720 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

I totally do need to find the LI attractive in order to roleplaying romancing them. Cassandra's looks really were an impediment to me romancing her. I would be unhappy if Maevaris was an LI, as that would leave me only one option.

I don't have a problem with Mae being a party member. I don't object to her inclusion in the setting, and I wouldn't chide her for sexuality. I don't view her as less of a person because she was born a man. But, romance-wise, it is still a deal-breaker.

Why are you assuming that Mae would be included in the options for straight males -- or rather, men interested in women? That is all it is at this point: assumption. There is nothing in the previous three games to indicate that they would do this. You were the first person to voice this concern in this thread, and it is totally unfounded. Men interested in women, and playing male characters, had two options in DAO, DA2, and DAI and there is nothing to suggest that they will take one of those away and replace her with a transwoman.

[Heimdall]

That seems a bit redundant to have them both be in the same position.

Maybe, though I could see Maevaris heading up the actual political maneuvering in the Magisterium (She has been a magister a lot longer than he has) while Dorian handles the 'operational' side of things, such as relaying things back to the Inquisitor with the sending stone and assigning missions to the new PC.

Plus, banter between them in cutscenes would be potentially phenomenal. Admittedly, part of my concern is keeping the party open for as many new characters as possible while still leaving room for Calpernia, who I would love the chance to explore more as a companion (And assuming she's lost the influence she wielded when the Venatori held more sway, she'd be in desperate need of influence, so I could see her willing to join up)

I'll admit that part of the reason I want her as a romance option is to see what Bioware would come up with. They have the experience of her presentation in the comics (and the response to that), and Krem's presentation in the game (and the response to that), to fall back on.

That's kinda what makes me hesitant. There's lots of potential to botch this, and botch it bad, and Bioware doesn't do subtle well. Still, they could do it well... I say it's 50/50

[nightscrawl]

Maybe, though I could see Maevaris heading up the actual political maneuvering in the Magisterium (She has been a magister a lot longer than he has) while Dorian handles the 'operational' side of things, such as relaying things back to the Inquisitor with the sending stone and assigning missions to the new PC.

Plus, banter between them in cutscenes would be potentially phenomenal. Admittedly, part of my concern is keeping the party open for as many new characters as possible while still leaving room for Calpernia, who I would love the chance to explore more as a companion (And assuming she's lost the influence she wielded when the Venatori held more sway, she'd be in desperate need of influence, so I could see her willing to join up)

That's kinda what makes me hesitant. There's lots of potential to botch this, and botch it bad, and Bioware doesn't do subtle well. Still, they could do it well... I say it's 50/50

 

Oh, well YES of course I wouldn't mind them both being around in the same scenes for exactly this reason. Also, I get a big sister vibe in her attitude toward Dorian, so there is potential for cuteness there as well. I'd love to see her teasing him in a loving way. (Oh Maker, if she had a remark about his relationship with the Inquisitor I think I would just die right in front of the computer.)

 

I'm wary about the whole Calpernia thing, if only because she isn't a factor for a big chunk of players who never encountered her in their play. They will have to introduce her for those players. As a mage-sider myself, I can tell you that the ONLY mention of Calpernia that I've ever seen in the game is in a note regarding slave transportation in the Western Approach.

 

As far as the rest, I'm choosing to be optimistic (Dorian would laugh at this), and I wish more people would as well. =/

[thats1evildude]

Why are you assuming that Mae would be included in the options for straight males -- or rather, men interested in women? That is all it is at this point: assumption. There is nothing in the previous three games to indicate that they would do this. You were the first person to voice this concern in this thread, and it is totally unfounded. Men interested in women, and playing male characters, had two options in DAO, DA2, and DAI and there is nothing to suggest that they will take one of those away and replace her with a transwoman.

As I said, it's just a gut feeling. I could see them do it as a way of raising societal consciousness and all that jazz. "Here is this perfectly nice character, yes she was born a man, why should that matter, check your privilege and so forth." An admirable goal in and of itself, but it still kind of leaves me out in the cold.

[thats1evildude]

I don't think she would be an exclusive LI for dwarves, incidentally. She seemed to like Alistair and being waited on by scantily-clad male slaves in the Fadde.

