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[Elhanan]

And yet you talk about it more than me.

I still defend DAI in the TW3, too. It is what I do....

P.S. The preceding page before my post included pro-TW3 posts, and those critical of DAI. Context is important.

[capn233]

I can. 

 

1. The ability to have your character actually being more your character instead of Bioware's character. 

2  .The ability to have the protagonist express a variety of emotions for specific situations. 

3.  The ability to play races other than human, allowing different perspectives.

4.  Having your inner circle able to approve and disapprove of your actions and have the game reflect that. 

5.  Having a variety of romances, particularly ones that don't make sex mandatory but instead optional or ambiguous. 

6.  Having level design that for the most part allowed a variety of options when it came to fighting instead of endless corridors. 

7.  The use of the third dimension on maps(we know they are doing this one because jump jets/jetpack). 

etc. 

 

Disagree with this list, except for one item.  Maybe one and a half.

 

1 and 2: essentially the same thing, and the Inquisitor wasn't really much different than Shepard with one exception (the next point).

3: Makes basically 0 difference in DAI.  Not all that different from Shepard's different "backgrounds" in ME1, except less important because they didn't even have different side quests.  Even in DAO the main difference between "races" was just the different origin / prologue missions.

4. Approval was the one thing DAI did that might work decently in ME, I agree.

5. There wasn't any greater variety in romances than in ME really, and in some ways was more limited.

6 and 7. Very rarely.  Most mainline quest encounters happen in defined spaces where the enemy might have some sort of advantage, but it is hardly every exploitable by the player.  Like in various ME2 maps.  Some mundane encounters against endlessly spawning mooks in various maps might let you use some terrain, but the advantage was limited to essentially one archery talent, and was counterbalanced by small differences in elevation borking a bunch of melee powers.  Maybe the jetpack will be useful outside of gathering space-shards.  That remains to be seen.

[AlanC9]

Such counterbalance is a good thing, isn't it? Terrain should hurt the player as often as it helps.

[von uber]

I still defend DAI in the TW3, too. It is what I do....

P.S. The preceding page before my post included pro-TW3 posts, and those critical of DAI. Context is important.

 

How can you defend DA:I against TW3 if you have not played both? Surely your personal opinion about DA:I needs to be born out by your personal opinion of TW3, having experienced both?

[Elhanan]

How can you defend DA:I against TW3 if you have not played both? Surely your personal opinion about DA:I needs to be born out by your personal opinion of TW3, having experienced both?

1: Cannot play TW3 (or TW2) due to a lack of Pause and moving to an Action format.

2: Excessive so-called mature content; not my thing.

But I have watched some LP and other vids to insure that I do not wish to play it. Unless modded, the Fishbowl effect for searching would distract me, or sicken me due to my vertigo.

[fizzypop]

Yes, I exaggerated a bit, but the point still stands. The last Bioware game always seems to be the worst on the forums, especially in the lull between releases. Then the new game releases and it's the new worst game while the one which was the worst previously now usually gets a fairer treatment, then eventually nostalgia kicks in and it's seen as an example by some.

 

And I do realise those aren't always the same people saying those different things. But it's the standard video game forum cycle, and certainly doesn't apply to Bioware only. When Fallout 2 was released, it was seen as an overly campy mission pack, now it has a place alongside Fallout 1 as series classic. Morrowind was seen as an overly simplified genre shift, now many will say it's the best Elder Scrolls game. Many see BG2 as Bioware's best, yet I'm sure back in the days it was seen as a departure from BG1's more open-ended gameplay and thus ruined the franchise's virtual tabletop game feeling.

 

The one Bioware exception seems to be ME3, perhaps because it's tainted by the ending.

Maybe for some, but I am amazingly consistent. I give very specific feedback. ME3 was actually a really good game, but they screwed it with the ending and dlc. They also made it way too bleak if you didn't have a continuing game. Other than that I actually enjoyed it and its by far my favorite ME game. Though I really did love the companion interactions with ME so its a close first or second. The reason I hate it is because the ending made no sense and was god awful. If they had just admitted it I probably wouldn't rail it so hard. But they couldn't even admit it was ****. DA2 team at least admitted the game had issues and wasn't seen as favorable by their fans. ME3 team was smug and assholes to fans.

