720 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic Apostate]

I'd love to see Mae and Fenris have some banter, for the same reason I'd love to see banter between Fenris and Dorian (it would also be interesting to see them talk if BW go the route of Mae being the head of a faction that wants to reform Tevinter from the top, while Cal leads a more grassroots movement.  It's easy to say 'well, slavery is just a thing that happens' when you're not talking to someone who has suffered terribly under the system).

Well, maybe not Fenris (because he can die), but a former slave does sound interesting. I'm generally in favour of leaving past companions to smaller cameos. But I do think we'll see Isabela. If I remember correctly, she could either stay with us or be given to the Qunari, she could never die. Perhaps she (and possibly Fenris) were among the ones responsible for freeing the slave group, where our ex-slave companion was.

[Jedi Comedian]

Like I said before, the presence of a trans LI wouldn't bother me. As long as there is at least one "cis woman" (as a feminist may call it) option, I'm happy.


An ideology isn't to be forced upon others like an intellectual dictatorship.

Left wing oriented people believe in gender identity and that is their choice, but nobody has an obligation to follow suit.

I know, it is hard to grasp. It's like being devout to a religion and feeling shocked that not everyone considers it the ultimate truth.

Well, I'm neither Leftist nor Right-winger and I call trans people the pronoun they identify with. Has nothing to do with political opinions.

[Qun00]

You're in a thread which is talking about how much people want to see Mae in a future game and you're deliberately using the wrong pronouns.

No-one forced you to come in here. You did that all on your own and started talking in a way that you knew would upset people.

Oh no, I'm perfectly fine with them being upset!

[Illyria]

Oh no, I'm perfectly fine with them being upset!

 

Then don't try to play the wounded 'but what about my opinions'? card.  You're being a jerk.  Expect a response.

[Qun00]

And I do enjoy your responses.

You are all too generous in staying offended for my entertainment.

[Jedi Comedian]

And I do enjoy your responses.

You are all too generous in staying offended for my entertainment.

Esperpento.

[Qun00]

Esperpento.

Bless you.

Okay, let's neutral point of view!
Whatever the "ultimate truth", according to the story Mae: SHE. This is the fact.

So: the pronouns did not relate to the ultimate truth. The pronouns based on agreement of a group of people. As I said before: for example my language do not have gender based pronouns.

Mm... that actually is the best argument I've heard so far. Just focusing on what is presented in the story itself.

But I'd say that acknowledging the fact that Mae believes to be a woman is enough. Likewise, we know that Corypheus thinks himself a god but regarding him as such is a different story.

[Illyria]

And I do enjoy your responses.

You are all too generous in staying offended for my entertainment.

 

This is the last I'll say on the matter.

 

Your 'amusment' is hurting real people.

 

But whatever, as long as you're having fun, that's all the matter.

[vbibbi]

Here are a couple of arts...
 

Spoiler

From cocotingo on tumblr.

Spoiler

From Slugette on tumblr.

 
I really like the ones you've posted, Biotic. The color schemes are my jam. (Try to post sources as well, especially if they're from Tumblr, so I can like/reblog.)

 

I really like these fanart pictures, because they are able to show Mae as attractive in a traditional feminine manner while also having masculine features still be apparent. I think this is a good way of easing the public's fears of transgender people as completely alien to their ideas of gender.

 

I think the fixed look of DAI is a truly brilliant approach. It gives the visual distinction of 2, mixed with the customisation of DAO. I would even like them to go further with it, since you could get pretty similar looks for some companions with specific armours. Not all of them have to be dramatically different from companion to companion, but they should stay distinct.

 

Any outfit will have to take into account the climate of the northern countries. Ferelden and Orlais are the coldest parts we visited, Tevinter seems close in climate to India, so heavy fur-lined plate armour will kill anyone in it before the battle even begins. I expect loose robes to be a pretty common sight.

 

DAI is my least favorite DA game to date, but I agree that its handling of the companion outfits is the best. I think it's what DA2 planned on doing if it had had more development time. I like that each set of armor customizes to fit the style of each companion. And I appreciate that it takes a LOT of resources to make this happen, so kudos to DAI for this.

 

From what it says in WoT Vol. 2, Maevaris began living as a woman at fifteen. It caused a scandal but her father was considered too inoffensive and easily-manipulated to drive out of the Senate over it. Of course, people resisted her taking over his seat in the Senate, but her marriage to Thorhold actually helped solidify her claim. Dwarves still carry a lot of weight in the Imperium.