[nightscrawl]

As I said, it's just a gut feeling. I could see them do it as a way of raising societal consciousness and all that jazz. "Here is this perfectly nice character, yes she was born a man, why should that matter, check your privilege and so forth." An admirable goal in and of itself, but it still kind of leaves me out in the cold.

 

It just seems like you are taking Bioware's stance of inclusivity and attributing something malicious to it. Just because your gut is telling you something doesn't mean that your human higher-order brain can't override it and know that it isn't likely to happen.

 

 

I don't think she would be an exclusive LI for dwarves, incidentally. She seemed to like Alistair and being waited on by scantily-clad male slaves in the Fadde.

 

Hah, I don't either, but it would be amusing!

[Heimdall]

I'm wary about the whole Calpernia thing, if only because she isn't a factor for a big chunk of players who never encountered her in their play. They will have to introduce her for those players. As a mage-sider myself, I can tell you that the ONLY mention of Calpernia that I've ever seen in the game is in a note regarding slave transportation in the Western Approach.

I actually tend to choose mages myself, but I do find her origin story and motivation interesting. I don't think introducing her would be any more a problem for her than any other new character. It's not as if the new PC would have any cause to know her.

Granted, this is again somewhat self-serving. I hope to play a qunari ex-slave turned Tevinter nationalist, so she would make a great love interest for my prospective character.

[Dai Grepher]

It's called roleplay.

I know what it's called. I know some can do it for this particular subject matter. I know some can't. The question is if there are enough people who can to make writing the romance worth it.

I don't play my male Inquisitor as a proxy for myself.

Me neither, but that doesn't mean I would explore the game's homosexual content, and I think a lot more players feel the same way than don't.

I think you are doing a disservice to straight men, and whoever else, in assuming that they will only see Mae's genitals as a barrier, or that they can't possibly RP a character who doesn't care.

Well I certainly wouldn't want to do a disservice other heterosexual men by assuming they wouldn't like to find a penis and testicles attached to their love interest.

Look, I'm not suggesting all heterosexual male players would dash for the brain bleach upon learning of Tilani's physical specifications, I'm just predicting that most would. Which would leave bisexual male players and some heterosexual female players who share your zeal for roleplay as the romance's main audience.

Also, this doesn't necessarily fall on the bisexuality scale. There ARE straight men who want to have sex with a penis-having woman.

Okay, well... I think it's safe to count them among the bisexual.

There are also straight men who like to be pegged by women

Ignoring what's involved in that, this would still mean that they would want someone who is biologically female.

luckily for them, a non-op transwoman like Mae can do it herself and doesn't need artificial assistance

Lucky them! And what proud Tevinter parents their characters will have should that be one of the origins.

(assuming she would be into that as well, who knows).

Assuming? What self-respecting lady wouldn't be into that sort of thing?

Heterosexuals come in all flavors too, and heterosexual men and women like all sorts of kinds of sex and people to have sex with.

Well I prefer to follow the actual definition of words, thank you. So I'll count those you mentioned among the bisexual, which I already accounted for in previous statements.

You also keep ignoring the fact presented to you that there were straight men who liked Dorian and played out the romance with him.

I don't ignore that they did. I just question their number.

makes no sense. The devs didn't have to spend resources on anything. Dorian is a gay romance and some straight men decided, on their own, to make a male character and romance him, just as some straight men will do the same with Maevaris if she is a romance.

Some. That's my point. I understand why Dorian's romance was created so you need not go into it. The issue is how many people will bother to explore any such romance option with Tilani.

[Dai Grepher]

Who knows what roleplay these men will have for their character? You, or I, or anyone else can't know what RP reason these people will have for making a male character that romances Mae.

Who cares? The discussion is about how many will do it.

For all we know, she will be gated to dwarven men, and straight men who normally play elves will make a bear-ish dwarf just to romance her because they think she's the bee's knees.

Yes, all five of them in existence. Great return on that investment.

Homosexuals RP against type too. You think there were no gay men who romanced Cassandra because they like her, or just to see what that romance is like, OR because they didn't like either of the male options available to them?

