1599 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

I've been giving some thought to how the Dalish would have developed their magical culture separately from everyone else.    It is clear that every culture that has members that can do magic, whether they want them or not, has an understanding that mages can be possessed.    I'm not saying that the Dalish aren't aware of that danger or would have measures to counter it.   I simply take issue with the idea they would do so by simply abandoning excess mages.    This seems totally with odds with how they view magic as a gift of the Creators and a proud part of their heritage.     Still I am willing to accept that Minaeve's clan was an exception: in fact I use it in my own fiction when describing Lavellan's attendance at the Arlathaven.   He pours scorn on any clan that would do this and says how it has shamed them in the eyes of the humans that they would abandon a child in this way.   

 

Vivienne may have learned about the 3-mage rule from Minaeve.   It is also possible that Minaeve's clan did what others do when Templars approach and hid her out in the forest, intending to return and collect her once they were gone and something went wrong.    Who knows?   Templars were obviously in the area at the time because it was a Templar who saved her from the villagers.    I could actually see Dalish scouts warning of an approach by Templars and telling all their mages to disappear into the forest, except the Keeper since the Templars would probably know about that.   There could even be a situation where they were approaching the Dalish because they had recently been trading with a human village and the villagers took note on the number of mages and their age.   So the Templars turn up and the Dalish spin a yarn to them about not having too many mages because they are afraid of abominations.   It's not true but it gets them off their back and then the information gets passed back.   The story could have done the rounds of the Circles and be thought as indicative of all Dalish purely because of the incident with Minaerve. 

 

I think that Iron Bull may have picked up on this erroneous bit of lore about the Dalish and assumed it applied to his Dalish, who did not choose to contradict him.   Dalish only says that the Keeper asked her to take a hike and view the world.    I'm fairly convinced that what happened is that Dalish was dabbling in magic that was forbidden by the clans and the Keeper banished her as a result, not something she would admit to Bull.  

 

There would be a very valid reason why there is a prohibition against blood magic in the Dalish and likely Necromancy as well; this would trace back to the foundation of the Dales.    It is not purely because of the fear of spirits that these two types of magic would be shunned but their association with the evil of Tevinter.   Numerous slaves would be arriving with tales of what they had to endure as being a source of magical blood (as is given in a story in World of Thedas).   Others would recount witnessing the sacrifice of innocents (as Fenris does).   I'm pretty sure that would have decreed that no elf should ever indulge in blood magic out of respect to the memory of all their brethren who had died from it aside from anything else.    If you throw in the increased risk of possession, which the witnesses might also be able to attest to and you can see why it was such a cultural taboo.    This is why any mage being discovered doing blood magic is promptly ejected from the clan.   If we discover that blood magic originated with the ancient elves, that will be simply a sad irony.  

 

As for Necromancy this originated in Tevinter.   There were not Mortalitasi at the time of the Dales to give a more positive outlook on the school of magic, since they did not exist in Nevarra until after the fall of the Dales.    So like blood magic, this type of magic would have very negative connotations with Tevinter.   In view of the fact it involved the manipulation of spirits, against which they would also be wary, this would account for the prohibition against this as well.  

 

I doubt the slaves ever witnessed a Spirit Healer at work, so would not realise the potential benefits of working with spirits.    In any case, in this respect I dare say they would regard the risks of dabbling with spirits outweighed the benefits.    The revelation that their ancestors seemed to have very good relations with spirits and even seemed to receive magical instruction from them might be something that would cause them to revise their former opinion but on balance I would imagine they would think it safer to let the original prohibition stand.

 

When the elders of the Dalish heard what Zathrian had done in using prohibited blood magic and manipulation of a nature spirit, they did not rejoice that he had discovered a new type of powerful magic.   On the contrary they condemned his action as a "crime against nature" for manipulating the heart of the Brecilian Forest in that way.   That would seem to be the Dalish attitude to magic.   A gift of the Creators when used responsibly, a crime when it is not.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I've been giving some thought to how the Dalish would have developed their magical culture separately from everyone else.    It is clear that every culture that has members that can do magic, whether they want them or not, has an understanding that mages can be possessed.    I'm not saying that the Dalish aren't aware of that danger or would have measures to counter it.   I simply take issue with the idea they would do so by simply abandoning excess mages.    This seems totally with odds with how they view magic as a gift of the Creators and a proud part of their heritage.     Still I am willing to accept that Minaeve's clan was an exception: in fact I use it in my own fiction when describing Lavellan's attendance at the Arlathaven.   He pours scorn on any clan that would do this and says how it has shamed them in the eyes of the humans that they would abandon a child in this way.   

