178 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

 

 

Racism is a human issue and should not be taken so lightly as thinking that wanting to dress up in alien clothing arbitrarily makes one a non-racist.

 

It's exactly why I think the only people who would call this racism don't know much about it.

 

Come back to me when you have to fight skinheads or get called a slur and have to fight multiple kids growing up. Or have to see your parents being insulted too..which is worse. Or something. Don't tell me playing video games suddenly gives you insight into being racially slandered. I understand people want to learn more about that, but equating some alien selection in a game just cheapens what real people go through. Like they identify with it now... give me a break. It shows just how little they actually care about it.

[Hammerstorm]

It's exactly why I think the only people who would call this racism don't know much about it.

 

Come back to me when you have to fight skinheads or get called a slur and have to fight multiple kids growing up. Or have to see your parents being insulted too..which is worse. Or something. Don't tell me playing video games suddenly gives you insight into being racially slandered. I understand people want to learn more about that, but equating some alien selection in a game just cheapens what real people go through. Like they identify with it now... give me a break. It shows just how little they actually care about it.

 

Does playing a redguard in skyrim counts? All thoses racist Nords! 

 

But seriously, I agree.

[Cheviot]

I want to play as a Krogan. I dont want to play as another Shephard with no personality.

 

Bioware with all their progressive PC banter still will only allow you to play as a white man/woman with different shade of color and I think its backwards thinking and not progressive at all. Especially when we already played 3 games as a boring human already!

Considering that Bioware are the only devs doing games with Krogan in them, you should really be accusing the rest of the industry. 

[Almostfaceman]

I want to play as a Krogan. I dont want to play as another Shephard with no personality.

 

Bioware with all their progressive PC banter still will only allow you to play as a white man/woman with different shade of color and I think its backwards thinking and not progressive at all. Especially when we already played 3 games as a boring human already!

 

It's no big deal. 

 

[RoboticWater]

Well, I think that would depend on the player - and the character. Asari, turians, humans, etc aren't completely monolithic. And I do think those mechanical problems could be solved or mitigated easily enough, especially if the game are designed to accommodate them. Which, I'll grant, is not the direction they're going. And I know enough about the game development process to know that I'm in no position to make silly sweeping pronouncements about content they could cut to free up precious zots.

I just don't think the game would benefit enough from multiple race to justify those accommodations.
 

Well - I don't think they're being lazy, and I'm not sure I'm acting particularly entitled (I don't think I'm as fervent or intractable as the hyperactive poster who I was reluctantly agreeing with, either). I do think it's a valuable feature for RP, but I'm also at peace with the reality that ME hasn't really ever been that game.

I should have specified: you're not the problem here. I'm more than willing to have a nice debate over multiple races, but I'm not going to sit through anyone's BS argument about BioWare being lazy/racist/incompetent. That's not a defensible argument; it's just rude.
 

I don't understand why some posters (not you particularly) passionately and vehemently argue against its inclusion though. I had that fight months ago over many, many pages, and I still think it's very weird.

There are others that genuinely believe that multiple races would be an inherent detriment to the franchise. I can sympathize with the view that Mass Effect is a series about the human perspective. The option of multiple races would change that. I don't particularly care, but I can understand that others don't want to lose that "outsider looking in" perspective of the story because BioWare needed to accommodate alien PCs.

 

However, there are others (myself included) that any effort gone to multiple races is effort that would be better spent on polish. Why work on a variety of alien wigs when we can have more hair options for our human? I may not be vehement on the subject, but I see why others may have an emotional investment in where BioWare invests their resources. This is a company that has often spread themselves too thin, and unfortunately, the players have had to pay the price every time.

[dreamgazer]

This game will be entirely racist unless I can play as one of the Raloi. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I want you to sit next to a game developer for an entire development cycle and then try to tell me that not adding in another big feature makes BioWare lazy and incompetent.

I'm talking about the story that it shouldn't be human-centric all the time, not the game itself. But it does seems to me that they just flipped the bird and do whatever they want. I just hope they don't **** this up.

[RoboticWater]

I'm talking about the story that it shouldn't be human-centric all the time, not the game itself. But it does seems to me that they just flipped the bird and do whatever they want. I just hope they don't **** this up.

Of course BioWare does whatever they want. It's their game. Making another human centric story is an entirely valid approach to Mass Effect that BioWare is completely entitled to use. I, like many others, think that BioWare should tone down the whole "humans are genetically the best, etc.," but they don't need to waste their time on multiple races to do that.

 

I don't care what your motives are. When you accuse BioWare of quote "pure laziness and incompetence" for a stylistic decision, it's simply rude. 

[sjsharp2011]

Half of what job is done? All MP did was switching the player model, with zero plot value.  Any half-arsed modder can do that, since before ME.