Maybe it is because I came late into the cycle. I didn't actually experience bioware until DAO, DA2, ME1, and ME2 had already been out for a long time. I was absolutely excited for their 3rd games. They just didn't live up to the hype and unfortunately lost a lot of the luster I saw in the others. The only reason I even play DA2 is because I really love how damn snarky hawke is and overall I liked the newer less clunky combat. The rest of it is pretty meh and yeah Hawke kind of ended up being Jack Sparrow finding her way into trouble only to have dumb luck find her back out of it. I still vastly prefer DAO (even tho its clunky as **** and has some really long ass missions). That's not really true of ME though. I still prefer ME3 over ME1 or 2. Though I do like them both. I just didn't really enjoy gameplay or mechanics as much as others did. ME1 the combat kind of annoyed me, I hated the inventory system, and I hated the damn mako. I liked the story and companion interactions which is why that game is still one I like, but I haven't completed it as many times as I have ME2 or 3. ME2 I really love just how ****** badass you can be and how snarky, no fucks given shep is. I really enjoyed the story and seeing Garrus and Tali come into their own was really interesting to me. I didn't really care for them as much in ME, but ME2 changed that. Thane and Jack's stories really made an impact on me. So I really stick around for good story and companion interactions.

So really the reason ME3 is so hated by me is because of how much they ruined the story. I can deal with less than ideal gameplay, graphics, and even terrible mechanics on combat or **** UI. I can't deal with a shitty story. Also the same reason DAI got on my **** list. If you took out the story the rest of the gameplay is actually pretty decent and way improved over DAO. But it lacks in the story and while it excels at companion influence and interactions...I guess story is more important to me. So yeah amazingly consistent. Give me a story I can enjoy or gtfo.

[Elhanan]

Strange; have seen at least a few streamers/ LP's where they teared or cried during these stories. Am gonna guess that these folks, as well as those outing in hundreds of hours into them kinda like the stories told.

[taglag]

Play The Witcher 3 instead.

 

 

I have played all the witcher games, they are very good, I think the first one will always be best, of course not because it had better game engine, but I just very much liked it, and it was a very new to me concept. [ I thought the ending was lame, but other than that it was great. I replayed the heck out of it ]

 

  Witcher 2 pushed my CPU of the time, had huge optimization issues that totally turned me off, when I first played it. I got a better system [ Project red patched the Heck out of it, and it got better ], and replayed it, and it was much better, still testy in places, but better.

 

     As for Witcher 3 I know a lot of you may disagree with me, but I think it suffers from the same problems that DAI suffers from. To many missions that just have nothing to do with the main story. [  Giving me much more game, but as a completest, it can wear you out. ] 

 

    I like the extra missions, but it can reach a point just as I did in DAI where I become detached, and lose my desire to continue. I right now have Witcher 3 on back burner, it it fun, but I have just lost interest in continuing it at this time.

 

   So what I am saying is that Witcher 3 can, at least for me, and maybe others become just as boring as DAI can. But that is just my take on it, I like it, but I don't think it is a fix all, best of the best. It is just an alternative. [ It is a solo experience for the most part, has not much party playing value, and is therefore a much different experience ]

 

EDIT >>> One thing I think Witcher games do that I personally like is the Adult oriented dialogue, and event's. I like the adult choices, and content very much so I give Witcher series an A+ for this content that separate's the game from many that I have played that were just a bit to childish, I prefer the games that I play to have a more mature theme, just as I like some of my Movies to have a somewhat more adult Theme.

 

[ But I sometimes like the childish ones as well, just don't want Mary Poppins movies or games all the time ]

[Gothfather]

I can. 

 

The ability to have your character actually being more your character instead of Bioware's character. 

The ability to have the protagonist express a variety of emotions for specific situations. 

The ability to play races other than human, allowing different perspectives.

Having your inner circle able to approve and disapprove of your actions and have the game reflect that. 

Having a variety of romances, particularly ones that don't make sex mandatory but instead optional or ambiguous. 

