497 réponses à ce sujet

[RoboticWater]

I largely agree, but I think even the main quests were somewhat lacking insofar as they depended on the books or DA2 to get the players invested. You remember those complaints about feeling like you were going in blind for Orzammar if you weren't a dwarf? That's how I felt for the whole game. I never felt like the Inquisitor had a reason to care who won the civil war or who stayed behind in the Fade. I cared a great deal one way or the other about the genophage because the game actually spent time on the subject.

Indeed, the quality was lost to scale in more than just the gameplay. What time and energy that went to large yet empty zones should have been used to expand upon the Mage/Templar war, which felt more like a couple of distant skirmishes than an actual conflict, and maybe building towards the events of Trespasser instead of merely giving us a half-baked villain and excusing it later on.

 

I called it a single player MMO in Nov 2014 on Amazon in my first ever review; also called it my GOTY. Based on the 130+ Awards and the industry's top honor, seems others agree.

Wait, are you calling the VGA's GOTY the industry's top honor? I don't think the industry would agree.

 

Besides, like Cyonan said, Inquisition was practically guaranteed a bunch of GOTY awards. Not only did the game have very little competition, but it's a AAA action role-playing game with emotional music and a cast of colorful characters. Considering the kind of game that usually wins GOTY, DA:I is essentially GOTY bait.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Ok, first things first: @The moderator who just gave me a warning for bad language use: Start working in a kindergarten or something man (a place where you can threaten to wash out someone's mouth with soap if they swear!), it's not like I used especially foul language or was cursing/threatening or calling someone names! (hell, I guess it's more because I thought that DA:I wasn't the best game ever and because I called ME3's ending out for not being great (I think I called that one "wanna-be artsy while being *insert swear word here*"))...In fact I feel censored and I think censoring your fans is bad business practice!
 
Note: I used words you hear people using when talking to one another on the street (so no: Not something especially foul that would make even a sailor blush!)
 
So, now I have to repeat myself - without any swear words (because otherwise my opinion will probably get deleted again in what I feel is a white-washing campaign to censor fans who don't agree with you (it's not the first time this has happened to me, but the last time was last year I think!))
 

 
Ok, here we go again:
 
I agree that DA:I wasn't great (it played like an MMO re-tooled for a solo-play!) and I agree that this fills me with dread (even if they are always saying: Mass Effect is a different team - yeah, right! Then why is it a fact that the quality of ME-Games became worse than what I expect from Bioware at the same time the quality of Dragon Age games worsened?)...still, I am cautiously optimistic that they've learned their lesson!
 
Still, it doesn't help that IMHO that new MAKO looks like a piece of farm-equipment (it does not look like an APC at all...I don't even see a gun-turret and unarmed the thing doesn't make much sense because you'd have to leave the vehicle in order to fight, which isn't all that intelligent!)
 
greetings LAX
ps: Censorship...are we in North Korea now or what? If you keep this up I will take my commenting to REDDIT because there you can't just swoop in with your corporate censorship! Haven't learned a thing from Allistair have you? "Swooping is bad" after all (even if you are the one doing it, if it's unjust!)
PPS: I'd like to have that strike for inappropriate language use REMOVED because it was not that bad (I've seen A LOT WORSE on this forum!) and a button added to the "I acknowledge the strike" pop-up to report a moderator (abuse of power or something!)!

Viva la revolucion!

[Elhanan]

As I noted earlier in this thread the GOTY awards mean very little, and 2014 was a year that was ripe for Inquisition to win. The main reason for this is that the only thing most publications look at for GOTY is big hyped up AAA releases which a lot of those in 2014 were flops. This means that the floor was open for Inquisition, with the only real competition coming from Shadow of Mordor.
 
I'd have handed it to Wolfenstein The New Order or Divinity Original Sin for that year myself. Hell even having enjoyed Inquisition I'd probably put Hearthstone ahead of it too.
 
However I think it's still fair to criticize Inquisition on the grounds that most of the zones, while being beautifully designed, were full of side quests and activities that felt dull and boring and more at home in World of Warcraft than an epic single player RPG. I say this being a fan of WoW ever since 2004 when it came out.
 
