1593 replies to this topic

[Qun00]

I've been told that Mahariel is the name of a guardian angel (non-biblical). Apparently, the writers don't care about these details as much as we do.

One might expect them to base it on LoTR, but no.

[Hellion Rex]

I've been told that Mahariel is the name of a guardian angel (non-biblical). Apparently, the writers don't care about these details as much as we do.

One might expect them to base it on LoTR, but no.

From what I understand, Dumah is known as an angel of silence in Yiddish folklore. I'd bargain that this was their inspiration for Dumat, Dragon of Silence.

[Qun00]

Mm... the name Dumah seems familiar. Anyhow, I wouldn't call my character Bob, but it seems that any source of inspiration is fair game.

[straykat]

As if "new" is somehow always better than the "old" and change is somehow always progressive.

Also, I'm not sure its an outright "rejection" of old elven roots. More like an involuntary forceful separation by an external force that has rendered them ignorant of knowing what they're even rejecting in the first place. And most are still trying to keep little things like Vhenadahls alive (less successfully than the Dalish).

 

It's better for me... I hate how almost all Bioware games revolve around old things now. I believe in being creative. That's not only more fun for me storywise, but also as a game, it offers more roleplaying, when players engage in real problem solving. Instead of acting like archaeologists and reading codexes everywhere. Waiting for big lore reveals or finding out how the world is created. If that's all I have truly have to wait for, I'll eventually lose interest. I want to truly "live" in the world. Not find out how it was made. Same goes for the real world.

 

And I wish to build from the "last chapter" (Shartan and Andraste). Not go back to the first chapter and build from there. I think progress was being made for elves.. it was just cut short. That's the real tragedy. Not that elves lost Arlathan. Good riddance. They sound like monsters, and whatever Solas thinks now, he was right then.

[d1ta]

After knowing what Elvhenan was back then, I don't think my Lavellan blame Solas for creating the Veil.
One thing she regrets though, he left a huge power vacum after that. Or wished that he had some contingency plan of keeping order after knocking down the whole Pantheon thingy

[Reznore57]

It's better for me... I hate how almost all Bioware games revolve around old things now. I believe in being creative. That's not only more fun for me storywise, but also as a game, it offers more roleplaying, when players engage in real problem solving. Instead of acting like archaeologists and reading codexes everywhere. Waiting for big lore reveals or finding out how the world is created. If that's all I have truly have to wait for, I'll eventually lose interest. I want to truly "live" in the world. Not find out how it was made. Same goes for the real world.

 

And I wish to build from the "last chapter" (Shartan and Andraste). Not go back to the first chapter and build from there. I think progress was being made for elves.. it was just cut short. That's the real tragedy. Not that elves lost Arlathan. Good riddance. They sound like monsters, and whatever Solas thinks now, he was right then.

 

I really like the whole "archeology" trip (yeah I'd play Indiana Jones) things I enjoy a bit less is there isn't much dynamic attached to it and the current culture or even social order.

Mainly you get the Big Bad Thing from the past , like Cory and Solas .

 

In DAI I was hoping we'd get some revelation about the Chantry , for example they'd knew the Black City was already black from within and there was no Maker when Cory and co got there.Of course I don't mean your everyday sister had that knowledge ...but highers up did , the Seekers did.

And say the Grey Warden would learn this.

And this would have caused issues.

How can you ever defeat the Blight if people withhold important informations?

Would it be wise to reveal such things in a time when people are desperate?

 

Instead we got the spirit who was Andraste but wasn't , who was the Divine but wasn't and the whole narrative of let's keep seeing the Maker in all those small miracles , shall we?

It's fine I guess , but if you take Chantry tales into account , the Maker isn't that shy , and perfectly willing to whisper sweet nothing at Andraste or yell at the magisters.

 

Anyway back to the elves , one thing I thought would be really cool with the Dalish was to explore their reactions about the ancient elven empire.

We got a bit of that in DA2 with Merrill who's willing to throw everything away for a piece of ancient elven glory and the rest of her clan.

The interesting thing is the dalish have this narrative of "Elven Glory" but in Merrill story , her whole clan is perfectly willing to turn their back on an Eluvian and are way more interested in not taking risk and surviving.

 

There's also Sera , of course.

 

But at the end of Trespasser , for reasons unknown the narrative turns away from the elves aren't actually that interested in bringing back the past.(note Briala also use the Eluvians to benefit current elves , and doesn't care all that much about rebuilding an Elvhenan type of thing too) to a  lot of elves have disappeared and joined the Solas bandwagon.