 

How about 'because they try to make a story that makes sense and looks good' instead?

 DAI is a perfect example of how someones horny fantasies may ruin the plot & lore consistency, also bringing in some most absurd and amusing cinematics (femDwarf ballroom dance in Halamshiral? Make me unsee that).

 

'The Shepard' can not be simply replaced by Wrex or Garrus not because BW are lazy, but because that would require the whole different contexts and stories.  This, or making the races\ spieces choice as meaningless and insigniicant as in DAI, like a customization tick in a character creator. Not to mention involving different VAs for the PC. DAI had 4 (which was insufficient if you ask me) where ME had 2, and PC is the most VA-intense character as is.

 

Do you want them to make more planets, dialogues and missions or do you want them to hire +4 VAs (because crogans ant turians don't sound the same, and people are going to be pissed if they don't add females) and waste cinematic designers' time trying to adapt the romance cut-scenes?

Which on top of that takes resources away from the story as well and we end up with a story as short as DAI's. Which means we have to decide whether we want to chooase to be various different species or have a well crafted story centred around 1 character.

 

Personally I'd choose the latter ovewr the former that's not to say I don't enjoy DAI. But mission wise the main story is a little weak and short tbh.It is a good story compared to most but you do spend the majority of DAI doing side quests and gathering power and resources than you do dealing with the main enemy/threat to be fair which isn't as good as it could be. The main story I think takes about 30/40 hours of the 100/200 hours each playthrough can take. To be honest it should be closer to about half the overall game length minimum ideally I think so in truth it needed another level or 2 added to the main story such as mayb for example having a level where you had to defend Skyhold from an attack by Corypheus. I'm not saying it's bad because for me it's the best DA they've done imo. But this sort of thing could have and would have  made it better imo.

[Barquiel]

Nah...but I find it disappointing and a bit boring that we're forced to play as humans again. I'm rather tired of playing as a Human in the ME universe and Andromeda would have been the perfect time to start with race selection. I mean, all the council species are in the same boat now, and it would be less likely that the writers fall back on that tired old gimmick of Earth "New Earth" being the center of the universe and it must be saved above all others.

[CHRrOME]

The old threads are returning, oh noes. I don't want to see "X in Andromeda, thoughts?" type of threads again...

[sjsharp2011]

The old threads are returning, oh noes. I don't want to see "X in Andromeda, thoughts?" type of threads again...

don't give anyone any ideas otherwise it might just happen

[Iakus]

Nah...but I find it disappointing and a bit boring that we're forced to play as humans again. I'm rather tired of playing as a Human in the ME universe and Andromeda would have been the perfect time to start with race selection. I mean, all the council species are in the same boat now, and it would be less likely that the writers fall back on that tired old gimmick of Earth "New Earth" being the center of the universe and it must be saved above all others.

I still don't see how playing the exact same character with a different mesh makes something go from "boring" to 'awesome"

[Pasquale1234]

But they're others who want to play a different race for experience to get to know what it's like to play a different species.

You could start by designing that character in your mind - consider their background, culture, political and religious systems, etc. Of course, as soon as you see your character in a cutscene and/or select something from a paraphrase on the dialogue wheel, the character will likely do something completely out of character - but that's true anytime you're dealing with a highly cinematic game.

DA:O along with TES and Fallout games can give you that sort of RP experience, however.
 

Elves and dwarves and qunari aren't any less human either, but I think that their inclusion in DAI was an unambiguous positive. Whether they're human humans or humans in body paint and head prosthetics, I think it offers a high amount of RP value, depending on what the player is willing to bring to the table.

The very foundation of Dragon Age gave us the tools we needed to effectively role-play other species/backgrounds. Not only did DA:O give us origin stories - where we started out playing through the character's background - but during the course of the game, we also re-visited those locations and were immersed in their culture, religious beliefs, politics, etc.

The closest we've come to any of that in MEU were the ME2 visits to Tuchanka and the quarian fleet. Those were among my favorite missions of the series, because they were so rich with background and cultural lore. I guess what I'm suggesting here is that I don't feel like I know enough about any of the other ME species to effectively role-play as them. I suppose that could change, though, if the ME team ever chose to take things in that direction.
 

I don't understand why some posters (not you particularly) passionately and vehemently argue against its inclusion though. I had that fight months ago over many, many pages, and I still think it's very weird.

As near as I can tell, this usually boils down to a couple of different arguments:

1. The zots. Won't someone please think of the zots? If they spend the zots building a feature you would like, they will have fewer zots to spend on features I want. And if you think they should take zots away from MY content to invest in yours, then you're entitled.

2. It is incumbent on you to "prove" that the feature you're requesting is desired and would be used by a significant portion of the potential market for the game.

