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[Dai Grepher]

Well not on the issue of whether he was a trickster or rebel, no. But I was referring to how he was referenced by the elves. Someone wrote it wasn't until the Towers Age that they called him the Dread Wolf, but "Fen" had always meant "wolf". So... what, was the word "fen" only discovered in the Towers age or something? Because Solas had been called Fen'Harel since the days of the evanuris.

[straykat]

There was another theory floating around here awhile back... it kind of blew my mind.

 

But the theory was that Falon'Din and Dirthammen were one and the same. And after he was banished, he was the Dread Wolf. Then later, Mythal might've tentatively let him back.

 

It's more elaborate than this, but you all probably know the thread.

 

http://forum.bioware...lvish-pantheon/

[Gervaise]

I think Solas being Falon'Din and Dirthammen as well as the Dread Wolf would be too much of a stretch.    I do think he could have been the servant of Dirthammen who committed the sin of taking the form of the gods and appealed to Mythal for clemency, only to be refused.    Then the punishment given him by Elgar'nan was to serve Mythal in perpetuity or alternatively he was banished to the Void from which Mythal later recalled him to serve her.

 

The god that is likely to spring the next surprise from the elven pantheon is June.    I don't subscribe to the Sandal is June theory.    The writer in the Temple (again presumably the human scholar who thinks they know so much more than the elves) says that little is known of June, which of course is nonsense since the Dalish clearly call him the god of craft and the youngest of the children of Mythal. (I wish I knew where the author was getting his information from).   In the Library it refers to Sylaise giving a gift to "clever" June in response to a favour he did for her.  So June as a creator of wonders would fit with this but may be his "cleverness" relates more to his powers of planning or something similar and he is ultimately going to be revealed as the mastermind behind Mythal's downfall.   Could this even be the "great favour" that is referred to?

[straykat]

I think Solas being Falon'Din and Dirthammen as well as the Dread Wolf would be too much of a stretch.    I do think he could have been the servant of Dirthammen who committed the sin of taking the form of the gods and appealed to Mythal for clemency, only to be refused.    Then the punishment given him by Elgar'nan was to serve Mythal in perpetuity or alternatively he was banished to the Void from which Mythal later recalled him to serve her.

 

The god that is likely to spring the next surprise from the elven pantheon is June.    I don't subscribe to the Sandal is June theory.    The writer in the Temple (again presumably the human scholar who thinks they know so much more than the elves) says that little is known of June, which of course is nonsense since the Dalish clearly call him the god of craft and the youngest of the children of Mythal. (I wish I knew where the author was getting his information from).   In the Library it refers to Sylaise giving a gift to "clever" June in response to a favour he did for her.  So June as a creator of wonders would fit with this but may be his "cleverness" relates more to his powers of planning or something similar and he is ultimately going to be revealed as the mastermind behind Mythal's downfall.   Could this even be the "great favour" that is referred to?

 

Right now, my only hopes in the Creators being salvagable is June.. just because he's seems to have escaped the bad rep they all have. He doesn't sound monstrous, so far. And there is some suggestion that he created himself. Maybe he's not really one of them at all.

 

That and he's associated with their warriors and knights.

[Solas]

pass the elfroot pipe bruh

[straykat]

Who me or him? i'm not speculating really. Can't be me.

[Gervaise]

Showing my ignorance again but where is June referred to as being associated with warriors and knights?     Is this something that Cillian reveals in multiplayer?    Only he has the vallaslin of June and of course is an arcane warrior.    Or is it the tabletop RPG again?

[straykat]

Showing my ignorance again but where is June referred to as being associated with warriors and knights?     Is this something that Cillian reveals in multiplayer?    Only he has the vallaslin of June and of course is an arcane warrior.    Or is it the tabletop RPG again?

 

Oh, I just meant the sword Evanura is forged by the high keeper of June. This was passed down and wielded by various Emerald Knights. And June is the craftman..One of June's pictures has him standing next to an anvil. He may be associated with Eluvians or whatever, but for the average elf, they'd be more concerned with practicalities. Coupling Andruil and June, they learned the ways of warriors and hunters.

[Gervaise]

Surely that is what blacksmiths do, they craft things from metal, including swords.   The Dalish say he also crafted bows for the hunters to use and harness for wagons.    Naturally they are thinking in terms of things they find useful but it would be entirely in keeping with his role as the god of craft that he would fashion weapons for warriors to use, particularly considering that the Evanuris originally rose to power as generals in a war.   Even the Dalish acknowledge they fought wars against the Forgotten Ones, so it would have been considered appropriate for the High Keeper of June to have forged swords for the Emerald Knights.    Still it is also possible that he was the patron of arcane warriors, particularly considering Cillian does have his vallaslin; I simply imagined that this was because he regarded his skills to be a craft that needs perfecting.    Then again, Cillian may have acquired his vallaslin long before his decision to depart his clan to seek out the skills.

