41 ответов в этой теме

[XxX_DogeID_XxX]

So I just got around to my first playthrough of ME3 with kaiden alive, And kaiden is a MAJOR... Like srsly what the hell did he do to deserve it, I stopped a rogue spectre and alone took out his geth armies, Probably stopped a collector invasion of earth and hundreds of human colonies while they did nothing/prevented an early reaper invasion/saved a couple dozen colonies from being destroyed by batarian/blood pack ETC, And well now I am the only hope to ever stopping galactic extiction... And what did he do?! Sat and watch as the collectors kidnapped the entire colony of horzion.

 

Chain of command pls

[StarcloudSWG]

Kaiden probably deserves at least one increase in grade for being, you know, part of the crew that dropped Saren. That and the "hero halo" that was around Shepard for a brief period of time before the great writer retcon dismantled all the work done to establish the story in Mass Effect.

 

The *next* two jumps in grade are not explained on screen. This is very likely because the Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 writing teams were directed by people who didn't give a damn about world building and favored action shooty drama over anything like a consistent world that obeys rules and has a history where consequences follow actions.

[correctamundo]

Kaiden is O4 and Shepard is O5 so Shep outranks Kaiden.

[aoibhealfae]

From the Codex;

 

in ascending order of responsibility, the ranks of the Alliance are:

 

ENLISTED

 

Serviceman 3rd Class/Private 2nd Class

Serviceman 2nd Class/Private 1st Class

Serviceman 1st Class/Corporal

 

NCOs

 

Service Chief

Gunnery Chief

Operations Chief

 

OFFICERS

 

2nd Lieutenant

1st Lieutenant

Staff Lieutenant

Lieutenant Commander

Staff Commander

Captain/Major

Rear Admiral/General

Admiral

Fleet Admiral

 

Its not perfect. I think there's a lot of military-experienced gamers questioning this but Alliance isn't US military and its a military fiction written by a Star Wars writer and isn't intended to be accurate. 

 

----

(Btw, Dr Chakwas is a Major too.)

 

In ME1, under Captain Anderson, Lieutenant Commander Shepard is the XO of SSV Normandy. Since nobody refer Shepard as a Lieutenant Commander, so I just assume Shepard was just recently promoted as a Staff Commander once s/he became an XO. But soon after, Shepard gain a Spectre status and effectively remove Shepard from the Alliance military command and place him/her as an agent to the Citadel Council and in a position to be neutral (so you can be either Pro-Humanity or Pro-Alien). If Anderson had step down and given Normandy to Shepard before the Council promotion, Shepard could have become a Captain instead.

 

Kaidan was a Staff Lieutenant in ME1 and is a Staff Commander (same rank as Shepard) in ME2 and later was given the command of the Special Operations Biotics Division. Why wouldn't he be promoted and a rank higher than Shepard by ME3? He is an experienced military officer who have long history and commendations as a special operative even before being assigned to the Normandy. By ME2, you found him on Horizon and he was working for the council, which meant he is a Spectre candidate who was investigating a possible rogue Spectre in the Terminus system. Sounds familiar? He would have become a Spectre like Shepard in ME1 if he didn't get the evidence that the Collectors was involved in the disappearance and it wasn't Shepard and Cerberus that kidnapped them.

 

However, as a Spectre, since he isn't within Alliance military anymore, he is an equal to Shepard even if he is higher rank in the military. He choose to be assigned to the Normandy which is under Shepard's command. But unlike everyone else, Kaidan didn't assume any ship duties but he's more like Miranda in ME2, busy with paperwork for the Alliance and the council and commanding his Spec Ops from a distance.

 

Also, Shepard was reinstated into Alliance systems and given the command of part of Alliance fleets and was assigned to gather resources for the Crucible Project, foreign diplomatic efforts, colonial evacuations and the operation to retake Earth. Essentially, ME3's Shepard outrank everyone except for Hackett and Anderson. 
 

What was more nonsensical was Ashley's jump from being Operations Chief to Lieutenant Commander in six months of "officer's training". The only way I could reason this was the military promoted her (excessively) as an apology to her father and grandfather. However, her inexperience really show especially with Udina. 

[correctamundo]

Thanks. Wonder why they went with that officers ranking list when Commander outranks Major more or less all over the world. Canada got the british commodore that is above captain as well. Captain is usually equivalnt to colonel. If I had to guess som intern made a mistake ;-)

 

Anyway I think I will continue to blissfully ignore that codex in my headcanon.

