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[The Ascendant]

They were most likely fighting the Titans. A war between the Earth and Sky.

[Qun00]

Current options are the Titans and the Forgotten Ones. I personally think its the Forgotten Ones, cus the codex entry that mentions earthquakes breaking cities and asks Elgar'nan to "tame the land" (aka the Titans causing the earthquakes) sounds like they already consider him a god then.

Though, for all we know, it could have been against those mysterious reptilian people we only have a codex and a mural of.

One day the mighty lizards will emerge again and rule the Earth!

[LobselVith8]

So, guys who do you think the ancient elves were fighting in that war that led (eventually) to the evanuris being seen as gods?

 

That's a good question. What battles lead to them becoming gods to their people? I suppose their godhood could be viewed as being similar to the approach Elder Scrolls took with Almsivi and the godhood of the Tribunal, with Ashlanders dismissing them as false gods while the followers of the Tribunal viewed them as gods, as well as what it means to actually be a god (although I don't think Bioware will actually delve into this in the interesting ways Elder Scrolls did with Dunmer lore and their narrative).

[Iakus]

So, um... a little roleplay question. As some of you might recall, Ashalle mentions that Mahariel's parents were ambushed and killed by humans AND city elves.

Do you think that would be enough for one to feel angry or unsympathetic towards city elves, even if just temporarily?

Absolutely.

 

Dalish often refer to city elves as "flat-ears"  and consider them to be not "real" elves.

[Iakus]

They were most likely fighting the Titans. A war between the Earth and Sky.

The Codex entries seemed to refer to fighting the Titans as "hunting the Pillars of the Earth"  I'm not sure tehy would consider a hunt a "war"

 

I'm going with Forgotten Ones too.

 

Hmm, or maybe ancient kossith?

[LobselVith8]

Absolutely.

Dalish often refer to city elves as "flat-ears" and consider them to be not "real" elves.

Some Dalish feel that way, certainly, but I don't know think we can quantify how many since we have other Dalish who talk about welcoming city elves into a hypothetical elven homeland, and how the two ethnic groups can learn from one another.

I do wonder who originated that term since it's also used by some city elves for any elves who leave the Alienage, since they view those elves as tossing aside all that makes them "elven".

[Iakus]

Some Dalish feel that way, certainly, but I don't know think we can quantify how many since we have other Dalish who talk about welcoming city elves into a hypothetical elven homeland, and how the two ethnic groups can learn from one another.

I do wonder who originated that term since it's also used by some city elves for any elves who leave the Alienage, since they view those elves as tossing aside all that makes them "elven".

That's what I was responding to, the RP question about whether a Dalish could dislike city elves, particularly if some were involved in the death of Marahiel's father.  Given the prejudice concerning city elves that exists among some Dalish, it's entirely possible.

 

As I recall, the Sabrae (which is one of the more open-minded Dalish clans) is still initially suspicious of a city elf Warden.

[Lulupab]

Being skeptical about outsiders is actually wise as long as its limited to skeptical attitude and not outright racism.

[LobselVith8]

That's what I was responding to, the RP question about whether a Dalish could dislike city elves, particularly if some were involved in the death of Marahiel's father.  Given the prejudice concerning city elves that exists among some Dalish, it's entirely possible.

 

I realize that, it was more in general commentary; I didn't intend it for your specific character. Perhaps I should have worded it differently to convey that more clearly.

 

As I recall, the Sabrae (which is one of the more open-minded Dalish clans) is still initially suspicious of a city elf Warden.

 

Zathrian's clan in Origins? Mithra is apprehensive about any outsiders. I think that's fairly routine given how outsiders are usually dangerous to the Dalish, although she'll take you to Zathrian directly if you're simply upfront with her about being a Grey Warden.

[The Ascendant]

Found this amazing picture of the Evanuris.

http://vignette2.wik...=20160705070617

[Vit246]

As I recall, the Sabrae (which is one of the more open-minded Dalish clans) is still initially suspicious of a city elf Warden.

 

Because the city elf warden is still a stranger and not every city elf can be expected to feel kinship.

Some of them really could not care less about it.

 

Like Devera.

[Iakus]

 

Zathrian's clan in Origins? Mithra is apprehensive about any outsiders. I think that's fairly routine given how outsiders are usually dangerous to the Dalish, although she'll take you to Zathrian directly if you're simply upfront with her about being a Grey Warden.