 

Vivienne may have learned about the 3-mage rule from Minaeve.   It is also possible that Minaeve's clan did what others do when Templars approach and hid her out in the forest, intending to return and collect her once they were gone and something went wrong.    Who knows?   Templars were obviously in the area at the time because it was a Templar who saved her from the villagers.    I could actually see Dalish scouts warning of an approach by Templars and telling all their mages to disappear into the forest, except the Keeper since the Templars would probably know about that.   There could even be a situation where they were approaching the Dalish because they had recently been trading with a human village and the villagers took note on the number of mages and their age.   So the Templars turn up and the Dalish spin a yarn to them about not having too many mages because they are afraid of abominations.   It's not true but it gets them off their back and then the information gets passed back.   The story could have done the rounds of the Circles and be thought as indicative of all Dalish purely because of the incident with Minaerve. 

 

I think that Iron Bull may have picked up on this erroneous bit of lore about the Dalish and assumed it applied to his Dalish, who did not choose to contradict him.   Dalish only says that the Keeper asked her to take a hike and view the world.    I'm fairly convinced that what happened is that Dalish was dabbling in magic that was forbidden by the clans and the Keeper banished her as a result, not something she would admit to Bull.  

 

There would be a very valid reason why there is a prohibition against blood magic in the Dalish and likely Necromancy as well; this would trace back to the foundation of the Dales.    It is not purely because of the fear of spirits that these two types of magic would be shunned but their association with the evil of Tevinter.   Numerous slaves would be arriving with tales of what they had to endure as being a source of magical blood (as is given in a story in World of Thedas).   Others would recount witnessing the sacrifice of innocents (as Fenris does).   I'm pretty sure that would have decreed that no elf should ever indulge in blood magic out of respect to the memory of all their brethren who had died from it aside from anything else.    If you throw in the increased risk of possession, which the witnesses might also be able to attest to and you can see why it was such a cultural taboo.    This is why any mage being discovered doing blood magic is promptly ejected from the clan.   If we discover that blood magic originated with the ancient elves, that will be simply a sad irony.  

 

As for Necromancy this originated in Tevinter.   There were not Mortalitasi at the time of the Dales to give a more positive outlook on the school of magic, since they did not exist in Nevarra until after the fall of the Dales.    So like blood magic, this type of magic would have very negative connotations with Tevinter.   In view of the fact it involved the manipulation of spirits, against which they would also be wary, this would account for the prohibition against this as well.  

 

I doubt the slaves ever witnessed a Spirit Healer at work, so would not realise the potential benefits of working with spirits.    In any case, in this respect I dare say they would regard the risks of dabbling with spirits outweighed the benefits.    The revelation that their ancestors seemed to have very good relations with spirits and even seemed to receive magical instruction from them might be something that would cause them to revise their former opinion but on balance I would imagine they would think it safer to let the original prohibition stand.

 

When the elders of the Dalish heard what Zathrian had done in using prohibited blood magic and manipulation of a nature spirit, they did not rejoice that he had discovered a new type of powerful magic.   On the contrary they condemned his action as a "crime against nature" for manipulating the heart of the Brecilian Forest in that way.   That would seem to be the Dalish attitude to magic.   A gift of the Creators when used responsibly, a crime when it is not.

 

I love this post and the only thing I hate right now is that I have run out of likes.

 

On another note, do you know Elven mages are treated in Tevinter ? Are they treated better than Elves with magic or are they treated as slaves ? Can Elven mages attend Tevinter Circles ? I ask because according to Dorian, Tevinter Circles are not mandatory or compulsory, but a privilege.
 

[Gervaise]

I've answered this over on the Tevinter post, but essentially a slave is a slave until they are freed and as such can be used however their master sees fit.   In Calpernia's story she is actually more afraid once her magic is discovered because of the likelihood of being used in magical experiments.   Apparently mage blood must be more potent than normal.   We know they regard elf blood as special, so elf mage blood would be really sought after.   This would raise their value but pretty much ensure their continued exploitation for blood.   Probably never enough to kill them, just make them feel weak and ill, like the account the slaves gives on his arrival in Halamshiral in World of Thedas.   In their own interests the master would probably teach the slave enough magic not to get possessed and then like Calpernia just leave them to it.  On the whole it would seem the outlook for a slave mage, whether elf or not, is probably worse than a non-mage. 