Yes. I think there wasn't a single homosexual male in the entire world who created a male character and used it to romance Cassandra. That's exactly what I believe.

AND I'll bet that there were also straight men who played a guy for the Iron Bull romance, for whatever reason -- perhaps a male qunari so the physical difference isn't so great (this would be my own personal reason for that choice).

AND I'll bet that there were also people who chose the option "I want to understand you" when Corypheus attacked in Haven because they were trying to start a romance with him. So why not release a Coryphemancer DLC for that 1% of players who would enjoy that romance? I mean after all, some players who may be repulsed by the idea of romancing a blighted man-monster themselves might create a new character just to roleplay that romance to see what it's like. Make it so BioWare. Make it so.

Why are you assuming that Mae would be included in the options for straight males -- or rather, men interested in women?

It's an assumption on his part yes, but it's a logical assumption. Tilani is interested in men after all, right? And you are of the opinion that Tilani is a woman, right?

That is all it is at this point: assumption. There is nothing in the previous three games to indicate that they would do this.

Josephine. One of two romances for straight men, shared with homosexual/bisexual females, and yet she was not... "fully" romanceable. Which left straight men with only one straight female option.

Origins treated us much better.

You were the first person to voice this concern in this thread, and it is totally unfounded.

He's not the first. I think Battlebloodmage brought it up a while ago.

Men interested in women, and playing male characters, had two options in DAO, DA2, and DAI and there is nothing to suggest that they will take one of those away and replace her with a transwoman.

The fact that Tilani claims to be a woman and is attracted to males. The fact that Patrick Weekes says he doesn't care if fans want to have options when faced with trans issues.

I'm wary about the whole Calpernia thing, if only because she isn't a factor for a big chunk of players who never encountered her in their play.

Which would be the case with those who didn't read the comics when it comes to Tilani. So what? It would be like discovering a new character in that case.

They will have to introduce her for those players. As a mage-sider myself, I can tell you that the ONLY mention of Calpernia that I've ever seen in the game is in a note regarding slave transportation in the Western Approach.

*GASP* You mean, you haven't ROLEPLAYED a templar playthrough?!?!?!

I find it quite amusing that you wrote all that you did about players roleplaying some irrelevant homosexual romances, but when it comes to an actual storyline arc that runs through the entire game, you think these players haven't roleplayed a templar side playthrough to see what Calpernia was like.

[nightscrawl]

^ Not going to address all the rest, but I have played a templar play. My remark about that was concerning a few things:

1 The player's world state when they import from the Keep and have sided with the mages. In that case, it doesn't matter what the player did, or how many times they played. In that world state, Calpernia is not known to Dorian.

2 The fact that most players only play the game once. Of those players, a chunk of them will have only seen the mage, OR the templar side of it. I would say the same thing if it were about Samson instead.

3 There will also be those new players that have no association with her whatsoever, just as there will be those who have no association with Maevaris, and will have to be introduced to them in the proper manner. There are also current players of the games who have no interest in the ancillary materials, comics and novels, that will only know of Mae from the bits we get dropped in DAI, and nothing else; there is no suggestion in the game that she is trans. As far as those people know, she is a woman, and if they recall the references to her in DAI at all, that's likely how they'll remember her: a female Tevinter magister who is Dorian's friend, for whom you do some war table operations, and see by his side in the Trespasser epilogue.

[nightscrawl]

For all we know all of the romance discussion is pointless anyway. There was similar discussion, albeit without the controversy, about Varric prior to DAI (particularly before the comic where we see the real Bianca for the first time), and he never became a romance option either.

[BansheeOwnage]

It's called roleplay.

I am a straight woman and have no interest whatsoever in being romantic or engaging in sexy times with other women. If Cassandra had been available to the female PC I would have definitely played that out because I like Cassandra that much, but that's not an option for me. Cassandra is in fact the only female follower across all three games that I am disappointed is not a bi or lesbian option; she's really great. If I play a guy, I'm romancing Dorian because that is how I want to use those 150 hours of gameplay as a male character. None of the options for females, gay, straight, or bi, are of any interest to me.

