1593 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Qun00]

Do you guys remember that priestess that offers her blessing at Ostagar?

I find it kinda funny that she gets offended and calls your Dalish Warden a heathen for refusing it, but doesn't really mind it when the character is human or a dwarf.

Her response changes to something along the lines of "I don't think that is wise, but it is your choice".

[raging_monkey]

Do you guys remember that priestess that offers her blessing at Ostagar?

I find it kinda funny that she gets offended and calls your Dalish Warden a heathen for refusing it, but doesn't really mind it when the character is human or a dwarf.

Her response changes to something along the lines of "I don't think that is wise, but it is your choice".

well it's technically accurate and dwarves are exempt due to "never heard the chant and had the option to listen"

[Steelcan]

Do you guys remember that priestess that offers her blessing at Ostagar?

I find it kinda funny that she gets offended and calls your Dalish Warden a heathen for refusing it, but doesn't really mind it when the character is human or a dwarf.

Her response changes to something along the lines of "I don't think that is wise, but it is your choice".

nah she's pretty pissy if a human doesn't do it as I remember

[straykat]

Do you guys remember that priestess that offers her blessing at Ostagar?

I find it kinda funny that she gets offended and calls your Dalish Warden a heathen for refusing it, but doesn't really mind it when the character is human or a dwarf.

Her response changes to something along the lines of "I don't think that is wise, but it is your choice".

 

But either way, she calls you blessed when you survive. lol. So she isn't completely writing you off, I guess.

 

In retrospect though, I think she was right. Red Crossing started because of a few Dalish fools. And two lovers were pointlessly killed -- and those are the two we need to honor. The human woman and male elf.

[Ghost Gal]

Do you guys remember that priestess that offers her blessing at Ostagar?

I find it kinda funny that she gets offended and calls your Dalish Warden a heathen for refusing it, but doesn't really mind it when the character is human or a dwarf.

Her response changes to something along the lines of "I don't think that is wise, but it is your choice".

 

I think she just assumes the human or dwarf is already Andrastian but just declined this blessing, but if you're a Dalish you've got "Not Andrastian" literally tattooed to your face.

 

It is funny, though. Good to know.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm pretty sure she reacts the same way to anyone who refuses the blessing. In fact, I think elves and dwarves are the only ones that can get away with being explicitly non Andrastian without it being awkward.

[The Ascendant]

What are the origins of the Elves? I heard that they used to be spirits but decided to change into more corporeal forms. Any other suggestions or ideas?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think it was a choice. 

[Gervaise]

There has been a lot of speculation based off what we've learnt in game but nothing definite has been revealed.   It just seems a likely explanation, given the magical nature and immortality of the ancient elves and the bad affect being cut off from the Fade had on them, plus what we know about Cole.    No doubt all will be revealed at some point in the future.

 

Something that niggles me about the Dalish and their devotion to recovering their lost culture, how do they understand what the various pieces of lore mean and the words used when they find them?   Is there a Dalish equivalent of the Rosetta Stone out there?  

[Wulfram]

I wonder if the Elves got some of their lore via Tevinter preservation. Tevinter was clearly interested in Arlathan's magical knowledge.

[The Ascendant]

It's strange but every major race has a magical race influencing their development or creation. Elves with spirits, Dwarves and the Titans, Qunari have the Dragons and we humans have our inner demons, literally.

[Reznore57]

There has been a lot of speculation based off what we've learnt in game but nothing definite has been revealed.   It just seems a likely explanation, given the magical nature and immortality of the ancient elves and the bad affect being cut off from the Fade had on them, plus what we know about Cole.    No doubt all will be revealed at some point in the future.

 

Something that niggles me about the Dalish and their devotion to recovering their lost culture, how do they understand what the various pieces of lore mean and the words used when they find them?   Is there a Dalish equivalent of the Rosetta Stone out there?  

 

There's also Mythal turning into a whisp when she died , which is the same as what happens to spirits when they die too.

 

About the elven language , well IRL we're able to decipher some dead language , and it's possible the language was never 100% lost.

The Dalish have songs in elven language for example , it's possible those survive even during slavery.

They still haven't recover everything and who knows it's also possible they do not understand the language completly , often time you can read elven language is subtle and even having a basic understanding of the words doesn't properly convey the meaning of a sentence.

 

One example that comes to mind is Morrigan who can read elven language a bit better than your Dalish Inqui but after drinking from the well she's able to read a book in ancient elven and understand everything .

[Gervaise]

In some ways it is more when some human scholar comes up with a translation of the elvish and it is suggested that the Dalish may have got it wrong: the meaning behind Fen'Harel's name springs to mind.    I was just visiting Fort Revasan again and the human scholar suggests the name means "the place where freedom dwells", yet if you add one extra "s" then it should mean "the arrow of freedom".  

