497 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

DA:I is far from being the worst RPG ever made, and anyone that claims it is either hasn't played many games or is just turning up the hyperbole.

That said, much of the criticism leveled at the game was earned, even if some fans have a tendency to exaggerate. While a good game overall, DA:I was deeply flawed and was a less successful marriage of a strong focus on characters with an open world approach than TW3. Had it released in 2015 it would not have been game of the year. DA:I benefitted from being released during a year when there were few good games and no great ones.

While I do agree on your point on DAI (and since they're following the open world approach I hope they improve on the model) but on the year with a few good games, I recall hearing it for three straight years (2013, 2014 and 2015). I don't know if it's just because of the numerous delays of almost every major games, or something else, but it seems every year that are people saying that 'this' year didn't have a good numbers of good games.

[Cyonan]

While I do agree on your point on DAI (and since they're following the open world approach I hope they improve on the model) but on the year with a few good games, I recall hearing it for three straight years (2013, 2014 and 2015). I don't know if it's just because of the numerous delays of almost every major games, or something else, but it seems every year that are people saying that 'this' year didn't have a good numbers of good games.

 

Looking back I don't know as I would say that 2014 was a weak year for gaming, but it was set up for Inquisition to score an easy win in the GoTY awards.

 

One of the main reasons I'll often say GoTY awards don't mean much is because they are just a contest between the biggest overhyped AAA games, of which in 2014 a lot of them were big failures due to launch issues. It left the floor open for a competition between basically just Shadow of Mordor vs Inquisition. Games like Divinity: Original Sin got overlooked because it wasn't a huge hyped up title.

 

I don't really get why people would say 2013 or 2015 were bad years in gaming, though. I mean they're no 1998, but they're still solid.

[In Exile]

If it's so great though, I expect more bragging or pride.. or..something. That's all.

I don't know what fans would think. Plenty of developers are transparent, both on cost and sales.. I don't see any big deal made about it.

EA doesn't do this because the fans though. They used to release numbers, but they hide everything behind "division" numbers now. Like they won't say what individual games do... just what their divisions do. It's easier to save face when FIFA kicks ass, but NBA Live tanks.

They do it to protect developers from investors. If FIFA rocks and NBA Live tanks, investors will start to push for EA to cut the dead weight. In fact, you'll see a push for a company to strand profitable but relatively underpeforming divisions. And for Bioware - who've shown their model wasn't good enough to keep them afloat at their height - that just means being shuttered.

[In Exile]

It's the eternal cycle. When ME2 was released, everyone whined about how they disliked the plot, thought the characters were too gimmicky, the shooting was bad, the small levels were bad, the lack of RPG elements were bad, so on and so forth. Now everyone seems to think it's the serie's pinnacle.

Same for Origins, too. Back when it was released, 'twas a dumbed down Baldur's Gate wannabe with recycled lore, bad visuals, standard main plot, and all that jazz. Now it's easily considered amongst Bioware's best games by many.

That's why I always have difficulty putting stock in forum angst. Sure, there many, many valid concerns and criticisms among it all, especially in dedicated feedback threads. That's not an issue at all. But the doomsaying about how much Bioware sucks and has lost their ways and it's all EA's fault and they no longer make RPGs and DA:I was the worst game ever and so on and so forth, isn't really something I pay much attention to. People are going to say the exact same thing of Andromeda regardless of how good, well-received and/or profitable it ends up being anyway.

You're not telling it right. DAO had two major criticisms: that the origins were a crime against role play and a sign that Bioware abandoned true RP fans by chosing to force a fixed protagonist since you couldn't invent your own background and character, and the combat was a dumbed down MMORPG with cool downs, DPS, lame trinity aggro mechanics, and a top difficulty setting based on cheap asymmetric combat and random resistances.

Of course it's likely many of those gamers left and were replaced by those who liked DAO over DA2 in the next pool of complaints. It's not the same people but it's the same life cycle.

