720 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromelek]

The name is actually Maevaris, Mae is merely a diminutive for it, not using such isn't exactly disrespectful.

[Biotic Apostate]

But also more characters that would be excluded from the relationship. Also, Cullen's romance was a last minute addition, and his gate was wider than Solas'.

Solas was also a last minute addition. Both he and Cullen were additional romances to the 6 they planned from the start, so the number is not set in stone. And who says Mae's romance cannot include plot details like Solas' romance? People would create a dwarf male to get that part of the story, just like many created an elf female to learn more about elven lore from Solas'.

 

That's not the same thing. Providing more options isn't the same as allowing greater access to a specific romance. By closing off access you restrict it to a smaller audience.

Instead of making another straight romance, a trans romance would cover a portion of players that has no choice available. I know there are straight men here who would like 3 or 4 options, because Josephine was "too exotic," or not a "full option" (whatever you mean by it), or that Cassandra was too manly, but this is not a game for straight men only, but for everyone. After DA2 BW said that they believe everyone should have equal choices, and not that straight men are the main demographic, so they will have more choices. If you want to get maximum appeal to the majority, you can play the 90% of games that do pander only to straight men. BW doesn't need to do anything additional for them, because everyone else already does.

 

But the issue is canon playthroughs. If you create a character, and you become invested in that character as your main, primary, or canon character, and then you meet Tilani and your character is restricted from starting a romance, then what? Sure you could start over with a new character, or wait until a secondary playthrough, but most people won't do that. So it's a waste.

But some people do. Again, there were straight men, who said they planned on romancing Cassandra or Josephine, but ended up with Dorian, because they found him so great. Even during the first playthrough, people don't have to play their usual way. People somehow managed to plan for gated romances in DAI, I'm sure they will be fine in 4. The issue of gating and whether it's forcing people to vet the options before starting the game is a separate conversation. One that might not even apply to Maevaris, because it's not certain that her romance (if it happens) will be limited to male dwarves.

 

Then quote me exactly, don't just make claims. I think you may have misunderstood. As I recall I merely made a point about what other people requested in another thread regarding trans content.

Ok, so you have absolutely no problems with Mae being a companion, you just think the romance is "not worthwhile," and "a waste." It's just other people that want to have an option not to deal with trans companions. You're just advocating that their transphobia should be the priority for BW, and not going with the "agenda," because you think the bigger group has always priority. Understood. So if there were more white supremacists willing to buy the game than people who want diversity, BW should follow the money and make all of the characters white, right?

 

Because Cass is my canon Inquisitor's romance. And it's easier to call her "Cass", or even "Cassandra".

I don't know what you mean. If there is nothing wrong with using any character's last name to refer to them, then this should apply to Tilani's character as well. Shouldn't it?

There are three letter words, like she and her, that you can use to talk about Maevaris. You even used "her" in the quote above. And "him," "he" when talking about Dorian.

 

Here's a quote from your post:

"Tilani's inheritance of his assets was also most fortunate. Also a nice excuse to go after one's enemies. So Tilani might only want a man of similar wealth and power in order to gain more influence over the Magisterium. I mean, you have to think, if Tilani has enemies in the Magisterium, which is true, then the other magisters are probably trying to attack Tilani at every turn."

 

You could say "attack her," or "she has enemies." Your avoidance of pronouns makes your posts awkward to read.

 

Compare

"Tilani picked up Tilani's staff to fight against Tilani's enemies."

to

"Tilani picked up her staff to fight against her enemies."

It's obvious that you do this, because you don't want to call her a woman. Or you'd like to call her a man, but know the mods would ban you. Either way, it's petty. And I will not listen to you act coy and ignore what the others are saying for the next 60 pages.

 

Yes. Players will stick to romances that meet their morals.

No, they do not. They do romances they find interesting, which was apparent especially in DnD games, where people romanced characters with evil alignments. I have no idea how doing an in-game romance makes a statement about your morals.

 

If it's okay for Hawke then it should be okay for any character. 

Again - undefined character with no no certain gender or first name. If you said "I'd like Eustace to return, he was such a great protagonist," no one will know, who you're talking about. That's why we say Hawke, and since you can select their gender, people switch between he, she, and they.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm pretty sure her dwarf husband is str8 as an arrow.

Based upon what exactly? He could be bisexual for all we know.

[Hellion Rex]

To the topic at hand, I would love to see her in game, preferably not as a romance, since I really don't think it would be good narratively speaking. If she is though, I don't really mind, but I personally wouldn't feel comfortable romancing her. I'll just be a friend lol.

[Jedi Comedian]

Based upon what exactly? He could be bisexual for all we know.