Having level design that for the most part allowed a variety of options when it came to fighting instead of endless corridors. 

The use of the third dimension on maps(we know they are doing this one because jump jets/jetpack). 

etc. 

 

I don't agree with all the times on your list but that is the nature of subjective opinion but I would add one to your list.

 

The ability to JUMP in a bioware game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elhanan]

EDIT >>> One thing I think Witcher games do that I personally like is the Adult oriented dialogue, and event's. I like the adult choices, and content very much so I give Witcher series an A+ for this content that separate's the game from many that I have played that were just a bit to childish, I prefer the games that I play to have a more mature theme, just as I like some of my Movies to have a somewhat more adult Theme.

[ But I sometimes like the childish ones as well, just don't want Mary Poppins movies or games all the time ]

And I contend there is little adult about it at all; more like Jr HS when kids discover the shock value of such content. Adults generally learn that such content involves consequences (eg; suspended or fired at work).

For mature Players, the Hespith moments in DAO still reign as an adult way to present such content, IMO.

[RoboticWater]

And I contend there is little adult about it at all; more like Jr HS when kids discover the shock value of such content. Adults generally learn that such content involves consequences (eg; suspended or fired at work).

For mature Players, the Hespith moments in DAO still reign as an adult way to present such content, IMO.

You're basing your claims entirely on hearsay from others, so I don't think you have any grounds to contend here.You just have a completely incorrect view of the Witcher.

 

The presence of gore, sex, and vulgarity does not make the Witcher games more mature. On the contrary, I'd say that the game's maturity comes from its levity in spite of all the grotesqueness. At the end of the day, Geralt is a guy with friends he likes to drink with, a daughter he wants to protect, and a love affair he doesn't know how to fix. The magic and monsters just make things more complicated. Certainly though, the Witcher's willingness to delve into more "shocking" material and come out the other side will resonate more with an audience who are more emotionally equipped to handle such content. But the Witcher isn't a just pubescent portrayal of the world where everything just sucks and lies to you, and where the only way to win is to be just as bad. It's an ugly world, sure, but it still has hope in it.

 

That's the maturity: sometimes the world is mean and gross, but that doesn't mean you can't live in it. But that's not all the Witcher does. I could tell you about its romance which is as much about sexual attraction as it is about the romantic ideal or its treatment of power which doesn't corrupt absolutely, but augments existing turmoil.

 

Or, in fact, its portrayal of consequences.

 

I simply can't fathom how you can hold up Hespith from DA:O as a shining example of maturity and then condemn Witcher in the same breath. Nearly all of the horrors of the Witcher games have some sort of moment that grounds them, usually more so than Dragon Age. In the Witcher, many problems aren't caused by Evil or simple psychosis (as it is with Hespith), they're born out of negligence, incompetence, or internal strife–all genuine human conflicts–mixing with neutral powers to form something disastrous. More importantly, the consequences are never limited to a blown up building and a few dead civilians; the Witcher goes to great pains to show the psychological fallout of its stories. 

[Elhanan]

You're basing your claims entirely on hearsay from others, so I don't think you have any grounds to contend here.You just have a completely incorrect view of the Witcher.
 
The presence of gore, sex, and vulgarity does not make the Witcher games more mature. On the contrary, I'd say that the game's maturity comes from its levity in spite of all the grotesqueness. At the end of the day, Geralt is a guy with friends he likes to drink with, a daughter he wants to protect, and a love affair he doesn't know how to fix. The magic and monsters just make things more complicated. Certainly though, the Witcher's willingness to delve into more "shocking" material and come out the other side will resonate more with an audience who are more emotionally equipped to handle such content. But the Witcher isn't a just pubescent portrayal of the world where everything just sucks and lies to you, and where the only way to win is to be just as bad. It's an ugly world, sure, but it still has hope in it.
 
That's the maturity: sometimes the world is mean and gross, but that doesn't mean you can't live in it. But that's not all the Witcher does. I could tell you about its romance which is as much about sexual attraction as it is about the romantic ideal or its treatment of power which doesn't corrupt absolutely, but augments existing turmoil.
 
