566 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

The fact that there are soldiers with different body builds is true. Howewer, considering that, with a single body model, you have to try to please more people that you can, I think a miggle ground between the Femshep models and some more muscolar female body build can be arranged.

Everything would be easier with a body slider, or at least different body types though. The fact that they were considering it for DAI makes me a bit hopeful they might introduce them in Andromeda.

[o Ventus]

There's frequently a problem of reality is unrealistic when it comes to people's expectations of the appearance of a military protagonist. 

 

Several of my older family members had served in the military before they passed, and I work in the kind of business where we offer military perks and discounts. I have met a lot of people in the army and air force, and most of them are not as sculpted and bulky as people on the internet seem to consider "realistic." In fact, most of the military women I've met are pretty slender, clearly athletic, but not obviously muscular. 

 

Maybe it's different for the marines, of whom I haven't met as many, but my experience is that weight lifters or body builders--80's action movie stars--tend to skew the expectation of what military characters should look like, at least in the U.S. These are people who, while they're definitely strong, are commonly more motivated by making themselves look a particular way than any practical application.

 

Anyway, Vasquez muscles would be too much for me (I'm with those who would prefer a toned Emily Blunt in Edge of tomorrow look), but I'm not opposed to that body type being an option. The ideal case would be body sliders, but that can be prohibitive when it comes to cut scenes, and cinematic content is higher priority for me than most CC variations.

 

It's funny you mention the military, people expect soldiers to looks like Chris Evans in that scene from Captain America: Civil War where he's holding down a helicopter. His muscles look like Popeye's after eating a can of spinach.

 

 

And this image is BEFORE he flexes to the point of turning into a Super Saiyan. People forget that even though he actually is a military character, Captain America is by no means a regular human.

[o Ventus]

Tey Black Canary has poifect musk Ls.

 

 

 

I met Caity Lotz at a Comic-Con back in 2014 and got her autograph. She's super cool. She should be in way more stuff, I'm actually sad she's most known for Arrow, which continues to sh*t itself worse and worse with each new season past the first.

[Lady Artifice]

To be fair, Cap is a genetically modified super soldier who looks significantly more muscular than a lot of the other soldiers depicted in the MEU.

 

But yeah, people tend to mistakenly interpret that as a default when they see it often enough.

[The Elder King]

To be fair, Cap is a genetically modified super soldier who looks significantly more muscular than a lot of the other soldiers depicted in the MEU.

 

But yeah, people tend to mistakenly interpret that as a default when they see it often enough.

Indeed. 

Though I don't think that many people want (at least as a single body model) the PC to look like Chris Evans (there is someone, certainly). Shep in ME3 is already buffed up compared to previous games.

I doubt they'll make the PC look anything like Chris Evans if there's not a body slider/types in the game.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

The fact that there are soldiers with different body builds is true. Howewer, considering that, with a single body model, you have to try to please more people that you can, I think a miggle ground between the Femshep models and some more muscolar female body build can be arranged.

Everything would be easier with a body slider, or at least different body types though. The fact that they were considering it for DAI makes me a bit hopeful they might introduce them in Andromeda.

It's more visual symbolism to me than pleasing me as an individual.

 

What would please me is If I could customize a character to look exactly like me, and thus the femPC would be very short, like 4'10 short, and small framed. She would also be more a scientist-type or smuggler rather than a badass soldier at the top of her field.

 

 

For me femShep is unpleasantly tall, in ME3 especially, I noticed how she towered over another female alliance soldier passing by her in the opening scene on Earth and she was, at least to me, 4 to 6 inches taller than Thane, which I do not want to be taller than my space boyfriend. With femShep she is supposed to be the best of the best and visually she looked ordinary. She was supermodel tall and nearly supermodel thin.

 

In Aliens, Vasquez was the only female soldier that had that level of muscular definition (she was one of two marines that held those huge smart guns, seen below) because she was being portrayed as this super badass character, and yet the actress is 5'3 and curvy, but it worked because she looked hard and tough. Ferro (the pilot) and Dietrich (the medic seen below) were less muscular female marines, not as tough looking. If I am limited to one body type and have something to do with N7/military soldier, I want my femPC to look tough and strong, not like a waifish supermodel. 