1 thing is certain: he's definetly not gay. If he was he would be married to a cis man or a transman.

[Sifr]

The name is actually Maevaris, Mae is merely a diminutive for it, not using such isn't exactly disrespectful.

 

Which would be fine if the issue was eschewing calling her "Mae" in favour of Maevaris.

 

The problem however is that neither of those feminine sounding names are being applied to her by some people. While it's not always rude to refer to someone by their surname, it does have the undertone of being disrespectful if applied to a trans individual, because it makes it sound like the speaker is rejecting their personal name in favour of the surname they always held, regardless of what their sex was at the time.

 

It'd be like referring to Caitlyn Jenner as simply "Jenner"... it's not being overtly rude by the speaker going so far as to openly state their intention to refuse to call her anything other than Bruce, but it does seem to deliberately go out of the way to not refer to her as Caitlyn either, making it seem like an intended slight and rejection of that identity.

[Hellion Rex]

1 thing is certain: he's definetly not gay. If he was he would be married to a cis man or a transman.

Lol, that still doesn't stop him from being interested in women AND men. He can be bi or straight.

[Qun00]

Well, he would have to be at least bisexual in order to enjoy giving Maevaris a handjob or being the bottom on wednesdays.

[Catilina]

Lol, that still doesn't stop him from being interested in women AND men. He can be bi or straight.

... but a gay man will never love a woman, even if she a trans woman ...

This was the starting point.

[Hellion Rex]

... but a gay man will never love a woman, even if she a trans woman ...
This was the starting point.

What's your point? My statement still stands. Thorold can be bi or straight. He obviously can't be gay.

[Hellion Rex]

Well, he would have to be at least bisexual in order to enjoy giving Maevaris a handjob or being the bottom on wednesdays.

And that's where the sexuality gets murky, I'd argue.

[Dai Grepher]

Please don't presume to speak for all players and tell them what romances they can enjoy or wish to play.

I didn't. I just agreed with someone.

I'm a straight male, who's played and enjoyed same-sex romances of both genders. I've played FemShep/Liara, FemShep/Kaidan, Fem!Warden/Alistair, Fem!Hawke/Isabela, Fem!Lavellan/Solas, Fem!Adaar/Sera... so pray tell, what does your wisdom state is the reason I should no longer enjoy them because as a player I happen to exist outside the various boxes that these particular couples tick?

I wrote nothing of the sort. I wrote players will follow their moral standards. Yours hold that there is nothing wrong with homosexual relationships between females, and so you are okay playing those. So what do your morals say about homosexual relationships between males?

Her name is Mae. You know it perfectly well, so please use it and gendered pronouns for her.

Why can't I just keep using the character's last name?

Referring to her by surname suggests you do not consider her first name to be valid, because it happened to be picked by her as a trans individual, rather than the likely male name she was given at birth. Don't play coy and pretend it wasn't an intentional snub of omission.

Are you sure you're not just projecting?

(The only time not using gendered pronouns should apply is when discussing protagonists, such as Shepard, the Warden, Hawke or the Inquisitor since you're accounting for the fact they can be either male or female.)

So what are you getting at here exactly? Are you trying to force me to change my style of reference regarding the Tilani character?

You know damn well why it's a problem.

No, I'm quite sure I don't.

I'll speak slowly, since you're clearly having difficulty here:

You'll have to type what you say, since I can't hear you.

Hawke is not a woman.

Hawke is not a man.

Hawke is the player character.

Hawke is Hawke to a lot of players because Hawke's gender is undefined by canon.

Mae is woman.

Mae is canonically a woman.

By using non-gendered pronouns for Mae you're deliberatly misgendering her.

So by not using any gender specific references at all, I am somehow "misgendering" the character? How is that realistically possible if I use no gender references whatsoever? Your claim is illogical.

You're attempting to play the wounded party card to make yourself into the victim here.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. A victim of what exactly? What offense has been committed against me that I should take grievance with?

No-one is fooled.

You are avoiding any pronouns.

You are avoiding her first name.

Tilani is a longer name and actually more difficult to spell than Mae.

"Tilani" flows better. Less chance of a typo. I wouldn't want to get the name wrong after all.

And why is it a problem to use the character's last name? Why is it a problem to take no action in regard to pronouns?

[Dai Grepher]

You say it's easier to say 'Cass' or 'Cassandra' than 'Pentaghast'.

It is.

The same is true for Mae.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Isn't Dai Grepher also the one who were against gay relationships a while back?

I don't remember ever commenting on the subject here. I do not object to homosexual relationships being featured in the games.

Hopefully not, but the slights against Mae do not seem encouraging even if that's not the case.

Ah, I was right. You are projecting.

What slights?

