1605 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

You know, I never really understood why the Dales focused on humans instead of elves. This never made any sense to me. The Dales is an occupied nation that’s said to be predominantly elven (TME), with humans leaving the region en mass (Asunder), so it never made any sense that we would continually have predominantly human storylines in the elven homeland and virtually no elven content. The consequence of this choice is that we get no insight into Briala, her elven rebellion, the perspectives of the Andrastian elves who live in the Dales, or even delving into the myriad of views among the Dalish clans who were supposed to be gathering and meeting in the Dales around this time.

 

That could easily be remedied. The arlathvenn of the clans could have taken hold in Emprise du Lion (so it would effectively be a story about the Dalish, and not about Andrastian humans). It would have been a great opportunity to get some insight into the multitude of clans who exist in Thedas. Perhaps the militant Dalish who are said to live on the border of the Imperium, or even the Dalish who have settled into a semi-permanent state on the outskirts of the city of Llomerryn in Rivain (where Gaider said the people encouraged the purchase of elven goods). It would be a nice insight into Dalish who live peacefully with humans who follow the Natural Order, rather than the Andrastian faith.

 

Ariane could show up again. Maybe we could find out what "gift" Morrigan left behind. Also, given the multitude of rather negative comments that are levied our way as a Dalish protagonist, it would be a rare opportunity to actually get ome pro-Dalish comments and insight, which is lacking throughout the entirety of the game.

 

I’d replace Fairbanks and his Orlesian human plot with Merrill and the elven refugees she was sheltering and leading. Having Merrill in the storyline, perhaps having brought the disenfranchised elves away from the Tevinter Hellmouth and to the Emerald Graves, could have easily allowed us to get some insight into the perspective of Andrastian elves coming to the Dales (among the people she is caring for) and given us a pro-Dalish perspective with Merrill herself (since it was entirely absent in the actual game).

 

Her role in Kirkwall, including potentially playing a role in putting down the Knight-Commander, could easily earn the attention of Briala. Briala and her people would provide the perspective of elves who have lived in the Dales, and the different groups of elves who have come together to try and empower their people during this civil war. I bring this up because I think the Orlesian Eluvian network plotline really should have been tackled properly, rather than being left to a brief mention in an optional wartable mission. Briala's role deserves to be expanded; she's a WoC who is trying to improve the situation for elves across Orlais, and Merrill is someone we know who extensively researched the Eluvians that Briala now has access to.

 

Given Felassan’s attempts to repeatedly generalize and vilify the Dalish to Briala, Merrill the antithesis of all his claims (making it more plausible for Briala to work with the Dalish). She’s exactly the kind of person who Briala was initially hoping to meet among the Dalish. And her knowledge of the Eluvians is something that could easily appeal to Briala. She could become an advisor and benefactor to Briala and the resistance. I see it as an opportunity to explore an Andrastian and Dalish elf working together for the betterment of their people in the narrative (without the racism or condescension that we have to put up in Inquisition, which is simply annoying).

 

Just like that, the Dales actually focuses on elves instead of Andrastian humans, who already dominate the stories that take place in Ferelden and Orlais. Just some thoughts.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I am curious why the Elves acting in concord with Andraste and her army instead of fighting on their own. I know that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but what reason did the Elves have to trust a horde of barbarians?

Probably started as an opportunity. I recall something about the elven slaves in the Tevinter army turning on them mid-battle when Andraste's people showed up. I think it was in WoT v2 when talking about the Canticle of Shartan. And then, when that worked out, they stuck together b/c "Hey, you guys fight pretty good. You hate the Vints? So do we!" Cue Shartan getting a sword and the start of joint operations.

 

And whenever I think of this topic I am reminded of something else. In Redcliff's chantry, I'm still curious as to the reason Shartan's stained glass window has him holding a little gold key and one of Andraste's windows has a keyhole in her heart... And by "curious", I mean, I really want to know if there's a story there.

 

Cus that strongly hints that there was some kind of romance there, and yet we (oddly in my opinion) don't have a codex entry that really says the idea of Shartan/Andraste is a thing in-universe. Like, we have the Randy Dowager with the Divine and her "perfumed chamber" and "worshipping templars", and raunchy literature and portraits spread about Divine Rosalind (or Rosamund or w/e her name was. The one who was noted as being really young and beautiful when she ascended to the Sunburst Throne.) in Orlais during her reign, but Andraste/Shartan never occurs to the population of Thedas?