[Qun00]

It is odd that Andruil and June are credited with teaching the Dalish their way of life, considering that they left this world long ago.

I suppose it creates a closer connection between their people and the old Pantheon, but it also means some brilliant minds from the Dales have gone unrecognized. You know, the actual individual that tried figuring out this wanderer life thing.

[straykat]

It is odd that Andruil and June are credited with teaching the Dalish their way of life, considering that they left this world long ago.

I suppose it creates a closer connection between their people and the old Pantheon, but it also means some brilliant minds from the Dales have gone unrecognized. You know, the actual individual that tried figuring out this wanderer life thing.

 

Well, they weren't wanderers before... Although during the Tevinter days, I bet it was nearly impossible to practice with any weapons or smithing weapons for any elves. I'm not sure how they kept any of their traditions up.

 

If you mean just the Dales, I agree.

[Aliceeverafter]

You know what grinds my gears? Colorful vallaslin.

I mean, sure, it's fine for those who stay at camp like the halla herder or the Keeper, but you don't want bright red tattoos giving you away when you're hunting.

yeah considering it's made of blood how colourful can you get it? dark brown or .... dark brown. I always go for slightly faded, cos it's blood right, and it fades. and it's ... dark brown.

[The Ascendant]

Would the Elves of modern times believe Solas? He's unbelievable powerful that is not in question, but his claims could be upsetting and no one likes to admit that they are wrong. Even if the evidence is substantial.

[Wulfram]

Would the Elves of modern times believe Solas? He's unbelievable powerful that is not in question, but his claims could be upsetting and no one likes to admit that they are wrong. Even if the evidence is substantial.

Also, "Hi, I'm the notorious trickster god, Fen'harel!" isn't a very good start if you want to be believed.

[Lulupab]

I would still like to see Thedas without the veil, its actually the natural state of the world. I don't necessarily want humans to get extinct, if they are meant to be dominant they will find a way, but right now they are living in a "fake" state of Thedas.

 

Jokes on chantry folk, the maker did not create the veil to protect them. 

[raging_monkey]

Would the Elves of modern times believe Solas? He's unbelievable powerful that is not in question, but his claims could be upsetting and no one likes to admit that they are wrong. Even if the evidence is substantial.

curious to how many elves joined him cause if there is a mass exodus it's going to be pretty bare

[Qun00]

yeah considering it's made of blood how colourful can you get it? dark brown or .... dark brown. I always go for slightly faded, cos it's blood right, and it fades. and it's ... dark brown.

I don't think it's JUST blood. Otherwise it would be impossible to use it as ink.

[straykat]

I would still like to see Thedas without the veil, its actually the natural state of the world. I don't necessarily want humans to get extinct, if they are meant to be dominant they will find a way, but right now they are living in a "fake" state of Thedas.

 

Jokes on chantry folk, the maker did not create the veil to protect them. 

 

I don't.. I value tactile/sensory experience too much, as a real person. This goes beyond roleplaying appeal.

 

And it's a win for the type of fantasy fans who are shut-ins and intuitive/imaginary types for their own good (there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.. I just think the setting as it is appeals to both people right now). By that I mean, the type of people who mock physical beauty, sports, simple pleasures... almost anything to do with "normal" people. It's usually a bit pretentious.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I don't.. I value tactile/sensory experience too much, as a real person. This goes beyond roleplaying appeal.

 

And it's a win for the type of fantasy fans who are shut-ins and intuitive/imaginary types for their own good (there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.. I just think the setting as it is appeals to both people right now). By that I mean, the type of people who mock physical beauty, sports, simple pleasures... almost anything to do with "normal" people. It's usually a bit pretentious.

Well the whole immortality, magic for everyone, and no diseases sounds pretty cool.

[straykat]

Well the whole immortality, magic for everyone, and no diseases sounds pretty cool.

 

All overrated...

 

I guess I just come from the other school of fantasy fans who wished he coud kill people with swords. I'm a simple man.

 

And diseases are part of the fun of fantasy too. Grime, dirt, diseases, rabid dogs, dysentery, toothless peasants wearing potato sacks...

 

Even my Dalish Warden... my elfy character... is just a hunter. The thing I like the most about that character is the origin reminds me of a childhood memory, when me and some friends wandered where we shouldn't.. and a friend fell off a rope we were swinging across... at the bottom lay a bunch of refuse and old wood. It split his leg open.. it was horrifying. Point being though, what anchors me to the Dalish is still pretty down to earth.