 

Maevaris isn't hiding; everyone in Tevinter knows she was born a man. But she's well-connected enough and powerful enough to hold on to her seat. Support from the Inquisition probably goes a long way to helping her too.

 

I think I would really like Mae's character in DA4. She seems to be aware of Tevinter's flaws without apologizing for them like Dorian does. Her attitude seems to be "yeah we're messed up, but who isn't?" And her background supports this: she has had adversity in her life, softened by her privileged status. She is not a paragon of reform like Dorian is, she's a bit more selfish and realistic.

 

I'm aware. I'm just saying, having Mae replace one of the LI options for straight males as opposed to introducing her in addition to the straight male LI options would leave me less choices.

 

That's just the point I want to keep hammering, since some people think I should be happy either way.

 

If she is a LI, I think she would have to be an "extra" option. I can't see Bioware having her be one of the two female romances for male players, there would be too much backlash over having one of the female options be transgender. I would imagine it would be the six standard LIs, two straight two bi and two gay, and then the additional Mae romance. There would be too much negative reaction otherwise.

[daveliam]

I really like these fanart pictures, because they are able to show Mae as attractive in a traditional feminine manner while also having masculine features still be apparent. I think this is a good way of easing the public's fears of transgender people as completely alien to their ideas of gender.

 

I LOVE that second picture of her.  She's beautiful in an androgynous way and her expression makes me want to know more about her.  Great picture.

[Dai Grepher]

You're in a thread which is talking about how much people want to see Mae in a future game and you're deliberately using the wrong pronouns.
 
No-one forced you to come in here.  You did that all on your own and started talking in a way that you knew would upset people.

So he can't come here unless he uses the words you want?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I think there would have to be a total of three or more before the arguments against it cease or at least lose clout. The reason being is because even with Mae being a LI, there are still at least two other LIs that can be chosen so there are still options.

Thanks for replying. There's no wrong answer. Just wondering what people think.

Next question. Would making Magister Tilani a bisexual romance option nullify the argument that the character takes the place of any straight male romance option? Would doing this anger the LGBT crowd?

[Jedi Comedian]

So he can't come here unless he uses the words you want?


Thanks for replying. There's no wrong answer. Just wondering what people think.

Next question. Would making Magister Tilani a bisexual romance option nullify the argument that the character takes the place of any straight male romance option? Would doing this anger the LGBT crowd?

I HIGHLY doubt Mae will take the place of a straight male LI, I doubt even more she'll be a LI or a follower. If anything she'll just have a cameo in DA4, like probably Dorian and Fenris will.

Anyway I prefer an all-new cast.

[Illyria]

So he can't come here unless he uses the words you want?

 

This is a thread created by someone who wanted to see Mae in the next game.  It's currently the closest she has to a fan thread.  It's basic courtesy to be polite about the character you're discussing in their thread.  You don't see me going into threads for characters I hate and talking crap about them.  People have asked politly several times for others to use the correct damn pronouns.  It's really not that hard.

[Dai Grepher]

And what are the "correct" pronouns? I think people can be fans of Magister Tilani but have a different view of factual reality than you do. Agreeing with someone's opinion has nothing to do with courtesy. But you know what is courteous?

...

Spoiler

Staying neutral.

[Catilina]

And what are the "correct" pronouns? I think people can be fans of Magister Tilani but have a different view of factual reality than you do. Agreeing with someone's opinion has nothing to do with courtesy. But you know what is courteous?

...

Spoiler

Staying neutral.

What is courteous? If you respects the will of the writer. At least.

[Illyria]

And what are the "correct" pronouns? I think people can be fans of Magister Tilani but have a different view of factual reality than you do. Agreeing with someone's opinion has nothing to do with courtesy. But you know what is courteous?

...

Spoiler

Staying neutral.

 

Mae.

 

Is.

 

A.

 

Woman.

 

The correct pronouns are she and her, on account of her being a lady.

[Jedi Comedian]

Mae.

Is.

A.

Woman.

The correct pronouns are she and her, on account of her being a lady.

I wouldn't even try if I were you. 'phobes are all hard of hearing.

[Illyria]

I wouldn't even try if I were you. 'phobes are all hard of hearing.

 

I might as well try.

[Hellion Rex]

I might as well try.