[Qun00]

In Redcliff's chantry, I'm still curious as to the reason Shartan's stained glass window has him holding a little gold key and one of Andraste's windows has a keyhole in her heart... And by "curious", I mean, I really want to know if there's a story there.

You're already shipping it, aren't you?

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I’d replace Fairbanks and his Orlesian human plot with Merrill and the elven refugees she was sheltering and leading. Having Merrill in the storyline, perhaps having brought the disenfranchised elves away from the Tevinter Hellmouth and to the Emerald Graves, could have easily allowed us to get some insight into the perspective of Andrastian elves coming to the Dales (among the people she is caring for) and given us a pro-Dalish perspective with Merrill herself (since it was entirely absent in the actual game).

 

Her role in Kirkwall, including potentially playing a role in putting down the Knight-Commander, could easily earn the attention of Briala. Briala and her people would provide the perspective of elves who have lived in the Dales, and the different groups of elves who have come together to try and empower their people during this civil war. I bring this up because I think the Orlesian Eluvian network plotline really should have been tackled properly, rather than being left to a brief mention in an optional wartable mission. Briala's role deserves to be expanded; she's a WoC who is trying to improve the situation for elves across Orlais, and Merrill is someone we know who extensively researched the Eluvians that Briala now has access to.

 

Given Felassan’s attempts to repeatedly generalize and vilify the Dalish to Briala, Merrill the antithesis of all his claims (making it more plausible for Briala to work with the Dalish). She’s exactly the kind of person who Briala was initially hoping to meet among the Dalish. And her knowledge of the Eluvians is something that could easily appeal to Briala. She could become an advisor and benefactor to Briala and the resistance. I see it as an opportunity to explore an Andrastian and Dalish elf working together for the betterment of their people in the narrative (without the racism or condescension that we have to put up in Inquisition, which is simply annoying).

 

Just like that, the Dales actually focuses on elves instead of Andrastian humans, who already dominate the stories that take place in Ferelden and Orlais. Just some thoughts.

 

Much as I love Merrill, I don't think it would make sense if she brought her refugees south with the mage/templar conflict going there, much less to the Graves. The area is known to be under the control of Orlais and not elf friendly anymore.

 

That said, a group of local elves from the chateaus and such banding together on their own and quests bringing them and Fairbanks' group together would have been cool to me. Or maybe some elves in the Plains who are there b/c of the alienage in halamshiral being burned down.

 

I think that more elf-centric stuff in the Dales would have been most appropriate if we'd been able to visit Halamshiral properly. I know the alienage got burned, but there's likely several elves still in town.

 

 

You're already shipping it, aren't you?

[Steelcan]

You know, I never really understood why the Dales focused on humans instead of elves. This never made any sense to me. The Dales is an occupied nation that’s said to be predominantly elven (TME), with humans leaving the region en mass (Asunder), so it never made any sense that we would continually have predominantly human storylines in the elven homeland and virtually no elven content. The consequence of this choice is that we get no insight into Briala, her elven rebellion, the perspectives of the Andrastian elves who live in the Dales, or even delving into the myriad of views among the Dalish clans who were supposed to be gathering and meeting in the Dales around this time.
 
That could easily be remedied. The arlathvenn of the clans could have taken hold in Emprise du Lion (so it would effectively be a story about the Dalish, and not about Andrastian humans). It would have been a great opportunity to get some insight into the multitude of clans who exist in Thedas. Perhaps the militant Dalish who are said to live on the border of the Imperium, or even the Dalish who have settled into a semi-permanent state on the outskirts of the city of Llomerryn in Rivain (where Gaider said the people encouraged the purchase of elven goods). It would be a nice insight into Dalish who live peacefully with humans who follow the Natural Order, rather than the Andrastian faith.
 
Ariane could show up again. Maybe we could find out what "gift" Morrigan left behind. Also, given the multitude of rather negative comments that are levied our way as a Dalish protagonist, it would be a rare opportunity to actually get ome pro-Dalish comments and insight, which is lacking throughout the entirety of the game.
 
I’d replace Fairbanks and his Orlesian human plot with Merrill and the elven refugees she was sheltering and leading. Having Merrill in the storyline, perhaps having brought the disenfranchised elves away from the Tevinter Hellmouth and to the Emerald Graves, could have easily allowed us to get some insight into the perspective of Andrastian elves coming to the Dales (among the people she is caring for) and given us a pro-Dalish perspective with Merrill herself (since it was entirely absent in the actual game).
 