 

Elven mages can be made liberati.   We know that from Fenris' sister.   Liberati can join Circles but I imagine would need to find a sponsor in order to do so.   If the elf mage was sufficiently talented it is just possible that a senior mage might find it more in their interests to train them rather than simply exploit their blood.  So it is not impossible for an elf mage to rise to prominence as a liberati, just likely even more difficult than for a human.    I always took Danarius' promise to make her a Magister with a pinch of salt.   What he promised was to start her on the rung of the ladder, probably by sponsoring her to a Circle, but he certainly couldn't guarantee to make her one, unless he was thinking of making her his heir.    Mind you, he probably thought  her a promising pupil if she was willing to sell out her brother in good old Tevinter style and he had lost Hadriana to Fenris.       How difficult it can be for a mage from a lowly background is actually brought out by that little girl who was slave to Hadriana.   She actually says she felt sorry for Hadriana because other mages made fun of her and I think she was implying that made Hadriana more ruthless as a result.  

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Dalish, as mentioned before by myself, is a liar. One clan.

What's the evidence that Dalish is lying about that? The only lie I can recall Dalish telling is about her "bow", which is clearly tounge-in-cheek and not even really meant to be believed. Its just an technical excuse in case any templars get any bright ideas. 

 

I think Dalish was just there to poke fun at the people complaining how a mage Hawke could not be discovered by templars despite doing magic openly.

I'm out of likes, but I liked this. 

[LobselVith8]

It's not a retcon to make the Circles seem like a good thing, I think, so much as it is a retcon to make the Circles seem like an inevitable thing. Is it better to abandon children in the woods than to, basically, commit general crimes against humanity? Bleh. They also do it with the Vashoth.

It was addressed as a recton that seemed to have been implemented to invalidate the Dalish as an example of an alternative to the Chantry controlled Circles; given how this recton comes up and is followed by pro-Circle or pro-templar dialogue from Minaeve, Vivienne, and Iron Bull, it's a fair point to bring up.

But we can't have it both ways. If this is a retcon, then Viviene is right. You can't both say that it's a retcon and that she's an unreliable narrrator.

If the developers decide to follow the lore of the games prior to Inquisition, the unreliable narrator is the easiest way to dismiss the presence of the recton in Inquisition.

[In Exile]

It was addressed as a recton that seemed to have been implemented to invalidate the Dalish as an example of an alternative to the Chantry controlled Circles; given how this recton comes up and is followed by pro-Circle or pro-templar dialogue from Minaeve, Vivienne, and Iron Bull, it's a fair point to bring up.

If the developers decide to follow the lore of the games prior to Inquisition, the unreliable narrator is the easiest way to dismiss the presence of the recton in Inquisition.

It's not just about the Dalish, because Vivienne says the same thing about the Vasoth (that they abuse and mutilate weak mages much like the Saarebas) in the equivalent conversation you would have as a Dalish mage if you roll a Vasoth mage (maybe this also comes up for non-mages - I've never played one in DAI so I have no idea).

The Dalish were never an alternative to the Circles. It doesn't make sense to suggest they were, as they represent a true society of free mages. Just like the Avaar or the Rivani Seers. I don't think an anthesis is the same thing as an alternative.

That's why I don't think it's Dalish specific. I agree with you on the consequences of the retcon and I also agree with you that it's a bad and self-serving one to try and legitimize the templars in a heavy handed way. Our only difference is whether it's about the Dalish rather than, basically, petulant objecting to the fans not seeing the issue as grey as the writers want.

I disagree you can dismiss a retcon. If you could dismiss it, then it can't be a retcon because there's no change in the continuity. To me, this is the very thing that makes a retcon bad generally and this retcon especially bad. We had a society of free mages that illustrated the good and ill of mage freedom IMO: people living in tranquility with one another regardless of magic, but mages rising to their natural position as rulers and lords over non-mages, which raises social justice issues. That to me was always the moral question with the mages and ultimately no different than an extreme case of people with ability becoming leaders in society.

[TEWR]

What's the evidence that Dalish is lying about that? The only lie I can recall Dalish telling is about her "bow", which is clearly tounge-in-cheek and not even really meant to be believed. Its just an technical excuse in case any templars get any bright ideas. 