Yes, that one.  I mistakenly called it Sabrae clan.

 

Sarel is also openly suspicious of you if the Warden is not Dalish.  As well as to any of your companions

[LobselVith8]

Sarel is also openly suspicious of you if the Warden is not Dalish.  As well as to any of your companions

 

Sarel is angry in general because his wife was recently murdered by the werewolves, although you only discover this if you're playing as a Dalish protagonist. I don't think it's unusual that the Dalish would be suspicious if anyone who isn't part of their clan; the Chantry outlawed their religion, they deal with threats from templars (Ariane protected her clan from a templar) and they are nomadic because they deal with threats from Andrastian humans. The reason Clan Lavellan travels in the Free Marches is because they travel between the territorial boundaries, and that decreases the potential for attacks because one group of Marchers doesn't want to accidently antagonize another by crossing into their territory.

 

We also have a member of Clan Sabrae explaining (in Act III, during Zevran's quest) that they have faced threats from Andrastians who threaten them with violence if they don't convert to the Andrastian faith. Being wary is a matter of survival.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Current options are the Titans and the Forgotten Ones. I personally think its the Forgotten Ones, cus the codex entry that mentions earthquakes breaking cities and asks Elgar'nan to "tame the land" (aka the Titans causing the earthquakes) sounds like they already consider him a god then. 

 

Though, for all we know, it could have been against those mysterious reptilian people we only have a codex and a mural of.

 

The problem with that is we know the Evanuris were already considered gods when the Forgotten Ones rebelled against them from the Geldauran codex entry in Jaws of Hakkon.

[Qun00]

Sarel is angry in general because his wife was recently murdered by the werewolves, although you only discover this if you're playing as a Dalish protagonist. I don't think it's unusual that the Dalish would be suspicious if anyone who isn't part of their clan; the Chantry outlawed their religion, they deal with threats from templars (Ariane protected her clan from a templar) and they are nomadic because they deal with threats from Andrastian humans. The reason Clan Lavellan travels in the Free Marches is because they travel between the territorial boundaries, and that decreases the potential for attacks because one group of Marchers doesn't want to accidently antagonize another by crossing into their territory.

We also have a member of Clan Sabrae explaining (in Act III, during Zevran's quest) that they have faced threats from Andrastians who threaten them with violence if they don't convert to the Andrastian faith. Being wary is a matter of survival.

The Dalish aren't merely cautious. They hate the shemlen. With good reason but yes, they do.

[Hellion Rex]

The problem with that is we know the Evanuris were already considered gods when the Forgotten Ones rebelled against them from the Geldauran codex entry in Jaws of Hakkon.

Geldauran's claim doesn't strike me as someone who is preparing to rebel. It sounds like someone who already lost against them and is planning vengeance in the future. My guess is that those elves who became the Forgotten Ones were not made "forgotten" until they had already lost against the Evanuris.

 

That said, we have no hard evidence as to when then Forgotten Ones acted against the Evanuris.

 

 

 

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

[Sports72Xtrm]

They also have different definitions of "incentive", with truth being one of them. If they truly believe the Maker is real and God, they're not going to just drop it for militant atheism b/c the the militant atheists might (and I emphasize might) have better social prospects.

 

People don't generally join the Dark Side just b/c it has cookies.

The Chantry doesn't provide truth, it provides a fantasy. We cannot scientifically prove that there is a Maker or that this Chantry's Cult dogma is of his design. And when asked to provide proof that their teachings are true, they cannot and so Andrastian zealots invoke "faith" because the have no answers. What's even more perplexing is why you would think the elves would have such blind devotion to a dogma that diminishes them in comparison to their human counterparts. This religion is not the Creators, an enlven belief, its a human belief with flimsy empirical evidence to distinguish any of its tales from fiction. The Chantry teaches elves that they are the "lesser", the "other". The Qun does not. It is also because of the Chantry that they are in alienages and lost their home to an Exalted March. They were abused and subjugated. Even if we dismiss all the exclusivity of the Chantry's religion to the elves, you claim that they would still be devoted because they believe its "true". How can they believe its true with little evidence to support that the Maker is real or that the Chantry's dogma is of his design. At the very least, that is the standard of a logical being's devotion. Without it, you claiming the elves zealotry to a fantasy makes little logical sense.