Her role in Kirkwall, including potentially playing a role in putting down the Knight-Commander, could easily earn the attention of Briala. Briala and her people would provide the perspective of elves who have lived in the Dales, and the different groups of elves who have come together to try and empower their people during this civil war. I bring this up because I think the Orlesian Eluvian network plotline really should have been tackled properly, rather than being left to a brief mention in an optional wartable mission. Briala's role deserves to be expanded; she's a WoC who is trying to improve the situation for elves across Orlais, and Merrill is someone we know who extensively researched the Eluvians that Briala now has access to.
 
Given Felassan’s attempts to repeatedly generalize and vilify the Dalish to Briala, Merrill the antithesis of all his claims (making it more plausible for Briala to work with the Dalish). She’s exactly the kind of person who Briala was initially hoping to meet among the Dalish. And her knowledge of the Eluvians is something that could easily appeal to Briala. She could become an advisor and benefactor to Briala and the resistance. I see it as an opportunity to explore an Andrastian and Dalish elf working together for the betterment of their people in the narrative (without the racism or condescension that we have to put up in Inquisition, which is simply annoying).
 
Just like that, the Dales actually focuses on elves instead of Andrastian humans, who already dominate the stories that take place in Ferelden and Orlais. Just some thoughts.

because the Elves are not the dominant power in the Dales anymore, its quite simple

[LobselVith8]

Much as I love Merrill, I don't think it would make sense if she brought her refugees south with the mage/templar conflict going there, much less to the Graves. The area is known to be under the control of Orlais and not elf friendly anymore.

 

I certainly see what you mean about the civil war in Orlais. Part of the reason I brought her up is because her Eluvian plot is pretty much dropped, and I would have liked to see it go somewhere.

 

That said, a group of local elves from the chateaus and such banding together on their own and quests bringing them and Fairbanks' group together would have been cool to me. Or maybe some elves in the Plains who are there b/c of the alienage in halamshiral being burned down.

 

I don't think the inclusion of Fairbanks and his group is necessary; we're not lacking for Andrastian human content when we already have the entire areas of Orlais and Ferelden.

 

I think that more elf-centric stuff in the Dales would have been most appropriate if we'd been able to visit Halamshiral properly. I know the alienage got burned, but there's likely several elves still in town.

 

I don't think that would be necessary. With Asunder noting the departure of humans in large groups from the Dales and TME addressing a predominantly elven population for the Dales, it would make sense for the protagonist to encounter elves, whether or not it's in or out of the ruins of burnt Halamshiral (with the deaths of thousands of elves meriting more focus in the game).

 

Regardless, the whole idea would be to provide viewpoints for the different elves in the area, who sadly aren't actually given much in the actual game. We certainly get a focus on elven artifacts and history at certain points, but their views, opinions, and thoughts are pretty much marginalized, while we get to see focus on a myriad of Andrastian human viewpoints throughout the entire story.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I don't think the inclusion of Fairbanks and his group is necessary; we're not lacking for Andrastian human content when we already have the entire areas of Orlais and Ferelden.

Necessary? Maybe not. But the presence of the human refugees with him does drive home that the land is predominantly human now, even though it had an elven past. And bringing the two groups together to thrive could have worked thematically for the area, as it has had two populations in its past, one elven and one mostly human, and has signs of both present. 

 

Also, I like Fairbanks, so I'd just still like him included. lol 

 

I certainly see what you mean about the civil war in Orlais. Part of the reason I brought her up is because her Eluvian plot is pretty much dropped, and I would have liked to see it go somewhere.

Totally get and agree with that. 

[LobselVith8]

Necessary? Maybe not. But the presence of the human refugees with him does drive home that the land is predominantly human now, even though it had an elven past. And bringing the two groups together to thrive could have worked thematically for the area, as it has had two populations in its past, one elven and one mostly human, and has signs of both present. 

 

Except, according to TME, the Dales is predominantly elven. And with Asunder addressing the humans who are leaving in large groups from the Dales, the exclusive human content just seems excessive when you factor that this is already the case with Ferelden and Orlais.

 

Also, I like Fairbanks, so I'd just still like him included. lol 

 

Why not incorporate Fairbanks into the Ferelden or Orlesian plot, then?

[Hellion Rex]

I certainly see what you mean about the civil war in Orlais. Part of the reason I brought her up is because her Eluvian plot is pretty much dropped, and I would have liked to see it go somewhere.


