302 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

You're wrong. Completely wrong. Banner Saga has an ending that puts TW3 to shame in terms of its emotional player punches. It's a crazy dark game - way darker than TW because you don't play an ubermensch. So dark that once you realize what types of "enemies" you're killing at one point it's enough to make you physically I'll. I hardly have any idea what their marketing is line - but it's one of the darkest games I've played since Dark Souls.

 

Yeah, the thing that really got me invested in Banner Saga is that you're not really a hero in the classic RPG fashion. You play a bunch of survivors. And not ""survivor" in the Tomb Raider sense where the character goes from scared girl to army-destroying badass in an hour. The whole story is about surviving all the crap the world throws at you while minimalizing losses and making difficult decisions. It makes the threats more real when you're not a superhuman that can wade through rivers of enemies and need to run sometimes.

 

The second game is even better than the first, although it does embrace the series's fantasy side a bit more.

[goishen]

Yeah, the thing that really got me invested in Banner Saga is that you're not really a hero in the classic RPG fashion. You play a bunch of survivors. And not ""survivor" in the Tomb Raider sense where the character goes from scared girl to army-destroying badass in an hour. The whole story is about surviving all the crap the world throws at you while minimalizing losses and making difficult decisions. It makes the threats more real when you're not a superhuman that can wade through rivers of enemies and need to run sometimes.

 

The second game is even better than the first, although it does embrace the series's fantasy side a bit more.

 

 

I've still gotta play that game.   Interesting note :  They are former BioWare dev's/programmers.  

[ZipZap2000]

My take from the statement is that perhaps ME:A will be more story driven and less of a shooter rpg game - to "break beyond what is the (historical) core gamer audience."

It was the ME story, not the shooting, that drew me into ME as a first-time video gamer. And it is the story, not the shooting, that will keep me interested in forking over real cash to BW. Just wondering if this is how BW may be seeking to reach out to non-traditional 'core' gamers.

And that would be good if you're more into movies or novels, if they made an interactive cinematic mode with no action, for those people at least. But what does it mean for those of us who prefer the game side as much as the story.

[Hazegurl]

Hale whispers too much in her delivery for me. It especially makes her sound extra husky (read: forward) in non-romantic dialogues when it isn't meant to. If you don't plan on romancing Jacob and talk to Vega at all, get used to hearing Femshep use her whisper voice to *not* seduce those characters. (It doesn't help that the ME series was one of those series that put you on a romance path of you talked to your companions enough instead of making your interest obvious)

I agree, that's why I couldn't get through the game playing as FShep.  The husky come on voice even for Renegade dialogue was just......meh.  Not to mention the fact that she sounded like she had an emotional stake over every petty issue.

 

Meer's Shep was a total deadpan snarker, sadly a lost art.  He was made for a Renegade play through IMO. And his comedic timing was always on point.  He toned it down in ME2 and 3 so I always headcanon as Shepard. maturing.

[malloc]

Those RPG Mechanics tho lol

 

haven't heard anything about them.

[goishen]

And that would be good if you're more into movies or novels, if they made an interactive cinematic mode with no action, for those people at least. But what does it mean for those of us who prefer the game side as much as the story.

 

 

I started playing on the realization that I had nothing in my library that I could play at the time.  I stayed because of the shooting.  I cried because of the writing.

[Khrystyn]

My take from the statement is that perhaps ME:A will be more story driven and less of a shooter rpg game - to "break beyond what is the (historical) core gamer audience."

 

And that would be good if you're more into movies or novels, if they made an interactive cinematic mode with no action, for those people at least. But what does it mean for those of us who prefer the game side as much as the story.

 

Exactly.

 

Let's hope BW's presentation at E3 (in a few weeks) will offer substantial comments that will significantly reduce the nervousness that so many have about ME shifting to the Andromeda galaxy. I think that no matter what direction BW takes ME, there will be some real discontent among the fervent hoi polloi. But I don't see the shooting side of the game going away. Perhaps they will be expanding more non-combat alternatives in-game.

 

My hope is that shooting play will be made more interesting, such as including covert paths one can take to reach objectives for those who want to do less shooting to resolve the assignments and missions. Adding covert 'avenues' would be a great way to make use of (to fill in) the expanded areas BW says it is creating for the game.

 

I have often heard that one way to curse someone is to tell them: 'May you live during 'interesting' (unstable) times." For those of us that care about the direction of ME's future, these are certainly 'unstable' times.

[Seraphim24]

Yeah, the thing that really got me invested in Banner Saga is that you're not really a hero in the classic RPG fashion. You play a bunch of survivors. And not ""survivor" in the Tomb Raider sense where the character goes from scared girl to army-destroying badass in an hour. The whole story is about surviving all the crap the world throws at you while minimalizing losses and making difficult decisions. It makes the threats more real when you're not a superhuman that can wade through rivers of enemies and need to run sometimes.

 

The second game is even better than the first, although it does embrace the series's fantasy side a bit more.

 

That's really only one Tomb Raider that's that way you know. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

That's really only one Tomb Raider that's that way you know. 

