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[Gervaise]

The Forgotten Ones were real.   The Dalish recount them as being really bad news.   There were still Dalish who worshipped them when they were in the Dales.    The rest of the elves considered they had abandoned everything they held dear in return for a terrible power.   It is possible that the Forgotten Ones could still answer prayers whether Fen'Harel imprisoned them or not.    They were said to hang out in the Void according to that text in the Temple of Mythal, so the gift they give to their supplicants is likely the secret of accessing Void magic or alternatively simply blood magic.   The elves in the Tirashan also still worship them    They were not powerful enough to challenge the Creators when they were at full strength but if they were engaged in a battle towards the end, may be losing Mythal tipped the balance and encouraged them to directly attack the Creators instead of remaining in the shadows.    We still don't know what their relationship was to Fen'Harel but the quotation in Jaws of Hakkon attributed to Gelduran suggests he held very similar views about the Creators' claim to godhood.   By changing the designation of the elven gods to Evanuris, has obscured whether that term applies to just the Creators or to the Forgotten Ones as well.     I think we shall be hearing a lot more from them in the future and we are going to discover they are anything but minor players.  For example, they could be the ones responsible for the Blight.

[The Ascendant]

Wonder where the Forgotten Ones are if they aren't the Old Gods?

[Gervaise]

Still hanging out in the Void I should imagine.   From what Gelduran states, being forgotten was a deliberate ploy so that he could strike without warning when the time was right and no one would expect it.   Fen'Harel would know of course but we weren't allowed to ask him.

[In Exile]

Still hanging out in the Void I should imagine.   From what Gelduran states, being forgotten was a deliberate ploy so that he could strike without warning when the time was right and no one would expect it.   Fen'Harel would know of course but we weren't allowed to ask him.

 

They presumably already struck when Solas created the Veil, based on the Dalish stories about that time period. One simple explanation for the Blight is that it's just a weapon the Evanuris created and planned to unleash against the Forgotten Ones, and why the darkspawn and Blight seek out the OGs to taint them. 

[Qun00]

Do the Dalish feel any attachment to the nation they roam most often?

I'm not sure if it's right to say "Ferelden is my home" when Sten asks the Warden about the reason why s/he is fighting the Blight.

[Hellion Rex]

Wonder where the Forgotten Ones are if they aren't the Old Gods?

Maybe hiding in plain sight? I feel that they survived the fall of Arlathan, or at least most of them did. Perhaps they found ways of extending their lives to survive the ages as they waited.

[IHaveReturned1999]

They should create a game about the Ancient Elves and the downfall of their empire. I want to know how exactly what happened to the point what was it like for the Ancient ones how they lived their lives, and why the Evanuris is slowly getting corrupt.

[Hellion Rex]

I want to hear more from the Evanuris end of story. While I don't doubt they had serious issues, I feel like we are more so much of puzzle, and I felt like Solas didn't necessarily tell us the whole story.

[Gervaise]

Of course Solas didn't tell the whole story.  Like every victor in a conflict, he told it from his perspective.    This is why to the Dalish, the natural successors to the supporters of the Evanuris, he is the villain.    This view is unlikely to be improved by the fact that their empire wasn't destroyed by Tevinter but by him.    Everything they have subsequently suffered could be put down to the fact that he locked their gods away.     Tevinter barely managed to defeat a small remnant of the power of the elven empire.   The humans only rose to power off the back of pillaged elven artefacts.   Had the elves still had access to their magic, let alone their gods, there would be no Imperium, no Orlais and likely as not no Qun.   With the exception of the last case, the humans could regard Solas as something of a hero to them since their civilisation would never have got off the ground but for his actions.  Unfortunately, he now regrets what he did and wants to reverse the process, so he has become a villain to the other races as well.    For all we know, the reason he has such a vendetta against the Qun is because he feels partly responsible for their existence. 

 

If the Dalish were to support Solas it is only because they would want their gods back.   However, history has proven that they can't trust him, so I hardly think that is going to be unqualified support.    If I was advising them,  I would suggest taking a neutral stance until he is a bit more forthcoming about what he exactly intends to do and how it is going to impact on them in terms of chances of survival.     It may be that he will try to manipulate them, as Felassan did clan Virnhen but he has a problem in that they thought Felassan was Dalish.    If he reveals himself as Fen'Harel there is going to be a natural distrust.   If he doesn't reveal himself but goes to them as he did previously, a wandering city elf, then why should they believe anything he says?    This is why thinking they chased him away just because they were too arrogant to listen is not really seeing it from their perspective.    A city elf turns up and starts rubbishing their gods.   What are the Dalish to think except this is some Chantry influenced outsider who is trying to take their culture away from them, just as the humans have persistently tried to do for the last 1800 years since the fall of the settlement in Arlathan Forest.   Whatever the truth about the Evanuris, the Creators as they remember them is part of their community identity and they are not going to abandon that identity lightly.