 

In the case of Cassandra, I would be romancing the character, not her lady bits. When I made a guy for Dorian, it was because I really enjoyed his character and personality -- I especially wanted to give him a HUG after his personal quest -- and wanted to see how the romance played out. I don't play my male Inquisitor as a proxy for myself. I am not a gay man and I know Dorian would have no interest in me or my lady bits.

 

 

I think you are doing a disservice to straight men, and whoever else, in assuming that they will only see Mae's genitals as a barrier, or that they can't possibly RP a character who doesn't care. Also, this doesn't necessarily fall on the bisexuality scale. There ARE straight men who want to have sex with a penis-having woman. There are also straight men who like to be pegged by women -- luckily for them, a non-op transwoman like Mae can do it herself and doesn't need artificial assistance (assuming she would be into that as well, who knows). Heterosexuals come in all flavors too, and heterosexual men and women like all sorts of kinds of sex and people to have sex with.

 

You also keep ignoring the fact presented to you that there were straight men who liked Dorian and played out the romance with him. Despite not being sexually attracted to him, they managed to make a character that was and roleplayed that way. Your reply to Biotic -- "Yeah, sure, okay. But how many? Did it justify spending resources on it?" -- makes no sense. The devs didn't have to spend resources on anything. Dorian is a gay romance and some straight men decided, on their own, to make a male character and romance him, just as some straight men will do the same with Maevaris if she is a romance. Who knows what roleplay these men will have for their character? You, or I, or anyone else can't know what RP reason these people will have for making a male character that romances Mae.

 

For all we know, she will be gated to dwarven men, and straight men who normally play elves will make a bear-ish dwarf just to romance her because they think she's the bee's knees.

 

 

[edit]

Homosexuals RP against type too. You think there were no gay men who romanced Cassandra because they like her, or just to see what that romance is like, OR because they didn't like either of the male options available to them? AND I'll bet that there were also straight men who played a guy for the Iron Bull romance, for whatever reason -- perhaps a male qunari so the physical difference isn't so great (this would be my own personal reason for that choice).

If I could like this post more than once, I would, because it perfectly explains the RP aspect of this discussion (not that it'll be the end of it, unfortunately).

 

And you're totally right about the edit, there are even gay men on this thread (maybe you were thinking of them) who romanced Cassandra for the reasons you stated, and I'm an example of a homosexual who RPed against type with Cullen. People assume too much about other players and what they like.

 

Also, I thought you might be a gay man, actually, probably because of all the Dorian posts My potential bad Although now I feel like I knew you were a woman and forgot.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

As far as the rest, I'm choosing to be optimistic (Dorian would laugh at this), and I wish more people would as well. =/

Sometimes I get optimistic, then I read comments

 

Seriously though, it depends on the day, to be honest. Sometimes I feel good and I'm optimistic, other times the reverse. About lots of things. I do hope everything gets done well though.

[Biotic Apostate]

Ah well see, there you go. And as I discussed with others here, additional gating may be required depending on storyline.
As for Solas, his romance tied into the storyline heavily. So that made writing it worthwhile. 

Cullen's romance was gated too, and that had no story explanation. Actually, you're providing a reason why they should do the romance. I don't think her marriage means she's only attracted to dwarves, but if that's the case, it will cost less - just one set of animations/scenes to be made.

 

Never claimed they couldn't. Just that logically a romance option should be worthwhile and appeal to as many as possible. Having one that is too gated defeats the purpose of having it. Like if they had made Cassandra only be romanceable by a male human mage with greying hair. It would have applied to my Inquisitor just fine, but not that many other people's Inquisitors.

Appealing to as many as possible means having varied romances - straight, gay, trans. That way everyone has something to choose for themselves. You get maximum coverage across all LIs.

 

Right, but those include all the players who would choose those options normally. In this case we're talking about the much smaller minority that would choose it normally, as well as those who would choose it just to see what it was like.

In other words, homosexual and bisexual males and females will choose their preferred homosexual or bisexual romances in games. And there are some heterosexuals who will make a character specifically to see what those homosexual or bisexual romances are like. So yeah, BioWare sees that as a worthwhile endeavor. However, with Tilani, the targeted player character would be a bisexual male, and with some other possible gating. So how many players will explore this exactly? Probably a far lesser number. So the question is if that number is high enough for BioWare to spend resources on it.