I don't think the inclusion of Fairbanks and his group is necessary; we're not lacking for Andrastian human content when we already have the entire areas of Orlais and Ferelden.


I don't think that would be necessary. With Asunder noting the departure of humans in large groups from the Dales and TME addressing a predominantly elven population for the Dales, it would make sense for the protagonist to encounter elves, whether or not it's in or out of the ruins of burnt Halamshiral (with the deaths of thousands of elves meriting more focus in the game).

Regardless, the whole idea would be to provide viewpoints for the different elves in the area, who sadly aren't actually given much in the actual game. We certainly get a focus on elven artifacts and history at certain points, but their views, opinions, and thoughts are pretty much marginalized, while we get to see focus on a myriad of Andrastian human viewpoints throughout the entire story.

In regards to Merrill, I can see why she wasn't included in this installment. With Solas having control of the network now, I definitely could see her coming up on his radar due to her efforts on that mirror.

[Gervaise]

There are two ways of looking at the relationship between Andraste and Shartan.   One is that he was a highly respected ally, whose desire for a homeland was supported by Andraste, just as we are told, but that the Chantry played down the degree of friendship between them because of their desire to demonise the elves and so Shartan was an embarrassment.   Seeing as they also airbrushed Ameridan from history for similar reasons this does seem the most likely interpretation of their actions.  It is noticeable that in the section of the Chant about Andraste's betrayal, they conceal how Shartan tried to save her by calling him the Liberator.

 

The other, which I personally do not favour, is that the relationship between them was far more salacious and that is why the Chantry have suppressed his story all this time.   The thing is it does reflect very badly on Andraste if she was meant to be Bride of the Maker and wife to Maferath if she was also conducting an affair with Shartan.  Beyond the blasphemous play in Masked Empire, where the writer really didn't seem to get why the people should have been more upset about what was being suggested about Andraste, particularly given the simultaneous declaration by the scholars at the university about the offence to the Maker in having relations with an elf, the fact is there has never been any intimation of anything of the sort previously.  

 

Sister Petrine's version of events is that Shartan was a commander of part of the slave army of the Imperium who encouraged his elven forces to change sides mid battle, which swung things in Andraste's favour.    This makes sense because the Magisters involved would have been taken completely by surprise if their own forces suddenly turned against them and thus would not have been able to defend themselves.    The Chant version has the elven slaves running away from their oppressors and meeting up with the barbarians on route.    Then they march to the Valarian Fields together, Andraste and her honour guard get cut off from the rest of their forces by a wall of ice and seem likely to be overwhelmed, until Shartan's elves destroy it with fire arrows.    Either way, without the presence of Shartan and his elves, the battle would have been lost.  

 

I've no idea what that stained glass window is meant to indicate.  I've already pointed out before how the designers clearly do not understand how religious iconography works, since the central panel at the head of the aisle ought to contain the image of the most important person to the faith, either Andraste herself or a follower to whom the chapel is dedicated.    Why the Chantry of Redcliffe would have been dedicated to the memory of Shartan is a mystery to me and in any case the image should have long since been removed considering even mentioning Shartan was considered heresy and the only surviving image of him, back in Orlais, only did so because the artist docked his ears to make him look more human.   Also the image in Redcliffe has him looking more like a mage or simply some mystical disciple and all the accounts of Shartan, plus his shade in the Shrine of Ashes, depict him as a warrior.  

[Gervaise]

There is an interesting passage in the Dragon Age Core Rule Book that was issued in 2015 on-line and would therefore be the most up to date lore I would have assumed.   It is about the Dales and the lack of action on the part of the elves when the darkspawn attacked Montsimmard.   It says how knowledge of the events that led up to the Exalted March is lost to most living elves and that the only accounts are those of the victorious.   After suggesting that some people see the Orlesian accounts as lies written by oppressors bent on conquest, it adds the following passage:

 

"Perhaps no elves can testify on the Dale army's indifference to the Montsimmard massacre by the darkspawn because the story is a falsehood meant to turn a frightened populace against its strange neighbours.   That the truth cannot be known is not merely sad but suspicious."   (My italics).  