It's great that you were happy with the "single player MMO"(which is itself an oxymoron, but whatever), but that's not what the game claimed it was going to be.

And yet, the industry gave it the top award (DICE 2015), as did so many others. And it won over Destiny, Divinity: OS, and Shadows of Mordor. While it may not mean much to you, these industry awards seem to make an impression to those in it.

And based on reviews that played the content, it was well received BEFORE launch. Guess others have differing opinions on the content, too.

[Cyonan]

And yet, the industry gave it the top award (DICE 2015), as did so many others. And it won over Destiny, Divinity: OS, and Shadows of Mordor. While it may not mean much to you, these industry awards seem to make an impression to those in it.

And based on reviews that played the content, it was well received BEFORE launch. Guess others have differing opinions on the content, too.

 

Destiny had plenty of problems with it, Divinity wasn't a super hyped up AAA game so it wasn't even considered most of the time, and Shadow of Mordor was the one real competition(which it did take home a pretty solid share of GOTY awards).

 

The industry receiving it well doesn't somehow invalidate the criticisms that many of us have against the game. I accept that others had a different opinion. I don't see how that's relevant to the criticisms we're leveling at the game.

 

I'm not even saying it was a bad game. It's like I said in another thread: I can come up with criticisms of every game I've ever played.

[Creator Limbs]

I seem to recall a thread exactly like this, down to the title...

 

Are you terribly shocked that people in this forum are hive minded after all? :')

[Elhanan]

Destiny had plenty of problems with it, Divinity wasn't a super hyped up AAA game so it wasn't even considered most of the time, and Shadow of Mordor was the one real competition(which it did take home a pretty solid share of GOTY awards).
 
The industry receiving it well doesn't somehow invalidate the criticisms that many of us have against the game. I accept that others had a different opinion. I don't see how that's relevant to the criticisms we're leveling at the game.
 
I'm not even saying it was a bad game. It's like I said in another thread: I can come up with criticisms of every game I've ever played.

And I have my own criticisms of DAI, some of which are noted in my own review at that time. Still is my GOTY choice; still have provided 1100+ hrs of entertainment. And our opinions aside, still garnished many Awards in and outside the industry.

Mostly what I hear on these forums is not constructive crit; 'tis whine made from sour grapes.

[Cyonan]

And I have my own criticisms of DAI, some of which are noted in my own review at that time. Still is my GOTY choice; still have provided 1100+ hrs of entertainment. And our opinions aside, still garnished many Awards in and outside the industry.

Mostly what I hear on these forums is not constructive crit; 'tis whine made from sour grapes.

 

Then you missed when we had the actual bout of long winded posts criticizing Inquisition on the Dragon Age forums after it came out.

 

It's easier to simply sum it all up by saying "It has dull and boring side content" rather than repeating ourselves every single time we want to mention our issues with Inquisition because we already have said it dozens of times since launch.

 

What people are talking about is that these big open areas that BioWare created was filled with content such as:

 

- Shard collection and Astariums, which is mostly just collection busywork for the sake of 100%ing the game and not terribly interesting or engaging content.
- Collecting only the Maker knows how much god damn Elfroot for crafting

- The quests that we did get in the zones were primarily either fetch or otherwise linear quests. There was very little choice in how to resolve these quests, in a BioWare game. We call this bit the "single player MMO" but even BioWare's actual MMO gives us more choice than the side quests of Inquisition did.

 

Most of the game's interesting and engaging content revolves around the main quest and companion quests(which when focused on those things, the game does quite well). Since that makes up such a small percentage of the game's total content, the game feels pretty empty at times. There are entire zones which are beautifully crafted but are filled with nothing but a few linear quests and a bunch of collection busywork.

 

Talking about how many GOTY awards it won or how you still loved the game isn't an actual counter argument to any of the above.

[Laughing_Man]

Most of the game's interesting and engaging content revolves around the main quest and companion quests(which when focused on those things, the game does quite well).