[Catilina]

What's your point? My statement still stands. Thorold can be bi or straight. He obviously can't be gay.

This was the starting point:

 

Qun00: "I could certainly romance him with a gay male character. I'm not excessively self-inserting as a player."

Me: "Why? Mae is a woman... why your gay male char could interest toward a woman? Ok, she is trans woman, but still woman... I can not believe that she was interested in a man who wants to see her as man. (Correct me if I'm wrong, I have not read the story) "

 

 

[Hellion Rex]

This was the starting point:

Qun00: "I could certainly romance him with a gay male character. I'm not excessively self-inserting as a player."
Me: "Why? Mae is a woman... why your gay male char could interest toward a woman? Ok, she is trans woman, but still woman... I can not believe that she was interested in a man who wants to see her as man. (Correct me if I'm wrong, I have not read the story) "

Thorold being bisexual does not imply he wants to see Mae as a man AT ALL. My statement was in response to someone's assertion that Thorold has to be straight as an arrow, which is not necessarily true at all.

[Catilina]

Thorold being bisexual does not imply he wants to see Mae as a man AT ALL. My statement was in response to someone's assertion that Thorold has to be straight as an arrow, which is not necessarily true at all.

Yes. I did not say that Thorold wants Mae to see as man. You just misunderstood me.  (You can blame my weak English)

[Jedi Comedian]

Thorold being bisexual does not imply he wants to see Mae as a man AT ALL. My statement was in response to someone's assertion that Thorold has to be straight as an arrow, which is not necessarily true at all.

Fiiiiiiine we don't really know Thorold's orientation, but he's definetly into women. That is all.

[thats1evildude]

Fiiiiiiine we don't really know Thorold's orientation, but he's definetly into women. That is all.

But what if Thorold was attracted to Maevaris because she was a trans woman with male parts attached? By your logic, because I'm not attracted to women with male genitals, that would make Thorold straight and make me gay.

Obviously, sexuality is a complicated subject, and it isn't as simple as being gay or straight when it comes to sexual attraction to transgender people.

[Jedi Comedian]

But what if Thorold was attracted to Maevaris because she was a trans woman with male parts attached? By your logic, because I'm not attracted to women with male genitals, that would make Thorold straight and make me gay.

Obviously, sexuality is a complicated subject, and it isn't as simple as being gay or straight when it comes to sexual attraction to transgender people.

Lol my "logic"... I simply supposed Mae is a post-op trans, hence why I said what I said.

According to someone who posted here liking trans women is the same as liking cis men, where's the "logic" in THAT?

[thats1evildude]

I don't think there IS such a thing as a post-op trans in Dragon Age. Remember, this is a pseudo-medieval setting, and I've not heard of any magic that lets you alter your body in that way.

[Jedi Comedian]

I don't think there IS such a thing as a post-op trans in Dragon Age. Remember, this is a pseudo-medieval setting, and I've not heard of any magic that lets you alter your body in that way.

All right then, if that's the case then I stand corrected. I just thought for some reason Mae didn't have a "you know what" hanging.

[Biotic Apostate]

I don't think there IS such a thing as a post-op trans in Dragon Age. Remember, this is a pseudo-medieval setting, and I've not heard of any magic that lets you alter your body in that way.

Post-op is the wrong term, since no operation is involved, but yeah, you can transition all the way using magic, but it's not specified what kind of magic it is.

https://youtu.be/8AKbtW4DDx8?t=86

[thats1evildude]

Well, I can't say with certainty, but Mae definitely has a very masculine body in Until We Sleep. And you'd think, as a magister, she would have access to magic that lets her go all the way.

Post-op is the wrong term, since no operation is involved, but yeah, you can transition all the way using magic, but it's not specified what kind of magic it is.
[url="https://youtu.be/8AK...AKbtW4DDx8?t=86[/url

Now, see, I take that as more of a hypothetical being offered up by the Inquisitor, not evidence that such magic exists.

[Iakus]

 

However... As much as I DO NOT view Dorian this way, there was one response earlier in this thread that made me think that Dorian was accepted by some folks simply because he looked, sounded, and acted in the way they expect gay men to act, including the acceptance aspect of his personal arc. In that sense, Dorian was the safe, predicable gay man, he didn't challenge their view of what it means to be a gay man, or of what a gay man looks, sounds, and acts like.

 

Okay, now I'm curious what I missed.  Because the only odd thing about Dorian's appearance or behavior was his propensity to misplace his left sleeve.

 

 I just figured Morrigan swiped it.

[thats1evildude]

(Said magic probably does exist, but it's probably pretty serious blood magic. Even the Mirror of Transformation doesn't let you change genders willy-nilly.)