 

I'm not sure who is meant to be the author of that assertion in terms of the world itself but we know the history given in World of Thedas is said to be mostly the view of Chantry and University scholars, who make no suggestion that the lack of action on the part of the elves was anything but the truth, so this new slant on the business is interesting if nothing else.    Essentially the reason our Dalish PC knows nothing about this bit of history is not out of writer induced ignorance but because it never happened as it is a complete fabrication on the part of Orlais.    Admittedly Ameridan suggests that some of his countrymen would prefer to leave Orlais to the darkspawn but that doesn't necessarily mean that they did nothing to aid in the Blight.    As I've already pointed out, they may have been dealing with darkspawn within their own borders.    I've also often wondered when the Grey Warden treaties with the Dalish were drawn up.   It seems highly unlikely that this was after they embarked on their nomadic existence, yet if the Dalish were still willing to honour an agreement made with their ancestors while still occupying the Dales, it is even more peculiar that those ancestors did not do so at the time.     It is also odd that the writers focussed on Red Crossing, whilst totally ignoring the far more damning incident during the 2nd Blight that the Chantry used to inflame opinion against the Dales     In the absence of anything to the contrary, I think I shall regard this latest statement as correct; the history in the timeline about Montsimmard was a fabrication by their enemies to demonise the elves.

[Qun00]

An interesting idea and certainly not impossible, but Marethari's dialogue in DAO seemed to indicate otherwise.

Answering one of the questions related to darkspawn, she will mention that a new Blight may be on the horizon and in that case the clan must get as far away from it as possible.

Then the Warden may ask "shouldn't we join the battle?" to which she responds "We already have our own battles. Let the humans fight theirs".

[Iakus]

Probably started as an opportunity. I recall something about the elven slaves in the Tevinter army turning on them mid-battle when Andraste's people showed up. I think it was in WoT v2 when talking about the Canticle of Shartan. And then, when that worked out, they stuck together b/c "Hey, you guys fight pretty good. You hate the Vints? So do we!" Cue Shartan getting a sword and the start of joint operations.

 

And whenever I think of this topic I am reminded of something else. In Redcliff's chantry, I'm still curious as to the reason Shartan's stained glass window has him holding a little gold key and one of Andraste's windows has a keyhole in her heart... And by "curious", I mean, I really want to know if there's a story there.

 

Cus that strongly hints that there was some kind of romance there, and yet we (oddly in my opinion) don't have a codex entry that really says the idea of Shartan/Andraste is a thing in-universe. Like, we have the Randy Dowager with the Divine and her "perfumed chamber" and "worshipping templars", and raunchy literature and portraits spread about Divine Rosalind (or Rosamund or w/e her name was. The one who was noted as being really young and beautiful when she ascended to the Sunburst Throne.) in Orlais during her reign, but Andraste/Shartan never occurs to the population of Thedas?

According to the Canticle of Shartan, Shartan led his own slave uprising at Vol Dorma.   He and his followers fled into the wilderness, where they ambushed and killed the soldiers that were following them.  Thus properly armed and equipped, Shartan discovered Andraste's army and met with her.

 

Later in the Battle of Valarian Fields, Shartan saved Andraste's life.  And afterwards she named him her Champion and gave him Glandivalis, her mother's sword.

 

I see the stained glass of Shartan with a key, but the picture above it of Andraste appears to be the pommel of a sword, not a keyhole.

[LobselVith8]

An interesting idea and certainly not impossible, but Marethari's dialogue in DAO seemed to indicate otherwise.

Answering one of the questions related to darkspawn, she will mention that a new Blight may be on the horizon and in that case the clan must get as far away from it as possible.

Then the Warden may ask "shouldn't we join the battle?" to which she responds "We already have our own battles. Let the humans fight theirs".

 

Not really. Considering how the religion of the Dalish is outlawed (which is the reason why the ancestors of Alienage elves were forced to convert) and how humans attack them when they simply stay too long in one area (and we're not even factoring the issue with the templars - who view all Dalish mages as apostates), I don't see why you it would have been safe for the Dalish to approach the assembled human armies. The entire reason the Dalish are nomadic is because humans are a constant threat to them.

[Qun00]

Well, Marethari didn't argue that. And it never became a problem when the HoF's gathered army fought in Denerim.

[LobselVith8]

Well, Marethari didn't argue that. And it never became a problem when the HoF's gathered army fought in Denerim.

 

I don't see why Marethari would have even had to argue that point, because every Dalish in the clan would already know the dangers that they face each day of their lives. And given that the Warden petitioned the Dalish for aid (at a time when the humans were clearly desperate for assistance), that's not the same thing.

