720 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Comedian]

Well, now that I have the image of Maevaris' giant, veiny man-meat firmly solidified in my mind, I can say with certainty that I'm not interested in romancing her.

Look, my original point was just that I don't want to see Mae replace one of the female LIs who are interested in males. I don't want to see a scenario where there are three female party members in DA4 and one's gay, one's bisexual and one's Mae, who's the dudes-only exclusive romance.

I'm just asking not to have to sit through a very special episode about accepting our transgender brethren BECAUSE LOVE SHOULD HAVE NO LIMITS DAMMIT

I still think DA should go back having 4 bi LIs, 2 male/2 female, that way everyone gets at least 2 options. I couldn't care less 'bout realistic representation of sexualities.

Would've worked perfecty in every DA game IMO:

- Origins: Al, Leli, Morrigan, Zev.
- 2: Anders, Isa, Merril, Fenris.
- Inquisition: Cass, Cullen, Sera (yai!), Solas.

Heck even in ME:

- ME: Ash, Kaidan, Liara.
- ME2: Thane, Miranda, Jack, Jacob.
- ME3: Same as ME1.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

Well, now that I have the image of Maevaris' giant, veiny man-meat firmly solidified in my mind, I can say with certainty that I'm not interested in romancing her.
As the originator of this debacle, I just want to stress again that I have no problem with Mae's presence in the game or the franchise. I don't even have a problem with her as an LI per se for people who are into that sort of thing.
I just don't want to see Mae replace one of the female LIs who are interested in males. I don't want to see a scenario where there are three female party members in DA4 and one's gay, one's bisexual and one's Mae, who's the dudes-only exclusive romance.
I don't want this to occur to teach us a lesson about tolerance. I don't want to sit through a very special after-school episode about accepting our transgender brethren BECAUSE LOVE SHOULD KNOW NO BARRIERS DAMMIT. *Cue the Angels in America theme song*

You don't actually believe the devs would do this? Come on.

[Battlebloodmage]

I still think DA should go back having 4 bi LIs, 2 male/2 female, that way everyone gets at least 2 options. I couldn't care less 'bout realistic representation of sexualities.

Would've worked perfecty in every DA game IMO:

- Origins: Al, Leli, Morrigan, Zev.
- 2: Anders, Isa, Merril, Fenris.
- Inquisition: Cass, Cullen, Sera (yai!), Solas.

That still wouldn't fix the problem with Mae being one of the 4 options, meaning that straight guy will have a girl, and a girl on the inside only. Someone with the body with a male is not something a lot of the straight guys can overcome, and it's not bigotry if they can't overcome that. 

 

If you read in this thread, most people have no problem with Mae being a companion, it's just that the problem is whether or not she should be romanceable. Even with 4 options, she should be the 5th options, so that everyone has at least 2 choices that their general sexual preference is often attracted to. 

[Jedi Comedian]

That still wouldn't fix the problem with Mae being one of the 4 options, meaning that straight guy will have a girl, and a girl on the inside only. Someone with the body with a male is not something a lot of the straight guys can overcome, and it's not bigotry if they can't overcome that.

You misunderstand me, Mae would NOT be an option. I mean 2 cis gals/2 cis guys.

[Battlebloodmage]

You misunderstand me, Mae would NOT be an option. I mean 2 cis gals/2 cis guys.

I see, well, I have no problem with that. 

[nightscrawl]

I still think DA should go back having 4 bi LIs, 2 male/2 female, that way everyone gets at least 2 options. I couldn't care less 'bout realistic representation of sexualities.

Would've worked perfecty in every DA game IMO:

- Origins: Al, Leli, Morrigan, Zev.
- 2: Anders, Isa, Merril, Fenris.
- Inquisition: Cass, Cullen, Sera (yai!), Solas.

 
The ONLY reason they did that in DA2 is because of "fairness." David Gaider said several times, in numerous threads, that he would prefer to have set sexualities if resources permitted it. DAI allowed for this because they had the resources, which includes number of characters. There is no reason to think this general principle has changed.
 

As I've said before, I too would prefer set sexualities if all things were equal-- if I had enough resources that "realism" could be my biggest concern (ignoring for the moment how very subjective that is). But they're rarely equal, and in the case of DA2 simple fairness won out. As it should. I get that some people felt weird (for whatever reason) when they found out a character could romance someone of a different gender in another game... but I will not count that as being more important than allowing players a simple choice in who they romance, provided that it doesn't impact our ability to write the character. And it does not.

Also for DAI's romances, Allan stated,

If we did all bisexual romances, you'd have 4.  Let it be stated in no uncertain terms.

Having set sexualities in DAI actually allowed for more variety.

[thats1evildude]

You don't actually believe the devs would do this? Come on.

 

I wouldn't have thought Captain America would ever swear allegiance to Hydra, but then today happened.