Or, in fact, its portrayal of consequences.
 
I simply can't fathom how you can hold up Hespith from DA:O as a shining example of maturity and then condemn Witcher in the same breath. Nearly all of the horrors of the Witcher games have some sort of moment that grounds them, usually more so than Dragon Age. In the Witcher, many problems aren't caused by Evil or simple psychosis (as it is with Hespith), they're born out of negligence, incompetence, or internal strife–all genuine human conflicts–mixing with neutral powers to form something disastrous. More importantly, the consequences are never limited to a blown up building and a few dead civilians; the Witcher goes to great pains to show the psychological fallout of its stories.

I am basing it on what I have seen and heard from both player and official vids. Pass.

[RoboticWater]

I am basing it on what I have seen and heard from both player and official vids. Pass.

Hence why you have no basis to claim that the Wticher games aren't mature. The most you can say is that the Witcher games are advertised and publicly presented as immature.

 

Don't pull a specific scene from DA:O and say "I like this scene better than the fabricated conception I have of the Witcher." Of course it's going to be better; you're comparing an event you went through yourself to some nebulous concept you pulled together from third parties. You're as well of comparing me to your imaginary friend.

[Elhanan]

Hence why you have no basis to claim that the Wticher games aren't mature. The most you can say is that the Witcher games are advertised and publicly presented as immature.
 
Don't pull a specific scene from DA:O and say "I like this scene better than the fabricated conception I have of the Witcher." Of course it's going to be better; you're comparing an event you went through yourself to some nebulous concept you pulled together from third parties. You're as well of comparing me to your imaginary friend.

Using an EAP type poem to describe the horrors of the Broodmothers is far more mature than depicting it. I do not have to need NPC's relieving themselves in public to understand that humans have that functionality. I do not require repetitive uses of excessive content to know such things are extant in the culture.

And if a company is using such content to promote their products, I have the right as a consumer to reject it. The Player vids show what has been implemented. Pass.

[RoboticWater]

Using an EAP type poem to describe the horrors of the Broodmothers is far more mature than depicting it. I do not have to need NPC's relieving themselves in public to understand that humans have that functionality. I do not require repetitive uses of excessive content to know such things are extant in the culture.

So you want horrors masked in euphemism? I fail to see how that would make the game more mature.

 

Maturity has far less to do with content as it does with purpose. The Witcher isn't a teaching game. An NPC that's urinating publicly isn't doing so to inform the player about wonders of peeing, it's to further a ulterior objective. In this case, such unsanitary acts are probably more for realism than they are for thematic purposes. The Witcher wants its world to have an accurate medieval atmosphere with all the dirtiness that comes with it.

 

And if your conception of the Witcher is simply "NPC's relieving themselves in public," then you've been misinformed.

 

And if a company is using such content to promote their products, I have the right as a consumer to reject it. The Player vids show what has been implemented. Pass.

Sure, you just have no right to critique it.

[Elhanan]

So you want horrors masked in euphemism? I fail to see how that would make the game more mature.
 
Maturity has far less to do with content as it does with purpose. The Witcher isn't a teaching game. An NPC that's urinating publicly isn't doing so to inform the player about wonders of peeing, it's to further a ulterior objective. In this case, such unsanitary acts are probably more for realism than they are for thematic purposes. The Witcher wants its world to have an accurate medieval atmosphere with all the dirtiness that comes with it.
 
And if your conception of the Witcher is simply "NPC's relieving themselves in public," then you've been misinformed.
 
Sure, you just have no right to critique it.

I can criticize it as a product that does not meet my needs. One does not need to purchase a pizza w/ anchovies to know it may not be palatable for them. I crit the ads for having excessive content. And I do not purchase the game because such content cannot be easily avoided like in other games (eg; ME3, DAI).

[FKA_Servo]

Sure, you just have no right to critique it.

Have fun banging your head against this particular wall. He has incredible stamina.

[RoboticWater]

I can criticize it as a product that does not meet my needs. One does not need to purchase a pizza w/ anchovies to know it may not be palatable for them.