[Prince Enigmatic]

 

From the Codex;

 

in ascending order of responsibility, the ranks of the Alliance are:

 

ENLISTED

 

Serviceman 3rd Class/Private 2nd Class

Serviceman 2nd Class/Private 1st Class

Serviceman 1st Class/Corporal

 

NCOs

 

Service Chief

Gunnery Chief

Operations Chief

 

OFFICERS

 

2nd Lieutenant

1st Lieutenant

Staff Lieutenant

Lieutenant Commander

Staff Commander

Captain/Major

Rear Admiral/General

Admiral

Fleet Admiral

 

Its not perfect. I think there's a lot of military-experienced gamers questioning this but Alliance isn't US military and its a military fiction written by a Star Wars writer and isn't intended to be accurate. 

 

----

(Btw, Dr Chakwas is a Major too.)

 

In ME1, under Captain Anderson, Lieutenant Commander Shepard is the XO of SSV Normandy. Since nobody refer Shepard as a Lieutenant Commander, so I just assume Shepard was just recently promoted as a Staff Commander once s/he became an XO. But soon after, Shepard gain a Spectre status and effectively remove Shepard from the Alliance military command and place him/her as an agent to the Citadel Council and in a position to be neutral (so you can be either Pro-Humanity or Pro-Alien). If Anderson had step down and given Normandy to Shepard before the Council promotion, Shepard could have become a Captain instead.

 

Kaidan was a Staff Lieutenant in ME1 and is a Staff Commander (same rank as Shepard) in ME2 and later was given the command of the Special Operations Biotics Division. Why wouldn't he be promoted and a rank higher than Shepard by ME3? He is an experienced military officer who have long history and commendations as a special operative even before being assigned to the Normandy. By ME2, you found him on Horizon and he was working for the council, which meant he is a Spectre candidate who was investigating a possible rogue Spectre in the Terminus system. Sounds familiar? He would have become a Spectre like Shepard in ME1 if he didn't get the evidence that the Collectors was involved in the disappearance and it wasn't Shepard and Cerberus that kidnapped them.

 

However, as a Spectre, since he isn't within Alliance military anymore, he is an equal to Shepard even if he is higher rank in the military. He choose to be assigned to the Normandy which is under Shepard's command. But unlike everyone else, Kaidan didn't assume any ship duties but he's more like Miranda in ME2, busy with paperwork for the Alliance and the council and commanding his Spec Ops from a distance.

 

Also, Shepard was reinstated into Alliance systems and given the command of part of Alliance fleets and was assigned to gather resources for the Crucible Project, foreign diplomatic efforts, colonial evacuations and the operation to retake Earth. Essentially, ME3's Shepard outrank everyone except for Hackett and Anderson. 
 

What was more nonsensical was Ashley's jump from being Operations Chief to Lieutenant Commander in six months of "officer's training". The only way I could reason this was the military promoted her (excessively) as an apology to her father and grandfather. However, her inexperience really show especially with Udina. 

 

 

I always sort of assumed that for Shepard's that (rightfully!!!) allow Kaidan back onto the Normandy post-Citadel Cerberus coup, Kaidan was the Executive Officer? Could be wrong there. 

 

So much double standards with this, with so many people critical of Kaidan's promotions and lambasting it for making no sense and Kaidan not deserving it, yet there is nocriticisms of the exact same promotions happening to Ashley! And you are right, her promotions were highly more nonsensical compared to Kaidan. Kaidan for one I felt proved a better Spectre candidate as seen on the Citadel, when compared to Ashley, she seems to trust Udina more than Kaidan did. Compare that to an Ashley who hated Udina's guts in ME1 and I land upon just another reason for disliking Ash's character.

[themikefest]

 However, her inexperience really show especially with Udina.

What do you mean by that? Wouldn't that apply to Kaidan as well since the scene can play out the same?

 

The ranking in the Alliance is lame, but its Biowares Alliance. So they can do whatever with it.

[aoibhealfae]

What do you mean by that? Wouldn't that apply to Kaidan as well since the scene can play out the same?

 

The ranking in the Alliance is lame, but its Biowares Alliance. So they can do whatever with it.