 

Then we have Leliana asking Cillian to translate the runes that lead us to the Temple of Dirthamen.   If these are so ancient how does he know what they mean?   Although of course he got his training in arcane warrior at some unknown remote shrine.   It doesn't say in WoT2 if that shrine was uninhabited, so may be he learnt from either actual elves there or the spirits in the place.      Also she states that Solas speaks the language "perfectly" with an accent that she can't place.    How does she know it is perfect?   Just because someone seems to be speaking a language fluently, it could just be jibberish.   Still it is clear that modern elves don't really know the language because the spirits don't recognise your words when you try to speak with them unless you have drunk from the Well.

 

It was also somewhat confusing in the Temple of Mythal.   There were new texts that we were finding in the place that we could read, yet other texts on the walls that we couldn't without the Well.   I'm not sure if the former were really meant to be examples of what was already taught among the Dalish, even though we were not aware, plus the reflections of humans scholars, so the texts were not really found in the Temple but just being called to mind by seeing the individual shrines.    The suggestion was that the elven language had already changed over time, so the texts that "were passed down for generations" by the Keepers were substantially different from the old tongue.    However, if the Dalish Inquisitor was incapable of reading any of the old texts on the walls of the Temple, then how do the Dalish translate writings they find in old ruins?

 

I take it that the book Morrigan was reading from was the one about the eluvians that she stole from a Dalish clan.   Except I thought she had returned it at the end of Witch Hunt.    If the book was so old, then I assume it must be preserved by magic.   Morrigan, of course, would have a head start in the translation of elvish, having been taught by Flemeth/Mythal.

[Qun00]

Fen'harel wasn't mistranslated. Solas refers to it as Dread Wolf just like everyone else.

[Gervaise]

I know the translation was correct but the human scholar suggested it wasn't.   They apparently thought the root word could be translated either to mean trickster or rebel.   In fact neither of those fits because the actual word is "dread" and it is just the lore of the Dalish that portrays him as a trickster.    In fact it just seemed a convenient way for the writers to introduce the idea that Fen'Harel may have been more a rebel than a trickster.    However, clearly the human scholar is basing their ideas on some language texts they have for elvish.    I just query where they could have got the information from apart from the Dalish and why they were so arrogant as to think their translation was more accurate than the Dalish one.    Yes, Fen'Harel was a rebel but that is not what his name means and up until Trespasser there is really no reason a human scholar should think so.

 

Unless, of course, the human scholar had made the same connection I did about the elven folk tale about a trickster warrior who led a rebellion against tyrants, which human scholars also claim forms part of the Canticle of Shartan (thereby casting doubt on the whole as an authentic record of the activities of Shartan).   In the light of Trespasser this "trickster warrior" is clearly Fen'Harel. 

 

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that in his youth Solas was an arcane warrior.   When talking to him again about the discipline with my elf mage, Solas mentions how the arcane warriors were the bodyguards for the nobility.    All the statues and accounts of his relationship with Mythal seem to suggest that he was some sort of guardian/bodyguard to her, so that would fit with him being an arcane warrior.     

[Wulfram]

This probably isn't intended by the writers, but "dread" in English wasn't always a negative term. It used to just mean inspiring awe or reverence.

So maybe Solas is really the "Awesome Wolf"?

[straykat]

I know the translation was correct but the human scholar suggested it wasn't.   They apparently thought the root word could be translated either to mean trickster or rebel.   In fact neither of those fits because the actual word is "dread" and it is just the lore of the Dalish that portrays him as a trickster.    In fact it just seemed a convenient way for the writers to introduce the idea that Fen'Harel may have been more a rebel than a trickster.    However, clearly the human scholar is basing their ideas on some language texts they have for elvish.    I just query where they could have got the information from apart from the Dalish and why they were so arrogant as to think their translation was more accurate than the Dalish one.    Yes, Fen'Harel was a rebel but that is not what his name means and up until Trespasser there is really no reason a human scholar should think so.

 

Unless, of course, the human scholar had made the same connection I did about the elven folk tale about a trickster warrior who led a rebellion against tyrants, which human scholars also claim forms part of the Canticle of Shartan (thereby casting doubt on the whole as an authentic record of the activities of Shartan).   In the light of Trespasser this "trickster warrior" is clearly Fen'Harel. 

 

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that in his youth Solas was an arcane warrior.   When talking to him again about the discipline with my elf mage, Solas mentions how the arcane warriors were the bodyguards for the nobility.    All the statues and accounts of his relationship with Mythal seem to suggest that he was some sort of guardian/bodyguard to her, so that would fit with him being an arcane warrior.     

 

 

He makes a poor trickster though... because he has no pleasure in it. None of the fun of the archetype imo. 

 

I guess you could say that about Loki too...from Marvel. Emo bastard. More of a stock villain. I guess mythology wise, I prefer the Fox or Coyote. Or the version of Loki/Gabriel from Supernatural.

 

And if anything, Sera (and other City Elves) live up to this than he will.