Considering we have been at this for several days, I don't think you're making any progress, to be honest.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thanks for replying. There's no wrong answer. Just wondering what people think.

Next question. Would making Magister Tilani a bisexual romance option nullify the argument that the character takes the place of any straight male romance option? Would doing this anger the LGBT crowd?

You're welcome. 

 

As for your new questions:

1) I doubt it, considering the female LI available to male and female players is a choice for straight male players. Now if she was one of two females available to both sexes then the argument is nullified because again, the orientations affected have multiple options besides her. 

2) No more than her being an option for any other orientation, and probably less since players of both sexes can romance her as the sex they want. 

[Jedi Comedian]

Considering we have been at this for several days, I don't think you're making any progress, to be honest.

Homophobes have been ****** around since the dawn of time, several days is nothing LOL.

[Andromelek]

This is a thread created by someone who wanted to see Mae in the next game. It's currently the closest she has to a fan thread. It's basic courtesy to be polite about the character you're discussing in their thread. You don't see me going into threads for characters I hate and talking crap about them. People have asked politly several times for others to use the correct damn pronouns. It's really not that hard.

I didn't see the things that way, very well, I shall not bother in this thread any longer, although I think is kind of naive believe that there won't be haters around.

Homophobes have been ****** around since the dawn of time, several days is nothing LOL.

Actually, I don't think that I have heard of them on the time of ancient Greece, in fact not prior to the fall of Rome, I suppose the Bible may have screwed it.

[Jedi Comedian]

I didn't see the things that way, very well, I shall not bother in this thread any longer, although I think is kind of naive believe that there won't be haters around.


Actually, I don't think that I have heard of them on the time of ancient Greece, in fact not prior to the fall of Rome, I suppose the Bible may have screwed it.

Only strictly active homosexuality was not seen badly, bottom shaming is also homophobia (heck, it is the most popular type).

[Dai Grepher]

What is courteous? If you respects the will of the writer. At least.

The writer has Tilani as biologically male.

Mae.
 
Is.
 
A.
 
Woman.
 
The correct pronouns are she and her, on account of her being a lady.

Clearly, Qun00 disagrees with your opinion.

As for your new questions:
1) I doubt it, considering the female LI available to male and female players is a choice for straight male players. Now if she was one of two females available to both sexes then the argument is nullified because again, the orientations affected have multiple options besides her.

Not sure I understand what you mean. I get that making Tilani a bi LI could still be seen as infringing a straight male's options, but I don't see how having one alternative would dispel that. In fact, in my question I meant that Tilani would be a bi LI in addition to a straight female and a bi female.

2) No more than her being an option for any other orientation, and probably less since players of both sexes can romance her as the sex they want.

Maybe. Or maybe they would see it as BioWare diminishing the character's "gender identity" by not making Tilani attracted exclusively to males.

Another question to any who are interested in answering.

What if they made Tilani bisexual AND polygamist? Such as...

Male - Tilani - Female,
Male - Tilani - Male,
Female - Tilani - Female,

and with the various sexual preferences applying to the males and females.

Homophobes have been ****** around since the dawn of time, several days is nothing LOL.

Is this thread about homosexuality? Are you suggesting that Tilani is a homosexual male?

Anyway, a phobia requires one to be irrational. As long as those here can explain their rationale, they cannot possibly be phobic.

[nightscrawl]

Only strictly active homosexuality was not seen badly, bottom shaming is also homophobia (heck, it is the most popular type).

Call me slow, or whatever, that's fine.

I'm just now realizing that you can look at aspects of Tevinter society through this lens, given the "actively encouraged with favored slaves" line from the Sexuality in Thedas codex entry. In that vein, it's also another Tevinter=Rome connection, culturally speaking.

 

However, I don't usually like to read too much into things, so perhaps not, but it is what your remark made me think of.

 

 

[edit]

I find it somewhat sad that the Greeks and Romans are held up as some sort of historical example of homosexual tolerance when they really weren't. To me, the only bonus points they get (especially the Greeks) are that they celebrated beauty in all its forms, including the male form, which isn't really present today outside certain circles and cultures. Olympic athletes competed in the nude!* There are examples in this thread of straight men who purportedly find the male form disgusting, or at least not admirable, which is a truly unfortunate development.

 

 

* I don't know how they ran around comfortably, but you do you, Greece.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 01 juin 2016 - 12:17 .