[Qun00]

Were they not desperate for aid in the second Blight?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I hope that when we go to Tevinter that will be the opportunity to discover more about what really happened with Andraste.   Dorian admits that he isn't really interested in religion so has probably never bothered himself unduly with looking up the history of their Chantry in the Archives, which gives them the excuse to have the big reveal when you get to Tevinter.   There have been enough hints and explicit pieces of information up to now:

 

Back in DAO we have that book about Andraste really being a mage and Dorian saying how the Tevinter think of her as "one of us", which I think means not just mortal but definitely a mage.   This would explain all her voices and visions because she was likely not just a mage but a Dreamer mage.   Plus the reason they burnt her - so a spirit can't possess her corpse (or the one already there is forced to leave).   They didn't want to risk the Maker (faith spirit) keeping her alive or resurrecting her.   (I'm sure Wynne wasn't the first person to be saved in that way)

 

We have our knowledge of both Rivaini wise women and the traditions of the Avaar, who have the same origins as the Alamarri, with regard to people being positively possessed by benign spirits in order to impart knowledge.

 

We have the alternate history of the Battle of Valarian Fields given by Sister Petrine that seems to hint that not everything in the Chant is true to history.    Then there are the references in game and in World of Thedas 2 to the fact that Andraste never got further north than modern day Nevarra, was captured from a stronghold there and that Maferath did this because he was worried about continuing their crusade into the heart of the Imperium, so he struck the deal with Hessarian so that he could keep what they had gained in the south (where Tevinter influence had been on the wane anyway) and avoid a costly and likely suicidal campaign in the north.

 

The other thing we will also likely discover is what really happened in Arlathan Forest.    It is clear from what Abelas said that the real Arlathan was long gone by then.   That makes sense considering it was likely built on magic from the Fade and so simply raising the Veil brought it crashing down, without the civil war that followed.   So what was left in Arlathan Forest was likely a remnant of the civilisation, much like the Temple of Mythal, dedicated to one or more of the Creators.    Which when you think about it makes the Imperium at the height of its power seem pretty pathetic if it was unable to subdue this remnant of the elven empire by normal means, the elves withstanding their army for 6 long years, during which much of the Imperium's resources were drained, until finally the Magisters decided the only way to resolve it was to bury the problem, literally.    And as we know from the story of Barindur, what occurred there may not have been due to their actions at all.   It could have been a natural disaster or possibly all that magical activity upset a sleeping Titan, thus resulting in a rather large earthquake

 

So if the elves have had a lot of their lore rubbed in their faces, I think it is likely a similar thing is going to happen in the future with human history, certainly that of Tevinter but hopefully that of the southern Chantry too.     Let us not forget the fact that we discovered in the Descent that the Shaperate aren't as fastidious about recording and preserving their history as we had previously been led to believe and so there is a whole chunk of dwarven history to be brought to light.   Plus, there is the big mystery about the origins of the kossith/qunari.   

 

Why would the Imperium have any superior knowledge about Andraste compared to the rest of Thedas, including her own people?

 

Also once again, Andraste DID reach further than Nevarra. The Valarian Fields IS right outside Minrathous. She was just returning to her fortress in Nevarra when she was ambushed and captured. World of Thedas 1 specifically mentions that. And World of Thedas 2 describes the difficulties Andraste's campaign faced when she pushed in Tevinter provinces because she had fewer and fewer people people wanting liberation. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You know, I never really understood why the Dales focused on humans instead of elves. This never made any sense to me. The Dales is an occupied nation that’s said to be predominantly elven (TME), with humans leaving the region en mass (Asunder), so it never made any sense that we would continually have predominantly human storylines in the elven homeland and virtually no elven content. The consequence of this choice is that we get no insight into Briala, her elven rebellion, the perspectives of the Andrastian elves who live in the Dales, or even delving into the myriad of views among the Dalish clans who were supposed to be gathering and meeting in the Dales around this time.

 

That could easily be remedied. The arlathvenn of the clans could have taken hold in Emprise du Lion (so it would effectively be a story about the Dalish, and not about Andrastian humans). It would have been a great opportunity to get some insight into the multitude of clans who exist in Thedas. Perhaps the militant Dalish who are said to live on the border of the Imperium, or even the Dalish who have settled into a semi-permanent state on the outskirts of the city of Llomerryn in Rivain (where Gaider said the people encouraged the purchase of elven goods). It would be a nice insight into Dalish who live peacefully with humans who follow the Natural Order, rather than the Andrastian faith.

 

Ariane could show up again. Maybe we could find out what "gift" Morrigan left behind. Also, given the multitude of rather negative comments that are levied our way as a Dalish protagonist, it would be a rare opportunity to actually get ome pro-Dalish comments and insight, which is lacking throughout the entirety of the game.