Same reasoning was used with gay LIs - "they're a minority, no need to waste resources." And again, stop with that weak argument of who's allowed to play the romance. Role playing is a thing as I and others have pointed out, more than just bisexual males will access the romance.

 

I never wrote that it wasn't worthwhile to include LGBT characters. I never even wrote that in regards to Tilani. My point was about making the character romanceable and the various obstacles BioWare would face in terms of storyline and practicality.

Nah, you just said you "want an option to skip that content" and that trans romances are not worthwhile. And something about the ominous agenda, whatever that is.

 

Yeah... so if it's okay to refer to Hawke by family name, why not is it somehow not okay for Tilani as well?

I'll repeat for the third time, maybe it will sink in this time - Hawke is an undefined character, Mae is not. Why don't you refer to Cassandra as "Pentaghast" all of the time?

In a paragraph addressing Dorian you say "Dorian, he, Dorian, him," in a paragraph concerning Mae you say "Tilani, Tilani, Tilani." It's obvious, what you're doing, so you can stop acting coy.

[Biotic Apostate]

Homosexuals RP against type too. You think there were no gay men who romanced Cassandra because they like her, or just to see what that romance is like, OR because they didn't like either of the male options available to them? AND I'll bet that there were also straight men who played a guy for the Iron Bull romance, for whatever reason -- perhaps a male qunari so the physical difference isn't so great (this would be my own personal reason for that choice).

I did Aerie's and Morrigan's romances (and never finished Zevran's), and that doesn't mean I'm "attracted to the female form," it means I wanted to experience that story. But someone seems to think most people will only ever touch romances that align with their orientations (but not genders, because that is ok to roleplay  ).

[daveliam]

While I love the idea of Mae as a companion in DA4, I really hope she isn't an LI.  There are really two main reasons for it:

 

1.)  I'm really tired of the "my spouse is dead, but I'll find love again with you, PC" thing.  I can easily see them veering off into Carth Syndrome territory with her and I think she deserves better than that.

 

2.)  Frankly, I think that the fandom isn't ready for a transwoman romance.  Unless she is an "extra" romance, people are going to be unhappy.  Look at this thread already.  The very idea of a transwoman being 'for straight guys' is bringing out the same old tired rhetoric.  I just don't think that they can do her justice.  If she's a "full" romance, then many straight men will be (at best) disappointed and/or (at worst) shouting the "Liberal PC gay content is being shoved down my throat" nonsense.  She can't be "for gay guys", since she's a she.  And we know that she's attracted to men because of her husband, so she can't be a lesbian romance (unless she is bisexual -- in which case, we also get the "for straight guys" issue).  And if they make her an "extra" romance, they run the risk of making it look like she's an afterthought or add-on for novelty's sake.  To be honest, I think it's a damned if they do, damned if they don't moment. 

 

All that being said, if they make her a bisexual romance option?  I suspect that my sole lady PC will romance her because I think she's kind of awesome (unless they also have Harding as an option for ladies).  But I just don't think I can handle having to read dozens and dozens of posts from the same 10 people talking about how Bioware is trying to force "a man" as an option "for straight men".  I just can't.

[Andromelek]

^Wait... Harding is confirmed lesbian?

[Boost32]

^Wait... Harding is confirmed lesbian?

Lesbian? No, but I think it is pretty safe to assume she is Bi.

[Illyria]

Yeah... so if it's okay to refer to Hawke by family name, why not is it somehow not okay for Tilani as well?

 

 

You. Are. Refusing. To. Use. Pronouns. For. Mae.

 

You are also refusing to refer to her by her first name.  The language you're using makes it very clear - you don't think of Mae as being a woman.  You've used Dorian's first name.  You've used pronouns for him.  It is obvious you're avoiding using them for Mae.

 

Hawke is the player character.  While I always refer to her as she/her, a lot of other player use he/him.  Some use they/them.  Mae, however, is a woman.  She is a lady.  If she was an LI she could be romanced by lesbians, bisexuals or heterosexual men (ie: people who like ladies)

[Andromelek]

Lesbian? No, but I think it is pretty safe to assume she is Bi.

