1603 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If "it was a natural part of being elven" as Solas says, it would have been all of them I would guess.

[Lulupab]

They were either immortal or were able to reverse aging by going into long sleeps, either way they didn't die with old age.

[Xilizhra]

Ah ha! Then why seal the taint inside the Golden City if it can't spread through the Fade?

Because any dreamer could wander in and pick it up if it wasn't sealed.

[Iakus]

Were all Elves immortal or was it just the mages?

Solas heavily implies that all elves were mages.

 

He says Thedas now is like a world full of Tranquil to him.

[Iakus]

Because any dreamer could wander in and pick it up if it wasn't sealed.

I'm inclined to disagree.  I think that something does in fact live in the Blackened City that is the source of the taint.

 

When you enter the Fade in DAI and Solas talks about how close they are to the City, Cole chimes in;

 

 They still remember when they were higher, before it woke up and everything fell.

 

emphasis mine.

 

I suspect something is imprisoned there.  Maybe an Evanuris.  Maybe a Forgotten One.  Heck maybe the Maker.  And the magisters 'woke it up" at least momentarily.  And it had a lasting effect on the Fade, Thedas, everything.

[Ghost Gal]

Were all Elves immortal or was it just the mages?

 

All elves were both immortal and mages.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm inclined to disagree.  I think that something does in fact live in the Blackened City that is the source of the taint.

 

When you enter the Fade in DAI and Solas talks about how close they are to the City, Cole chimes in;

 

 They still remember when they were higher, before it woke up and everything fell.

 

emphasis mine.

 

I suspect something is imprisoned there.  Maybe an Evanuris.  Maybe a Forgotten One.  Heck maybe the Maker.  And the magisters 'woke it up" at least momentarily.  And it had a lasting effect on the Fade, Thedas, everything.

I'm wondering if the Taint is perhaps a byproduct of this entity's existence, and waking it, at least briefly, allowed for the Taint to begin seeping out of the city.

 

 

Also, I wonder if it's related to this codex:

"Terrible, to sacrifice one's own child with a lie. I preyed on perfectly trusting faith, but how could I explain my desperation? The Deep Roads wind in deceitful spirals, concealing the sigil from casual observance. I could not discern its true pattern until I stood in the Fade and gazed down upon the vast malevolent engraving. Its artist remains unknown, but its horrifying intent was all too clear - as was my necessity. I only wish it had not cost you, my only child. I could not build the locked barriers that would carve the marks and break the sigil. You alone could save us all, but only by destroying yourself. And I let you do it. Forgive me."

 

http://dragonage.wik...es_of_Segrummar

[Qun00]

Just stumbled upon this. I've no idea where it's from but it still works as illustration for that moment when the Keeper is applying the vallaslin to an young elf.

[Dai Grepher]

So that no one can reach it? Not easily anyway. The Magisters used TONS of lyrium and hundreds of blood sacrifices to get inside. Go figure.
 
If it was just in the fade, they could access it on their dreams. Literally.

They used lyrium and bloodmagic to get into the Fade, not the Golden City.

Dreamers only go to the Fade in spirit, not in physical form. If it could spread through spirits, then it would still be spreading.

Because any dreamer could wander in and pick it up if it wasn't sealed.

Then any spirit could pick it up now, but they don't. I know the lore says spirits and demons avoid it, but maybe everyone would have avoided it had it been black all along. Also, a dreamer goes to the Fade in spirit, and the premise of this discussion was that the taint can't spread that way.

Also, I grant that your answer is a fair one in theory, but I think you might be overlooking the point of sealing something away. It's meant to close it off forever. Why would the door be built in a way so that it could be opened again? Why not wall off the door so that no one could open it?

The way the lore states it, the Magisters simply walked up to it and opened the door and walked into the throne room with no resistance.

[Xilizhra]

Then any spirit could pick it up now, but they don't. I know the lore says spirits and demons avoid it, but maybe everyone would have avoided it had it been black all along. Also, a dreamer goes to the Fade in spirit, and the premise of this discussion was that the taint can't spread that way.