 

Well sorry for using it as an example then.

[In Exile]

That...sounds phenomenal. 

 

There's no way to do it justice without spoiling it. Go out and buy it. 

 

Unfortunately, if someone was talentless and terrible enough as a human being, I'd bet they could make that happen. 

 

At any rate, simply because something has dark or serious subject matter does not mean it's entitled to automatic respect and admiration, or prevent it from being asburd or whatever. It's very possible that a movie on the Holocaust (not any I've seen, though) could have blanket moments of cheesiness however awful that might be, likely unintended, but possible. 

 

"You can't criticize this movie, it's about the Holocaust!" Why? What if it's planted with subliminal messages designed to reinforce anti-semitism? It's a crazy example but you can imagine them.... and others. 

 

But we're just talking about a dorky derivative strategy game that nonetheless is entitled to some respect and interest, whilst understanding that this one trailer I've seen which shows basically nothing about the game yeah, I daresay it looked a little cheesy. 

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I told you - as someone who actually played the game - that your initial impression is wrong. I specifically addressed your "cheesy" comment by pointing out it's as far as possible from cheesy as a game can get. Dark subject matter isn't necessarily good - but it's not cheesy. 

[In Exile]

Yeah, the thing that really got me invested in Banner Saga is that you're not really a hero in the classic RPG fashion. You play a bunch of survivors. And not ""survivor" in the Tomb Raider sense where the character goes from scared girl to army-destroying badass in an hour. The whole story is about surviving all the crap the world throws at you while minimalizing losses and making difficult decisions. It makes the threats more real when you're not a superhuman that can wade through rivers of enemies and need to run sometimes.

 

The second game is even better than the first, although it does embrace the series's fantasy side a bit more.

 

I think Allette can grow into a conventional hero in a way that Rook doesn't in the second game, to be fair. On the other hand,

Spoiler

Bolverk

is basically a villain protagonist, which is great stuff. Plus:

 

Spoiler

Realizing that the Dredge are refugees, and not just refugees, but that you're massacring their women and children, who are so desperate for food they're fighting and raiding human towns, is downright nauseating when it comes together. On the one hand, Bellower is a genocidal monster. But at the same time, it's so clear he's basically the Dredge's savior - the one that held them together as they tried to run from the obviously failed plot to revive/re-create the gods

[Seraphim24]

There's no way to do it justice without spoiling it. Go out and buy it. 

 

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I told you - as someone who actually played the game - that your initial impression is wrong. I specifically addressed your "cheesy" comment by pointing out it's as far as possible from cheesy as a game can get. Dark subject matter isn't necessarily good - but it's not cheesy. 

 

And I specifically addressed your point it's completely possible for "dark subject matter" to be handled in a cheesy manner, specifically when it's just generically striving to be edgy and/or dark, whether that applies to Banner SAga I really can't say. 

[Addictress]

And that would be good if you're more into movies or novels, if they made an interactive cinematic mode with no action, for those people at least. But what does it mean for those of us who prefer the game side as much as the story.

PLEEEAAASSSEE when are people going to stop banging on the people who decry the deterioration of story and cinematics in Inquisition, saying they're n00bs looking for movies?

Great gameplay as well as story and cinematics are required - we need the marriage of the two.

We're talking about grilled cheese sandwiches. Good bread. Good cheese.

We're not just talking about cheese.

We're not just talking about bread.

Grilled cheese sandwiches.

A thing can have subcomponents.

[Seraphim24]

PLEEEAAASSSEE when are people going to stop banging on the people who decry the deterioration of story and cinematics in Inquisition, saying they're n00bs looking for movies?

Great gameplay as well as story and cinematics are required - we need the marriage of the two.

We're talking about grilled cheese sandwiches. Good bread. Good cheese.

We're not just talking about cheese.

We're not just talking about bread.

Grilled cheese sandwiches.

A thing can have subcomponents.

 

I shall provide Exhibits

 

[ZipZap2000]

PLEEEAAASSSEE when are people going to stop banging on the people who decry the deterioration of story and cinematics in Inquisition, saying they're n00bs looking for movies?

Great gameplay as well as story and cinematics are required - we need the marriage of the two.

We're talking about grilled cheese sandwiches. Good bread. Good cheese.

We're not just talking about cheese.

We're not just talking about bread.

Grilled cheese sandwiches.

A thing can have subcomponents.

 

I don't think I actually said any of things you said I did. And anyone familiar with my posts on DAI would know that's not my opinion.

[HSomCokeSniper]

It's interesting. When Rockstar and CD Projekt say their game is NOT for everyone, the result is pretty much universally acclaimed hit.

When publishers say they want to deliver a game for everyone the result is watered down ****.

[Sylvius the Mad]

so forming roles according to lore-established racial mythologies limits design for you. How else do you define roles? None of the choices in the game particularly pertained to race.

The danger is that the developers will make assumptions about motivations of objectives based on those roles. But if they have to accommodate multiple roles, they won't do that.