 

 

But in the end I will settle for anything, just please no more twig arms, or the skinny 5'9/6'0 supermodel look.

 

[Element Zero]

Yes, normal military personnel look like normal, fit people. How many people on here hang out with elite counter terror SpecOps guys on a daily basis? Those are the guys in whose image N7s are obviously modeled. (I realize our protagonist is not a confirmed N7; but realistically, with the big deal they make out of the N7 label, do you expect it not to happen?)

I don't know any of those guys, in real life. I know only what I've read in their autobiographies. From what I've read, you might be a normal looking guy when you go into SEAL training (using US Navy SpecOps as an example), and you might stay a relatively normal looking guy as a SEAL. SEALs are incredibly fit, but no particular mold or look is prevalent. Once you get into the elite of the elite, SEAL Team VI in the Navy world, those guys don't look just fit-- they are jacked. Again. This isn't first a hand knowledge. I get this from their own autobiographies. Take from it what you will.

I'm not suggesting that all N7s need to be "jacked", but I think comparing them to your average serviceman is a bit disingenuous. N7s probably aren't climbing wet oil rigs or ships under way in stormy seas, so,maybe they don't need to be quite as imposing, physically. Still, an N7 should be a cut above. They should be fitter, tougher, and should not share body morphs with your average Alliance marine.

EDIT: This was posted in general response to all of the "military personnel look normal posts, not in reply to one post in particular. I didn't want you thinking this was a response to your past above, StarSprinkled. I took so long typing this, I hadn't even seen your post, yet.

[NoForgiveness]

lol! I did. That's why I asked. I saw nothing cowardly about her. She was just smarter than that idiot Rafe

I can't remember how to do spoilers so i'll just say she was physically superior and a better fighter than Drake and the environment was in her favor(because it was small area that would've forced a hand-to hand fight).

I met Caity Lotz at a Comic-Con back in 2014 and got her autograph. She's super cool. She should be in way more stuff, I'm actually sad she's most known for Arrow, which continues to sh*t itself worse and worse with each new season past the first.

I'm semi Jealous.

[Undead Han]

Spec Ops people aren't all jacked up either,actually. Some are of course, but certainly not all. You do need to be incredibly fit, but fit doesn't necessarily mean being built like a fullback.

[Lady Artifice]

^ What Han said. A lot of exercise and physical power simply doesn't necessarily equate to someone becoming "jacked." Most people who have the extremely muscular look are weight lifting in a very particular exercise routine with the specific intent of looking that way in mind. Very few people with military careers have that much time to dedicate to their appearance.

 

I'm not saying it can't happen mind you, but the appearance of enormous muscles is not necessarily a guaranteed result of all serious physical fitness.

[Selene Moonsong]

Not all male military personnel are muscular like Vega, the majority are of average build with some more athletic than others. The same is true of women. In both cases both male and female have a wide variety of shapes and sizes in the military (US).

 

In Fem Shep's case she has a little more muscular definition in ME 3 than she had in ME or ME 2. However, since I usually play as a Biotic or engineer, that didn't bother me much. But, even as a soldier, her build was not necessarily weak, just a little more fit among the average build. You also need to include all the 'upgrades' Fem Shep and Male Shep gets in the games (especially in ME 2) both he and she have far more strength than they would appear to have. So, it doesn't bother me that they don't look like body builders.

 

However, I wouldn't mind more body types at all, and I would actually welcome such options. Now I realize that they cannot be extremely different due to animation synchronization issues between two characters of vastly different sizes interacting with each other, but some variety would be very welcome.

 

The one thing that bothered me the most is the Fem Shep animations almost always have her looking too much like a male when walking, running, or even sitting, which looks especially ridiculous those times where she was wearing a dress.

 

I would suggest a small range of options for the way a character moves as well to make things a bit more natural and reflect a little more personality rather than rigid and too similar of the opposite genders.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

For those talikng about average vs. above average in special forces military: What do you mean?

 

 

For me, maleShep fits in well with these guys, and in fact he looks stronger:

 

 

 

FemShep more these girls:

 

 

Modifié par StarSprinkled, 24 mai 2016 - 12:14 .