That's what I thought, I don't recall having a discussion about her preferences, although I'm not really fan of Harding as a LI.

[Biotic Apostate]

While I love the idea of Mae as a companion in DA4, I really hope she isn't an LI.  There are really two main reasons for it:

 

1.)  I'm really tired of the "my spouse is dead, but I'll find love again with you, PC" thing.  I can easily see them veering off into Carth Syndrome territory with her and I think she deserves better than that.

 

2.)  Frankly, I think that the fandom isn't ready for a transwoman romance.  Unless she is an "extra" romance, people are going to be unhappy.  Look at this thread already.  The very idea of a transwoman being 'for straight guys' is bringing out the same old tired rhetoric.  I just don't think that they can do her justice.  If she's a "full" romance, then many straight men will be (at best) disappointed and/or (at worst) shouting the "Liberal PC gay content is being shoved down my throat" nonsense.  She can't be "for gay guys", since she's a she.  And we know that she's attracted to men because of her husband, so she can't be a lesbian romance (unless she is bisexual -- in which case, we also get the "for straight guys" issue).  And if they make her an "extra" romance, they run the risk of making it look like she's an afterthought or add-on for novelty's sake.  To be honest, I think it's a damned if they do, damned if they don't moment. 

 

All that being said, if they make her a bisexual romance option?  I suspect that my sole lady PC will romance her because I think she's kind of awesome (unless they also have Harding as an option for ladies).  But I just don't think I can handle having to read dozens and dozens of posts from the same 10 people talking about how Bioware is trying to force "a man" as an option "for straight men".  I just can't.

While story reasons are a very valid concern to have when it comes to Mae's romance (or lack thereof), BSN response (or even a wider backlash) should not have, in my opinion, any influence over the inclusion of a trans person as a companion or even romance option. 

 

The general fandom will never be ready for it, like nightscrawl said, there's no right time to do it. They just have to start somewhere, and 3-4 trans companions or romances later, not many will remember what the fuss was about. Remember BSN, or hell, the entire internet, circa 2011-2012? I couldn't believe how hateful and hurtful the comments were. Comments like how BW ruined Shepard by making him a f**, how good it felt to kill Anders for flirting with Hawke. I steered clear of this place for 3 years after that, so I completely understand, why Dani or anyone else would rather just avoid that. But compare that to the response Dorian has gotten. It was either positive or extremely tame criticism.

 

If we waited for the fandom to be ready first, Dorian would have been the first gay companion and romance. Would a calmer BSN (or any other gaming website) be worth loosing Anders, Fenris, Kaidan, or Steve? I know I might be not be representative of a lot of gay men, but Anders' romance helped me believe gay people deserve to be loved. This is not a message I could get anywhere else at that time.

Even though BW romances are not some sort of pinnacle of writing and most people don't feel validated because of them, and even though this place will drown in acid (and uppercase angry threads), isn't it worth it if even one trans person sees that kind of romance being treated as no big deal in the game and is moved by it?

 

Anyhow, even if Mae is not a romance option, it will be fantastic if she's a companion.

 

(this was way more personal than I intended, so have some funny gifs)

 

[BansheeOwnage]

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

 

I have strong feelings in both directions

[Crowsfeet]

I first heard of Mae through her war table missions. She made me laugh when she called Dorian a hothouse orchid. I did a bit of research about her and thought she sounded really interesting. I really hope she's in the next game and can't wait to meet her if so. She seems like a loyal friend and dangerous enemy. I look forward to seeing her brought to life and see the frienship between her and Dorian.

There will be ignorance and hostility, of course, but I'm sure there will also be far more people who support the character. As for romance? Absolutely. I can only hope that the PC is awesome enough to be worthy of her. She sounds formidable :-)

[nightscrawl]

2.) Frankly, I think that the fandom isn't ready for a transwoman romance. Unless she is an "extra" romance, people are going to be unhappy. Look at this thread already. The very idea of a transwoman being 'for straight guys' is bringing out the same old tired rhetoric. I just don't think that they can do her justice. If she's a "full" romance, then many straight men will be (at best) disappointed and/or (at worst) shouting the "Liberal PC gay content is being shoved down my throat" nonsense. She can't be "for gay guys", since she's a she. And we know that she's attracted to men because of her husband, so she can't be a lesbian romance (unless she is bisexual -- in which case, we also get the "for straight guys" issue). And if they make her an "extra" romance, they run the risk of making it look like she's an afterthought or add-on for novelty's sake. To be honest, I think it's a damned if they do, damned if they don't moment.

