302 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

I think the problem EA has isn't that they're trying to appeal to a lot of people. Both Rockstar and CDPR made games that do that, regardless of what their PR departments might have said about "not being for everybody". GTA V and TW3 are both games that appeal to a wide audience and veterans of the series alike and there are design decisions specifically made to do that.

 

EA's problem seems to be that many decisions are decided by people higher up the chain who don't understand what appeals to the wide audience of a certain market. They think that just because Call of Duty or Gears of War was popular if they copy it, then they'll get more sales. We have writers from BioWare coming out about Mass Effect saying their original design was overwritten because somebody high up basically "thought their idea was cooler".

 

My guess is the people at Rockstar and CDPR who have that power actually understand gaming culture a lot better and what each genre's market actually wants out of a game. Either that or they know to let their developers, writers, and artists do their thing.

 

That's what gets you the mass appeal and makes one of the best selling games of all time like Rockstar did. Nobody just checking boxes on a list ever made a game that can move that many copies. Not even Call of Duty was doing that when Modern Warfare first came out(they just started repeating the same process over and over again).

 

I think EA's problem is to be honest they got Bioware but they were expecting Bethesda or Everquest like numbers or sales or something for all their games. 

 

Blizzard got lucky and capitalized on some of the hardcore CRPG EQ market first with WoW, whereas by the time SWTOR came out that ship had sailed to some degree, and not only that they were fixated on WoW as the model of a successful MMO and not the other games that actually propelled the genre. 

 

Bethesda of course already had that to a certain degree with their own homegrown series TES Arena/Daggerfall and even Morrowind as well to a degree. 

 

So all those other companies were caching in on the major open world hardcore CRPG game.

 

Meanwhile games like Minecraft just watered down the entire concept and turned it into a big sort of joke and lots of more casual gamers flocked to that. So the hardcore gamers were satisfied with Bethesda and maybe Blizzard to a degree (or even Verant), whereas casual gamers went to phones and Minecraft.

 

Bioware gets caught in the middle and kinda burned slightly it seems to me. The one thing you get playing Bioware games is proving to people you aren't a fake hardcore gamer or a casual gamer because that's the only way you would know about them. 

 

But it seems like they made those adjustments by focusing everything around DA and ME which best represented Bioware's strongpoints anyway even though SWTOR was a more interesting game you can't expect Bioware's player-base to really want that style of game and frankly some of the open-world elements of that game were appalling to me in construction. 

 

Though then you see this and I think they are still thinking they are going to get casual gamers or something to play a semi-hardcore series like ME is just silly IMHO. 

[Cyonan]

I think EA's problem is to be honest they got Bioware but they were expecting Bethesda or Everquest like numbers or sales or something for all their games. 

 

Blizzard got lucky and capitalized on some of the hardcore CRPG EQ market first with WoW, whereas by the time SWTOR came out that ship had sailed to some degree, and not only that they were fixated on WoW as the model of a successful MMO and not the other games that actually propelled the genre. 

 

Bethesda of course already had that to a certain degree with their own homegrown series TES Arena/Daggerfall and even Morrowind as well to a degree. 

 

So all those other companies were caching in on the major open world hardcore CRPG game.

 

Meanwhile games like Minecraft just watered down the entire concept and turned it into a big sort of joke and lots of more casual gamers flocked to that. So the hardcore gamers were satisfied with Bethesda and maybe Blizzard to a degree (or even Verant), whereas casual gamers went to phones and Minecraft.

 

Bioware gets caught in the middle and kinda burned slightly it seems to me. The one thing you get playing Bioware games is proving to people you aren't a fake hardcore gamer or a casual gamer because that's the only way you would know about them. 

 

But it seems like they made those adjustments by focusing everything around DA and ME which best represented Bioware's strongpoints anyway even though SWTOR was a more interesting game you can't expect Bioware's player-base to really want that style of game and frankly some of the open-world elements of that game were appalling to me in construction. 

 

Though then you see this and I think they are still thinking they are going to get casual gamers or something to play a semi-hardcore series like ME is just silly IMHO. 

 

Well I think that comes down to the higher ups making those choices not really understanding gaming. I mean, you aren't going to get Skyrim like sales by simply trying to be Skyrim. You can look at the game to see what it did well and see if maybe it'll work for you game, but your game still needs its own identity.

 

With SWtoR, it was one of the bigger failures of the MMO market because it was trying to hard to be WoW. Now that it's carved itself out a niche it's doing okay. Not the numbers that they wanted, but still enough that it's producing more content.

 

With BioWare what I think I want to see is them really advancing what they do best. Get me more invested in my squadmates by giving me more ways than ever to interact with them. Give me more ways to roleplay my character with a variety of backgrounds. Give me an interesting story that I can influence and where my choices actually do matter in the end.

 

I think you can get a lot of people playing a game like Mass Effect, but I don't think you're going to do that by just trying to act like some other game that's popular.

