1599 réponses à ce sujet

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I do come to miss all of the fun trolls and other people that keep this forum entertaining eventually

[Xilizhra]

how on Earth have you not been banned

Moderator laziness giveth and moderator laziness taketh away.

[Vit246]

Moderator laziness giveth and moderator laziness taketh away.

 

Maybe its a blessing from the Creators. The Gaze of The Moderator is known to cause petrification.

[Qun00]

May Fen'harel catch his scent.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Sounds like I inflicted open wounds and lacerations to people.

[Steelcan]

Moderator laziness giveth and moderator laziness taketh away.

take away what?  Posts that they don't like?  Cause that's about all I've seen them remove in the past few months.

[Xilizhra]

take away what?  Posts that they don't like?  Cause that's about all I've seen them remove in the past few months.

If I was in charge, I would impose the rule of the Dragon Age subreddit: "Trolling, flaming, insulting others, homophobic/sexist/bigot[ed] remarks will not be tolerated and will result in one warning."

[Steelcan]

If I was in charge, I would impose the rule of the Dragon Age subreddit: "Trolling, flaming, insulting others, homophobic/sexist/bigot[ed] remarks will not be tolerated and will result in one warning."

If I were in charge bad things would happen because I know nothing about moderating a forum and would likely start abusing my authority on posters I don't like.

[Qun00]

Heh. At least you're honest.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I do come to miss all of the fun trolls and other people that keep this forum entertaining eventually

Hey if you still sore about our last battle, just keep on stepping and go with the flow. Charge it to the game.

[TheJediSaint]

If I were in charge bad things would happen because I know nothing about moderating a forum and would likely start abusing my authority on posters I don't like.

Would it look something like this?

 

[Dai Grepher]

The thing about a belief system is that it doesn't need to be based on anything true, just as long as enough people believe in it to be. We're told that Maker worship was a fringe cult in Tevinter until Andraste came along, who began claiming to have received visions from him, something not uncommon when it comes to religious figures.

Right, but in context of BioWare and storyline, if they make a storyline that debunks claims about the Maker or even Andraste, then it does in essence disprove the existence of "The Maker" as a character. There could still be some divine creator being, but it would not have the characteristics of the Maker.

As for what characters in the DA universe believe, I'm sure there will be many who will continue to believe in the Maker no matter what. That's not my point. My point is in regards to what direction BioWare will take the series regarding the nature of that universe's existence.

Whether or not Andraste was a fraud doesn't disprove the Maker, but the point remains that we cannot accept the Chantry's version as true simply because a lot of people currently believe that to be the case.

No argument from me on what Andrastians believe. Of course their belief doesn't make it true. But in context of how we the players perceive the storyline, if Andraste was a fraud then the Chant is a lie and there is no "Maker". There's no reason for us to believe that the world had such an origin. We may as well believe that the world came about through random chaotic means.

In a similar manner, we know that the Evanuris were a bunch of ancient mage warlords who formed their own personality cults, but I doubt the Dalish will readily accept this revelation disproving their religion should the subject arise in any future games, if the Inquisitor made this knowledge public post-Trespasser.

Correct. But we have no reason to believe the evanuris were or are gods. The humans in the DA universe also have no reason to believe they were anything other than powerful mages.

People will continue to have faith, but at some point reason has to kick in. If there is irrefutable proof that something isn't true, then continuing to believe in it doesn't make the person faithful, it makes them an idiot.

It had the name "Golden City" to Corypheus in his time; the title "Black City" wasn't adopted until well afterward. Additionally, if it was always visible in the Fade in the same way it is now, it probably looked golden from outside, but was filled with nothing but darkness and corruption within.

It looked golden because it was golden. It looks black now because it is black now. Corypheus may have called it the Golden City all his life, but if he went there and it was black when he arrived, then he should have realized since then that it was never a golden city but rather a black city. He had regained some of his senses by the time Inquisition took place, so he had plenty of time to think about what happened. From his memory crystals we learn that he has thought about it. So there's no reason he would call it the Golden City if he truly thought it was black all along.

The evidence suggests that it was called the Golden City because it was golden and mages observed this in the Fade. That means it was turned black. It currently appears black because it is black, and this can also be observed in the Fade.

Banter with Cole reveals that Corypheus' memory is like a burned painting. The parts about the Golden City are like the burned edges, where he can't quite remember exactly what happened. Mother Giselle theorizes that Corypheus has to lie to himself because he's ashamed of what he did.

I think his desperate plea reveals the truth. The city was golden when he found it, and he and the others turned it black. He also calls out to Dumat even though Dumat was destroyed. He's just going back to what he remembers because he knows he lost.