 

Although, the scenes carry the same sentiment but the delivery are different. Udina intended to use them both as a human shield but he prefer her over Kaidan and especially excited about her psych profile. Udina's betrayal took a heavier toll on her and she was the only one who became visibly rattled if she pulled the trigger on him (which is odd for a supposedly Renegade character) while Kaidan merely question his personal integrity as a Spectre who supposed to protect the council instead of killing one of them but relatively happier either way. Then again, I have no regrets leaving her on Virmire especially if she was this miserable being alive and frankly, I didn't feel at all concerned about pulling the renegade interrupt on her. She have everything she wanted and its still wasn't enough. Everyone else suffer survivor's guilt as well and I wish I could slap some sense into her.

[Monica21]

I always sort of assumed that for Shepard's that (rightfully!!!) allow Kaidan back onto the Normandy post-Citadel Cerberus coup, Kaidan was the Executive Officer? Could be wrong there. 

 

So much double standards with this, with so many people critical of Kaidan's promotions and lambasting it for making no sense and Kaidan not deserving it, yet there is nocriticisms of the exact same promotions happening to Ashley! And you are right, her promotions were highly more nonsensical compared to Kaidan. Kaidan for one I felt proved a better Spectre candidate as seen on the Citadel, when compared to Ashley, she seems to trust Udina more than Kaidan did. Compare that to an Ashley who hated Udina's guts in ME1 and I land upon just another reason for disliking Ash's character.

 

I was in a thread not that long ago with quite a few questions of how the heck Ashley got promoted as fast as she did. So I think the question is definitely out there, but I don't think either Kaidan or Ashley's promotions are discussed much.

[fhs33721]

I stopped a rogue spectre and alone took out his geth armies, Probably stopped a collector invasion of earth and hundreds of human colonies

You also worked for a known terrorist organization for quite some time (the same that was behind killing Alliance personnel in ME1), potentially blew up an entire star system (if you've done the Arrical DLC) and potentially did a lot of other morally quesionable things (if playing as renegade).

 

Those kind of things usually result in not getting promoted.

[Barquiel]

I always thought calling Shepard "Commander" was more of an iconic thing than anything else (the N7 armor instead of some kind of spectre armor is probably another example...)

[capn233]

Alliance ranks are a little whonky, but it is also worth noting that this specific codex entry was written for ME1 IIRC.  By ME3 there are various other strange ranks that also exist, and given that ME3 writers half the time didn't know their own lore I wouldn't be surprised if they thought Major was supposed to be equivalent to LCdr.  That would have made more sense the whole time.

 

I think the stranger thing is that they had the inconsistent application of marine ranks for some characters and only some ranks to begin with.

 

Ashley has a more impressive rise, fwiw.

[Monica21]

I think the stranger thing is that they had the inconsistent application of marine ranks for some characters and only some ranks to begin with.

 

Part of the problem with understanding the ranks is that they smushed the Naval and Marine ranking systems together.

[gothpunkboy89]

You also worked for a known terrorist organization for quite some time (the same that was behind killing Alliance personnel in ME1), potentially blew up an entire star system (if you've done the Arrical DLC) and potentially did a lot of other morally quesionable things (if playing as renegade).

 

Those kind of things usually result in not getting promoted.

 

Yea for some reason military don't really look highly on someone willingly working for terrorist organizations. Must be some sort of flaw in their logic.

[congokong]

Like Kaidan himself, his military record his nearly as spottlessly bland as well; never even losing someone to hostile action under his command. That could help explain his promotion.

Posters have commented on why Shepard never gets promoted (outside of becoming a spectre) in the Alliance. The answer is likely convenience to remember the pc as "Commander" Shepard. It still baffles me though how Shepard is lower than rank than anyone really after what he/she accomplished; including having Hackett (the man who presided over the most devastating defeat in human history) come on Shepard's ship and give a speech before the final assault. It isn't Shepard, the one who united everyone and actually picked up a gun.

[Jukaga]

Like Kaidan himself, his military record his nearly as spottlessly bland as well; never even losing someone to hostile action under his command. That could help explain his promotion.

Posters have commented on why Shepard never gets promoted (outside of becoming a spectre) in the Alliance. The answer is likely convenience to remember the pc as "Commander" Shepard. It still baffles me though how Shepard is lower than rank than anyone really after what he/she accomplished; including having Hackett (the man who presided over the most devastating defeat in human history) come on Shepard's ship and give a speech before the final assault. It isn't Shepard, the one who united everyone and actually picked up a gun.