[goishen]

I shall provide Exhibits

 

 

 

Great now I want a grilled cheese sandwich.  

 

*sigh*  

[Seraphim24]

Well I think that comes down to the higher ups making those choices not really understanding gaming. I mean, you aren't going to get Skyrim like sales by simply trying to be Skyrim. You can look at the game to see what it did well and see if maybe it'll work for you game, but your game still needs its own identity.

 

With SWtoR, it was one of the bigger failures of the MMO market because it was trying to hard to be WoW. Now that it's carved itself out a niche it's doing okay. Not the numbers that they wanted, but still enough that it's producing more content.

 

With BioWare what I think I want to see is them really advancing what they do best. Get me more invested in my squadmates by giving me more ways than ever to interact with them. Give me more ways to roleplay my character with a variety of backgrounds. Give me an interesting story that I can influence and where my choices actually do matter in the end.

 

I think you can get a lot of people playing a game like Mass Effect, but I don't think you're going to do that by just trying to act like some other game that's popular.

 

Right.

 

Anyway, I consider myself a relatively hardcore gamer and yet I couldn't tell you the precise differences between Ultima II and III, and yet if you want to understand open world CRPGs that's kind of where you have to go....

 

*Sighs* Still wish Ultima Online 2 (the 3D Ultima had never been cancelled)

 

Spoiler

 

Motion capture! Grainy rock music! Yeah baby!

 

But right as far as Bioware goes I think to sell and get interest they just need to kind of go all out, you know just full on super gay/bisexual characters that are kind of completely uninhibited and such. Save the world, jokes in conversation, save the world, etc, etc, all that jazz.

[LinksOcarina]

The Witcher 3 is watered down for the mass too, it's just that the majority doesn't give a damn that they moved from a DAO-style game (the Witcher 1) to an even more simplified consolized Skyrim with Assassin's Creed elements in the span of three games because the majority didn't play the first game in the series.

 

The same thing happened with The Elder Scrolls. Oblivion and Skyrim sold so much more than the previous entries that you rarely see anyone complaining about the watering down.

 

To be fair, they shouldn't play the first game in the series, it's kind of crap as a game.

 

And honestly, I hate to say this, but people don't complain about those studios as much because it's not EA. Although Bethesda got some heat for Fallout 4.

[Han Shot First]

Most people didn't care about the changes to the Witcher series, because those changes were improvements. The first game sucked.

[Addictress]

Bioware always had a special attention to high drama and character other games don't. Witcher 3's dialogue writing and irony and self-awareness are so beyond sophisticated and spot-on, but at the end of the day, I didn't get those "theatrical shivers" I did when Solas turns around in front of the eluvian and the dread wolf horns punch the beat.

What is that? What do you call it? Because that - that epic drama feel right there is Bioware's sole defining advantage which it needs to hold onto and never let go. If people drown that out, if they lose sight of whatever that theatricality is, they will die asap.

[LinksOcarina]

Bioware always had a special attention to high drama and character other games don't. Witcher 3's dialogue writing and irony and self-awareness are so beyond sophisticated and spot-on, but at the end of the day, I didn't get those "theatrical shivers" I did when Solas turns around in front of the eluvian and the dread wolf horns punch the beat.

What is that? What do you call it? Because that - that epic drama feel right there is Bioware's sole defining advantage which it needs to hold onto and never let go. If people drown that out, if they lose sight of whatever that theatricality is, they will die asap.

 

It took CD Projekt Red 3 games to get to that point of sophisticated writing, credit to them for it there.

 

I think the word you are looking for is "melodramatic." The BioWare games go for drama and tension, and melodrama has a double meaning; first is it originally meant musical underpinnings to an event to give it weight or emotion. The second is dramatic work with larger than life characters and events that also appeal to your heartstrings.

 

People frown on melodrama because it gets overplayed and is often poorly acted, but when it is firing on all cylinders its a good feeling to have. 

[Addictress]

It took CD Projekt Red 3 games to get to that point of sophisticated writing, credit to them for it there.

I think the word you are looking for is "melodramatic." The BioWare games go for drama and tension, and melodrama has a double meaning; first is it originally meant musical underpinnings to an event to give it weight or emotion. The second is dramatic work with larger than life characters and events that also appeal to your heartstrings.

People frown on melodrama because it gets overplayed and is often poorly acted, but when it is firing on all cylinders its a good feeling to have.

Oh :/ well call me a big ol' sap. I like the melodrama.....when, you know, done correctly.

Which it wasn't

done correctly

in DA:I main game.

Only in trespasser.

[straykat]

Oh :/ well call me a big ol' sap. I like the melodrama.....when, you know, done correctly.

Which it wasn't

done correctly

in DA:I main game.

Only in trespasser.

 

That doesn't help me though, does it? I still haven't played that dlc..

 

It's kind of weird to praise the game for it's final dlc moments.

[Addictress]

That doesn't help me though, does it? I still haven't played that dlc..

It's kind of weird to praise the game for it's final dlc moments.