 

As I said earlier, it's just a gut feeling. I can see the stars aligning in that direction. Smoke rises on the Mountain of Doom, and a sleepless malice stirs. The rats are in the corn, and silence will fall when the question is answered! WHEN HE RISES, EVERYONE WILL SEE!

[Battlebloodmage]

I wouldn't have thought Captain America would ever swear allegiance to Hydra, but then today happened.

So you're ok with 4 members, like if she's also a straight option? But there are 3 other girls who is straight, bisexual, and gay?

[thats1evildude]

So you're ok with 4 members, like if she's also a straight option? But there are 3 other girls who is straight, bisexual, and gay?

 

Sure, that'd be fine.

[nightscrawl]

So you're ok with 4 members, like if she's also a straight option? But there are 3 other girls who is straight, bisexual, and gay?

 

This would provide the same amount of options as in previous games: a cis straight woman and a cis bi woman (DAI added the cis gay woman), with Mae being extra.

 

If we just use our DAI roster, imagine that Vivienne is Mae, and a romance option. The straight guys into cis women don't lose anything.

[Jedi Comedian]

I just prefer having no more than 4 LIs, if not all bi then why not 2 str8/2 bi or 2 str8/ 2 gay?

Heck I'd be more than OK with only 1 male/1 fem, both bi.

[Battlebloodmage]

Sure, that'd be fine.

There should be no problem then. As long as we're all settled on that option, I'm guessing it would be the option they go with as well if Mae were an option. The controversy would outweight any benefit of having her as a romance option to even attempting to have her as the straight option. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I still think DA should go back having 4 bi LIs, 2 male/2 female, that way everyone gets at least 2 options. I couldn't care less 'bout realistic representation of sexualities.

Would've worked perfecty in every DA game IMO:

- Origins: Al, Leli, Morrigan, Zev.
- 2: Anders, Isa, Merril, Fenris.
- Inquisition: Cass, Cullen, Sera (yai!), Solas.

Heck even in ME:

- ME: Ash, Kaidan, Liara.
- ME2: Thane, Miranda, Jack, Jacob.
- ME3: Same as ME1.

No offense, but that is a terrible list for me. It removes my favorite LI of each franchise. 

[Jedi Comedian]

No offense, but that is a terrible list for me. It removes my favorite LI of each franchise.

Apologies, I guess I was taking only my own taste into account.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

I wouldn't have thought Captain America would ever swear allegiance to Hydra, but then today happened.

As I said earlier, it's just a gut feeling. I can see the stars aligning in that direction. Smoke rises on the Mountain of Doom, and a sleepless malice stirs. The rats are in the corn, and silence will fall when the question is answered! WHEN HE RISES, EVERYONE WILL SEE!

SPOILERS, dude.
Seriously though, your example would be the worst way possible to "teach" tolerance and would have the complete opposite affect, so I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I think having Mae as an additional LI, should she be in the game, would be more likely. I really do hope she is in the game, but I worry that she might not be in it, seeing as how DG has moved on.

[Jedi Comedian]

I wouldn't have thought Captain America would ever swear allegiance to Hydra, but then today happened.

Wish Bane crushed the souls and bodies of those puny Avengers, specially the Stark boy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Apologies, I guess I was taking only my own taste into account.

It's alright. I get where you were going with it in principle. I was just saying that that personally that screws me over. 

[Qun00]

Hey, I never, ever said otherwise, I always thought Mae had a V 'n' bewbs. But I haven't read the comic anyway.

Bioware is generous enough to give Mae a feminine face and Krem a masculine face. But an actual surgery or spell... no such thing, as far as we know.

[nightscrawl]

I still think DA should go back having 4 bi LIs, 2 male/2 female, that way everyone gets at least 2 options. I couldn't care less 'bout realistic representation of sexualities.

Would've worked perfecty in every DA game IMO:

- Origins: Al, Leli, Morrigan, Zev.
- 2: Anders, Isa, Merril, Fenris.
- Inquisition: Cass, Cullen, Sera (yai!), Solas.

Not a fan of this, since I lose Dorian. BUT I will say one thing, this method, and this list allows for a bi KISA of both genders with Alistair, Cullen, and Cassandra, so that's a plus, I suppose. It also has the side effect of eliminating the gay/bi rogue trope, since everyone is bi.


[edit]
I think there is also something to be said for having people be gay, straight, or bi, and having that be part of who they are. This doesn't mean that the character has to have it as part of their story line, or flirt with or screw everything that moves of their preferred gender, or anything like that, but as a feature of the person, just as it is in real life. I'd argue that having set sexualities is more about developing the character, and having all bi options is more about providing those options to the player out of fairness, as DG stated (obviously, I'm not including characters that are written as bi, but in having everyone be bi).

 

You also don't really challenge anyone's perspective with the all bi method, because it is clearly done for the player. You won't get the GAY KISA, particularly a male gay KISA, with this method and challenge that view of what a KISA is, or of what a gay man can be.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 25 mai 2016 - 11:11 .

