497 réponses à ce sujet

[RoboticWater]

Most of the content you talk about being "excessive" isn't all that worse than in Dragon Age. They don't throw boobs in your face just for the hell of it and it only happens during romance scenes. The gore isn't gratuitous for the sake of it like a game such as Doom, and Dragon Age is a game where your character can literally be covered in blood.

I'd even argue that saying the gore in DOOM is gratuitous just for the sake of it is still missing some of the point. Obviously, DOOM isn't making a deep point, but its excess does lend to a degree of catharsis, and melodrama has always been a good way to make a point.

 

'It' was and is ref the so-called adult content, and TW3 includes it. And there is little maturity in using so much of this kind of content; like the Jr HS mentioned earlier.

YES, this is precisely what I've been debating this whole time! I don't know how you're finding confusion into my posts.

 

I don't believe that The Witcher 3's content is immature (as I thoroughly outlined earlier). However, I want to understand why you believe it is and why you thing DA:O is so much more mature. I've gathered that you don't hold profanity, gore, and sex in high regard, but I don't understand why you think that they preclude maturity.
 

But believe what you will; tis easier to set the Ignore function again as advised.

No. I won't shut out another's ideas simply because I disagree with them. There are very few people who I genuinely believe do not contribute to good discussion, and it is very tough to get on that list.

 

I'd also hate to let someone to criticize a game I like in public without getting a chance to argue contrarily. I woulond't want anyone who reads your. comments to be misinformed.

[correctamundo]

The gore isn't gratuitous for the sake of it like a game such as Doom,

 

I kind of felt like the whoreson thing was tangent on the ridiculous though. I suppose the scene was meant to shock but all I could do was laugh at it. It is an entertaining game but it sure has its problems as well.

[Iakus]

 

I don't believe that The Witcher 3's content is immature (as I thoroughly outlined earlier). However, I want to understand why you believe it is and why you thing DA:O is so much more mature. I've gathered that you don't hold profanity, gore, and sex in high regard, but I don't understand why you think that they preclude maturity.
 

I can't speak for Elhanan, but to me a little bit of any of those things (profanity, gore, sex) goes a long way.  A touch of it, done right, can add gravitas to a scene. But it is all too easy to go overboard.  And when that happens, the game feels less mature for it.  At which point the scene would be better off without having it at all (Thank the Maker for the gore toggle!).

 

And to me CDPR goes way overboard.  Sometimes to the point of caricature.  

[Cyonan]

Sorry, but the language pervades the banter, dialogue, and can even be found in the card game. This is seen and heard in both official and player materials. So is the nudity, sexual content, etc. Since such content is made available, it is open to criticism, and I continue to do so.

I do not have to purchase a lemon of a car, spoiled fruit, games with objectionable content to critique it. This is the freedom of being a consumer.

And in DAI, such content is mostly avoidable; not commonly tossed about by the NPC's. The same cannot be said of TW3.

 

I never said don't criticize something. I said your opinion isn't likely to be held in high regard because you're talking about something you've never played. You can tell me all about how you've watched official and player videos on it, but that's just not the same thing.

 

How do I know this? Because you're wrong about the game's content. You talk about how abundant the nudity, sexual content, etc. are in the game but the vast majority of the game is spend either in combat, traversing the world on horseback, or talking to clothed individuals. The only thing I noted as being worse than Dragon Age is the language, but I disagree on it being immature because I don't feel it's overused.

 

So feel free to criticize, but know that we're free to point out misinformation or disagree with your criticisms.

[Iakus]

 

Most of the content you talk about being "excessive" isn't all that worse than in Dragon Age. They don't throw boobs in your face just for the hell of it and it only happens during romance scenes. The gore isn't gratuitous for the sake of it like a game such as Doom, and Dragon Age is a game where your character can literally be covered in blood.

 

"romance" scenes" or "sex scenes"?  There is a difference.

 

 

Language is probably the worst of it, but I'd say it's more immature to act like adults don't say those words. The game isn't using them every other word like some 14 year old trying to sound like a tough guy, but it throws them in to the level I find realistic for adults to use.

I've played TW1 and part of TW2.  Sounds like 14 year old tough guys to me.

