24 réponses à ce sujet

[kal_reegar]

be more like the witcher 3, be more like DA: origins, be more like fallut new vegas... I don't care, with DA:I you did a really good job. Be yourselves.

 

You just need to avoid two things:

 

1) Time magic and time travels. Time travel is THE MOST dangerous thing for a game/movie/book. It's almost impossible to handle it correctly. And if you don't handle it perfeclty, the Lore is completely, definitively ******.

You don't need time magic and time travels to create a good story.

What happen in Redcliffe was a funny strange thing, with a lot of possible explanation. Let it go, and forget about it.

 

 

2) Enemies that can't be defeated conventionally (with good old sword&magic combo, or an army of people of good will).

Solas is a great character, but he's becoming too powerful. He's becoming a God, capable of shaping the very fabric of the world. There is nothing more powerful than that.

Yeah, dealing with a mega-ultra-superpowerful magical villain is cool (for a 12 years old, especially) but the risk here is "the crucibile risk": to kill a too overpowered villain, you'll need a deus ex machina, a super-powerful magical weapon that will solve all your problems. Or super-mega-powerful allies (other Gods? Titans? The maker? Come on... leave these cosmogonigal myths where they should stay. In books and tales)

 

 

Don't take this path. Or soon you will need to put DEUS ex machina everywhere. And deus ex machina are BAD.

We'll have to deal with Solas, ok, cool, the greastes threat ever. But after that, go back to more "normal" villains. Qunari, Darkspawn, Magisters. You can't deal with the greatest threat ever every 10 years, it's ridicoulus.

So, please, please don't introduce active Gods and demiGods (after or with Solas) in the world of THEDAS. Don't betray the Lore.

[Cz-99]

I'm guessin' you ain't gon' like the next game when the rest of the Elven 'gods' get released, huh? Maybe it'll just be a side-mission, or something.

[straykat]

Funny, you tell them to "Be themselves", when DAI is pretty derivative itself.

 

And the last time they tried to be more original (DA2), all the manchildren cried how it wasn't heroic enough and they called death threats on Jennifer Hepler.

 

The reason why people suggest Witcher 3 is only because they managed to create an open world and didn't sacrifice their quests in the process. If you want Bioware to be true to themselves, this is what they should've done too. CDProjekt is doing a better Bioware than Bioware now.

[Cz-99]

Edit: Whoops.

[kal_reegar]

I'm guessin' you ain't gon' like the next game when the rest of the Elven 'gods' get released, huh? Maybe it'll just be a side-mission, or something.

 

If it is a "one shot" threat, I can live with it.

Let's deal with the most dangerous, powerful beings Thedas has ever know. Ok, let's do it.

But after that, Bioware need to stop the "escalation". There can't always be a new enemy, more powerful than the previous one. I can't immagine something more powerful (in a fantasy-medieval lore) than a uber-mage capable to destroy/shape the reality.

What's next? The snake of the end of times, that will swallow the worlds and kill the Gods too? Like Alduin? I hope not. I hope they'll go back to something more "realistic".

 

 

And the last time they tried to be more original (DA2), all the manchildren cried how it wasn't heroic enough and they called death threats on Jennifer Hepler.

 

The reason why people suggest Witcher 3 is only because they managed to create an open world and didn't sacrifice their quests in the process. If you want Bioware to be true to themselves, this is what they should've done too. CDProjekt is doing a better Bioware than Bioware now.

 

The idea behind DA2 was brilliant.

The realization, not so much. But the idea was brilliant. And chapter1 and chapter 2, very very good. Chapter 3 ruined everything, so rushed.

 

Witcher 3 is a great game, but imho the main story is the weakest part.

You need to help the child of the profecy to close the Space Fridge and fight space elves? I think that's garbage. All these fantasy apocaliptic threat are boring and ridiculous, imho.

On the other hand, the main story of Hearth of Stone is a true masterpiece.

So yes, learn from CDP, but they are far from perfection too.

[Apollexander]

I dont like too much time travels either, but I could be content with a little, like flavour.

Is a grey warden a deus ex machina for defeating an Archdemon?

[kal_reegar]

 

 

Is a grey warden a deus ex machina for defeating an Archdemon?

 

No, because they're introduced immediately.

Bioware said to you in the first hour of DA:O: hey, there is an archdemon, but there are GW that can kill him.

 

The Elven Gods can be killed? Mythal, the only one that we know about, was killed by other Gods (and not permanetly). The other Gods were imprisoned by another God, Solas.

So how do you kill/defeat a God without being a God?

The Lore doesnt' tell you.

So, the risk of deus ex machina is almost inevitable. Almost.

But if they continue on this path (ore and more powerful enemies) it will be inevitable, imho.

[GoldenGail3]

And one more thing,

 

Stap messing up my headcount of my Warden please, leave them alone 100% in the next game.

[Gileadan]

No, because they're introduced immediately.

Bioware said to you in the first hour of DA:O: hey, there is an archdemon, but there are GW that can kill him.