All that being said, if they make her a bisexual romance option? I suspect that my sole lady PC will romance her because I think she's kind of awesome (unless they also have Harding as an option for ladies). But I just don't think I can handle having to read dozens and dozens of posts from the same 10 people talking about how Bioware is trying to force "a man" as an option "for straight men". I just can't.

As much as I like Mae and think it would be great to have the opportunity to romance her, I don't think she should be an option for straight guys either. I also strongly believe that would not be the case if she were to be a LI. We've had a gated romance with Cullen, and the most gated with Solas. Those two were added on and were extra options. I don't see why the same can't apply to Mae. I do see some concern that it would be "othering" her, but I think that is just one concern that we would have to live with because...
 
You can't please everyone. Despite the generally positive response for Dorian, there were still gay men who were unhappy that he was one of two options for them, with the other being Iron Bull; he's either too stereotypical, or they dislike the emphasis on his sexuality in his personal arc, or the romance has an unhappy ending, or whatever else. There were also lesbians unhappy with the portrayal of Sera; that she was written by a man, that her general attitude makes lesbians look bad, and whatever else.
 
If Mae is included, whether as a follower, or LI, or both, there will be happy trans people AND unhappy trans people, just as there will be happy and unhappy cis heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals with whatever options they have.
 
I don't think that Mae has to "be" for any particular group. She could just be there, interested in men, and available to the PC to romance. That doesn't mean she is for the straight men, or bisexual men. At that point, once she is in the game and available, it's up to the player to decide on whatever roleplay that makes the romance possible for their character. I think there will be men and women [players], gay, straight, and bi, cis and trans, who will be happy to make all sorts of characters to romance her.

 

If we waited for the fandom to be ready first, Dorian would have been the first gay companion and romance.

It can also be argued that those other characters and romances helped pave the way for Dorian. The fandom was ready because of them. So, thanks, Anders, et al.! Without them, Dorian may have been the first and have gotten the same response as those others got.

However... As much as I DO NOT view Dorian this way, there was one response earlier in this thread that made me think that Dorian was accepted by some folks simply because he looked, sounded, and acted in the way they expect gay men to act, including the acceptance aspect of his personal arc. In that sense, Dorian was the safe, predicable gay man, he didn't challenge their view of what it means to be a gay man, or of what a gay man looks, sounds, and acts like.

 

I am just now realizing this mode of thinking and I find it disturbing and unfortunate, not only because I like Dorian very much, but because it's so reductive as to eliminate any part of the character, whoever that may be, beyond their sexuality.

 

Of course, this is why we have the Gay KISA and Gay Badass threads.
 

Would a calmer BSN (or any other gaming website) be worth loosing Anders, Fenris, Kaidan, or Steve? I know I might be not be representative of a lot of gay men, but Anders' romance helped me believe gay people deserve to be loved. This is not a message I could get anywhere else at that time.

I know you didn't write this for this sort of response but... *HUG!*
 

... isn't it worth it if even one trans person sees that kind of romance being treated as no big deal in the game and is moved by it?

I think so. We have to start somewhere. Someone, some character, has to be FIRST.

 

 

[edit]

There is also something to be said for meeting someone of whatever group, interacting with them, and seeing them as a person. It shouldn't be the case, but that does happen. I know it's a game, and Maevaris isn't real, but she may inspire some light bulb moments for some people. I think that's worth it, too.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 24 mai 2016 - 10:33 .

[DuskWanderer]

If Mae is in the game, I do not want a prominent role. Mae is too much like Dorian: Full of bombast and desire to change Tevinter. Regardless of whether or not that's the right thing to do, it's something we've already seen.

 

I'd much prefer a balanced approach, someone who sees what radical departure can do, the horrible downside no one wants to consider.