[Cyonan]

I'd even argue that saying the gore in DOOM is gratuitous just for the sake of it is still missing some of the point. Obviously, DOOM isn't making a deep point, but its excess does lend to a degree of catharsis, and melodrama has always been a good way to make a point.

 

True, games like DOOM do have a sort of catharsis to them.

 

Though I'd still say it's immature about its gore(which is probably how I should have worded that). Just that it doesn't matter because I just chainsawed that guy in half and a dozen more have lined up for the slaughter.

 

I mean, it's pure juvenile fun but that's exactly what I want out of a game like that. I don't need every game to be super mature.

 

"romance" scenes" or "sex scenes"?  There is a difference.

 

I've played TW1 and part of TW2.  Sounds like 14 year old tough guys to me.

 

I do specifically mean sex scenes.

 

I've not played TW1 so I'll not comment on it, but I didn't find TW2 to be bad at all. There was plenty of casual swearing, but that's something I see a lot of from adults unless I'm in a professional setting.

 

Of course, still more language than Dragon Age. I wont deny that one.

[RoboticWater]

I can't speak for Elhanan, but to me a little bit of any of those things (profanity, gore, sex) goes a long way.  A touch of it, done right, can add gravitas to a scene. But it is all too easy to go overboard.  And when that happens, the game feels less mature for it.  At which point the scene would be better off without having it at all (Thank the Maker for the gore toggle!).
 
And to me CDPR goes way overboard.  Sometimes to the point of caricature.

Sometimes a caricature is the best way to get an idea across. One of the most powerful depictions of murder that I've ever read is in Chronicle of a Death Foretold, and that book goes out of its way to depict the titular death twice in the most gruesome manner possible.
 
I can agree that mileage varies, but an excess of sex and profanity doesn't remove the depth otherwise held by these characters. Like I said, as absurd as The Witcher 3 is, the narrative always grounds itself at the end of the day. 
 

"romance" scenes" or "sex scenes"?  There is a difference.

Witcher has both.
 

I've played TW1 and part of TW2.  Sounds like 14 year old tough guys to me.

OK, let's not judge The Witcher series mostly on TW1's dialog. And I'll admit that TW2 can be a bit much at times as well, but I think CDPR really honed their dialog in 3.

[Elhanan]

I never said don't criticize something. I said your opinion isn't likely to be held in high regard because you're talking about something you've never played. You can tell me all about how you've watched official and player videos on it, but that's just not the same thing.
 
How do I know this? Because you're wrong about the game's content. You talk about how abundant the nudity, sexual content, etc. are in the game but the vast majority of the game is spend either in combat, traversing the world on horseback, or talking to clothed individuals. The only thing I noted as being worse than Dragon Age is the language, but I disagree on it being immature because I don't feel it's overused.
 
So feel free to criticize, but know that we're free to point out misinformation or disagree with your criticisms.

Not played, but watched about the first ten hrs of LP's. More than enough info gleaned during that time to know the game is not for me. And they may have even added a Pause function in the next patch, too.

[RoboticWater]

True, games like DOOM do have a sort of catharsis to them.

 

Though I'd still say it's immature about its gore(which is probably how I should have worded that). Just that it doesn't matter because I just chainsawed that guy in half and a dozen more have lined up for the slaughter.

 

I mean, it's pure juvenile fun but that's exactly what I want out of a game like that. I don't need every game to be super mature..

Indeed. Though I suppose my point should be that DOOM's immaturity isn't born out of teenage edginess, but a deliberate design choice made by intelligent adults. Much like the Witcher, "immature" content like excessive nudity and gore shouldn't detract from good writing or good design if that content was deliberately inserted for deeper purpose.

[von uber]

Not played, but watched about the first ten hrs of LP's. More than enough info gleaned during that time to know the game is not for me. And they may have even added a Pause function in the next patch, too.

 

Ten hours? Sounds like the people who want to ban porn, but need to watch all of it just to make sure of how bad it is.

"Look Martha, look at how she bounces her boobs around! Look! There she is again, look at them! Pure filth...  pure.. filth.just.. look at them.. jiggling."