 

The Qun doesn't have any deities. But it does have a philosophy that objectively makes sense. The world is full of chaos because people are ruled by their passions. Many die because of the world's limited resources, who gets to sit on the fancy chair. One could claim that wouldn't happen under the Qun because there is order, structure, and universal understanding. It doesn't take its dogma from fairy tales, only on what they observe in the reality of the world. A code and government based on rationale, not on fairy tales. What if what you believe is the "dark side" is the "truth"- and your belief in Andrastianism is nothing but zealotry in fantasies?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

As yes, it is clearly observable in reality that non Qunari are not even people but things. And losing one's sword has a tangible effect on their ability to return home.

[Iakus]

Sarel is angry in general because his wife was recently murdered by the werewolves, although you only discover this if you're playing as a Dalish protagonist. I don't think it's unusual that the Dalish would be suspicious if anyone who isn't part of their clan; the Chantry outlawed their religion, they deal with threats from templars (Ariane protected her clan from a templar) and they are nomadic because they deal with threats from Andrastian humans. The reason Clan Lavellan travels in the Free Marches is because they travel between the territorial boundaries, and that decreases the potential for attacks because one group of Marchers doesn't want to accidently antagonize another by crossing into their territory.

 

We also have a member of Clan Sabrae explaining (in Act III, during Zevran's quest) that they have faced threats from Andrastians who threaten them with violence if they don't convert to the Andrastian faith. Being wary is a matter of survival.

Sure, but again this illustrates that a Dalish distrust of city elves is something entirely appropriate for RP purposes

[Sports72Xtrm]

As yes, it is clearly observable in reality that non Qunari are not even people but things. And losing one's sword has a tangible effect on their ability to return home.

To Qunari, a person of the Qun is no more a thing than your own arm is a thing. Do you devalue your arm? If your arm stopped moving, do you devalue it then? That is the reality of it then.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Qunari see other Qunari as people, but they see non Qunari are sub-human objects. The word "bas" translates to "thing." That's why when they confront Isabela about the Tome of Koslun, the Sten says "The bas has no honor, kill it."

[Sports72Xtrm]

Qunari see other Qunari as people, but they see non Qunari are sub-human objects. The word "bas" translates to "thing." That's why when they confront Isabela about the Tome of Koslun, the Sten says "The bas has no honor, kill it."

They see it as "things" because people outside of their understanding are dangerous. Just as Andrastians see mages as dangerous- why? because they are unable to be controlled. Their unpredictability is a threat. Can't say they're completely wrong. Tell me what happened to the Qunari envoys in Kirkwall after Mother Petrice rallied zealots to murder them in cold blood. Tell me what happened to Saemus. They're motivated by greed, ambition, resentment, and not putting the welfare of the community above themselves. It's not exactly virtuous. And there's always two sides of the story. I'll remind you, Isabela is a pirate who's crew killed the Arishok's men unprovoked and stole their tome.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Because the Qunari never bring unprovoked death and destruction to anyone? Qunari see mages as way more dangerous than Andrastians do, given how much more brutalized they are. But mages are dangerous because their powers. Are you actually suggested all people everywhere are so dangerous they need to be controlled? And anyone who doesn't like that is a monster?

 

But seriously, I think you're derailing this thread at this point. Start your own thread about how the Qun is so awesome or something. Most elves aren't going to want to join a super authoritarian regime that sees them as inhuman objects unless they give up their families and culture and live their lives as dictated by the state. Some people are going to feel it is worth it to make that trade, but most of them won't.

[LobselVith8]

The Dalish aren't merely cautious. They hate the shemlen. With good reason but yes, they do.

 

The Dalish also signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens after they lost their homeland, when they had no incentive to do so. Maren, who is leading some of Velanna's clan out of the Wending Wood, responds positively if he sees her in the company of non-Dalish. Merrill likes it if Hawke helps the Ferelden refugees and she advocates protecting the Starkhaven Circle mages from the templars. I don't think we can generalize an entire ethnic group of people.

[Qun00]

You are generalizing them right now as if most clans were like clan Lavellan.

"So you approached the Dalish to invite them for tea and they tied you up instead? You must suffer from terrible luck my friend, because it is very rare for any of them to do that".