 

The Forgotten Ones were the villains in Dalish legends and that is why I feel it is important that we find out more about them.  It is considered a crime to worship them and a sign you have rejected your elven identity and morals.    Yet they seem to have remained in communication and at the very least have active worshipers.   That, if nothing else, requires investigation.     Just before the Veil went up Dalish legends say they were engaged in a war with the Creators.      I don't believe the Dalish got that entirely wrong and so I suspect the Forgotten Ones had some part to play in what went on there.   May be they even tricked Fen'Harel into believing the Evanuris were responsible for the death of Mythal.   That would be ironic wouldn't it; the Trickster being tricked.

[The Ascendant]

Aside from the Inquisition, which has either disbanded or under Chantry control, the Qunari and his own Elves who knows about Solas? I imagine that the people who know will keep this under wraps. Imagine the panic the knowledge that an ancient powerful Elven Mage who essentially created modern Thedas wants to destroy the world would do.

[Reznore57]

Aside from the Inquisition, which has either disbanded or under Chantry control, the Qunari and his own Elves who knows about Solas? I imagine that the people who know will keep this under wraps. Imagine the panic the knowledge that an ancient powerful Elven Mage who essentially created modern Thedas wants to destroy the world would do.

 

I imagine most people won't care.Fen Harel means nothing to most people.The general population won't believe one word of that.

[IHaveReturned1999]

If I were the keeper I would send an emissary to go to Alienages to evaluate the situation, talk to the city elves about the daily life living under humans, and what horrors that the elves face day to day. If I was an emissary I gather everything I can about them, and offer them a choice to leave the cities and claim their freedom with the Dalish.

[Reznore57]

If I were the keeper I would send an emissary to go to Alienages to evaluate the situation, talk to the city elves about the daily life living under humans, and what horrors that the elves face day to day. If I was an emissary I gather everything I can about them, and offer them a choice to leave the cities and claim their freedom with the Dalish.

 

They can't do that.

Sure they can pick up a couple of city elves , but that's it.

You have to feed people , and the Dalish live mainly off the land , they don't have cattle beyond hallas (and it seems they don't eat those).Too much people and they'd starve.

[IHaveReturned1999]

They can't do that.
Sure they can pick up a couple of city elves , but that's it.
You have to feed people , and the Dalish live mainly off the land , they don't have cattle beyond hallas (and it seems they don't eat those).Too much people and they'd starve.

I never said that all should go it would be too risky because too much people would attract attention to humans. What I mean by choice I mean for those who want to leave and go find them, and they should have The Emerald Graves, The Arbor Wilds, and The Dales back to them anyways so all elves could have a home.

[MisterJB]

Terrible idea. Let's say all 10K of the elves in Val Royeaux decided to join the Dalish who have family units in the numbers between 50 and 100.

An increase of that size demands an entirely different living style. Suddenly, your group requires not just food, but living space and resources to produce clothes, tools, etc for these thousands of people. As you try to extract these from Thedas, you inevitably begin to infringe upon the domains of humans who own the resources you required.

Conflict, armies, 10000 dead elves.

[IHaveReturned1999]

Terrible idea. Let's say all 10K of the elves in Val Royeaux decided to join the Dalish who have family units in the numbers between 50 and 100.
An increase of that size demands an entirely different living style. Suddenly, your group requires not just food, but living space and resources to produce clothes, tools, etc for these thousands of people. As you try to extract these from Thedas, you inevitably begin to infringe upon the domains of humans who own the resources you required.
Conflict, armies, 10000 dead elves.

Not if they set a treaty and every monarch of human nations including the Divine with the Dalish Emissaries would negotiate a treaty to have their land back The Dales.
The terms are:

* The Tevinter Imperium should pay compensation for the Slavery of the Elven people.

* The Chantry is not allowed to build missionaries within elven territory.
* Human merchants can establish trading and business deals at the border of the territory, negotiations with the heads of state, and the Grey Wardens to conscript elves to join them against the Blight. But they cannot buy and own land within elven territory.