 

Yeah, that Hackett scene at the end was galling. It should have been Shepard addressing the fleet. I recall the first time I watched that scene, the Admiral's escorts with drawn pistols got me nervous. Who has powersuited marines with drawn pistols as guards? If he needed escorts they should have been carrying rifles on their backs.

[StarcloudSWG]

Chalk all this up to the very loose and informal understanding of how the military works that Bioware writers have. They don't realize that each branch of service has its own structure, or that there are almost universally enlisted tracks and officer tracks, where some enlisted ranks hold much more operational power than many officer ranks.

 

They clearly didn't bother to research it either. On the other hand, at least *someone* was aware of their weakness in this area and justified the casual approach by defining the position of Spectre as not being bound by rules, regulations, or laws.

[StarcloudSWG]

Yeah, that Hackett scene at the end was galling. It should have been Shepard addressing the fleet. I recall the first time I watched that scene, the Admiral's escorts with drawn pistols got me nervous. Who has powersuited marines with drawn pistols as guards? If he needed escorts they should have been carrying rifles on their backs.

 

The scene was probably re-used from early workups where Shepard is arrested at the start of the game and made to stand trial. Replace some models and change a few of the animations, and now its the 'final briefing' before the assault on Earth.

[BurningBlood]

It always made sense to me in this way:

 

In ME1, "commander" is Shepard's rank in the Alliance.

In ME2, Shepard isn't in the Alliance anymore.  I don't know Cerberus' ranking structure, but "commander" is more like Shepard's job title: the person in command of the anti-Collector task force.

By ME3, "commander" is beyond rank or description.  It has become Shepard's anointed title, the tip of the spear that leads the galaxy in the charge against Reaper forces.

[aoibhealfae]

Technically, Shepard's official rank in the trilogy is "Spectre Shepard" and "Agent Shepard". Which you hardly heard anyone refer Shepard either. 

 

In SWTOR, you have trooper being promoted every chapter or so from Sargeant, Lieutenant, Captain and Major. Honestly, I don't feel attachment to them as I did with being called Commander.The rank structure is similar to the ones in ME, then again, they're probably written with the same template. But the title "Commander" is an honorary title for those in command. Which annoys me when The Outlander automatically being referred as Commander by everyone post-Chapter 9. It made sense for Trooper maybe but Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, The Wrath of the Empire... mmm

[bunch1]

Shepard, Kaiden, and Ashley are all unique in their situations. 

 

Shepard is likely newly promoted at the start of ME1 and then given Spectre status.  Little over a year into this rank he/she is killed.  3 years later you are brought back and though you can reclaim your spectre status you are never publicly acknowledge by the alliance as being back.  That doesn't happen until the alliance arrest you and strips you of rank.  And once ME3 starts ranks don't mean much to Shepard as they are once again a full on council spectre and the alliance has more to worry about then your rank.  On a side note if you do take back your spectre status working with Cerberus and destroying a batarian relay and world, that the alliance was planing to do anyway, are all completely legal and the alliance would have no right to arrest you for it.

 

Kaiden is one of the most accomplished biotic officers in the alliance so it would make sense for him to be given command of a new biotic unit.  But that means he has to have the rank and authority to command it which is why he is promoted.  He obviously has to outrank the commanders and lieutenants who are also assigned under him as well as have clearance to classified information that may be tied to rank.   

 

Ashley seems to be promoted as a political ploy.  Their is simply no justification to jump so many ranks in so little time.  I could understand 2nd or 1st lieutenant but to go past that is a joke as she would not have the knowledge of a junior officer and be unfit to be a co or xo of a company, battalion, or ship she would likely be given.

[Dani86]

I think the Ashley promotion is eve

 

 

From the Codex;

 

in ascending order of responsibility, the ranks of the Alliance are:

 

ENLISTED

 

Serviceman 3rd Class/Private 2nd Class

Serviceman 2nd Class/Private 1st Class

Serviceman 1st Class/Corporal

 

NCOs

 

Service Chief

Gunnery Chief

Operations Chief

 

OFFICERS

 

2nd Lieutenant

1st Lieutenant

Staff Lieutenant

Lieutenant Commander

Staff Commander

Captain/Major

Rear Admiral/General

Admiral

Fleet Admiral

 

 

 

 

What was more nonsensical was Ashley's jump from being Operations Chief to Lieutenant Commander in six months of "officer's training". The only way I could reason this was the military promoted her (excessively) as an apology to her father and grandfather. However, her inexperience really show especially with Udina. 