 

I'm out of likes, but I liked this. 

 

Well, she does have vallaslin, an indication that she was a part of a clan. Given that magic manifests at a young age, and vallaslin is the mark of adulthood, it's easy to see that what Bioware *wants* us to believe doesn't mesh well

[Gervaise]

You know I've just checked the conversation and Dalish only says "Our Keeper thought I should see the world a little."    It is Bull who launches into they can't have too many mages explanation and he doesn't even mention the rule of 3, just too many mages.    I think that Dalish was not necessarily asked to leave because they had too many mages.   I think Dalish was a bit lippy with the Keeper, probably wanting to try things that the Keeper didn't approve of, so the Keeper told her to get out and see what life is like out in the world without her clan, thinking she would soon come back with her tail between her legs apologising, but Dalish thought "S*d you, I will see the world" and that is how she ended up joining the Chargers.   It is actually rather similar to what happened with Merrill.   Marethari sent her away with Hawke in the hope that she would see sense and then she would have been welcomed back but Merrill stuck to what she believed was right and likely Dalish did too.    Merrill was banished principally for using blood magic but also because of her fixation with the eluvian.   Dalish may have just been dabbling with blood magic.   It is a taboo among the Dalish.  Then Bull just assumes that she was asked to leave because they had too many mages.  If Dalish was doing something illicit, particularly blood magic, she is hardly going to admit as much.  

 

Another thing I noticed about Dalish, she has an odd accent.    It's like she really wanted to lose her connection with the Dalish by taking on the accent of people outside the clan.    I base this on the fact that the standard accent for Dalish is now Irish.   They explained it was originally going to be Welsh for DA2 but apparently didn't have enough voice actors, so that is why Merrill sound different from the others.   The only other Welsh sounding elf is Solas' agent and of course Solas himself, so I wonder if they are now veering towards making ancient elves sound Welsh.

[In Exile]

You know I've just checked the conversation and Dalish only says "Our Keeper thought I should see the world a little."    It is Bull who launches into they can't have too many mages explanation and he doesn't even mention the rule of 3, just too many mages.    I think that Dalish was not necessarily asked to leave because they had too many mages.   I think Dalish was a bit lippy with the Keeper, probably wanting to try things that the Keeper didn't approve of, so the Keeper told her to get out and see what life is like out in the world without her clan, thinking she would soon come back with her tail between her legs apologising, but Dalish thought "S*d you, I will see the world" and that is how she ended up joining the Chargers.   It is actually rather similar to what happened with Merrill.   Marethari sent her away with Hawke in the hope that she would see sense and then she would have been welcomed back but Merrill stuck to what she believed was right and likely Dalish did too.    Merrill was banished principally for using blood magic but also because of her fixation with the eluvian.   Dalish may have just been dabbling with blood magic.   It is a taboo among the Dalish.  Then Bull just assumes that she was asked to leave because they had too many mages.  If Dalish was doing something illicit, particularly blood magic, she is hardly going to admit as much.  

 

Another thing I noticed about Dalish, she has an odd accent.    It's like she really wanted to lose her connection with the Dalish by taking on the accent of people outside the clan.    I base this on the fact that the standard accent for Dalish is now Irish.   They explained it was originally going to be Welsh for DA2 but apparently didn't have enough voice actors, so that is why Merrill sound different from the others.   The only other Welsh sounding elf is Solas' agent and of course Solas himself, so I wonder if they are now veering towards making ancient elves sound Welsh.

No, Dalish is being a smart ass. Like the bow, the point about "seeing the world" is another lie designed to cover up the truth (bow => staff, see the world => too many mages). It's a retcon. 

[Qun00]

I'm enjoying watching this gameplay so much, mainly because she actually is playing DAO for the first time. Every reaction is genuine.



But... none of the videos seem to even reach 100 views. I'm worried that she might stop.

So, could you guys take a look at least? It's a lot of fun and she is playing a Dalish elf.

[Gervaise]

That was interesting actually because she chose the dialogue option that resulted in Tamlen saying how the Keeper has a big book that she won't let the rest of the clan see.   I didn't remember that so may be you did have to choose something particular.   Still, that's weird.   Do you suppose all Keepers are like that, keeping the lore books to themselves?   Or was this something specific to Marethari?   I'd definitely be one of those people who would feel that everyone should be allowed access to the lore books and if not allowed, would find a way to take a sneak peak.   It smacks of someone wanting to keep the knowledge to themselves in order to boost their status as the lore expert of the clan.   Still if it wasn't a regular bit of lore but something a bit more sinister, that could account for why Marethari wanted to keep it hidden.   Was that ever mentioned anywhere else?   