[straykat]

I really like the whole "archeology" trip (yeah I'd play Indiana Jones) things I enjoy a bit less is there isn't much dynamic attached to it and the current culture or even social order.

Mainly you get the Big Bad Thing from the past , like Cory and Solas .

 

I'll adjust to it somewhat, but it's getting old. I mean, even my Inquisitor is like a Genetivi on steroids (i.e. an Indiana Jones type). Heh. So I play it myself. I get some of the appeal.

 

Revelations are passive on my part though. Exploring the "monomyth" of fantasy worlds is one sided, and self-congratulatory on the campaign creator's part. "Look at my pretty world! Aren't you having so much fun listening to me explain how I made it? Here's another codex."

 

I'll have more fun just playing in it and being part of new situations. Just like the real world. Stories are everywhere. Few people are talking about how the world was created. They're just living in it.

 

I'm torn on DA, because it seems like Bioware understands this sometimes. The DAO City Elf tells the little kids in the alienage his own fake stories to inspire them. And you can tell Velanna to create new stories. And the best things DAI did as far as the past goes is retrieve some lost stories of elves who were trying something new. Like Ameridan. Or that human and elf couple, that sparked the conflict at Red Crossing.

 

So....anyways... I want to pick up those pieces and run with it. I don't want to go back to Arlathan to improve the lives of elves. I doubt it would anyways.

[Reznore57]

I'll adjust to it somewhat, but it's getting old. I mean, even my Inquisitor is like a Genetivi on steroids. Heh. So I play it myself. I get some of the appeal.

 

Revelations are passive on my part though. Exploring the "monomyth" of fantasy worlds is one sided, and egotistical on the campaign creator's part. "Look at my pretty world! Aren't you having so much fun listening to me explain how I made it? Here's another codex."

 

I'll have more fun just playing in it and being part of new situations. 

 

There's a line that Leliana says at the end of DAO that comes to mind... she's a bard, and obviously, she's fascinated with the past too. But in a romance, she says she and the Warden will forge a legend of their own. That's what I'm talking about. The past is interesting, but life is here and now. And if you really wanted to solve problems for elves, you need Progress. Not ultra conservatism. Or outright destruction. We might as well cheer on ISIS too, if that was true.

 

And I'm interested in the past lore that signifies some of that. Like some of those last stories of the Dales, with the human woman and elf lovers. Or Ameridan. Or Shartan and Andraste before that. Things have gotten bad because we forgot all of this. Not Arlathan.

 

I get where you're coming from.

I guess it's different for me because I looove to come up with stupid lore theories so when there's a reveal or new piece of ancient lore I'm all excited.

 

Although I do feel like the world is pretty frozen  , DAI was supposed to be this earth shattering event and even Morrigan claims things have changed so much...but not really.

The Chantry is as solid as it was at the start of DAO, there is still circles , elves are still the lowest class running to Solas , Orlais is fine , Ferelden is fine.

At best you leave the South with more progressive leaders if that's your fancy and there's a green line in the sky.

[straykat]

I get where you're coming from.

I guess it's different for me because I looove to come up with stupid lore theories so when there's a reveal or new piece of ancient lore I'm all excited.

 

Although I do feel like the world is pretty frozen  , DAI was supposed to be this earth shattering event and even Morrigan claims things have changed so much...but not really.

The Chantry is as solid as it was at the start of DAO, there is still circles , elves are still the lowest class running to Solas , Orlais is fine , Ferelden is fine.

At best you leave the South with more progressive leaders if that's your fancy and there's a green line in the sky.

 

I edited actually.. But I guess you got the gist of it. Sorry about that.

 

I also forgot to mention the end choice for Merrill. That kind of illustrates where I'm at. Work on her mirror or help the elves outside her door. 

[Vit246]

Work on the mirror, or help the elves. Why not both? Why not Zoidberg? What if working the magic mirrors helps the elves?

[Hellion Rex]

Work on the mirror, or help the elves. Why not both? Why not Zoidberg? What if working the magic mirrors helps the elves?

Helps them do what, precisely?

[Dean_the_Young]

Helps them do what, precisely?

 

In the words of Sera:

 

Elven Glory!

[Steelcan]

Helps them do what, precisely?

bring about the apocalypse upon us all through their own lack of understanding

 

or idk, a shorter route to the corner market

[straykat]

Work on the mirror, or help the elves. Why not both? Why not Zoidberg? What if working the magic mirrors helps the elves?

 

Well, that's what Briala did, I guess. I'm OK with that. She found a new path, in true City Elf fashion.

 

At first I was kind of sad for Merrill that the Eluvian story partly fell into the hands of a City Elf, but not as much anymore.

