No, no they aren't. There is absolutely zero evidence in the franchise of the Chantry routinely killing heretics. Hell, The World of Thedas actually says otherwise.
I just told you that the Rivain qunari were killed for being heretics because they would not convert to the Chantry religion- despite a clear break in the peace treaty. What do you call that then?
I just told you that the Rivain qunari were killed for being heretics because they would not convert to the Chantry religion- despite a clear break in the peace treaty. What do you call that then?
a service to the world honestly, the sooner those horned devils are thrown back into the sea the better
My God, you are still doing.
Ok, going to put this as simple as possible. Xil wants to kill tens of thousands or more of innocent humans in order to "provide the elves with a safe homeland" as you put it.
Is that ok with you?
Rest assured, I'm not going to try to start a civil war. And with any luck, the fourth game will provide us with a solution to the problem of an elven homeland.
The elves' attitudes towards Andrastianism are the same as the human's. That is to say, they are varied.
There are devout elves who praise Andraste for her role in liberating them such as Valendrian; elves who seek to find their role within the religion such as the elf in Haven who asks whether it's true Andraste had an elven follower; elves who don't particularly care about it such as the elf in Kirkwall's alienage that thinks the Cleric is bothering him by asking him to take his family to the Chantry more than twice a year; elves who believe in the Maker and Andraste just fine but don't make it their central focus in life such as every elf we've seen using Andraste's name and the Maker's as a praise; and elves who don't follow it, such as the Dalish.
And regardless of how much you feel the Qun gives opportunities, the overwhelming majority of people would never follow it unless forced. Because people, which includes elves, like to have options and make choices.
Elves have the choice to be oppressed or be respected.
"Under the Qun," said the Qunari, "all are equal, and no tamassran thinks herself a mere anything."
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Qunari_Tamassrans
And according to Chant canon, to answer that elf's question, the Chantry claims Andraste only had "human" folowers. All depictions of Shartan as an elf were officially stricken.
I just told you that the Rivain qunari were killed for being heretics because they would not convert to the Chantry religion- despite a clear break in the peace treaty. What do you call that then?
The qunari broke the peace treaty first by refusing to withdraw their forces from northern Rivain. Accordingly, a joint task force of Chantry Templars and Rivain Nationalist forces gave battle to the enemy that had been invading and slaugthering Thedosians for a century.
The qunari broke the peace treaty first by refusing to withdraw their forces from northern Rivain. Accordingly, a joint task force of Chantry Templars and Rivain Nationalist forces gave battle to the enemy that had been invading and slaugthering Thedosians for a century.
lol well. I'm amused that even you don't believe your own lies.
So, um... a little roleplay question. As some of you might recall, Ashalle mentions that Mahariel's parents were ambushed and killed by humans AND city elves.
Do you think that would be enough for one to feel angry or unsympathetic towards city elves, even if just temporarily?
Temporarily, though it wouldn't much matter, given how long it takes to reach the Alienage.
Elves have the choice to be oppressed or be respected.
"Under the Qun," said the Qunari, "all are equal, and no tamassran thinks herself a mere anything."
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Qunari_Tamassrans
And according to Chant canon, to answer that elf's question, the Chantry claims Andraste only had "human" folowers. All depictions of Shartan as an elf were officially stricken.
First of all, that is clearly qunari propaganda.
Second, kind of missed my point. I did not claim people can't be respected under the qun. I claimed that people like being able to choose whereas the qun stripes all choice, even something as mundane as whether one can put a sweet inside a cake.
Rivain's elven qunari then. Heck, the majority of the popluace converted. I remember that it was a Chantry in Rivain that tried to exterminate them because they wouldn't convert back. How can you explain that devotion?
The Qunari of Rivain are mainly in the north of the country, around Kont-aar. It's population is split between Qunari, Chantry and pantheists.
The slaughter of human converts to the Qun in the aftermath of the Llomeryn Accords was perpetrated by more than just the Chantry in Rivain, so it was motivated by more than just religious differences. Rivaini nationalists also were responsible.
But presently Rivaini Qunari are not considered true Qunari by the authority in Par Vollen. Not surprising given the importance of Rivaini Seers in the country.
So, um... a little roleplay question. As some of you might recall, Ashalle mentions that Mahariel's parents were ambushed and killed by humans AND city elves.
Do you think that would be enough for one to feel angry or unsympathetic towards city elves, even if just temporarily?
The take away from that revelation was that murderous bandits don't belong to any one race, so no.
Temporarily, though it wouldn't much matter, given how long it takes to reach the Alienage.