 

The main quest had some awesome moments for sure, but the general flow of the story was rather boring overall.

It was somewhat similar to SWTOR in a way (before they changed it into pretend-SP), the interesting bits of the class stories were buried in so much uninteresting MMO BS, that it was barely worth the effort.

 

GOTY awards are all well and good, but when you consider that some of the press will give the award anyway, and that an actually successful game

(that had no need to hide sales numbers) like TW3 got over 800 awards compared to the 100-200 DA:I got...

[Elhanan]

Then you missed when we had the actual bout of long winded posts criticizing Inquisition on the Dragon Age forums after it came out.
 
It's easier to simply sum it all up by saying "It has dull and boring side content" rather than repeating ourselves every single time we want to mention our issues with Inquisition because we already have said it dozens of times since launch.
 
What people are talking about is that these big open areas that BioWare created was filled with content such as:
 
- Shard collection and Astariums, which is mostly just collection busywork for the sake of 100%ing the game and not terribly interesting or engaging content.
- Collecting only the Maker knows how much god damn Elfroot for crafting
- The quests that we did get in the zones were primarily either fetch or otherwise linear quests. There was very little choice in how to resolve these quests, in a BioWare game. We call this bit the "single player MMO" but even BioWare's actual MMO gives us more choice than the side quests of Inquisition did.
 
Most of the game's interesting and engaging content revolves around the main quest and companion quests(which when focused on those things, the game does quite well). Since that makes up such a small percentage of the game's total content, the game feels pretty empty at times. There are entire zones which are beautifully crafted but are filled with nothing but a few linear quests and a bunch of collection busywork.
 
Talking about how many GOTY awards it won or how you still loved the game isn't an actual counter argument to any of the above.

* Shards and Astrariums also lead to some valuable and useful items/ abilities. Also optional.
* Gathering resources is optional; know of those that simply purchase it and use the War Table. And the same can be said of the Fishbowl system in TW3.
* Side quests are also optional; varied methods for gathering Power, Influence, etc. I select the ones that are relevant to that Inq; not coerced into choosing any of them.

And since these things were encountered and mentioned in the prior reviews, and the game still received awards, my opinion seems to be matched by others.

[Cyonan]

* Shards and Astrariums also lead to some valuable and useful items/ abilities. Also optional.
* Gathering resources is optional; know of those that simply purchase it and use the War Table. And the same can be said of the Fishbowl system in TW3.
* Side quests are also optional; varied methods for gathering Power, Influence, etc. I select the ones that are relevant to that Inq; not coerced into choosing any of them.

And since these things were encountered and mentioned in the prior reviews, and the game still received awards, my opinion seems to be matched by others.

 

I don't care if it's optional or not, because the content that isn't optional is too little. So since I can't claim the game lacks content as a whole(otherwise people will point to all the stuff I just criticized for being boring), I'm going to say it lacks interesting and engaging content.

 

What you're offering here isn't a counter argument to that. You're simply trying to dismiss my criticisms of the game while validating your own opinion that it was a great game just because the industry gave it some awards.

 

but that's not how criticism works. You don't get to dismiss it just because the industry thought it was a good game. It being a good game or not is completely irrelevant to everything I'm saying right now, because I'm not calling into question if Inquisition was a good game or not.

 

You need to stop acting like I'm calling Inquisition pure garbage, because I'm not. I don't think that it is.

[Elhanan]

I don't care if it's optional or not, because the content that isn't optional is too little. So since I can't claim the game lacks content as a whole(otherwise people will point to all the stuff I just criticized for being boring), I'm going to say it lacks interesting and engaging content.
 
What you're offering here isn't a counter argument to that. You're simply trying to dismiss my criticisms of the game while validating your own opinion that it was a great game just because the industry gave it some awards.
 
but that's not how criticism works. You don't get to dismiss it just because the industry thought it was a good game. It being a good game or not is completely irrelevant to everything I'm saying right now, because I'm not calling into question if Inquisition was a good game or not.
 