 

The Elven Gods can be killed? Mythal, the only one that we know about, was killed by other Gods (and not permanetly). The other Gods were imprisoned by another God, Solas.

So how do you kill/defeat a God without being a God?

The Lore doesnt' tell you.

So, the risk of deus ex machina is almost inevitable. Almost.

But if they continue on this path (ore and more powerful enemies) it will be inevitable, imho.

By becoming a god yourself or by helping an allied character to attain godhood. (Hot candidate: Morrigan - all hail the future God-Empress of Thedas!)

 

Alternatives: weepy redemption scene after which Solas decides to not go through with his plan, or some even bigger threat makes Solas sacrifice himself / expend his godhood (and returning to "normal") to avert it.

 

Or maybe some shiny little spirit will pop up and tell you that Solas is the solution to the problem that mundanes inevitably discover magic and use it for evil purposes, so every 50,000 years the veil goes boom and resets the playing field.

[kal_reegar]

 

By becoming a god yourself or by helping an allied character to attain godhood. (Hot candidate: Morrigan - all hail the future God-Empress of Thedas!)

 

 

Yes, and after you've introduced gods or demi-gods with the power to destroy/reshape the Reality, battling in the sky for the destiny of the world... what's next? You can't go back telling story of how a GW saved Amaranthine or Ferelden from a big monster. How do you convince the player that what he's doing is important?

You'll need to move the game from Thedas to the Andromeda galaxy

Imho, introducing all these overpowered characters is the perfect way to destroy any Lore. A hero is nothing compared to them. A nation is nothing compared to them. An army is nothing compared to them. After confronting a God (and possibly becoming a God), everything else you do seems small, irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

Alternatives: weepy redemption scene after which Solas decides to not go through with his plan, or some even bigger threat makes Solas sacrifice himself / expend his godhood (and returning to "normal") to avert it.

 

weepey redemption would make the entire game a filler.

And a bigger threat... see? Escalation. You'll need a bigger threat every time. You will turn a solid, "realistic" (well balanced between magic, politics, war etc) dark fantasy videogame into dragon ball.

[Gileadan]

weepey redemption would make the entire game a filler.

And a bigger threat... see? Escalation. You'll need a bigger threat every time. You will turn a solid, "realistic" (well balanced between magic, politics, war etc) dark fantasy videogame into dragon ball.

Well, yes, we do... but weren't we headed in that direction ever since Gaider left and those "ohmagerd epic" moments in Descent ("we are inside a reaper titan, Shepard Inquisitor") and Trespasser with the entire Solas thing? We need at the very least one more escalation to cancel out the current one, or an eluvian to some other world or time.

[kal_reegar]

Well, yes, we do... but weren't we headed in that direction ever since Gaider left and those "ohmagerd epic" moments in Descent ("we are inside a reaper titan, Shepard Inquisitor") and Trespasser with the entire Solas thing? We need at the very least one more escalation to cancel out the current one, or an eluvian to some other world or time.

 

so it seems, sadly.

 

but there is a "smart" way to handle Solas, and a (imho) stupid/dangerous way.

 

the smart way is the "DA.I way":

1. stop Solas before he can turn the world upside down permanently (the other Gods remains wherever they are, the veil continue to exist etc).

2. find a brillant/smart way to stop him conventionally, using details that we already knew about (maybe he's weaker into the Fade? maybe the darkspawn ability to reincarnate can be used against him? etc)

 

The stupid/dangerous way is the "Mass Effect 3 way":

1. let him change everything we know about Thedas because it's cool and cinematic: the Gods are back, the veil is gone etc. Ok, cool, except the fact that after that there is no longer a Dragon Age. It's something new.

2. stop him with a super-weapon (or a super-hero) that you'll need to deal with in the future, probably with another super-super-weapon or super-super-hero.

 

And after Solas, the Demi-God who tried to re-shape the World, has been stopped, go back to less over-powered enemies.

[cJohnOne]

I'd like to see what happens if Solas is sucessful in bringing down the Veil. 

[kal_reegar]

I'd like to see what happens if Solas is sucessful in bringing down the Veil. 

 

ME3 ending.

Thedas will be so unrecognizable that for the writers/developers will be a lot easier to create another setting/lore, than go on with the previous one.

[AFA]

I'm guessin' you ain't gon' like the next game when the rest of the Elven 'gods' get released, huh? Maybe it'll just be a side-mission, or something.

 

Well, it could certainly end up like the Mage-Templar War and be resolved in the first act with little consequence like DAI did.

 

 

Funny, you tell them to "Be themselves", when DAI is pretty derivative itself.

 

And the last time they tried to be more original (DA2), all the manchildren cried how it wasn't heroic enough and they called death threats on Jennifer Hepler.

 

The reason why people suggest Witcher 3 is only because they managed to create an open world and didn't sacrifice their quests in the process. If you want Bioware to be true to themselves, this is what they should've done too. CDProjekt is doing a better Bioware than Bioware now.