The take away from that revelation was that murderous bandits don't belong to any one race, so no.
That isn't the way Ashalle put it. She says "Yes, but city elves too. Those of our kind that live with humans don't hold on to our ways."
That could just be exposition for the player, rather than an implication that City Elves turned to banditry as a result of turning away from Dalish ways. But even if it wasn't, that was still what my Maharial took from the conversation, regardless.
So, um... a little roleplay question. As some of you might recall, Ashalle mentions that Mahariel's parents were ambushed and killed by humans AND city elves.
Do you think that would be enough for one to feel angry or unsympathetic towards city elves, even if just temporarily?
Yeah, that was a sad revelation; Mahariel's father was murdered, and it seemed like Mahariel's mother became suicidal. I imagine it would be quite the shock to find out what really happened. I think there would be general apprehension about Andrastians in general upon arriving at Ostagar, but I don't think I would play the character as someone who was angry or unsympathetic to city elves in general because of it. If my Dalish encountered the bandits responsible, however... that's another matter entirely.
lol well. I'm amused that even you don't believe your own lies.
A typical reply from someone who has run out of arguments.
Tell you what, let us really analyse my "lies".
First, from an OOC perspective. This is what elicited my reply.
First, Steelcan said:
if they didn't truly convert why aren't they secretly worshiping the creators? hanging onto some traditions doesn't mean they didn't convert.
To which you replied:
Probably because heretics are systematically killed off. People forget that the Chantry religion was a cult among many but strangely the others seem to die off. The elves didn't convert by choice. The Chantry likes to threaten Exalted Marches on those that don't subscribe to their dictates and since they have the backing of Orlais, the most powerful nation, and the Circles and templars through its lyrium monopoly, its a threat that actually holds weight in the South.
And then I said:
No, no they aren't. There is absolutely zero evidence in the franchise of the Chantry routinely killing heretics. Hell, The World of Thedas actually says otherwise.
Which prompted you to say:
I just told you that the Rivain qunari were killed for being heretics because they would not convert to the Chantry religion- despite a clear break in the peace treaty. What do you call that then?
Now, first of all, let us assume for a moment that this was indeed a case of the Chantry killing heretics for being such.
You will still note that you said “systematically killed off” and I said “routinely killing heretics. Now, this was one event in one nation that happened centuries ago in the aftermath of a bloody way against the qunari invaders.
It is most certainly not evidence of a modern policy of killing any discovered to be heretics that elves would be afraid of secretly worshipping the Creators.
Now, let us analyse it from an IC perspective.
Here is what the codex entry on the LLomerryn Accords has to tell us.
The treaty that put an official end to the Qunari Wars was signed on the politically neutral island of Llomerryn off the southern coast of Rivain. 150 years after the assault on the mainland began, the Qunari left our shores. They received the northern archipelago in exchange for cessation of hostilities against all the nations on the accord. Only Tevinter refused to sign, and so the war continues to rage in the Imperium to the present day.
It's worth noting, however, that the Kingdom of Rivain immediately violated the treaty. Twice. Once, when the humans of northern Rivain—nearly all practitioners of the Qun and therefore by definition, "Qunari"—refused to leave their homes and go in exile to the islands. And again, when the Rivain Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves.
As we can clearly see, the terms of the treaty was that all qunari would retreat from mainland Thedas. By refusing to do so, those in Northern Rivain were in violation of the treaty and thus, the Chantry had no obligation to uphold it and cease hostilities.
Where is the lie here?
lol well. I'm amused that even you don't believe your own lies.
A typical reply from someone who has run out of arguments.
Tell you what, let us really analyse my "lies".
First, from an OOC perspective. This is what elicited my reply.
First, Steelcan said:
if they didn't truly convert why aren't they secretly worshiping the creators? hanging onto some traditions doesn't mean they didn't convert.
To which you replied:
Probably because heretics are systematically killed off. People forget that the Chantry religion was a cult among many but strangely the others seem to die off. The elves didn't convert by choice. The Chantry likes to threaten Exalted Marches on those that don't subscribe to their dictates and since they have the backing of Orlais, the most powerful nation, and the Circles and templars through its lyrium monopoly, its a threat that actually holds weight in the South.
And then I said:
No, no they aren't. There is absolutely zero evidence in the franchise of the Chantry routinely killing heretics. Hell, The World of Thedas actually says otherwise.
Which prompted you to say:
I just told you that the Rivain qunari were killed for being heretics because they would not convert to the Chantry religion- despite a clear break in the peace treaty. What do you call that then?