[Element Zero]

Spec Ops people aren't all jacked up either,actually. Some are of course, but certainly not all. You do need to be incredibly fit, but fit doesn't necessarily mean being built like a fullback.

I'm thinking in particular about those twiggy arms. You would never find those twiggy arms on a man or woman who is expected to haul themself up (or down) the sides of buildings, oil rigs, or who knows what else. All that extra beef of a fullback build could actually make life tougher on that guy. Bodies are as unique as faces, really. I just thought all these "soldiers look like normal people" responses were swinging a bit too far in the other direction.

I think this again, like pretty much every aesthetic discussion, comes down to how realistic people want the game to be. Do we need the protagonist to be super fit because that's what the real world would realistically demand? Probably not. We each want to be able to create a character that fits our individual image for our MEA hero. Hopefully, they'll give us some good and plentiful options.

[Element Zero]

For those talikng about average vs. above average in special forces military. What do you mean?


For me, maleShep fits in well with these guys:





FemShep more these girls:

That's a good example of what I was talking about. Those guys are prospective SEALs. They look fit. They'll likely get even more fit, but they aren't freakishly fit looking. The guys who are part of SEAL Team VI (the CT team) require a whole different level of fitness, particularly in upper body strength, because of the ridiculous requirements of their job.

N7s are clearly inspired by SEAL Team VI, Delta Force, the SAS, etc... The best of the best. They should be ME3 Sheploo fit, not ME1 fit. It isn't even about being "cut" or defined, though they likely are. It's about not having skinny arms. FemShep couldn't even lift the Revenant LMG with those arms, let alone fire it.

[MrBSN2017]

I can't speak for all branches, just the best. Physical fitness is very important and one should always be striving for a perfect score on their physical fitness test. At least thats how it is in the Marines. I've met some of the most inspirational, in shape, badaxes in the world. No not everyone is going for sub 10% bf but try running 3 miles in under 18 minutes and tell me you won't look "fit". Let's also not base our military as a whole on its worst members.

As for how this applies to this thread, nobody wants to play a video game about Pvt Pyle, whom due to popping hot on a pis test, is spending his weekends in the barracks on restriction cleaning bathrooms and getting hazed because his bf% is too high. Why not play the best the military has to offer?

[Lady Artifice]

 

For those talikng about average vs. above average in special forces military: What do you mean?

 

 

The examples I've been frequently using are 80's action film stars like Schwarzenegger in Commando and Stallone in Rambo 2, and Vasquez in Aliens.

 

Some people seem to believe that degree of bulk would be a change for greater realism in video game protagonists, and I disagree. Both male and female Shepard had perfectly reasonable athletic body types, aside from FemShep's gangly stick arms. I'd prefer they went with someone more toned than that, but I oppose the idea that female military personal can't realistically be slender, because I know for a fact that they can.

[Undead Han]

I'm thinking in particular about those twiggy arms. You would never find those twiggy arms on a man or woman who is expected to haul themself up (or down) the sides of buildings, oil rigs, or who knows what else. All that extra beef of a fullback build could actually make life tougher on that guy. Bodies are as unique as faces, really. I just thought all these "soldiers look like normal people" responses were swinging a bit too far in the other direction.
I think this again, like pretty much every aesthetic discussion, comes down to how realistic people want the game to be. Do we need the protagonist to be super fit because that's what the real world would realistically demand? Probably not. We each want to be able to create a character that fits our individual image for our MEA hero. Hopefully, they'll give us some good and plentiful options.

I agree about the arms. You do need to be able to pull your own body weight plus the weight of all your combat gear over obstacles like walls and such, as well as being physically capable of fireman carrying other people (although technique makes that much easier than it looks), so some degree of upper body strength is needed.

The worst part of the arms though was just how disproportionate it was to the rest of the body, which was rather fit.

[Lady Artifice]

Restating for the record, I've seen no one in this thread earnestly argue that members of the military don't tend to be physically fit, and I've certainly never even come close to doing so.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

The examples I've been frequently using are 80's action film stars like Schwarzenegger in Commando and Stallone in Rambo 2, and Vasquez in Aliens.