Bioware needs to learn how to better praise the ego of these gamers like CDPR to get them to stay on. Bioware's issue is that they do have a design vision they're inclined to keep, it's just one that is antithetical to keeping all your old fans: redesigning your mechanics and model on the next iteration. Bioware always was pretty experimental as a studio so they constantly got hate from their "old" fans for their new release. It happened every single game. The only thing that EVER changes for Bioware's reputation is how many new fans they attracted relative to the ones they lost.

[AtreiyaN7]

*reads thread and proceeds to yawn*

[von uber]

*reads thread and proceeds to yawn*

Pretty much what I did halfway (?) through DA:I before giving up.

[AtreiyaN7]

Pretty much what I did halfway (?) through DA:I before giving up.

 

Not everything is for everyone, so it's unfortunate that you didn't enjoy it. Since I, however, spent over two hundred hours with DA:I, the game certainly managed to keep my interest far longer than the OP's umpteenth similar thread about how he doesn't like x/y/z in DA:I (especially since the DA:I team isn't involved in the development of ME:A as far as I know).

[Sartoz]

Not everything is for everyone, so it's unfortunate that you didn't enjoy it. Since I, however, spent over two hundred hours with DA:I, the game certainly managed to keep my interest far longer than the OP's umpteenth similar thread about how he doesn't like x/y/z in DA:I (especially since the DA:I team isn't involved in the development of ME:A as far as I know).

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Actually, many of them went to help out the Montreal studio, after DA:I launched.... 

[dreamgazer]

In my opinion, DAI is not a bad game, just a disappointing one. I enjoyed my first playthrough of it, and had some fun in the multiplayer, but the experience did not resonate with me the way, say, Mass Effect 2's experience did. It was a bit too average for what I've come to expect from Bioware, especially in terms of storytelling.

 

If anything, ME2 should've prepared you for subpar storytelling. Its main plot, railroading, and focus on daddy issue loyalty missions are several levels underneath both ME3 and Inquisition, both of which were improvements  in many areas over the second installments of their respective series.

[Sartoz]

Snip

  Bioware's issue is that they do have a design vision they're inclined to keep, it's just one that is antithetical to keeping all your old fans: redesigning your mechanics and model on the next iteration. Bioware always was pretty experimental as a studio so they constantly got hate from their "old" fans for their new release. 

Snip

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"... redesigning your mechanics and model on the next iteration.....".

Quite true, but DA:I was the worst combat re-design ever, from DA:O and DA2.  I found combat changes from Mass Effect 1 to 2 but not as radical from 2 to 3.

 

Andromeda,  will also have combat changes "new dynamic" with old "similarities". I guess the jump jets being one of them.   If EA Play shows off a game demo, the combat footage ought to tell us something.

[Felya87]

DAI is what is making me came here and looking for news about MEA. I had a lot of fun with Inquisition, even with its annoyances (the non cinematic dialogues, the vast but quite empty world, and the horrible hairstyles to say some). Is not a perfect game, but it wasn't perfect ME3 too, even without tha disgusting ending. I really hope MEA will be as entartaining for me as DAI is still.

 

Edit for grammar errors (sorry for my poor english)

[von uber]

ME3 is better than DA:I in my opinion.
DA:I isn't a bad game on a technical level, its just dull. Which is actually probably worse.

[taglag]

 1. For the most part I have to say I have more than gotten my Moneys worth out of DAI. I have and ungodly amount of hours vested in the game play, much of that restarting after quitting, as I had trouble going back to the same character after a long time away from the game. [ could not remember well how to play, or what I had done. Starting a new character just made it easier for me ] 

 

2. However as to its design that supposedly out strips DAO. The only thing I can truly say it does is give more area to explore. That for me is the only extra that DAI can truly be said to give to the player.

 

3.   The comical banter between companions is just not there for me. there are moments but not many. DAO kept me in stitches, very good comic writing in that one for me.

 

4. The driving force to keep you going to the bitter end is  just not really there. That is why I would quit, start remembering the fun parts, and try again latter. [ I did finally finish one game's main quest by avoiding doing almost any side quest's. ]

 

5. Its Story is very disorienting to me because the Whole game is based off a DLC I never bought, [  I did play, and replay DA2 many, many times, but this character I or my Hawke was suppose to have killed was like totally alien to me, and It disjointed the whole game for me ]

 

6. I have said it is a good game [ As far as wasting your time, giving you a lot to do, which is what i expect from any game, Relaxation, and escapism ], it does not really feel like a DA extension to me, and feels like some other game, but I have had lots of fun with it. Just never seemed to feel like a Dragon Age game to me.