Now, first of all, let us assume for a moment that this was indeed a case of the Chantry killing heretics for being such.
You will still note that you said “systematically killed off” and I said “routinely killing heretics. Now, this was one event in one nation that happened centuries ago in the aftermath of a bloody way against the qunari invaders.
It is most certainly not evidence of a modern policy of killing any discovered to be heretics that elves would be afraid of secretly worshipping the Creators.
Now, let us analyse it from an IC perspective.
Here is what the codex entry on the LLomerryn Accords has to tell us.
The treaty that put an official end to the Qunari Wars was signed on the politically neutral island of Llomerryn off the southern coast of Rivain. 150 years after the assault on the mainland began, the Qunari left our shores. They received the northern archipelago in exchange for cessation of hostilities against all the nations on the accord. Only Tevinter refused to sign, and so the war continues to rage in the Imperium to the present day.
It's worth noting, however, that the Kingdom of Rivain immediately violated the treaty. Twice. Once, when the humans of northern Rivain—nearly all practitioners of the Qun and therefore by definition, "Qunari"—refused to leave their homes and go in exile to the islands. And again, when the Rivain Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves.
As we can clearly see, the terms of the treaty was that all qunari would retreat from mainland Thedas. By refusing to do so, those in Northern Rivain were in violation of the treaty and thus, the Chantry had no obligation to uphold it and cease hostilities.
Where is the lie here?
The Lie is that even the AUTHOR OF THE CODEX ACKNOWLEDGES THAT IT WAS RIVAIN THAT VIOLATED THE TREATY! Your evidence just disproved your own claim.
It's worth noting, however, that the Kingdom of Rivain immediately violated the treaty. Twice. Once, when the humans of northern Rivain—nearly all practitioners of the Qun and therefore by definition, "Qunari"—refused to leave their homes and go in exile to the islands. And again, when the Rivain Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves.
The Lie is that even the AUTHOR OF THE CODEX ACKNOWLEDGES THAT IT WAS RIVAIN THAT VIOLATED THE TREATY! Your evidence just disproved your own claim.
Did you somehow miss that the first violation of the treaty was when the qunari in Northern Rivain refused to leave?
Did you somehow miss that the first violation of the treaty was when the qunari in Northern Rivain refused to leave?
Lol did you not know what violation means? The author states that rivain violated the treaty twice, both times, meaning both times are a violation.
Lol did you not know what violation means? The author states that rivain violated the treaty twice, both times, meaning both times are a violation.
none of that precludes there having been an earlier violation......
none of that precludes there having been an earlier violation......
It does if you have reading comprehension.
Cole said that they sleep. It's quite possible that they won't even have experienced the passing time.
If its a dreamless sleep, you might be right. If they dreamed, and considering their prison is likely in the Fade itself somehow, then sleeping isn't really gonna be a respite.
I do think it'd be interesting if one of them came out of the imprisonment with some kind of new, wise mindset that acknowledges how they used to act and repents of it. Its very unlikely, though. Especially since I'm thinking they're also being "tormented" to some extent in their prison, too. Solas' dialogue implies as much to me.
I know people, and people are led by incentives. Sons aren't their fathers, and if the Qun offers them a better life than a segregated slum where you can only rise as high as royal human ass wiper, there's no reason to be loyal to the Chantry. The privileged always overestimate their influence, but it's clear as day that the glamour of the sunburst throne was built on the conquering and suppression of the elven people. One of their "annointed"- Mhemnet- was a Rivain knight known for his love of killing elves. And they erased Shartan, the one elven part of the Chant from the Chant. You guys are delusional if you think the elves are loyal to that bigoted religion.
They also have different definitions of "incentive", with truth being one of them. If they truly believe the Maker is real and God, they're not going to just drop it for militant atheism b/c the the militant atheists might (and I emphasize might) have better social prospects.
People don't generally join the Dark Side just b/c it has cookies.
So, guys who do you think the ancient elves were fighting in that war that led (eventually) to the evanuris being seen as gods?
So, guys who do you think the ancient elves were fighting in that war that led (eventually) to the evanuris being seen as gods?
Current options are the Titans and the Forgotten Ones. I personally think its the Forgotten Ones, cus the codex entry that mentions earthquakes breaking cities and asks Elgar'nan to "tame the land" (aka the Titans causing the earthquakes) sounds like they already consider him a god then.
Though, for all we know, it could have been against those mysterious reptilian people we only have a codex and a mural of. 
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