[Iakus]

Indeed. Though I suppose my point should be that DOOM's immaturity isn't born out of teenage edginess, but a deliberate design choice made by intelligent adults. Much like the Witcher, "immature" content like excessive nudity and gore shouldn't detract from good writing or good design if that content was deliberately inserted for deeper purpose.

Being "excessive" by its very nature detracts from the experience.  And if it was deliberately put in, then it was a poor design choice.

[Iakus]

Ten hours? Sounds like the people who want to ban porn, but need to watch all of it just to make sure of how bad it is.

"Look Martha, look at how she bounces her boobs around! Look! There she is again, look at them! Pure filth...  pure.. filth.just.. look at them.. jiggling."

So if he doesn't experience the game he doesn't know what he's talking about and needs to shut up.

 

But if he does actually do his homework he's...what point are you trying to make?  Let's just go with "Something Bad" and also needs to shut up...

[Elhanan]

Not trying to start this debate again here. Someone defended such content, and I oppose it. Done.

[Cyonan]

Not played, but watched about the first ten hrs of LP's. More than enough info gleaned during that time to know the game is not for me. And they may have even added a Pause function in the next patch, too.

 

I've never called into question if the game is for you, because it's clearly not.

 

What I am calling into question is the accuracy of your criticisms(which is different from saying you shouldn't be allowed to make them). You can talk about your watching 10 hours of the game all you want, but after having actually played the game for 50+ hours I'm just not seeing what you're talking about.

 

Being "excessive" by its very nature detracts from the experience.  And if it was deliberately put in, then it was a poor design choice.

 

To use the Doom example again though, the excessive gore actually adds to the experience. Doom at its core is a game about excess. You're a space marine using big guns to slaughter hundreds of big aliens.

 

Sure people can call it immature, but it's supposed to be immature fun and like Robot said, it's not born out of some teenage edginess but rather a deliberate design by a group of talented game developers who are all adults.

[RoboticWater]

Being "excessive" by its very nature detracts from the experience.  And if it was deliberately put in, then it was a poor design choice.

How so? If you want to cut hairs on the meaning of "excessive," sure, anything that is "too much" is bad by definition. In that case, I don't believe that The Witcher or DOOM is excessive at all, merely "exceeding of the norm," to good effect.

 

DOOM's level of gore adds a degree of catharsis and visceral feedback to combat. In the most recent installment, I think it also highlights how absurdly dangerous it is to mess with the powers of Hell.

 

I think Witcher's ambient use of vulgarity perfectly fits the grimy medieval atmosphere, it's intentional implementation gore highlights the absurd fantasy that is monsters and magic and the disgusting truth of combat, and it's casual portrayal of sex draws a good distinction between Geralt's physical desires and true love.

[Iakus]

How so? If you want to cut hairs on the meaning of "excessive," sure, anything that is "too much" is bad by definition. In that case, I don't believe that The Witcher or DOOM is excessive at all, merely "exceeding of the norm," to good effect.

 

DOOM's level of gore adds a degree of catharsis and visceral feedback to combat. In the most recent installment, I think it also highlights how absurdly dangerous it is to mess with the powers of Hell.

 

I think Witcher's ambient use of vulgarity perfectly fits the grimy medieval atmosphere, it's intentional implementation gore highlights the absurd fantasy that is monsters and magic and the disgusting truth of combat, and it's casual portrayal of sex draws a good distinction between Geralt's physical desires and true love.

And I think the ambient use of vulgarity is simply numbing over time.  A Precision F-Strike at the proper moment can convey the gravity and tension in a situation that a carpet F-Bombing will simply be lost in.

 

Gore, well you're right that it provides visceral feedback.  But there is a point where it simply gets gratuitous.  Games are supposed to make people have fun, not queasy.

 

Sex?  Sure, I suppose it could be that.  But based on what I've seen, I suspect the reason is closer to "LOOK GUYS!!!! BEWBS!!!"

[slimgrin]

And I think the ambient use of vulgarity is simply numbing over time.  A Precision F-Strike at the proper moment can convey the gravity and tension in a situation that a carpet F-Bombing will simply be lost in.