[Bayonet Hipshot]

That was interesting actually because she chose the dialogue option that resulted in Tamlen saying how the Keeper has a big book that she won't let the rest of the clan see.   I didn't remember that so may be you did have to choose something particular.   Still, that's weird.   Do you suppose all Keepers are like that, keeping the lore books to themselves?   Or was this something specific to Marethari?   I'd definitely be one of those people who would feel that everyone should be allowed access to the lore books and if not allowed, would find a way to take a sneak peak.   It smacks of someone wanting to keep the knowledge to themselves in order to boost their status as the lore expert of the clan.   Still if it wasn't a regular bit of lore but something a bit more sinister, that could account for why Marethari wanted to keep it hidden.   Was that ever mentioned anywhere else?   

 

I think its more like the Keepers for the most part keep the lore amongst themselves and their apprentices. The hunters are taught basic reading, writing and communication skills with their time primarily being spent on learning stealth, survival, hunting, trap-making, alchemy, archery, bladework, etc.

 

They probably do this for a few reasons. Nomadic societies are very survivalist in nature which means there is little time for the people in charge of clan protection and clan resource gathering such as the hunters to spend their time learning lore and history since academic and magical knowledge acquisition takes time and since the Elvhen are no longer immortal, they have to make tough choices on who gets to be the lore expert and who gets to be the clan defenders. Since Mages mostly spend their time studying or crafting alchemical concoctions (unless if you are a Qunari Saarebas that is), it would make sense for Dalish Mages to focus on lore and history with the Hunters focusing on practical skills that I mentioned above.

 

Remember how Tamlen and Mahariel both do not recognize the Elven rune and Falon'Din in the Dalish Origin story ? Remember how Merrill in DA2 stated that she was somewhat always isolated from her clan because she would be busy studying magic and history whereas the others would be doing something else ?

 

Having said that, not all clans are the same so Keeper Deshanna might not behave like Keeper Marethari. Also, you can roleplay non-Mage Lavellan and Mahariel as people who are curious of history and knowledge regardless of their status as non-Mages in a Dalish clan.

[Gervaise]

You can still have a bit of spare time for study though.   Look at that young hunter (his name escapes me at the moment) from Zathrian's clan who gives you a book if you help him.   I suppose you could argue that if he spent less time reading and mooning over his love and more time concentrating on learning his skills, he'd make a better hunter.    Still I wonder if it was just Marethari being secretive.

 

Speaking of understanding runes and ancient writing, I came across an interesting bit of trivia concerning the poem, Where the Willows Wail.   This was meant to be based on an older elven rhyme, the rough translation of which was given underneath.   The text states it was taken from a stone carving in the newly discovered temple to Mythal.   So that must mean the one in the Arbor Wilds.  Anyway, looking through the elven I suddenly realised there was the word: "Glandival".   This would be the stem of the word "Glandivalis", the name of Shartan's sword that was given to him by Andraste and came to her from her mother.    I think the word connected with it in the poem is believe, so could Glandivalis mean faith or keeping the faith, or something similar?      This got me wondering.   I've pretty much proved over on the lore page that Shartan couldn't have been Solas but could the sword that Andraste gave to Shartan have once belonged to Fen'Harel?    This then links back to the Canticle of Shartan and the moment that Andraste presents the sword to Shartan.  "Take this, my Champion, and free our people forever."    Given the references to the old elven folktale in the preface to the Canticle, could it be that Andraste did in fact know the origins of the sword and that it was the sword of the ancient rebel against mage tyrants?  (In his conversations with Blackwall, Solas does seem to suggest he was once a warrior and arcane warriors were meant to guard the nobles and Fen'Harel seemed the guardian of Mythal so he could have once carried a sword, bearing in mind in the original spec Arcane Warriors used actual swords.)

[Bayonet Hipshot]

You can still have a bit of spare time for study though.   Look at that young hunter (his name escapes me at the moment) from Zathrian's clan who gives you a book if you help him.   I suppose you could argue that if he spent less time reading and mooning over his love and more time concentrating on learning his skills, he'd make a better hunter.    Still I wonder if it was just Marethari being secretive.

