98 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Feminists attacked something ? In another news, water is wet. Heck, feminists even attack each other, that's pretty much what third wave western first world feminism is.

 

I personally don't like being dominated / being submissive but that doesn't mean Iron Bull's romance is degrading in anyway. Bull lays out the terms and conditions of his relationship quite clearly. The Inquisitor was the one that accepted, he or she (she in this case since it concerns feminists) could have walked away.

 

Feminism is a mess. Sad !

[Abyss108]

Feminists attacked something ? In another news, water is wet. Heck, feminists even attack each other, that's pretty much what third wave western first world feminism is.

 

I personally don't like being dominated / being submissive but that doesn't mean Iron Bull's romance is degrading in anyway. Bull lays out the terms and conditions of his relationship quite clearly. The Inquisitor was the one that accepted, he or she (she in this case since it concerns feminists) could have walked away.

 

Feminism is a mess. Sad !

 

 

Did you actually read the article? Because it didn't attack anything, one person just said they didn't like a single line in the romance - where Bull assumes he knows what you want and why you want it. Nothing to do with being dominated/submissive or that being "degrading", just the way Bull assumes you want that relationship because of your power, without you having the option to say that's not the reason you want a BDSM relationship. 

 

I quote the article - "I’d like to clearly state that I don’t think that the writing of Iron Bull is problematic".

[Catilina]

 

Patchwork: My problem with the Iron Bull relationship is that he has an opinion about why Quizzy is submissive in bed and there's no option to say "nah I've liked being bossed around in bed way before people started calling me the Herald of Andraste"  According to his armchair psychoanalysis the moment they stop being the Inquisitor vanilla sex is all they're going to want. It's dumb, I hate his presumptions and the lack of options we as players get in the dialogue.    

 

This conversation should have been like Solas and the vallaslin in that you get choices- you can express your characters thoughts and feelings then whether to keep the tattoo or not. 

 

"Nobody has ever done that to me before. I… enjoyed it." If not, you can break the relationship. This is the options. Maybe that not enough but not only here is problem with the answer/reaction options; in many places there are still insufficiency (see: blood mage Hawke and the companions, for example). 

[Catilina]

Feminists attacked something ? In another news, water is wet. Heck, feminists even attack each other, that's pretty much what third wave western first world feminism is.

 

I personally don't like being dominated / being submissive but that doesn't mean Iron Bull's romance is degrading in anyway. Bull lays out the terms and conditions of his relationship quite clearly. The Inquisitor was the one that accepted, he or she (she in this case since it concerns feminists) could have walked away.

 

Feminism is a mess. Sad !

When I  saw the topic's title at first, I wanted answer similar as you (say I hate extremism). But for the sake of the truth before I read the article ... It was not a bad decision. Never judge by title (label)! (The title is a way to draw attention. Most titles only the fine-sounding nonsense and mostly misleading.)

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Did you actually read the article? Because it didn't attack anything, one person just said they didn't like a single line in the romance - where Bull assumes he knows what you want and why you want it. Nothing to do with being dominated/submissive or that being "degrading", just the way Bull assumes you want that relationship because of your power, without you having the option to say that's not the reason you want a BDSM relationship. 

 

I quote the article - "I’d like to clearly state that I don’t think that the writing of Iron Bull is problematic".

 

Bull's an alpha male whose got game, yo. Honestly, I have seen guys like Bull IRL who are big, buff, sexually dominant and they get women so very easily.

[Abyss108]

Bull's an alpha male whose got game, yo. Honestly, I have seen guys like Bull IRL who are big, buff, sexually dominant and they get women so very easily.

 

 

... Did you even read my post?   This has no relation to anything I said!

[Almostfaceman]

... Did you even read my post?   This has no relation to anything I said!

 

My opinion, they're just trolling. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

... Did you even read my post?   This has no relation to anything I said!

 

I did and Bull can do and say whatever he wants and get women (and men) because he is an alpha male. Feminist can whine about it all they want but there are some men out there who can say and do practically anything and the people who they want to have sex with wouldn't care.

[Catilina]

I did and Bull can do and say whatever he wants and get women (and men) because he is an alpha male. Feminist can whine about it all they want but there are some men out there who can say and do practically anything and the people who they want to have sex with wouldn't care.Feminist v

But the article still does not speak about ...

 

[Not incidentally, some people in leadership positions in bed likes the subordinate role (just for the fact: I'm not a psychiatrist!).]

[Abyss108]

I did and Bull can do and say whatever he wants and get women (and men) because he is an alpha male. Feminist can whine about it all they want but there are some men out there who can say and do practically anything and the people who they want to have sex with wouldn't care.

 

 

And neither myself nor the article have said anything to do with whether that is true or not? 

[Vanilka]

"Feminists get offended by everything!" Said the person that got their panties into twist for no reason at all. Which isn't ironic or anything. 

 

In other news, some people still don't read threads they post in. Hilarious.

[Catilina]

"Feminists get offended by everything!" Said the person that got their panties into twist for no reason at all. Which isn't ironic or anything. 

 

In other news, some people still don't read threads they post in. Hilarious.

To read so tiring

[AedanStarfang]

Someone didn't read/understand the article clearly = "dem feminizts gunna take 'r gamez!!!1!"

[ModernAcademic]

The article wasn't mistaken because of the ideology of the author.

 

It was mistaken because the author wrongly blamed gender issues for Iron Bull's (once again, mistakenly interpreted as) dominant behaviour in bed instead of the real cause, which was IB having a proactive role in bed because he departed from the assumption that the Inquisitor's position as an authority was overwhelming. 