When are you getting it?

It's all spoiled for you by now. The melodrama magic might not even work on you anymore. ;___;

[straykat]

When are you getting it?

It's all spoiled for you by now. The melodrama magic might not even work on you anymore. ;___;

 

I got a new computer actually.. I'll probably get around to playing again. Not now though.

[Addictress]

Thumb down.

Do you play me3 Multiplayer straykat?

[LinksOcarina]

Oh :/ well call me a big ol' sap. I like the melodrama.....when, you know, done correctly.

Which it wasn't

done correctly

in DA:I main game.

Only in trespasser.

 

Eh, your glass is half empty I guess.

 

I thought it was quite good in the base game. 

[straykat]

Thumb down.

Do you play me3 Multiplayer straykat?

 

Not anymore.. and not much before.

[Addictress]

Not anymore.. and not much before.

Why? It is the most fun I have ever known.

[straykat]

Why? It is the most fun I have ever known.

 

I hate people.

 

No really, I just played enough to get ems and promote some builds.

[SKAR]

I hate people.

No really, I just played enough to get ems and promote some builds.

d@mn.

[straykat]

Seriously though, I'm just on the introverted side, I guess. It kind of worries me how much multiplayer emphasis is creeping into even RPGs now. It's not really for me.

[Han Shot First]

Seriously though, I'm just on the introverted side, I guess. It kind of worries me how much multiplayer emphasis is creeping into even RPGs now. It's not really for me.

That trend is never going to reverse, because multiplayer allows for micro transactions and a steady stream of income.

[In Exile]

Seriously though, I'm just on the introverted side, I guess. It kind of worries me how much multiplayer emphasis is creeping into even RPGs now. It's not really for me.

 

It's not about introversion - I'm an extroverted person, but not when it comes to gaming, because to me the whole point is a break from social interaction. 

 

It took CD Projekt Red 3 games to get to that point of sophisticated writing, credit to them for it there.

 

I think the word you are looking for is "melodramatic." The BioWare games go for drama and tension, and melodrama has a double meaning; first is it originally meant musical underpinnings to an event to give it weight or emotion. The second is dramatic work with larger than life characters and events that also appeal to your heartstrings.

 

People frown on melodrama because it gets overplayed and is often poorly acted, but when it is firing on all cylinders its a good feeling to have. 

 

Not everyone will agree that CDPR improved on TW2's writing. TW3 has some great quests - but some hokey characters (with weird and nonsensical departures from both their TW2 portrayal and the books) and an underwhelming, kind of random, and abrupt main plot. TW3 is ME2 structurally - great vignettes and characters (but with loads more content and better fleshed out characters, partly since they don't have to be companions). 

 

But I'm of the view TW2 > TW3 > TW1 overall in writing. 

[LinksOcarina]

It's not about introversion - I'm an extroverted person, but not when it comes to gaming, because to me the whole point is a break from social interaction. 

 

 

Not everyone will agree that CDPR improved on TW2's writing. TW3 has some great quests - but some hokey characters (with weird and nonsensical departures from both their TW2 portrayal and the books) and an underwhelming, kind of random, and abrupt main plot. TW3 is ME2 structurally - great vignettes and characters (but with loads more content and better fleshed out characters, partly since they don't have to be companions). 

 

But I'm of the view TW2 > TW3 > TW1 overall in writing. 

 

Honestly, Witcher 3 book-end to book-end is probably the most solid game of the bunch, which in of itself does help its case (although id argue fleshed out characters is a bit of a misnomer when several of them are mary-sues in their abilities it seems)

 

 My problem with the writing was always the line by CDPR where they said "we make mature, adult games," Witcher 3 is the first to feel like a mature, adult game in that sense- Witcher 1 was dark for the sake of dark, definitly not mature in the sense that they wanted it. Witcher 2 was a mish-mash of the two, some really good moments but mired in that mandate of "were an adult game, I swear!" sort of mentality, like a teenager pretending to be mature. 

 

It's just how I see it, I guess, but as I said, good on CDPR for getting there finally, even though I have little to no interest in the Witcher series I can acknowledge what they made was quite good.

 

And you are right about the presentation of Witcher 3, it is kind of like Mass Effect 2 in structure due to the cinematics.

[von uber]

What is this obsession with 'hardcore' and 'casual' gamers?

Half the time it just feels like people want to belong to a little exclusive club where they can feel a nice sense of smug superiority.

It's also like this gamergate shite which seems to boil down to we don't want smelly girls in our club - but with extra nastiness.

Maybe I'm just too old to understand all of this now - i just play what want too, regardless.

[Sekrev]

Bioware: We're gonna need more budget to preserve quality

 

EA: Nah

 

Bioware:

 

 

 

EA: ....

 

Bioware: 

 

EA: We'll see what we can do...

[dreamgazer]

I mean, they already did this with ME1 as a third-person cover shooter. Similar griping about audiences went on then when they didn't use KOTOR's turn-based combat.

The cycle continues.