 

7. So I hope some of the fan driven forum stuff will be read by Bioware, and just maybe they will be able to build a wonderful ME:A by perhaps learning better how to use there new engine, and better how to extend the ME universe, and not produce something that is alien as not even feeling like it is in the same environment as ME1 - 3 [ yes i know is different universe, but I am meaning more the civics or governmental, and racial personality continuity ]. It should be different, yes, but not as different as DAI felt to me, when compared to DAO, and DA2. 

 

   DAI just never really felt like a Dragon Age game. To me just felt like something else, not that that is totally bad, but it was disorienting to me. ( I had a real hard time because the quest was based off a DLC, I never played, placing Hawke in this new universe, for me this was very problematic ) ( Also the new game engine differences contributed to the disorientation I am sure ) 

[Mcfly616]

Has DA ever been as good as ME? Nope.

 

 

So, it's not much of a measuring stick then. 

[Iakus]

DA:I is far from being the worst RPG ever made, and anyone that claims it is either hasn't played many games or is just turning up the hyperbole.

That said, much of the criticism leveled at the game was earned, even if some fans have a tendency to exaggerate. While a good game overall, DA:I was deeply flawed and was a less successful marriage of a strong focus on characters with an open world approach than TW3. Had it released in 2015 it would not have been game of the year. DA:I benefitted from being released during a year when there were few good games and no great ones.

Yep.  DAI has some rightly earned criticisms.  But overall, it's not a bad game.

 

It's certainly leaps and bounds better than ME3.

[slimgrin]

Has DA ever been as good as ME? Nope.

 

 

So, it's not much of a measuring stick then. 

 

DA:O does a number of things better. For starters, the C&C is less obvious and far more drastic than it ever gets in Mass Effect. It also has deeper gameplay mechanics. The writing is more nuanced as well, with more complex scenarios and characters.  

[omgodzilla]

Honestly, even if the open world areas of MEA do not reach Witcher 3 levels of having meaningful, story-based, side-quest content, I am far more intrigued by the idea of exploration in a Mass Effect game than I am in a Dragon Age one. Dragon Age is far more restricted in the types of environments they can present us with. Which isn't surprising since it always takes place on one planet. In MEA, we are exploring a bunch of different worlds in an entirely different galaxy. That gives Bioware alot more freedom in designing environments, people, creatures, etc. That in itself should make exploration more tolerable in MEA than it was in DAI imo. 

[KotorEffect3]

ME3 is better than DA:I in my opinion.
DA:I isn't a bad game on a technical level, its just dull. Which is actually probably worse.

DAI is kind of a funny game for me.  On the one hand it stretches thin in places, gets grindy, and tends to get mmo like in places.  On the other hand when it is at it's best it surpasses anything else bioware has done.  It's a game with a lot of moving parts.  The ones that do work make the game highly addictive and alot of fun.   They are why I keep coming back.  But the other aspects of the game (the grindiness, mmo style filler content, lack of cinematic dialog, etc..) are why I often burn out before I can finish a playthrough.   Now Mass Effect is made by a different team and it is made with a different philosophy but with that said while both franchises are different animals there are traits that sometimes do carry across.  One thing that happened with DAI that I hope doesn't happen with MEA is that DAI lost some of it's DA feel.  There were times it didn't feel as much like a DA game.  I want MEA to maintain a Mass Effect feel.  It doesn't need to be a 100 hundred hour long monster like DAI does.  It can be a big robust game that doesn't do overkill.

