mainstay.