Yeah, I think it's way more compelling if it was already corrupted when he got there.
 
If this was the real world, I'd say it's more plausible he's lying because he's got the motivation to do it, as Dai noted, and it being true requires more things we believe or know to be true to be wrong.  But since this is a narrative, I think it's more plausible that he is telling the truth, and this is a big revelation that will call into question the things we believe to be true. It's more a satisfying delivery on the set-up.

I think it's already been proven that he was lying.

But what that means for Andrastian's beliefs and history, I don't know. It could be a radical shift because Andrastre was not divinely inspired, or it could indicate something else. After all, Andrastre's own words could have been used in ways she didn't intend. Texts that didn't support this reading could have been suppressed, etc. If you look at the history of most religious text, there's a lot of struggle for what is included vs what's left out and its all about political/philosophical disagreements not what is "true", and we have precedent in this already with Shartan. There's absolutely a political dimension to Tevinter being the cause for the Black City, after all.

If the Chant is proven wrong, then the only way a valid belief in the Maker can endure is if new evidence is found stating that Andraste said things that were completely different from what was attributed to her. Basically, she was right, but what was said about her or in her name was made up.

However, I think the Guardian and the Gauntlet proves that the Chant is correct.

[Xilizhra]

It looked golden because it was golden. It looks black now because it is black now. Corypheus may have called it the Golden City all his life, but if he went there and it was black when he arrived, then he should have realized since then that it was never a golden city but rather a black city. He had regained some of his senses by the time Inquisition took place, so he had plenty of time to think about what happened. From his memory crystals we learn that he has thought about it. So there's no reason he would call it the Golden City if he truly thought it was black all along.

The evidence suggests that it was called the Golden City because it was golden and mages observed this in the Fade. That means it was turned black. It currently appears black because it is black, and this can also be observed in the Fade.

Banter with Cole reveals that Corypheus' memory is like a burned painting. The parts about the Golden City are like the burned edges, where he can't quite remember exactly what happened. Mother Giselle theorizes that Corypheus has to lie to himself because he's ashamed of what he did.

I think his desperate plea reveals the truth. The city was golden when he found it, and he and the others turned it black. He also calls out to Dumat even though Dumat was destroyed. He's just going back to what he remembers because he knows he lost.

It was gold on the outside, black on the inside.

[Qun00]

It was gold on the outside, black on the inside.

Ohhhh... like a chocolate bar with caramel coating!

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

[Dai Grepher]

Why would it be golden if it houses the taint? That makes no sense.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Corypheus' account is kind of muddled (perhaps on purpose) because not only do his words in Legacy potentially lend themselves to either the city being black all along or turning black during his visit, but even in Inquisition he seems to give contradictory versions of his story.

 

In In Your Heart Shall Burn he says he found only corruption and dead whispers, but in Doom Upon the World he says he has walked the halls of the Golden City. In the alternate timeline from In Hushed Whispers his followers also described him as "He Who has Waked in the Golden City."

 

We also know from history that the City looked gold in Corypheus' day and turned visibly black when the Magisters did their experiment. Exactly what the deal is with the Black City is still not entirely clear yet.

[Xilizhra]

Why would it be golden if it houses the taint? That makes no sense.

The taint would be sealed on the inside. The walls of the prison would be golden with the magic used to seal the taint away, but once the city was breached, the taint flowed out and covered the outside of the city as well.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

The taint would be sealed on the inside. The walls of the prison would be golden with the magic used to seal the taint away, but once the city was breached, the taint flowed out and covered the outside of the city as well.

Alternatively, it was the same principle as an angler fish. Use a shiny bauble to attract prey.

[Iakus]

The taint would be sealed on the inside. The walls of the prison would be golden with the magic used to seal the taint away, but once the city was breached, the taint flowed out and covered the outside of the city as well.

Then the question becomes, why hasn't it spread since?

[Xilizhra]

Then the question becomes, why hasn't it spread since?

I don't think the Golden City was made of the same material as the raw Fade, and I don't think that the taint can travel through the latter on its own.

[Dai Grepher]

Ah ha! Then why seal the taint inside the Golden City if it can't spread through the Fade?

[Lulupab]

Yes there is a very convincing theory that the blight cannot spread if the veil doesn't exist and fade is part of the waking world.

[Lulupab]

Ah ha! Then why seal the taint inside the Golden City if it can't spread through the Fade?

 

So that no one can reach it? Not easily anyway. The Magisters used TONS of lyrium and hundreds of blood sacrifices to get inside. Go figure.

 

If it was just in the fade, they could access it on their dreams. Literally.

[The Ascendant]

Were all Elves immortal or was it just the mages?