 

Gore, well you're right that it provides visceral feedback.  But there is a point where it simply gets gratuitous.  Games are supposed to make people have fun, not queasy.

 

Sex?  Sure, I suppose it could be that.  But based on what I've seen, I suspect the reason is closer to "LOOK GUYS!!!! BEWBS!!!"

 

You're missing the point big time, but adult content is definitely not for you. 

[Iakus]

You're missing the point big time, but adult content is definitely not for you. 

Not at all.  I simply believe that adult content should be the seasoning.  Not the main course.

[RoboticWater]

And I think the ambient use of vulgarity is simply numbing over time.  A Precision F-Strike at the proper moment can convey the gravity and tension in a situation that a carpet F-Bombing will simply be lost in.

Numbing is good. That's the point. In this dingy medieval world no one, least of all Geralt, cares about profanity.
 

Gore, well you're right that it provides visceral feedback.  But there is a point where it simply gets gratuitous.  Games are supposed to make people have fun, not queasy.

And this is where the mileage varies. If you literally can't play a game because of gore then there might be a problem, but intentionally arousing appropriate visceral reactions in players is almost always a good thing in my book. In any case, I (and apparently many others who praise TW3 like it was the second coming) didn't find the gore to be prohibitive.
 

Sex?  Sure, I suppose it could be that.  But based on what I've seen, I suspect the reason is closer to "LOOK GUYS!!!! BEWBS!!!"

I will admit, that's true sometimes, but like I said, there's still meaning behind the sex and romance scenes. That doesn't go away just because sex sells.

[Cyonan]

Not at all.  I simply believe that adult content should be the seasoning.  Not the main course.

 

I would argue that in the case of TW3 and DOOM that it's not the main course.

[slimgrin]

I would argue that in the case of TW3 and DOOM that it's not the main course.

 

Exactly. I get that kind of strong or bawdy content is offputting to some people, but it shouldn't be automatically discounted and labeled as immature.  

[Elhanan]

Exactly. I get that kind of strong or bawdy content is offputting to some people, but it shouldn't be automatically discounted and labeled as immature.

It isn't always, DAO is a fine example of overall mature content in a game for mature players, IMO. But for me, what I have seen and read of TW3, it is excessive, so I pass on the cost and experience. No need to purchase the product if I know I will not enjoy it.

[The Hierophant]

I hope MEA's and DA4's town/city hubs are designed like TW3's. It would be nice to finally see some reactive npcs with new animations who are also programmed to perform various tasks throught an ingame day/night cycle.

 

Novigrad, or Oxenfurt are what Val Royeaux should have been like. Hopefully Mirathous isn't a big letdown.

[10K]

As someone who've just gotten into the Witcher, I have to say everything that has contained nudity or gore seemed to be implemented to get the point across and to gauge a reaction out of the player. I think CDPR did exceptional. The world Geralt lives in is gritty, why shouldn't that world convey realism. This game is quite refreshing. The story actully elicited emotion from me.

Warning small spoilers for witcher, if you haven't played it go do so now, it's epic!!


In the quest get junior, I have never felt as disgusted at a videogame villain as I did when I saw the mutilated bodies of women in junior's room. In that moment if CDPR didn't convey junior as they did, I think that scene would have had less of an impact on me.

End spoiler

Both gore and nudity are tools that can be used in an awesome way. So far I think Witcher is doing a wonderful job especially being based within medevial era, that's just how life was. Realism trumps censorship, if devs need excessive nudity, or gore to get a point across by all means. The only problem I have are the fans whom only reason they play these games is because of nudity. The fans whom ask specifically for nudity or more sexual encounters because they believe it makes the game mature.

[KaiserShep]

I hope MEA's and DA4's town/city hubs are designed like TW3's. It would be nice to finally see some reactive npcs with new animations who are also programmed to perform various tasks throught an ingame day/night cycle.

 

Novigrad, or Oxenfurt are what Val Royeaux should have been like. Hopefully Mirathous isn't a big letdown.

 

 

It's nice to see reactive NPC's, but I admit that not being able to run them over with the horse was a bit of a letdown. That kid kept running in circles and no luck.