[Gervaise]

Strangely enough I think the elves who crafted things are the ones who most likely kept the lore going.    Slaves in Tevinter do all sorts of tasks, including manual work.  However, the elf physique for the most part would be unsuited to heavy manual labour but they might well be highly suitable for crafting.    Often crafts are passed down through families and there is no reason why it shouldn't be the same among the slave workers.   Along with the actual skills of crafting, they may well have passed on tales of the patron of crafting, June, which if nothing else gave them a pride in their workmanship.     The armies of the Magisters would have needed swords and bows.   It is also possible that there were slave legions.   In Sister Petrine's version of the Shartan story, Shartan and his elves were part of the Tevinter forces who switched sides at a critical point in the battle, which turned the tide in the battle.   In the Canticle of Shartan it was they were already part of Andraste's forces and simply used fire arrows against ice walls that had cut her off but turncoat soldiers in the Tevinter ranks would make a lot of sense in swinging the tide of battle.   Think about it, mages don't usually stand on the front line in battle but direct things from behind, so the enemy has to fight their way through to get to them, but if your own soldiers turn on you that would take them completely by surprise.

 

Anyway, in the fledgling Dales, elves who had actual skills that involved making things would have been very important in helping arrivals survive and getting their economy going, which would at least account for why the devotion to gods who were patrons of crafting, hunting and weaving became popular.      Then in the aftermath of the conquest, when the Dalish were forced into a nomadic life, devotion to these gods would again have come to prominence.

 

As for the stories about the gods teaching the elves these skills, this could have been true, depending on what you think the origins of the elves are.   If the Creators were the first to cross from the Fade to the material world (assuming elves were originally spirits that became material beings) then they might well have been the ones who developed these skills and then taught them to those the followed on later.

[Qun00]

It may be overthinking it, but do you guys remember that line in the HoF's letter, "May Mythal protect you in your quest and Andruil bless your Hunt"?

I can't find a reason why the Warden wouldn't choose the god that corresponds to his/her vallaslin when wishing someone luck.

If you have Elgar'nan's vallaslin, that means he is one of the elven gods you admire the most. Why wouldn't you say " may Elgar'nan strike down your enemies" instead of mentioning Andruil?

And so on.

All overrated...

I guess I just come from the other school of fantasy fans who wished he coud kill people with swords. I'm a simple man.

And diseases are part of the fun of fantasy too. Grime, dirt, diseases, rabid dogs, dysentery, toothless peasants wearing potato sacks...

Even my Dalish Warden... my elfy character... is just a hunter. The thing I like the most about that character is the origin reminds me of a childhood memory, when me and some friends wandered where we shouldn't.. and a friend fell off a rope we were swinging across... at the bottom lay a bunch of refuse and old wood. It split his leg open.. it was horrifying. Point being though, what anchors me to the Dalish is still pretty down to earth.

You're... you're a dude? My life is a LIE! D:

[Gervaise]

The true answer is that the writers had no idea which vallaslin your Warden had so went with something that could apply to general sentiments.   However, it does make sense that they would wish you protected, hence calling on Mythal, and that you would be successful in your hunt for Corypheus, so calling on Andruil.   Whilst Elgar'nan is a god of vengeance, the Warden might not be sure if you are a vengeful sort and even if you are, may want to strike down your own enemies, so sticking with gods that will protect/aid you without interfering in your actual fight might seem expedient.   It might even be that invoking Elgar'nan is something personal that you only do as you engage in battle against your enemies and he is not thought to intervene on behalf of anyone not committed to him.    So the Warden would yell "Elgar'nan take you" as they launch into battle but they would not make such a request on behalf of anyone else.

[Merengues 1945]

Oh Maker no, I once aligned with the Elven plea and even went out of my way to help Merrill and Briala, but after trespasser, hell no. I'm done with magic, qunari and elves, I say down with their heads.

 

Seriously though, I'm kind of sundered in this matter; I like the elves, Zevran and Fenris are some of my favourite characters, but things should stay as they are, we don't know what bringing down the veil down could cause now that we have other races involved in the whole thing, and apparently old elven society was not much better than the tevinter imperium. For the good of all elves, guys like Solas need to be put down like the mad dogs that they are.

[Qun00]

The true answer is that the writers had no idea which vallaslin your Warden had so went with something that could apply to general sentiments. However, it does make sense that they would wish you protected, hence calling on Mythal, and that you would be successful in your hunt for Corypheus, so calling on Andruil. Whilst Elgar'nan is a god of vengeance, the Warden might not be sure if you are a vengeful sort and even if you are, may want to strike down your own enemies, so sticking with gods that will protect/aid you without interfering in your actual fight might seem expedient. It might even be that invoking Elgar'nan is something personal that you only do as you engage in battle against your enemies and he is not thought to intervene on behalf of anyone not committed to him. So the Warden would yell "Elgar'nan take you" as they launch into battle but they would not make such a request on behalf of anyone else.

Mmm... how about "May Ghilan'nain guide your path"?