 

You can blame that on the fans themselves though. It might've gone differently if we had that DA2 expansion.

[raging_monkey]

Fans really shouldn't have any input tbh

[straykat]

Fans really shouldn't have any input tbh

 

Right on. Give me the DA2 expansion. I won't complain.

 

Pretty sure I'm in the minority though.

[raging_monkey]

Nah I'm with ya I love content good or bad. My statement stands

[straykat]

Nah I'm with ya I love content good or bad. My statement stands

 

It kind of reminds me... I had no idea until recently, but France has a law that ensures directors have control over their films. That producers can't interfere, like they do in the Hollywood system.

 

If only there was something like that in game development.

[raging_monkey]

If targeting fans yes please

[straykat]

If targeting fans yes please

 

It's ultimately why EA canceled the expansion in this case. Fans complain enough and the producers listen. Then artists can't stick to whatever vision they might have if this happens. Capitalism wins in the end (and capitalism = fans). I see the good side, but I hate when it gets in the way of art.

[raging_monkey]

It's ultimately why EA canceled the expansion in this case. Fans complain enough and the producers listen. Then artists can't stick to whatever vision they might have if this happens. Capitalism wins in the end (and capitalism = fans). I see the good side, but I hate when it gets in the way of art.

well I know I'll get banned for this but I've had my full of the bsn; I SUPPORT ARTISTIC INTEGRITY OVER FAN OPINIONS

[straykat]

well I know I'll get banned for this but I've had my full of the bsn; I SUPPORT ARTISTIC INTEGRITY OVER FAN OPINIONS

 

You won't get banned.... but so do I.

 

Unfortunately, it's a helluva lot harder in games than...say... music or novels.

[raging_monkey]

Oh yeah totally agree but derailed enough apologies

[Gervaise]

I like uncovering ancient texts because it throws light on current beliefs but also because I hold to the idea that by understanding the mistakes of the past we can avoid them in the future and hopefully build a better world.    This to me seems to be Briala's reaction to discovering more about the elven history; she realises that it wasn't some perfect paradise but likely as fraught with injustice as the present, so she uses the ancient network to try and make things better for the elves in the present, not for running around trying to recover past glories.      This is what I find so depressing about Solas.    Instead of using the network and his extensive knowledge gained over centuries of dreaming in the Fade to help build a better life for elves in the present world, he wants to rewind to an earlier era out of a mixture of nostalgia for what was lost and guilt over what he did to the elves.   Given his record up to now, it seem inevitable that it will not work out as he planned and he will simply make everything much worse for everyone.  

 

If we can truly find out what caused the Blights, it will not only be interesting in itself but hopefully help stop them in the future.    If we find out the connection between origins of the humans and the origins of the kossith/qunari (they both first turned up in Par Vollen) then that could help establish better relations in the future.    If we find out just how much the Neromenians/Tevinter owe to the ancient elves and exactly who the old gods were, this might also us to overcome the mistakes of the past.     I want to know exactly which Evanuris were responsible for Mythal's murder and why because may be that will help in deflecting Solas from his purpose.  

 

Where I am less happy is where you have world changing magic or world changing magical artefacts introduced into the story.    If my hero is going to save the world, I prefer not to have someone out there with some magical bauble that can scupper their efforts.    Back in the novel the Calling there was the Architect planning on unleashing some sort of magic that could change people into darkspawn worldwide on mass; in the first comic series the Magister had some sort of device that was going to allow him to control the mind of every person in the world (shades of X-men there) and now we know that it is possible to raise and lower the Veil with a single device.    In each case, the only way to stop these world changing events was destroying the artefact that was going to make them happen.   Then there is time travel, which Dorian assures us was always theoretically possible and the only thing stopping it was not having the necessary power.   These sorts of magic seem too big and outlandish to me compared with the world we were presented with in DAO.    When the Magisters allegedly entered the Golden City and became corrupted, this may have had serious consequences for the whole world but the transformation didn't happen in the blink of an eye.   When a Blight starts and the darkspawn pour out on to the surface, they have to take over piece by piece in the conventional way and you equally can stop them by the same means.   That is the sort of thing I am talking about. 

[Dai Grepher]

If the Veil drops over most of Thedas, and the Fade's energy affects the real world as it did over the Valley of Sacred Ashes (or to a greater extent), then the eluvians might be a way to keep the real world together. In the Crossroads each active eluvian seemed to hold an island together, and make it stable. Maybe they will have a similar affect in a Veilless world. If so, then anyone with an eluvian will benefit from it.

I can also see Hawke's advice to Merrill to keep the mirror playing some part in the future.