 

I’d replace Fairbanks and his Orlesian human plot with Merrill and the elven refugees she was sheltering and leading. Having Merrill in the storyline, perhaps having brought the disenfranchised elves away from the Tevinter Hellmouth and to the Emerald Graves, could have easily allowed us to get some insight into the perspective of Andrastian elves coming to the Dales (among the people she is caring for) and given us a pro-Dalish perspective with Merrill herself (since it was entirely absent in the actual game).

 

Her role in Kirkwall, including potentially playing a role in putting down the Knight-Commander, could easily earn the attention of Briala. Briala and her people would provide the perspective of elves who have lived in the Dales, and the different groups of elves who have come together to try and empower their people during this civil war. I bring this up because I think the Orlesian Eluvian network plotline really should have been tackled properly, rather than being left to a brief mention in an optional wartable mission. Briala's role deserves to be expanded; she's a WoC who is trying to improve the situation for elves across Orlais, and Merrill is someone we know who extensively researched the Eluvians that Briala now has access to.

 

Given Felassan’s attempts to repeatedly generalize and vilify the Dalish to Briala, Merrill the antithesis of all his claims (making it more plausible for Briala to work with the Dalish). She’s exactly the kind of person who Briala was initially hoping to meet among the Dalish. And her knowledge of the Eluvians is something that could easily appeal to Briala. She could become an advisor and benefactor to Briala and the resistance. I see it as an opportunity to explore an Andrastian and Dalish elf working together for the betterment of their people in the narrative (without the racism or condescension that we have to put up in Inquisition, which is simply annoying).

 

Just like that, the Dales actually focuses on elves instead of Andrastian humans, who already dominate the stories that take place in Ferelden and Orlais. Just some thoughts.

 

The Dales is not an occupied nation anymore. It is a fully assimilated part of Orlais and has been for longer than it was independent. It's elven population is Orlesian now. Halamshiral was burned to the ground in the Glory Age and rebuilt centuries later.

 

Also why would elven refugees from around Thedas flee into a warzone? 

[LobselVith8]

Were they not desperate for aid in the second Blight?

 

Are you arguing that Orlais petitioned the Dales for aid? Unless you are, it's not comparable to the example I cited - where the Warden is petitioning the Dalish for aid.

 

The Dales is not an occupied nation anymore. It is a fully assimilated part of Orlais and has been for longer than it was independent. It's elven population is Orlesian now. Halamshiral was burned to the ground in the Glory Age and rebuilt centuries later.

 

That's arguable; I'm pretty sure that Maric and Loghain saw Ferelden as an occupied nation, despite Orlais ruling it for over a century. I'm sure some could have made similar arguments to yours - that Ferelden was simply part of Orlais, and not actually occupied.

 

Furthermore, your statement has almost nothing to do with what I was addressing. I was providing a speculative account on how the Dales could have focused on elven content, given the lack of elven content in the area - and throughout the entire game as a whole.

 

Also why would elven refugees from around Thedas flee into a warzone? 

 

Elves already live in the Dales. Unless you're addressing my point about finally tackling the Eluvian plot with Merrill through Briala and her Orlesian Eluvian network - then I was speculating it from a standpoint of it taking place before the Orlesian civil war, not afterward. Especially given the possible presence of Red Templars rising up in Kirkwall (although the canon on Kirkwall around this time is muddled due to the conflicting accounts).

[Iakus]

Are you arguing that Orlais petitioned the Dales for aid? Unless you are, it's not comparable to the example I cited - where the Warden is petitioning the Dalish for aid.

 

Why wouldn't they?  Why wouldn't Orlais petition anyone who could pick up a sword for aid?  Especially when Weisshaupt itself was under siege?

[LobselVith8]

Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't Orlais petition anyone who could pick up a sword for aid? Especially when Weisshaupt itself was under siege?

So you can point to a codex entry or a developer statement that says as much, then.

[Gervaise]

The reason that Tevinter might have better knowledge that the southern Chantry is that their history may not have been tampered with as much.   It states in World of Thedas 2 that the Emperor Drakon unified the various cults of Andraste in the south into one religion by means of conquest.    Anyone who wouldn't conform to his idea of what the Chantry should be was wiped out.    "Each clan had its own variety of the cult of Andraste, its own rituals, traditions and versions of Andraste's words.   Young Drakon unified them by the sword."    Then after Drakon we know that Divine's have cut bits out from the Chant that were no longer deemed politically expedient.   It was the southern Divine who decided that the Canticle of Silence was political propaganda by Hessarian but if anything that may be closer to the truth than anything else, considering that Corypheus has confirmed he did go to the Golden City, his name means the Conductor and the diary of his servant confirmed that they did sacrifice a huge number of slaves to get there.