 

Yep. Said countless times that DAI was one big reaction to DA2 and they tried to do everything in the opposite direction for the sequel. With the success of the Witcher 3, i imagine DA4 won't be quite as big of a Skyrim knockoff.

 

CDProjekt, Larian, and Obsidian are all being better Biowares. right now. Japan is even releasing some great western-esque RPGs, like Dragon's Dogma and Nier. At this point, even Beamdog is on their way up

 

As neutered as the atmosphere in DAI was, I'm kind of afraid that BW will over-compensate and go full grimdark in DA4 

[panzerwzh]

Well, it could certainly end up like the Mage-Templar War and be resolved in the first act with little consequence like DAI did.

 

 

 

Yep. Said countless times that DAI was one big reaction to DA2 and they tried to do everything in the opposite direction for the sequel. With the success of the Witcher 3, i imagine DA4 won't be quite as big of a Skyrim knockoff.

 

CDProjekt, Larian, and Obsidian are all being better Biowares. right now. Japan is even releasing some great western-esque RPGs, like Dragon's Dogma and Nier. At this point, even Beamdog is on their way up

 

As neutered as the atmosphere in DAI was, I'm kind of afraid that BW will over-compensate and go full grimdark in DA4 

I would totally buy DA4 if it is an 80% TW3 knockoff with similar attention to details and storytelling like this:

[Paragon Aeducan]

The concept that a normal character can even beat a Solas is like a lvl 100 would get beat by a lvl 1 in an MMO. While I do like to know more about the godlike beings I'd rather not fight them as I should be crushed. Instead it would be interesting to fight actual wars like Orlais vs Ferelden, Dwarves vs Darkspawn etc. in huge battles much like in the Total War series, instead of taking out 20 enemies at a time.

 

And back to Solas, I don't know half the things he can do but his ability to freeze anyone seems op. Just how are you supposed to beat an opponent that will instantly kill you if you get close? I could see a scenario were there would be intervention from some higher power (Titans, Maker, who knows) who fights Solas and manages to seal some of his powers away somewhere. Solas reverts to his "base" form and then becomes beatable by the player until he finds his powers. But it would seem like too much to defeat him while he's this powerful.

[vertigomez]

I kind of assumed that if we were to defeat Solas, it would either be 1) he gives up, or 2) we outsmart the trickster and "bind" him somehow, in the same way that he dealt with the Evunaris. I never assumed that we'd level up, whack him with a weapon, and that would be that.

[krishachaos]

Maybe they will do a throwback to the Black Isle days - You play as someone who discovers that they are a half god (solas and Inq's kid?) because of some evil baddie wanting to use your unknown godly powers to do something terrible.  You fight and kill him - end DA4, set up for you to then go and stop Solas in DA5, or in some massive DLC from DA4

[Captain Wiseass]

Corypheus was already at least a demigod (mega-powerful ancient mage with an immortality trick), and we killed him. So that horse is already out of the barn.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Maybe they will do a throwback to the Black Isle days - You play as someone who discovers that they are a half god (solas and Inq's kid?)

 

I look forward to finding out how Solas impregnated my male Qunari.

[GoldenGail3]

 
Yep. Said countless times that DAI was one big reaction to DA2 and they tried to do everything in the opposite direction for the sequel. With the success of the Witcher 3, i imagine DA4 won't be quite as big of a Skyrim knockoff.
 
CDProjekt, Larian, and Obsidian are all being better Biowares. right now. Japan is even releasing some great western-esque RPGs, like Dragon's Dogma and Nier. At this point, even Beamdog is on their way up
 
As neutered as the atmosphere in DAI was, I'm kind of afraid that BW will over-compensate and go full grimdark in DA4

That isn't the worse thing that DA4 could be though...

[silkypumpkin]

Don't take this path. Or soon you will need to put DEUS ex machina everywhere. And deus ex machina are BAD.
We'll have to deal with Solas, ok, cool, the greastes threat ever. But after that, go back to more "normal" villains. Qunari, Darkspawn, Magisters. You can't deal with the greatest threat ever every 10 years, it's ridicoulus.

 
i have a feeling Solas will not be the villain for just the next game, but more of an overarching "this bad thing is coming" that could go on for a few games.  i think he will show up a bit, like flemeth in DA:O and DA2, just enough to tease you and provide some drama/info/direction but not just fighting him like the bad guy.  he did say his plans will take a few years, but whats a few years to an ancient elf, 20, 50, 100 years?  we have no way of knowing.  I think the next game will focus more on the tevinter/qunari war, with the inquisition in the background somewhere gathering followers to combat solas later on.  

[animedreamer]

I'd like to see what happens if Solas is sucessful in bringing down the Veil. 

We need our own club, the people who want to see the world Restored to it's original state (Original as far as the Elves are concerned anyway.)

[animedreamer]

I look forward to finding out how Solas impregnated my male Qunari.

Do you really need to ask? It's Ancient Elven Magic!