 

 

I think there still could've been a Shartan who was a trickster... those armies probably could do with some saboteurs. Perhaps Andraste had elven friends who did this and it got lost in one legend.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm fairly sure that the human scholar explained that his theory was not that Fen'Harel didn't mean the Dread Wolf, but that the Dalish conception of him as a god of betrayal would probably be better translated as a god of rebellion? He also points out that the word the Dalish use for him didn't appear before the Towers Age, so I think the implication was that the Dalish Elves' straightforward evil version of the Dread Wolf was a relatively modern idea. He says that the original story of Fen'Harel "may well  have given him more nuanced motivation than spite." And since the elvish word for betrayal only appeared after the Clans were scattered from Halamshiral, perhaps the elves of the Dales actually knew a legend where he was the god of rebellion.

[Reznore57]

I'm fairly sure that the human scholar explained that his theory was not that Fen'Harel didn't mean the Dread Wolf, but that the Dalish conception of him as a god of betrayal would probably be better translated as a god of rebellion? He also points out that the word the Dalish use for him didn't appear before the Towers Age, so I think the implication was that the Dalish Elves' straightforward evil version of the Dread Wolf was a relatively modern idea. He says that the original story of Fen'Harel "may well  have given him more nuanced motivation than spite." And since the elvish word for betrayal only appeared after the Clans were scattered from Halamshiral, perhaps the elves of the Dales actually knew a legend where he was the god of rebellion.

 

I think Solas says his ennemies named him "Dread Wolf" , he also says he took it as a badge of honor ...implying it was far from a honorable title.I could be wrong .

But anyway I find the thing a bit strange , it seems fairly obvious the Dalish mainly recovered pieces of lore  "Evanuris" approved.

There's no murder of Mythal , no false gods , no slaves rebellion , the excesses of the Evanuris are swept under the carpet , even Solas being a somewhat evil trickster is far from new because again in Trespasser you find some codex where the Evanuris warn the people to not trust him .

 

Might be a case of the dev forgetting their own lore or well you can imagine there are many versions of the Dread Wolf stories , and some human scholar find some text by Fen Harel followers praising him and they got confused.

[Gervaise]

Likely there were some followers of Fen'Harel who were probably the ones who passed on the story about the "trickster warrior leading the rebellion against tyrants", which the human scholars picked up on from the elves of the Dales before relations soured between them.    It is likely the name Fen'Harel was missed out from it, though, because of the majority view of him as the bad guy.   Nevertheless you will recall that the Dalish do acknowledge that the Creators trusted him but that he betrayed them, which could be harking back to the time when he was Mythal's trusted guard and the betrayal was the Creators' take on his rebellion in reaction to her death.

 

The lore isn't consistent though.   The scholar suggesting the Dalish only started referring to him as the trickster only appearing in the Towers Age doesn't stack up with the Evanuris giving him the name Fen'Harel as an insult/warning to their followers and the nature of their warning that "He offers advice that seems fair, but turns slowly to poison."    Everything in the Dalish lore about the Creators points to the fact that they are the spiritual (if not literal) descendants of the supporters of the Evanuris.    The priesthood existed during the time of the Dales and it is hardly likely their teaching about the Creators or Fen'Harel had changed very much since then.    The way he speaks about the punishment he inflicted on the Evanuris sure sounds spiteful to me; that is what the Keepers are recalling.    It should be remembered that back in the time of the Dales the Keepers weren't the leaders of the community so much as the lore keepers and archivists in charge of recovering their culture.   So as they ended up leading the survivors it is likely that their version of events would become the accepted one.     The relationship of the Dalish to Fen'Harel is a rather strange one; they call him a trickster and say he betrayed their gods and roams the Beyond feasting upon the souls of the departed; they also invoke his name as a curse; yet they clearly think it wise to make offerings of appeasement to him (if nothing else to leave them alone) and use his image to ward off evil spirits from their camps.   Even Felassan's stories of Fen'Harel are far more in keeping with the image of him as a trickster, who you go to if you have a problem that no one else can fix and whose solutions aren't exactly noble to say the least.

 

I also wonder what was so special about the Towers Age that the scholar should think that was the era in which the Dalish started to think of Fen'Harel as a spiteful trickster instead of a rebel.    What texts had the scholar discovered that showed this, considering the Dalish were hardly likely to have relinquished them willingly?  Really, given the limited storage in a travelling caravan, most lore is likely to be passed down orally, as is often the case with nomadic communities.

 

I've just realised another inconsistency.   How come we could read the warning of the Evanuris or the texts in the Library when we couldn't read the writing in the Temple of Mythal?    I'd like to think it was the anchor giving us the ability but then why didn't it work in the Temple?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Temple of Mythal was built for Mythal's faithful, who would all know how to read it. The Sanctuary of the Dread Wolf was for escaped slaves of the Evnauris, so presumably not everyone could read and so the runes were enchanted to magically project an image or story into people's minds.

[Gervaise]

The Library wasn't in his sanctuary and whilst I can allow this was some sort of memory projection, what of the warning of the Evanuris?     Still I presume the image projection is how Dalish understand things they uncover in old ruins; that would explain a lot.  

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Library was in the Fade, the Fade is constructed entirely by thought. If there is anywhere where concepts would be communicated past a language barrier it would be a Fade Library. 

[Dai Grepher]

I thought "Fen" meant "wolf".

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yeah, but it's not the literal meaning of words Fen'Harel that is the issue of contention.