 

Speaking of understanding runes and ancient writing, I came across an interesting bit of trivia concerning the poem, Where the Willows Wail.   This was meant to be based on an older elven rhyme, the rough translation of which was given underneath.   The text states it was taken from a stone carving in the newly discovered temple to Mythal.   So that must mean the one in the Arbor Wilds.  Anyway, looking through the elven I suddenly realised there was the word: "Glandival".   This would be the stem of the word "Glandivalis", the name of Shartan's sword that was given to him by Andraste and came to her from her mother.    I think the word connected with it in the poem is believe, so could Glandivalis mean faith or keeping the faith, or something similar?      This got me wondering.   I've pretty much proved over on the lore page that Shartan couldn't have been Solas but could the sword that Andraste gave to Shartan have once belonged to Fen'Harel?    This then links back to the Canticle of Shartan and the moment that Andraste presents the sword to Shartan.  "Take this, my Champion, and free our people forever."    Given the references to the old elven folktale in the preface to the Canticle, could it be that Andraste did in fact know the origins of the sword and that it was the sword of the ancient rebel against mage tyrants?  (In his conversations with Blackwall, Solas does seem to suggest he was once a warrior and arcane warriors were meant to guard the nobles and Fen'Harel seemed the guardian of Mythal so he could have once carried a sword, bearing in mind in the original spec Arcane Warriors used actual swords.)

 

1) Solas does not seem to be the type who wants to be a Dirth'ena Enasalin. He is a battlemage in the sense he fights via spellcasting and he also prefers to rely on cunning over brute force so I doubt Glandivalis belonged to him or that Andraste knew about the Evanuris. If she did, we would not find people like Ameridan worshiping the Creators. Remember, Solas is lot like Loki and there are multiple accounts of him being a benevolent woodsman seeking to offer counsel.

 

2) I am going to disappoint you by saying that the hunters would not have much time to study lore and history. I know this because I took a few anthropology classes in my summer semesters in college (I was sponsored so I decided to study instead going on vacations) and in one of them, the professor talked about spending time with some hunter-gatherer tribes as part of his research and their days are quite packed. They spent most of the daytime hunting and gathering food. I presume that Dalish hunters must lead somewhat similar lives. Also, many of the hunters had amazing stamina and look lean and athletic, like an endurance runner and almost all hunter-gatherers are tanned instead of being pale. Sadly Dalish Elves, especially the males, look anorexic. Another interesting thing is that in many tribes, it is the men who do the hunting and the women who do the gathering but Thedas is obviously a different place since only the Qunari practice sex-specific division of labor.

[The Ascendant]

I am curious if Demons were as big of a problems for the Ancient Elves as they are in modern times. Considering that the Elves could be pretty despicable and the Veil hadn't been formed, would Demons have been as prevalent, or did the overwhelming power of the Evanuris render then into a nuisance?  

[Gervaise]

I'm not saying that Andraste knew about the Evanuris but she might well have known about the elven folk tale.   The Dalish all knew about this tale too, but apparently did not make the connection with Fen'Harel (or so we are led to believe).    The important bit is that the elven folk tale was about a warrior fighting against tyrants (the mage part was my addition), Andraste was a war chief fighting against tryants and Shartan was a warrior fighting against tyrants.    I've realise now that it was Shartan who named the sword after Andraste gave it to him but it is still described as a mystic blade and therefore likely elven that originated in the Dales.    The translation of "Keeping the faith" would be applicable because Andraste has pronounced him an eternal champion for freedom and so is indicating his promise to keep faith with her.

[The Ascendant]

Do you think a good Dragon Age game would be the life of Andraste and the First Exalted March. We don't play as the prophet herself of course, but maybe one of the people who interacted with her and saw what she was really like, but that person got erased by the Chantry historians because of what they knew and represented. Ideally we would limit the race choice to just an Elf or Human because the Qunari hadn't arrived yet and the Dwarves were still allies of the Imperium. Just a thought. We know how the story ends, but how it begins and what really happened are open to interpretation. 

[Reznore57]

I am curious if Demons were as big of a problems for the Ancient Elves as they are in modern times. Considering that the Elves could be pretty despicable and the Veil hadn't been formed, would Demons have been as prevalent, or did the overwhelming power of the Evanuris render then into a nuisance?  

 

Ancient elves were really powerful , and they had spirits among them ...so they should have known how to handle "spirits" and if not they could always destroy them.