What is the Warden's primary objective in DAO? Is it killing the archdemon? I don't think I ever played a Warden were killing the archdemon was the primary objective. There was self-aggrandizement, curing the taint, pleasing the Maker, acting as a positive example for elven youth, avenging my brother, and those are just the ones that immediately spring to mind.

The alternative risks something like Fallout 4 where the protagonist keeps talking about finding her child.

Immersion is when interactive content and cut scenes, not simply reading codices, make you feel like you're inside the world. You feel the forces of the world in the game around you. You are sucked into the game, mentally and emotionally.

Too many cut scenes are bad, but exposition and context are critical at first, to establish the atmosphere which inform later decisions and also give weight to decisions, give meaning to....basically anything happening.

I would say that immersion is when you inhabit your character and see the world from his perspective, without taking your own point of view into account.

My character will always feel like part of the world, because that's the only world he knows. And he'll be emotionally engaged in the world as long as he cares about it.

But if my character isn't mine, and instead is an NPC, I won't get to see the world from his perspective, and thus I won't experience the extent to which he cares about it.

This is what happened in Mass Effect. Shepard was no more than another NPC, and I didn't care about his fate or the fate of the universe in which he lived.

[ExoGeniVI]

I shall provide Exhibits

 

I shall provide more!

http://tse3.mm.bing....4792o0&pid=15.1

[azarhal]

It's interesting. When Rockstar and CD Projekt say their game is NOT for everyone, the result is pretty much universally acclaimed hit.

When publishers say they want to deliver a game for everyone the result is watered down ****.

 

The Witcher 3 is watered down for the mass too, it's just that the majority doesn't give a damn that they moved from a DAO-style game (the Witcher 1) to an even more simplified consolized Skyrim with Assassin's Creed elements in the span of three games because the majority didn't play the first game in the series.

 

The same thing happened with The Elder Scrolls. Oblivion and Skyrim sold so much more than the previous entries that you rarely see anyone complaining about the watering down.

[AlanC9]

And I specifically addressed your point it's completely possible for "dark subject matter" to be handled in a cheesy manner, specifically when it's just generically striving to be edgy and/or dark, whether that applies to Banner SAga I really can't say.

So your only actual point was that the trailer made it look like the game might have been cheesy?

[SolNebula]

I hope that in the process of "breaking beyond" the game core audience they won't end up breaking the game altogether.

 

I was taught a very simple lesson, try to please everyone and none will be satisfied, focus on someone and at least you will succeed in making someone happy.

Despite what people might think CDPR and Rockstar aren't catering their games to everyone they have a specific target in their mind and follow what they think (in terms of game design) will make that specific target happy regardless of the criticism. The result is that they have a very zealous fanbase.

 

EA instead is trying to please everyone with the result being most of the people are either mildly satisfied or mildly dissatisfied.

 

That's my opinion of course.

[Iakus]

Those RPG Mechanics tho lol

 

haven't heard anything about them.

And I doubt we will.

[slimgrin]

Of course they'll talk RPG mechanics when the time comes. They haven't even had a first gameplay trailer yet. 

[Cyonan]

I hope that in the process of "breaking beyond" the game core audience they won't end up breaking the game altogether.

 

I was taught a very simple lesson, try to please everyone and none will be satisfied, focus on someone and at least you will succeed in making someone happy.

Despite what people might think CDPR and Rockstar aren't catering their games to everyone they have a specific target in their mind and follow what they think (in terms of game design) will make that specific target happy regardless of the criticism. The result is that they have a very zealous fanbase.

 

EA instead is trying to please everyone with the result being most of the people are either mildly satisfied or mildly dissatisfied.

 

That's my opinion of course.

 

I think the problem EA has isn't that they're trying to appeal to a lot of people. Both Rockstar and CDPR made games that do that, regardless of what their PR departments might have said about "not being for everybody". GTA V and TW3 are both games that appeal to a wide audience and veterans of the series alike and there are design decisions specifically made to do that.

 

EA's problem seems to be that many decisions are decided by people higher up the chain who don't understand what appeals to the wide audience of a certain market. They think that just because Call of Duty or Gears of War was popular if they copy it, then they'll get more sales. We have writers from BioWare coming out about Mass Effect saying their original design was overwritten because somebody high up basically "thought their idea was cooler".

 

My guess is the people at Rockstar and CDPR who have that power actually understand gaming culture a lot better and what each genre's market actually wants out of a game. Either that or they know to let their developers, writers, and artists do their thing.

 

That's what gets you the mass appeal and makes one of the best selling games of all time like Rockstar did. Nobody just checking boxes on a list ever made a game that can move that many copies. Not even Call of Duty was doing that when Modern Warfare first came out(they just started repeating the same process over and over again).

[Seraphim24]

So your only actual point was that the trailer made it look like the game might have been cheesy?

 

Um I think that was kind of the main one yeah, I don't really know why that was getting all weird at any rate. That and that was the basis for saying I wasn't surprised if Banner Saga didn't outsell TW3, but like I don't think we should really revisit all that lol.