[Thibax]

People are against a character because romance options?

Really?

 

If romance is important for the story, it's a thing, but DA games is not about love story. 

 

So what's the real problem?

 

Oh yes, personal interests.

 

People are giving more importance in some scenes than the whole game.

[Jedi Comedian]

Not a fan of this, since I lose Dorian. BUT I will say one thing, this method, and this list allows for a bi KISA of both genders with Alistair, Cullen, and Cassandra, so that's a plus, I suppose. It also has the side effect of eliminating the gay/bi rogue trope, since everyone is bi.


[edit]
I think there is also something to be said for having people be gay, straight, or bi, and having that be part of who they are. This doesn't mean that the character has to have it as part of their story line, or flirt with or screw everything that moves of their preferred gender, or anything like that, but as a feature of the person, just as it is in real life. I'd argue that having set sexualities is more about developing the character, and having all bi options is more about providing those options to the player out of fairness, as DG stated (obviously, I'm not including characters that are written as bi, but in having everyone be bi).

You also don't really challenge anyone's perspective with the all bi method, because it is clearly done for the player. You won't get the GAY KISA, particularly a male gay KISA, with this method and challenge that view of what a KISA is, or of what a gay man can be.

I know, but Zev, Isa, Cass and Sera REALLY turn me on, so... well, I'd rather just be able to bed exactly who I want, instead of realistically represent orientations.

[Biotic Apostate]

I think there is also something to be said for having people be gay, straight, or bi, and having that be part of who they are. This doesn't mean that the character has to have it as part of their story line, or flirt with or screw everything that moves of their preferred gender, or anything like that, but as a feature of the person, just as it is in real life. I'd argue that having set sexualities is more about developing the character, and having all bi options is more about providing those options to the player out of fairness, as DG stated (obviously, I'm not including characters that are written as bi, but in having everyone be bi).

 

You also don't really challenge anyone's perspective with the all bi method, because it is clearly done for the player. You won't get the GAY KISA, particularly a male gay KISA, with this method and challenge that view of what a KISA is, or of what a gay man can be.

That's exactly why I prefer set sexualities (if the number of companions and budget allows for that). Aside from fleshing out the character a little bit more, it also adds to LGBT representation that's harder to miss. While I enjoyed Danse's romance in FO4, I kept thinking how big it would be, if they made him a gay man. It would influence some people's way of thinking, what kinds of people can be gay. Instead we got someone, who's technically bi, but unless you flirt with him a few times and finish his quest, you will not see any confirmation of his sexuality. Most people will assume he's straight and move on. Great for providing options to players, but does nothing to LGBT representation.

[Battlebloodmage]

People are against a character because romance options?

Really?

 

If romance is important for the story, it's a thing, but DA games is not about love story. 

 

So what's the real problem?

 

Oh yes, personal interests.

 

People are giving more importance in some scenes than the whole game.

People are NOT against a character because of a romance options. Most are in favor of Mae becoming a character in the game, they're NOT in favor of a character becoming a LI that may be a part of the core option, something that Bioware probably wouldn't do. 

[Battlebloodmage]

That's exactly why I prefer set sexualities (if the number of companions and budget allows for that). Aside from fleshing out the character a little bit more, it also adds to LGBT representation that's harder to miss. While I enjoyed Danse's romance in FO4, I kept thinking how big it would be, if they made him a gay man. It would influence some people's way of thinking, what kinds of people can be gay. Instead we got someone, who's technically bi, but unless you flirt with him a few times and finish his quest, you will not see any confirmation of his sexuality. Most people will assume he's straight and move on. Great for providing options to players, but does nothing to LGBT representation.

To be fair, Hancock has guys coming up and hit on him, not just girls.

 

 

There are various gay characters in Fallout 4 outside of the romance options.

[nightscrawl]

I know, but Zev, Isa, Cass and Sera REALLY turn me on, so... well, I'd rather just be able to bed exactly who I want, instead of realistically represent orientations.

You kind of missed half of my point though, which is about the difference in writing for the character rather than the player. I don't care about realism as something that should be striven for above all other considerations, and that wasn't the overall point of my statement. Nothing about any of these games is realistic, down to the fact that we do have all of these people available to romance, regardless of sexuality, and we're all great looking and fit and everything else. The statement about real life is to say that it is already something that exists, sexuality being a feature of a person, so it's not like the devs would be creating something new.
 
And sorry, but representation IS important. These people exist. It's not only about getting to bed whomever you want. Representation is about showing that those people exist in the world, and among the player base. The same is also true for women and people of color.
 
I'd also urge you to read some of the posts in the Gay KISA thread to see why it is that having that type of character is important to some people. It's not even about romance (that's a bonus), but of having a gay person represented in that way which is rare in media.