 

As for the location of the Valarian Fields, that is just a name on a map.   Who is to say that Hessarian didn't shift the location further north to where Andraste was burnt rather than where she achieved her greatest victory.    Why on earth would she return hundreds of miles down south after the battle?   As the Chant suggests, if the battle had been fought there against the might of Tevinter, the way to Minrathous was wide open.   At the very least she should have dug in for a siege.   Instead we are to believe that she upped sticks with her army and travelled all the way back to her stronghold in Nevarra.   That would have been giving the initiative back to Tevinter.   Given we are told that Maferath was anxious about her being too eager to maintain her crusade, it doesn't fit with what is claimed about her.   The Chant isn't consistent with the story about her being captured in her stronghold either.   It says that she was close enough to Minrathous to look upon the Juggernaut golems that guarded its gates and saw they might have a problem against such defences, then went apart to seek the Maker's wisdom about what to do next and that Maferath suggested going into the hills to commune by a silver pool where it was said the Voice of Heaven could be heard most clearly.    Nothing is said about heading back down south to her stronghold and travelling that distance isn't something you would do merely to talk with the Maker, particularly considering she claimed to be in constant communication with him.      So the Chant version is the one that Drakon and the first Justinia favoured but would seem to bear little relation to the truth and any clans that had a version that was closer to actual events were forced to comply. 

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Except, according to TME, the Dales is predominantly elven. And with Asunder addressing the humans who are leaving in large groups from the Dales, the exclusive human content just seems excessive when you factor that this is already the case with Ferelden and Orlais.

 

 

Why not incorporate Fairbanks into the Ferelden or Orlesian plot, then?

The Emerald Graves and Exalted Plains weren't actually mentioned in the book, that I remember?  I also don't recall anyone in the book saying the Dales are predominantly elven, just that the largest elf population in Orlais is there, in Halamshiral. That's not the same thing. I do remember references to the Dales as country homes/hunting grounds for Orlesian nobles, which is basically what the Graves are shown to have been in-game. Human and elven refugees from those villas make sense in the circumstances. And I think there *are* elves in Fairbanks' group/camp, aren't there? So its not human exclusive.

 

And Fairbanks is part of the Orlesian plot. The Graves are in Orlais and their troubles are b/c of the civil war and the templars moving in to take advantage of the chaos. 

 

 

I see the stained glass of Shartan with a key, but the picture above it of Andraste appears to be the pommel of a sword, not a keyhole.

 

... Well. I feel silly now. lol Nevermind me.

[Gervaise]

On the Grey Warden debate, Drakon may have rushed to the aid of the Anderfels but it also did fit in nicely with his plan of spreading the Chant and was a good way of out manoeuvring Tevinter as well, since they were the ones who abandoned the Anderfels to the darkspawn.     Drakon was hardly likely to petition the Dalish to send their armies north when he knew from Ameridan there was a major threat to the south from the Avaars and their dragon god.   Until he heard back from Ameridan that the problem had been resolved, the Dalish were effectively guarding his back.    The whole point of sending Ameridan to deal with it was because he couldn't afford to be fighting on two fronts.     The Dalish were also likely aware of why Ameridan went south, so they would have been wary of over committing themselves as well.  

 

Despite what is meant to be the case, the Grey Wardens do seem to have a great deal of difficulty getting anyone to take to the field on their behalf unless they are directly threatened by the Blight.     Garahel had to sleep with the queen of the Anderfels to get her continued support outside of the Anderfels in spite of the fact that he has just saved her city.    Tevinter never gave any forces to assist against the 4th Blight and Orlais only sent a small token force headed up by Chevaliers who wanted to get involved.     When the Warden asked the Dalish for assistance with the 5th Blight, once the small matter of the werewolves had been dealt with, they did help, not just Zathrian's clan but any others who they were able to contact.   Marethari had her own reasons why they couldn't offer help that had to do with a promise given to a certain Witch of the Wilds.   Naturally she didn't tell Mahariel that, nor did she tell anyone else in her clan.    The statement about "We have our own battles. Let the humans fight theirs", was just a smokescreen.