 

 

I agree that Ashley's swift rise just makes no sense. She started as a Gunnery Chief in ME 1 and then is a Lt. Commander by ME 3. As far as I know, in real life, this could not have happened. Officers need to have a college education except in extreme circumstances where a non-comm does such a fantastic job on the battlefield, they are given a field commission. Even these field commissions are only good during the battle and have to be confirmed afterward. The non-comm also has to still go to officer training to learn how to be an officer. Going from a Gunnery Chief to a Lt. Commander would be a hell of a feat in three years time which is the supposed length of time for all three games.  

[Pasquale1234]

Ashley seems to be promoted as a political ploy.  Their is simply no justification to jump so many ranks in so little time.  I could understand 2nd or 1st lieutenant but to go past that is a joke as she would not have the knowledge of a junior officer and be unfit to be a co or xo of a company, battalion, or ship she would likely be given.

Ashley has had experience commanding a squad.

I think of some of us don't understand what it is to be an NCO (Non Commissioned Officer) or just how valuable they are considered to be IRL. My experience in the actual US Navy taught me that Chiefs are to be respected, sometimes as much if not more than junior officers. Many of them do have more responsibility and authority than some junior officers. It takes a lot of hard work and excellence to become an NCO.

That said, her rise through the officer ranks was meteoric, to say the least.

In trying to figure out how it might have happened, this is about the best I can come up with:
- In the immediate aftermath of ME1, she went to OCS (Officer Candidate School) and came out with a commission. It is *possible* that she was initially commissioned as an O2 due to her previous service and the defeating-Saren-with-Shepard aura.
- We know that at least 2-1/2 years passed between the end of ME1 and the beginning of ME3, which is enough time in rank to earn another promotion.
- The Udina factor could have pushed her rank. He really wanted another human Spectre, and may have been willing to nudge her rank to make her look more like Shepard.

I do remember my jaw dropping the first time I played ME3 and heard her new rank.

[bunch1]

Ashley has had experience commanding a squad.

I think of some of us don't understand what it is to be an NCO (Non Commissioned Officer) or just how valuable they are considered to be IRL. My experience in the actual US Navy taught me that Chiefs are to be respected, sometimes as much if not more than junior officers. Many of them do have more responsibility and authority than some junior officers. It takes a lot of hard work and excellence to become an NCO.

I completely understand how important they are and the work they put in, my father was a Master Chief USCG.  Often times new officers, lieutenants, are led around by their sr. nco's, sergeants and chiefs.  And that is why I don't think the jump to O-1 or O-2 would be to problematic, obviously their are a great deal of differences but she could make the change.  But the differences of an nco commanding a squad or even platoon to an O-4 who would likely be commanding a battalion is huge.  Going from 30 grunts to 500 and all the paperwork, delegation, planing, and political bs would be to much for her to start with.

 

 

That said, her rise through the officer ranks was meteoric, to say the least.

In trying to figure out how it might have happened, this is about the best I can come up with:
- In the immediate aftermath of ME1, she went to OCS (Officer Candidate School) and came out with a commission. It is *possible* that she was initially commissioned as an O2 due to her previous service and the defeating-Saren-with-Shepard aura.
- We know that at least 2-1/2 years passed between the end of ME1 and the beginning of ME3, which is enough time in rank to earn another promotion.
- The Udina factor could have pushed her rank. He really wanted another human Spectre, and may have been willing to nudge her rank to make her look more like Shepard.

I do remember my jaw dropping the first time I played ME3 and heard her new rank.

Ashley is an Operations Chief at the time of ME2, Horizon mission and afterwards if you talk to Anderson he will address her this way.  So she goes from E-6 to O-4 in the time that Shepard is in lock-down on Earth.  Put that around 6 months, maybe a year.  Their is no way she earned that.  It's not an insult, but she does nothing on Horizon or afterwards to merit that promotion and the only rank she could hope to get afterwards would be O-1, Second Lieutenant.

[themikefest]

Ashley's rank is about the the same as a Staff Sergeant(E-6} in ME1 and in ME2 on Horizon. If anything I would've promoted her to Sergeant First Class(E-7). This is Biowares military. The Alliance. So they can promote her from E-1 to O-10 if they really wanted to.  Whatever.

 

As I said above. Their ranking system is lame. They call Samantha Traynor a Specialist, but that rank doesn't exist according to their ranks. A specialist is an E-4 the same rank as a Corporal. If anything they should've just given her the rank of Lieutenant