I think demons themselves wouldn't have been a huge issue but abominations are another story.

An abomination is the demon power+ the power of the mage so a super magey meatsuit.

Now without the veil , perhaps there was no urge to merge but an elven mage could have wanted to get posessed to enhance his/her power.

But honestly I don't know .

It may have been impossible back then...or forbidden by the Evanuris ...

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I am curious if Demons were as big of a problems for the Ancient Elves as they are in modern times. Considering that the Elves could be pretty despicable and the Veil hadn't been formed, would Demons have been as prevalent, or did the overwhelming power of the Evanuris render then into a nuisance?  

 

If we look to Solas and Trespasser DLC, it is clear that Ancient Elvhen viewed demons and spirits that are unwell. The Archivist in Vir-Dirthara mentions that other spirits are unwell and the realize that these unwell spirits are demons. Remember, a demon is a spirit that has been corrupted of its original purpose. It is very likely that the Ancient Elvhen knew how to cure/exorcise this "unwell-ness".

[Gervaise]

If you look at long distance runners they are often very lean.   I was a long distance runner myself in my youth and I did look anorexic.   Doctors and health visitors would question if I ate enough.    I had an enormous appetite.     I simply had a very fast metabolism and constantly fiddling with things and not able to keep still (these days they would probably call me ADHD).   So whilst it wouldn't do any harm for the elves, particularly the non-mages, to look a bit more chunky and muscular, the fact is you can be very slim, fit and strong.   Besides long distance running I could shoot a bow, was considered lethal when fencing (no one else wanted to fight me) and could ride a horse. (I still can)  My upper arms and legs were strong from all the grooming and lugging around of hay bales I did.    Besides if you put the elf in Dalish armour, at least in the cut scenes they do look as if they are more muscular.  

[The Ascendant]

Sounds like the Evanuris made a Rehab for Demons to make them into spirits again. 

[The Ascendant]

Speaking of Glandavalis, what was it doing with that Pride Demon in Dragon Age 2? Was it the real sword or a copy, like the Blade of Mercy or the Shield of Ser Aveline?

[Gervaise]

I seem to be following you around.   Posted in both Solas and here because of the relevance to both.   It is implied that the sword in DA2 is the original and not a copy.    There is no indication of how the sword came to be there but we know that Shartan died outside of Minrathous.   So it is quite possible a Magister picked up the sword as a trophy and then took it south with them to Kirkwall.   Then they were killed by Hubris and that is how it came into his possession.   

[The Ascendant]

I seem to be following you around.   Posted in both Solas and here because of the relevance to both.   It is implied that the sword in DA2 is the original and not a copy.    There is no indication of how the sword came to be there but we know that Shartan died outside of Minrathous.   So it is quite possible a Magister picked up the sword as a trophy and then took it south with them to Kirkwall.   Then they were killed by Hubris and that is how it came into his possession.   

I just post the question on the two most relevant threads dealing with Elves. I am sure it's pure coincidence you answered both. Still odd. You would think a legendary sword like that should be in a museum or something. Is there anything like a museum in Thedas? I think that the closest you get to are Circle Towers, The University of Orlais and the Arcanist Hall in Tevinter. 

[Gervaise]

The thing is the Tevinter side wouldn't have really known its significance or even that Andraste had given it to Shartan.   It might have seemed a curiosity and it would have been studied to see if they could learn anything useful from it but it was likely just claimed by one of those in charge of the battle.   I don't think they donate things to anything like a museum in Thedas because of the personal kudos in having these things in your possession.    It is something you can bring out at your dinner parties and boast of how you were there when they cut the upstart elf down.   There was apparently all sorts of old Tevinter stuff on the  black market in Kirkwall, much of which had come from the area of dark town, books, scrolls and artefacts.    So it could even have been stolen from the person and then the thief was killed by Hubris. 

 

I am guessing that the real Sword of Mercy is in the charge of the Black Divine but that has great significant to the origins of the faith in Tevinter but in some ways they wouldn't want to put the sword of Shartan on public show because the last thing they want to do is remind slaves about how he rebelled and many elves successfully won their freedom as a result, even if it didn't ultimately end well for him.   Like the south they probably want to minimise Shartan as much as possible.   He may have died but he died fighting and free trying to save someone else, having successfully broken free of his chains prior to that; too much a symbol of hope for their slave workforce.