Also, I grant that your answer is a fair one in theory, but I think you might be overlooking the point of sealing something away. It's meant to close it off forever. Why would the door be built in a way so that it could be opened again? Why not wall off the door so that no one could open it?

The way the lore states it, the Magisters simply walked up to it and opened the door and walked into the throne room with no resistance.

What lore do you speak of? The Chant of Light?

[Dai Grepher]

That, and Corypheus' claims. Either it was always black and he arrived in darkness, or it was golden and he simply walked into the throne room and saw an empty throne, then was corrupted.

[Iakus]

What lore do you speak of? The Chant of Light?

From the Codex entry "The Black City"

 

The Chant teaches that the Black City was once the seat of the Maker, from whence He ruled the Fade, left empty when men turned away from Him. Dreamers do not go there, nor do spirits. Even the most powerful demons seem to avoid the place.

 

The text is supposed to be from a book called "Beyond the Veil: Spirits and Demons by Enchanter Mirdromel

[Iakus]

 
Also, I grant that your answer is a fair one in theory, but I think you might be overlooking the point of sealing something away. It's meant to close it off forever. Why would the door be built in a way so that it could be opened again? Why not wall off the door so that no one could open it?
 

Maybe the Golden City wasn't meant to be a prison originally?  Perhaps it really was the home of some god or other powerful being (the Maker, Evanuris, whatever) and it was used as a trap due to its general inaccessibility.  The Golden City is supposedly equidistant from everywhere else in the Fade, and cannot be reached through normal mundane or magical means.  Thus freeing whatever's in it should be impossible.  But then the magisters went and pointed out a flaw in that idea...

[Xilizhra]

That, and Corypheus' claims. Either it was always black and he arrived in darkness, or it was golden and he simply walked into the throne room and saw an empty throne, then was corrupted.

Well, we know that there won't ever be evidence for the Maker... it's possible that it wasn't a prison, per se, just a place where the taint was and only had to be jostled a bit to infect the rest of the city.

[Iakus]

Well, we know that there won't ever be evidence for the Maker... it's possible that it wasn't a prison, per se, just a place where the taint was and only had to be jostled a bit to infect the rest of the city.

The thing is, though, the taint seems to need a living thing to corrupt.  For a given value of "living" a least.  People, animals, plants.  Even lyrium, which is, it seems, alive on some level.  

 

So, if the taint was in the Golden City and corrupted it...what was it corrupting?

[Xilizhra]

The thing is, though, the taint seems to need a living thing to corrupt.  For a given value of "living" a least.  People, animals, plants.  Even lyrium, which is, it seems, alive on some level.  

 

So, if the taint was in the Golden City and corrupted it...what was it corrupting?

Thus strongly implying that the Golden City is itself alive.

[Iakus]

Thus strongly implying that the Golden City is itself alive.

An interesting possibility.  But why a city?  Did it choose that form, or was it created and shaped by yet another being?

[Dai Grepher]

Maybe the Golden City wasn't meant to be a prison originally?  Perhaps it really was the home of some god or other powerful being (the Maker, Evanuris, whatever) and it was used as a trap due to its general inaccessibility.  The Golden City is supposedly equidistant from everywhere else in the Fade, and cannot be reached through normal mundane or magical means.  Thus freeing whatever's in it should be impossible.  But then the magisters went and pointed out a flaw in that idea...

Okay, not a prison originally, but when it was turned into one... why wasn't it made a better one than that?

It seems implausible. This dark evil was locked away and the jailers assumed no one would be able to reach it? They made no extra safeguards against any possible interlopers?

Well, we know that there won't ever be evidence for the Maker... it's possible that it wasn't a prison, per se, just a place where the taint was and only had to be jostled a bit to infect the rest of the city.

This theory relies on ambiguity. Just seems strange that a blackness would exist in a golden palace or throne room and it would not turn it black from the inside but does from the outside.