 

Some people seem to believe that degree of bulk would be a change for greater realism in video game protagonist's, and I disagree. Both male and female Shepard had perfectly reasonable athletic body types, aside from FemShep's gangly stick arms. I'd prefer they went with someone more toned than that, but I oppose the idea that female military personal can't realistically be slender, because I know for a fact that they can.

Vasquez is not in the same category as Arnold and Sylvester:

 

But this lady from Nemesis is, and I am not suggesting this:

 

 

 

 

 

Restating for the record, I've seen no one in this thread earnestly argue that members of the military don't tend to be physically fit, and I've certainly never even come close to doing so.

 

 

Perhaps someone should start a thread saying please give the male main character a realistic body this time, not overly muscled and tall. He'd still be fit, just not action 80s flick. For me, the difference between top special forces soldier slender femShep/muscular maleShep, is starling.

[Undead Han]

The examples I've been frequently using are 80's action film stars like Schwarzenegger in Commando and Stallone in Rambo 2, and Vasquez in Aliens.

Some people seem to believe that degree of bulk would be a change for greater realism in video game protagonists, and I disagree. Both male and female Shepard had perfectly reasonable athletic body types, aside from FemShep's gangly stick arms. I'd prefer they went with someone more toned than that, but I oppose the idea that female military personal can't realistically be slender, because I know for a fact that they can.

I'm sure that if Bioware pulled folks in from the Canadian military to model their characters, the result would probably be criticized as being too thin. That would likely be the case even if one of those two people was from their special operations regiment.

Male Shep was more muscular than the average military male and Fem Shep was a bit closer to an average female Marine, other than the arms. Both have been criticized as too thin occasionally over the years.

Not that military characters in the series need to look like the average military person in the real world of course, but it's worth pointing out in these threads (repeatedly) that what is actually realistic, is often a bit different from popular imagination.

[MrBSN2017]

As for reference, I found a pic of me 21 y/o virgo in country next to my wack shack. If you look hard enough you can see my M4 with M203 attachment.


And I wasn't even considered big, just "athletically built".

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

I'm sure that if Bioware pulled folks in from the Canadian military to model their characters, the result would probably be criticized as being too thin. That would likely be the case even if one of those two people was from the SAS.

Male Shep was more muscular than the average military male and Fem Shep was a bit closer to an average female Marine, other than the arms. Both have been criticized as too thin occasionally over the years.

Not that military characters in the series need to look like the average military person in the real world of course, but it's worth pointing out in these threads (repeatedly) that what is actually realistic, is a bit different from popular perception.

I have seen complaints about this guy being too thin, and "I hope this skinny guy isn't the protagonist":

 

 

He looks fine to me! Actually he's hot. Hope I can romance him.

[Undead Han]

I have seen complaints about this guy being too thin, and "I hope this skinny guy isn't the protagonist":
 

 
He looks fine to me! Actually he's hot. Hope I can romance him.

I think he's a mook. He was getting attacked by two characters who looked like they might be Drack and Cora, two rumored squad mates. Plus the facial tattoo seems like something that wouldn't end up on Bioware's default, even if they were options in the CC.

I'd be very surprised though if all male human characters, including the male version of the protagonist, didn't share the same body model. If so, want to take bets on how long it takes for the "Bro Ryder is Too Thin, Bruh!" thread to surface?

[Pasquale1234]

Most people who have the extremely muscular look are weight lifting in a very particular exercise routine with the specific intent of looking that way in mind.

You sure about that? I've known some extremely muscular people who lift weights because they enjoy it, and plan their routines to constantly challenge themselves - not with any particular appearance goals in mind.

ETA:



I've never been terribly fond of this overall body shape. The model is very hippy, very bottom heavy, more pear-shaped than hourglass shaped. I'd like to see more balance between the shoulders and the hip area.

[AresKeith]

I'd be very surprised though if all male human characters, including the male version of the protagonist, didn't share the same body model. If so, want to take bets on how long it takes for the "Bro Ryder is Too Thin, Bruh!" thread to surface?

 

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