You need to stop acting like I'm calling Inquisition pure garbage, because I'm not. I don't think that it is.

For you, that may be the case, but for myself and many others the main and side content can be quite engaging; almost each area having some major reason for going there.

Neither of our opinions are fact, but the industry feedback, telemetry info, sales, and other documents indicate a success.

[RoboticWater]

For you, that may be the case, but for myself and many others the main and side content can be quite engaging; almost each area having some major reason for going there.

Neither of our opinions are fact, but the industry feedback, telemetry info, sales, and other documents indicate a success.

Of course none of our opinions are fact, but we're the ones making a case against the game that's a little more in depth "it's optional." DA:I's sidequests aren't just boring in large quantities, they're boring by themselves. Even if I could "just ignore them,"–which I shouldn't have to, because I believe that all content in a game should provide a base level of enjoyment–I would be avoiding maybe 50-60% of the game. At that point I have to wonder if DA:I is worth the full $60 I'm paying.

 

Regardless, if we're going to have a decent argument here, you can't just fall back on "that's just your opinion." We know it is. Unless you can prove that the majority of the playerbase likes DA:I because of its quest design, then I'll continue to believe that players generally like to have more content in their sidequests. Right now, you're only citing nebulous sales information (not even proper figures) that, at most. prove that players may have enjoyed DA:I in spite of it's sidequests. Which, incidentally, is how I feel about the matter.

 

Bear in mind though, DA:I was bound to do well. It's a high produciton value AAA action RPG set in an established universe made by a well-known developer and marketed by one of the biggest publishers. Even if DA:I did have decent competition in 2014, it never would have flopped. This supposed telemetry data that you have doesn't really prove anything at all. BioWare would have needed to make a genuinely bad game from start to finish to get a overall poor reception. Hell, I think even AC:Unity got pretty good sales despite how objectively broken it was.

 

However, there is a sizable population of more hardcore gamers (on these forums and elsewhere) who seem vocally disappointed with DA:I. In fact, "after Dragon Age Inquisition I just can't get exited for this..." is a line I hear almost verbatim every single time I see a piece of news regarding Andromeda on reddit or NeoGaf. I see the same specific criticism brought up every time: DA:I's quests are boring, and I've yet to see more than a handful of people strongly claim the opposite.  

[Cyonan]

For you, that may be the case, but for myself and many others the main and side content can be quite engaging; almost each area having some major reason for going there.

Neither of our opinions are fact, but the industry feedback, telemetry info, sales, and other documents indicate a success.

 

At what point do you think I'm arguing about it not being a success?

 

I'm giving criticism for the game. Can I not do that around here without people thinking I hate the game or think it was a flop?

[Elhanan]

At what point do you think I'm arguing about it not being a success?
 
I'm giving criticism for the game. Can I not do that around here without people thinking I hate the game or think it was a flop?

It's easier to simply sum it all up by saying "It has dull and boring side content" rather than repeating ourselves every single time we want to mention our issues with Inquisition because we already have said it dozens of times since launch.

Opinion; not fact, and mine differs. And given the other info already mentioned, it would seem that many have a similar POV.

[FKA_Servo]

He's here all week, folks! All week every week, forever and ever, until we all die of old age.

Stay tuned for a preview of next week's episode, where Elhanan directly and concretely addresses the substance of a question directed at him...

... Or does he?

(He does not.)

[Cyonan]

Opinion; not fact, and mine differs. And given the other info already mentioned, it would seem that many have a similar POV.

 

Yes, it's an opinion. Yes, yours differs.

 

Typically these discussions work by us coming up with points and counter points to the arguments surrounding our opinions. You're making counter points to arguments I'm not making. It's like you're not even reading my posts and just making stuff up instead.

 

So I repeat: At what point do you think that I am arguing that Inquisition was not a success(because calling side content boring isn't saying it wasn't successful or even a bad game)?

[Elhanan]

I hope ME:A repeats the successes of DAI, continues to have fewer cut-scenes, and avoids the 'mature' content seen in other games like TW3.