As near as I can tell, the whole deal with ME is that the protag is, and always has been, Bioware's character. Some people have complained (for example) about Shepard's relationship with Anderson, but Shepard was always written to have Anderson as a role model and father figure. We've also seen a lot of complaints about Shepard's reaction to the fall of Thessia - and again, it was Bioware's Shepard. People only notice these emotional expressions when they conflict with their own ideas about how the character might behave in a situation.

I guess what I'm suggesting here is that the expectations for massively effective cutscene emoting among existing ME fans might lead Bioware to continue to write the PC as their own character. I'm not quite sure how they could do that if they were to allow different species to fill the PC's shoes.

[Ruadh]

Dear OP, I think you don't know what racism is. Unless you're being facetious, in which case you still don't know what racism is. Either way, try harder.

[Xen]

OP's argument reminds me of this guy

[Revan Reborn]

I want to play as a Krogan. I dont want to play as another Shephard with no personality.

 

Bioware with all their progressive PC banter still will only allow you to play as a white man/woman with different shade of color and I think its backwards thinking and not progressive at all. Especially when we already played 3 games as a boring human already!

Quarian Princess? Is that you? Oh how I've missed your troll posts.

[sjsharp2011]

Personally, I find that the main campaign will be better suited keeping the protagonist a single species. Dilute the character options too much, and the story will have to watered down and homogenized to be able to encompass so many possible outlooks; case in point being the Inquisitor from the latest Dragon Age, compared to Shepard in ME 1.

 

To go back to the DA:I example, my Dwarf Inquisitor was essentially just a short human with a beard. He had no sense of dwarven culture about him, and had to have the facets of his own society explained to him by the humans. Do we really want to see a playable Asari character stand dumbfounded when another Asari goes "By the Goddess" and then ask what the other meant by that? Because that is the kind of watered down character you would be getting if the game had to account for people being other aliens. 

 

 

Keep the single player narrative concise and focused. Use the multiplayer to let players charge into battle as other alien species. I will say though, that I will be immensely disappointed if the multiplayer is (again) restricted to only humanoid aliens when there are numerous example of non-humnoid aliens working with the PC in single player (the Rachni, Elcor, Hanar, etc.).

Exactly what I would prefer as well.

[Thermopylae]

 Speciesist. Speciesism 

[KroganSoul]

whats funny is how posters here have no sense of humor and dont get sarcasm at all. i dont know if you guys are fobs or millenials or what not. but it does not bode well for bioware to have a fanbase this thick.

[Teabaggin Krogan]

whats funny is how posters here have no sense of humor and dont get sarcasm at all. i dont know if you guys are fobs or millenials or what not. but it does not bode well for bioware to have a fanbase this thick.

Or maybe people are just playing along with you...Or at least some of them are. There might be one or two dudes who're deadly serious but the rest are probably just bored. At this point, you could say you like tortillas here and people would be arguing left and right over that just for the sake of it. All the topics are already done to death that the forum feels like a veritable cow chewing cud over and over again!

[KroganSoul]

Or maybe people are just playing along with you...Or at least some of them are. There might be one or two dudes who're deadly serious but the rest are probably just bored. At this point, you could say you like tortillas here and people would be arguing left and right over that just for the sake of it. All the topics are already done to death that the forum feels like a veritable cow chewing cud over and over again!

well its important for bioware to know what the fanbase wants and i know they frequent these boards. 

[Teabaggin Krogan]

well its important for bioware to know what the fanbase wants and i know they frequent these boards. 

Truly, crotch sliders and transgender otherkin alien romances coming right up!

[KroganSoul]

Truly, crotch sliders and transgender otherkin alien romances coming right up!

nobody wants a transgendered krogan. but most want the option to play something else beside human. cause we already did that for 3 games. bioware is really shortsighted for having another human only game.

[Teabaggin Krogan]

nobody wants a transgendered krogan. but most want the option to play something else beside human. cause we already did that for 3 games. bioware is really shortsighted for having another human only game.

I was being sarcastic btw but to answer you, it depends on budget, investment and its return. Unless I'm wrong the majority of players played a male shep in their playthrough with only a much smaller portion playing as a femshep. Now imagine giving the choice for all the different races, while providing their respective backstories, male and female voice acting, character models and animations etc. How many people do you think would actually play as anything other than a default male? Would it be worth it from an investment point of view when those resources, time and manpower can clearly be used to do something that will be enjoyed by a greater portion of the general audience. Hardly what I'd call short sight, more like making logical choices. 

 

I'd like to play as something other than a human myself tbh, it'd definitely be a nice addition. But it might not be a viable option as of now or with their current project goals or funding which perhaps is why bioware might have passed over this idea.