[vbibbi]

Honestly, even if the open world areas of MEA do not reach Witcher 3 levels of having meaningful, story-based, side-quest content, I am far more intrigued by the idea of exploration in a Mass Effect game than I am in a Dragon Age one. Dragon Age is far more restricted in the types of environments they can present us with. Which isn't surprising since it always takes place on one planet. In MEA, we are exploring a bunch of different worlds in an entirely different galaxy. That gives Bioware alot more freedom in designing environments, people, creatures, etc. That in itself should make exploration more tolerable in MEA than it was in DAI imo. 

 

I think the ME setting is better suited to open world exploration than the DA setting. So I am hopeful that it will be done better than in DAI. And that feedback from what worked and what didn't in DAI makes its way into MEA. Ultimately, though, I think there are some factors out of the developers' hands, such as a requirement that the game can be advertised as "over 100+ hours of gameplay!" and "more map area than those of the original trilogy combined!" These marketing requirements tie their hands and will force them to make the maps as large as possible, and to have enough filler quests in them that they take up the player's time.

[Rabinson]

I buy DA:I and play until the end... Now I hate this game... I should never have bought it, with a lot of bugs and plastic hair (worst char creator than a lot of games)

 

But I learned. Now I expect the game to be released, read some reviews, it appear a great game, download an unofficial version and please me, buy original.

 

It is an alternative not to put my money in the trash after the incredible disappointment that was DA: I for me.

 

Sorry Bioware/EA.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Has DA ever been as good as ME? Nope.

 

 

So, it's not much of a measuring stick then. 

 

It's the opposite as far as I'm concerned. Mass Effect has a cool setting at first glance, and is rather more iconic and innovative in a sense (the voiced protagonist and dialog wheel many RPGs have today? ME popularized it). But only ME3's gameplay is really good, the series never could inject enough RPG elements to be satisfying as I see it, and its writing is truly all over the place. Mass Effect has a few really well written parts, such as the Genophage plotline and the ME2 Geth. If you move away from that, it really struggles to shine, and the main plot in all three games is really not great at all, especially in ME2/3. And, of course, it also suffers from some of the worst bits of writing Bioware as a company ever had, like Cerberus and the endings.

 

The companions in ME are great, of course, but at this point even Bioware's harshest critics usually concede that they are good at that. They barely get points for it anymore.

 

Meanwhile, Dragon Age's greatest sin is that Bioware experiments too much between instalments probably. They should have refined the Origins formula, but rather they try stuff like DA2's more static story and DA:I's open world and 8 ability limit, and it really doesn't always works out. Writing-wise, DA is superior if you ask me, much more consistent between installments, with generally more thought put into its situations and dilemnas and a much better continuity, sans mishaps like Schrodinger's Leliana. Gameplay wise, it never bored or dissapointed me, and I love that they stuck to party-based combat in a time where RPGs often have you playing one character. 

 

Dragon Age feels like a series that was planned from the get-go writing wise. They even started foreshadowing revelations in Inquisition and Trespasser as far back as DA2 Mass Effect was obviously rushed/made up as the writers went along. Here's hoping they don't do the same mistake in Andromeda.

[Lady Artifice]

Has DA ever been as good as ME? Nope.

 

 

So, it's not much of a measuring stick then. 

 

The lore, dialogue, and treatment of political stories in DA has been consistently the superior of the two.

[Steelcan]

The lore, dialogue, and treatment of political stories in DA has been consistently the superior of the two.

I'd argue with the lore and politics, the dialogue varies vastly

[FKA_Servo]

Has DA ever been as good as ME? Nope.

 

 

So, it's not much of a measuring stick then. 

 

In most aspects, it's apples (party based pausable RPG) to aardvarks (cinematic third person shooter).

 

If we're talking about coherence of the lore and the world, and the general quality of the writing and characterization, they're probably equals if we're just looking at ME1.

 

Dragon Age pulls far, far ahead as of ME2.

[Lady Artifice]

I'd argue with the lore and politics, the dialogue varies vastly

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on the politics in particular. I'm not actually a champion of how most DA politics are handled in themselves, but I find them way, way less cringeworthy on average than most of the encounters with the council in ME, especially the first game.

 

I know you'd like DA power plays to be more accurately feudal in general, but I'm on pretty good terms with the fantastical nature of how it works. The lack of resemblance to real history doesn't bother me.