While I am no fan of the Bottles of Thedas, I now skip that questline as it is optional. However, I enjoy the content some others criticize like the rewards from solving the Astrariums, and hope such content remains included.

[The Elder King]

I hope ME:A repeats the successes of DAI, continues to have fewer cut-scenes, and avoids the 'mature' content seen in other games like TW3.

While I am no fan of the Bottles of Thedas, I now skip that questline as it is optional. However, I enjoy the content some others criticize like the rewards from solving the Astrariums, and hope such content remains included.

If I were you I wouldn't hold too much hope on the cinematic content being as low as in DAI. The DA team seems to consider already the return to the dialogues being mostly (if not full) as the previous DA games (though I still think that part of the reason for the different types in DAI was a resource cost, and not only a design choice), so I doubt MEA will follow DAI's on that department. Regardless, it'll depend on the feedback they received, which might be more negative then positive in this regard.

 

I don't think the same type of content found in TW3 fits ME, though I don't have problems with. And I hope DA4 will be more of a middle ground between DAI and TW3 in this.

[SKAR]

I hope ME:A repeats the successes of DAI, continues to have fewer cut-scenes, and avoids the 'mature' content seen in other games like TW3.

While I am no fan of the Bottles of Thedas, I now skip that questline as it is optional. However, I enjoy the content some others criticize like the rewards from solving the Astrariums, and hope such content remains included.

oh ****.

[slimgrin]

I hope ME:A repeats the successes of DAI, continues to have fewer cut-scenes, and avoids the 'mature' content seen in other games like TW3.

 

 

I don't want fewer cutscenes as Bioware pretty much gets the ratio just right, and they generally have a good team designing them. This isn't Elder Scrolls. Mass Effect is meant to be a stylistic, cinematic experience. 

[Elhanan]

I don't want fewer cutscenes as Bioware pretty much gets the ratio just right, and they generally have a good team designing them. This isn't Elder Scrolls. Mass Effect is meant to be a stylistic, cinematic experience.

ME2 @ ME3 had far too lengthy cut-scenes; much prefer to play a game than watch it. I am for closer camera shots in conversations with random NPC's, but I encourage Bioware to continue to keep cut-scenes for Main quests as a rule.

[German Soldier]

All I have really heard about this game so far is that there will be big worlds to explore with the new Mako.  But if Dragon Age Inquisition is any indicator I say so what?  Bioware at this point dose not know how to make big open areas any fun.  Now don't get me wrong.  I hope that this game is great and I love everything about it.  But I REALLY hope the main story plays out like the original Trilogy with missions and set piece locations not having to run around huge planets and do a bunch of random junk to unlock the next story portion of the game...

I agree with the sentiment but please do trust MAA at best simply do not preorder it see gameplay first.

[German Soldier]

To me, the argument has always seemed silly. "Can you go find my son and let him know his mother can't breathe? She needs his potion," is a lot more acceptable in Thedas than it is in entire galaxies. I don't see fetch quests in Mass Effect, yet people are just so concerned over that little detail. 

 

The way people talk on this forum, it's like DAI is the worst game in the whole entire world. I loved it. 

The notion to send the last expandable person of the planet which also happen to be an Inquisitor and leader of an uber powerful organization to complete this kind of quests is to me game breaking.

[Elhanan]

The notion to send the last expandable person of the planet which also happen to be an Inquisitor and leader of an uber powerful organization to complete this kind of quests is to me game breaking.

And if the so called leader is not open to the people he supposedly protects, he will not accept their quests anyway.

[BobZilla84]

All I have really heard about this game so far is that there will be big worlds to explore with the new Mako.  But if Dragon Age Inquisition is any indicator I say so what?  Bioware at this point dose not know how to make big open areas any fun.  Now don't get me wrong.  I hope that this game is great and I love everything about it.  But I REALLY hope the main story plays out like the original Trilogy with missions and set piece locations not having to run around huge planets and do a bunch of random junk to unlock the next story portion of the game...

As long as they don't repeat  any of ME3s stupid mistakes i'll be a happy man.