 

Therefore, the Inquisitor needed to work that stress out. And IB's chosen method was through sex. More specifically, BDSM.

[Vanilka]

Eh, not really. The Iron Bull assumes a lot, suggesting he knows what makes the Inquisitor tick and why (having lots of responsibility and such), which is no different from how people assume that if you're e.g. gay, then it's probably because /insert stereotypical reason here/. The article speaks about people jumping to conclusions and making wrong assumptions based on who you are and/or what you look like, incorrectly assuming they know how your identity and personality came to be. (You're petite, so you must therefore be the submissive one. You look large and strong, so you must therefore be the dominant one. You're in the position of power, so you must therefore enjoy being dominated in the bedroom to balance it out.) Nowhere does it state this is exclusive to any gender. The fact she lists her own and another woman's experience, or that she states that as a queer woman she can relate, doesn't make it a gender issue. The article's biggest problem is that it suggests it's going to be about the Iron Bull, when it actually has little to do with him in the end as it doesn't really complain about the writing itself.

[Seraphim24]

I'd hardly call that attacked, it honestly was more like "A queer women explores her sexuality, norms, conflicts, at the conjunction of power exchange and BDSM, musings on sexuality."

[Vilegrim]

I did and Bull can do and say whatever he wants and get women (and men) because he is an alpha male. Feminist can whine about it all they want but there are some men out there who can say and do practically anything and the people who they want to have sex with wouldn't care.

 

 

if by 'get laid' you mean commit large numbers of date rapes and intimidate the victim into silence..you would be correct.

[fhs33721]

Feminists attacked something ? In another news, water is wet. Heck, feminists even attack each other, that's pretty much what third wave western first world feminism is.

 

I personally don't like being dominated / being submissive but that doesn't mean Iron Bull's romance is degrading in anyway. Bull lays out the terms and conditions of his relationship quite clearly. The Inquisitor was the one that accepted, he or she (she in this case since it concerns feminists) could have walked away.

 

Feminism is a mess. Sad !

 

Bull's an alpha male whose got game, yo. Honestly, I have seen guys like Bull IRL who are big, buff, sexually dominant and they get women so very easily.

 

I did and Bull can do and say whatever he wants and get women (and men) because he is an alpha male. Feminist can whine about it all they want but there are some men out there who can say and do practically anything and the people who they want to have sex with wouldn't care.

Thank you for contributing all this, even though it's completely and utterly unrelated to anything currently discussed in this thread or the actual article this thread was orignally about.

It is almost as if you only read the word feminist in the title and as a result got triggered so hard that you just had to launch yourself into a completely off-topic rant about feminism, which ironically only made you look just as whiny as the whiny feminists you so clearly despise. So let me congratulate you for this tremendous achievement and just say: "Good job Bayonet Hipshot. Good job."

[AlanC9]

The article's biggest problem is that it suggests it's going to be about the Iron Bull, when it actually has little to do with him in the end as it doesn't really complain about the writing itself.

Well, the problematic lines are spoken by him. But yeah, it's not a problem with him as a character. I'd say it's a problem with the writing for the Inquisitor rather than the Bull. He's allowed to make assumptions, even wrong ones, but if they're wrong the Inquisitor should be able to correct them.

[Fylimar]

I did and Bull can do and say whatever he wants and get women (and men) because he is an alpha male. Feminist can whine about it all they want but there are some men out there who can say and do practically anything and the people who they want to have sex with wouldn't care.

 

And your point is? You do realise, that your responses have nothing to do at all with the discussion here. Maybe you should read before you post? Just a tiny suggestion.

 

 

To the topic: I find it ok, that the writer critisized that line. I never played the IB romance so far, so I don't know, if his assumtions are based on something he and the inqui disussed before or not.

 

But I disagree about Fifty Shades of Grey being either consensual or healthy. If there was ever a book about an abusive relationship - this is it. So I agree with Papa Charly there.

[Vanilka]

Well, the problematic lines are spoken by him. But yeah, it's not a problem with him as a character. I'd say it's a problem with the writing for the Inquisitor rather than the Bull. He's allowed to make assumptions, even wrong ones, but if they're wrong the Inquisitor should be able to correct them.

 

I agree. I don't have a problem with the fact he says that. I mean, I don't like when people assume things about me (or my characters), either. But if that's part of Bull's characterisation, that's perfectly fine. (Which the blogger also said.) Giving characters flaws, varied personalities and attitudes, even such that may (reasonably) offend, is an important part of good writing after all. However, I agree that we should've had an option to discuss the matter. It would be nice to be able to point out that, "Nope, I've been into this all along," for example. It's good we have the option to accept or refuse, but the Inquisitor could definitely benefit from being able to express their attitude in more depth and variety.

[Jedi Comedian]

"Femimist attacked Iron Bull's romance"

Real question is, who the **** wouldn't?

[dragonashes123]

We all love the game and yeah I don't agree with the article and couldn't stand to read all of it. I personally have no issues except the glitches. I am very open about my view and maybe it wasn't all accurate which I take full responsibility for however iron bull is a great romance and a experience in the game. Its a game meant to be talked about and debated. It's open world choices to be made and love to be found. It makes well I'll speak for myself my problems obsolete. I love all dragon age has to offer. And mass effect to great series that have a lot going on. Thanks for the comments.

[Melyanna]

This thread is so funny, it is like watching those episodes in the Simpsons where a character would say something that makes no sense and totally random and the citizens of Springfield would be ready with pitchforks to attack anything without even asking for the actual reasons.