Sure, but then don't go around spouting on about how pepperoni is so much more mature than anchovies.
 

I crit the ads for having excessive content. And I do not purchase the game because such content cannot be easily avoided like in other games (eg; ME3, DAI).

Yes, but you didn't say "I don't like the Witcher," you said "and I contend there is little adult about it at all." Having not played any of the Witcher games yourself, you have no basis to make blanket statements like that.
 

Have fun banging your head against this particular wall. He has incredible stamina.

Oh Servo, I argue with Sylvius. Banging my head against walls is what I do best.

[Lady Artifice]

Oh Servo, I argue with Sylvius. Banging my head against walls is what I do best.

This is going to be a very similar experience.

[Elhanan]

Sure, but then don't go around spouting on about how pepperoni is so much more mature than anchovies.
 
Yes, but you didn't say "I don't like the Witcher," you said "and I contend there is little adult about it at all." Having not played any of the Witcher games yourself, you have no basis to make blanket statements like that.
 
Oh Servo, I argue with Sylvius. Banging my head against walls is what I do best.

No, I stated that such content is not adult; read the context. TW3 is simply a game I cannot, nor will not play.

[RoboticWater]

No, I stated that such content is not adult.

Yes, when I quoted you verbatim, this is what I disputed. I don't care about whether or not you can or should play the game, I just want to address that specific critique.

 

If you say that the Witcher's content is not adult, then I disagree. Either you have an ill-formed understanding of the Witcher or I believe your definition of "adult" is incorrect.

[Cyonan]

No, I stated that such content is not adult; read the context. TW3 is simply a game I cannot, nor will not play.

 

and it's fine if you don't want to play The Witcher 3 because it's not your type of game.

 

However when you criticize it, I'm not going to hold your opinion in very high regard because you've never played it. Simply having seen people play it on YouTube just isn't the same as actually playing it.

 

Most of the content you talk about being "excessive" isn't all that worse than in Dragon Age. They don't throw boobs in your face just for the hell of it and it only happens during romance scenes. The gore isn't gratuitous for the sake of it like a game such as Doom, and Dragon Age is a game where your character can literally be covered in blood.

 

Language is probably the worst of it, but I'd say it's more immature to act like adults don't say those words. The game isn't using them every other word like some 14 year old trying to sound like a tough guy, but it throws them in to the level I find realistic for adults to use.

[Elhanan]

Yes, when I quoted you verbatim, this is what I disputed. I don't care about whether or not you can or should play the game, I just want to address that specific critique.
 
If you say that the Witcher's content is not adult, then I disagree. Either you have an ill-formed understanding of the Witcher or I believe your definition of "adult" is incorrect.

'It' was and is ref the so-called adult content, and TW3 includes it. And there is little maturity in using so much of this kind of content; like the Jr HS mentioned earlier.

But believe what you will; tis easier to set the Ignore function again as advised.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

BioWare Defense Force up in this b**ch!!!

[Elhanan]

and it's fine if you don't want to play The Witcher 3 because it's not your type of game.
 
However when you criticize it, I'm not going to hold your opinion in very high regard because you've never played it. Simply having seen people play it on YouTube just isn't the same as actually playing it.
 
Most of the content you talk about being "excessive" isn't all that worse than in Dragon Age. They don't throw boobs in your face just for the hell of it and it only happens during romance scenes. The gore isn't gratuitous for the sake of it like a game such as Doom, and Dragon Age is a game where your character can literally be covered in blood.
 
Language is probably the worst of it, but I'd say it's more immature to act like adults don't say those words. The game isn't using them every other word like some 14 year old trying to sound like a tough guy, but it throws them in to the level I find realistic for adults to use.

Sorry, but the language pervades the banter, dialogue, and can even be found in the card game. This is seen and heard in both official and player materials. So is the nudity, sexual content, etc. Since such content is made available, it is open to criticism, and I continue to do so.

I do not have to purchase a lemon of a car, spoiled fruit, games with objectionable content to critique it. This is the freedom of being a consumer.

And in DAI, such content is mostly avoidable; not commonly tossed about by the NPC's. The same cannot be said of TW3.