Thus strongly implying that the Golden City is itself alive.

Um... I doubt that. If its alive then why wasn't it corrupted from the inside out? Perhaps the city is still golden, but is now covered in a layer of black taint.

[Steelcan]

The Blight can infect inanimate objects, or at least affect them severely as we've seen in the Blight corruption of areas like the Western Approach and hear about in the Anderfells

[Iakus]

The Blight can infect inanimate objects, or at least affect them severely as we've seen in the Blight corruption of areas like the Western Approach and hear about in the Anderfells

The blight has been known to kill all life in a region, rendering the ground sterile.  But have we heard of it actually corrupting inanimate matter?

[Reznore57]

The blight has been known to kill all life in a region, rendering the ground sterile.  But have we heard of it actually corrupting inanimate matter?

 

Well there are the Eluvians.But perhaps those were made with lyrium.

It's possible the city was made with lyrium , but my guess is the Blight in there simply doesn't work like the Blight in Thedas.

Corypheus and co weren't corrupted the "normal" way , they didn't turn into ghouls.

They are closer to Archdemons .

Anyway there are cities that were attacked by hordes and hordes of darkspawn like the capital of Antiva ,and it didn't turn black and corrupted forever either.

The Primeval Thaig which you can imagine as a dwarven city full of lyrium turned red not black.

 

Anyway my guess is  there is something in the Golden City , I imagine it is the "Sun" or the "Maker"...there is some hints in ancient elven lore and images , the elves might have put the sun in there.

It's possible it is the fade itself which is corrupted in that place.

Again there's some hints in the lore , Chants of Light and the prophecy of Elani whatever , the city is somekind of prison with seven gates , and some of them are already destroyed.

 

Anyway I imagine the city was at one point far less dangerous but our friends the Evanuris did somethind stupid which prompted Solas to create the veil , then the humans from Tevinter picked up the torches of stupidity.

And if the Old Gods are the seals of the Golden City ....well someone better find a solution for the 2 Old Gods left.

[Dai Grepher]

I think Eleni Zinovia was referring to Corypheus' prison.

[Qun00]

Speaking of eluvians, I wonder if Tamlen's dialogue was supposed to mean something.

"It is showing me places. I can see some kind of city... underground? And there is a great blackness.

It saw me! Help, I can't look away!"

First of all, why would touching it send images into your mind? How could he see the Black City if the eluvians are connected to the Crossroads and not the Fade?

Also, he said something saw him. What could it be?

[Hellion Rex]

Speaking if eluvians, I wonder if Tamlen's dialogue was supposed to mean something.

"It is showing me places. Some kind of city... underground? And there is a great darkness.

It saw me! Help, I can't look away!"

First of all, why would touching it send images into your mind? How could he see the Black City if the eluvians are connected to the Crossroads and not the Fade?

Also, he said something saw him. What could it be?

I don't think that he necessarily saw the Black City. Before they had necessarily mapped out what the Crossroads was gonna be, I think Tamlen got a glimpse of the network and a place that that specific mirror could lead. He could have just seen the remains of a now underground elven city. And there might have been either darkspawn or some other creature that saw him on the other side of the mirror.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Why couldn't he look away, though? We don't have that problem at any point in Inquisition.

 

And then, if I remember right, there's some kind of flash of light and then Mahariel is later found unconscious and tainted? That does not make sense alongside some darkspawn just stepping through the mirror. The darkspawn would have killed Mahariel, not left them on the ground. And they would have done it with a sword or magic, which would not lead to Mahariel lying on the ground with no memory of what occurred.

 

There was something more happening there. I think perhaps Merrill's eluvian is special and leads someplace specific, with specific and dangerous inhabitants. Or perhaps the eluvians aren't just portals, but also magic mirrors in the Snow White or Galadriel sense? Like they have an alternative use mode as a kind of scrying pool or something and that was what Tamlen had activated and, as a result, was physically unable to pull away when whatever the mirror was set to look at looked back?