* And if any human comes at their territory disturbing the peace by starting racial conflicts, attempted murder and rape elven citizens, or any other crime that harms one of the people will be dealt with in the elves discretion.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not if they set a treaty and every monarch of human nations including the Divine with the Dalish Emissaries would negotiate a treaty to have their land back The Dales.
The terms are:

* The Tevinter Imperium should pay compensation for the Slavery of the Elven people.

* The Chantry is not allowed to build missionaries within elven territory.
* Human merchants can establish trading and business deals at the border of the territory, negotiations with the heads of state, and the Grey Wardens to conscript elves to join them against the Blight. But they cannot buy and own land within elven territory.

* And if any human comes at their territory disturbing the peace by starting racial conflicts, attempted murder and rape elven citizens, or any other crime that harms one of the people will be dealt with in the elves discretion.

No nation would agree to that treaty. If the Dalish want to have a homeland, they are going to have to make compromises. 

[IHaveReturned1999]

No nation would agree to that treaty. If the Dalish want to have a homeland, they are going to have to make compromises.

Why not? It's a good treaty and it would put an end to the racial strife and oppression of elves and have peace and it's fair. All they have to do is to leave each other alone and it would be no war.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why not? It's a good treaty and it would put an end to the racial strife and oppression of elves and have peace and it's fair. All they have to do is to leave each other alone and it would be no war.

For starters, none of the nations benefit from it and a few suffer from it. Not just Orlais, but other smaller groups of humans like the Avvar who live in that part of the world like those of Stone-Bear Hold.

 

Also, it does not end racial strife and oppression. Your conditions have it no humans can enter and if they do they will be disposed of with the human nations having no say, causing racial strife. And the Elves who do not want to live the Dalish ways are forced to, thus being oppressed. 

[IHaveReturned1999]

For starters, none of the nations benefit from it and a few suffer from it. Not just Orlais, but other smaller groups of humans like the Avvar who live in that part of the world like those of Stone-Bear Hold.
 
Also, it does not end racial strife and oppression. Your conditions have it no humans can enter and if they do they will be disposed of with the human nations having no say, causing racial strife. And the Elves who do not want to live the Dalish ways are forced to, thus being oppressed.

Well the Avvar, The Chasind could stay @ human nations to live and thrive so it would be no problem. And I mentioned if a human starts mess they would be dealt with at their own discretion, or kick them out and warn that person to never come back. Plain and simple.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well the Avvar, The Chasind could stay @ human nations to live and thrive so it would be no problem. And I mentioned if a human starts mess they would be dealt with at their own discretion, or kick them out and warn that person to never come back. Plain and simple.

So you are forcing them to live in the situation that the elves were in? You do know why people like the Avvar and Chasind live away from the rest of humans, right? It's because they are the same as the Dalish, wanting to live the way they want to. You just proved that this hypothetical nation of yours is just as racist if not more so than any human nation has ever been. The human nations at least let those tribal people live in parts of the wilderness of their nations. Just another reason why no nation in Thedas would agree to the treaty.

 

And you skipped the part about the elves who don't want to live the way the Dalish wants them to? What happens to them? Do you force and oppress them to live the ways the Dalish want?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Let's look at your ideas for the treaty again and give examples that would more likely have the other nations agree to the idea. 

* The Tevinter Imperium should pay compensation for the Slavery of the Elven people.

This one sadly will never happen. Both because Tevinter would see no reason to do so, but also because they aren't in a position to do so with their war with the Qun going on. 

 

* The Chantry is not allowed to build missionaries within elven territory.

This condition would stop the Chantry and every other nation from agreeing. Instead, the condition could be perhaps similar to the Citadel in Mass Effect where there are zones in the nation where the Chantry is allowed to preach and the elves who want to worship there can. In exchange, the Chantry can't harass elves who do not wish to convert. Likewise, those elves who follow the Elven Pantheon can't harass the humans or elves who follow the Chantry.

 

*Human merchants can establish trading and business deals at the border of the territory, negotiations with the heads of state, and the Grey Wardens to conscript elves to join them against the Blight. But they cannot buy and own land within elven territory.

This wouldn't fly. Instead it would have to be something like the humans who live in the Dales are still allowed to own their land and live their, and the unclaimed land(there is plenty) goes to the elves. In exchange, just like the elves that would live in this nation, the humans who live there would have to pay taxes to the government. As for trading posts, those could also exist in the before-mentioned zones where the Chantry is allowed. Though why merchants aren't allowed full access I don't get. 

 

* And if any human comes at their territory disturbing the peace by starting racial conflicts, attempted murder and rape elven citizens, or any other crime that harms one of the people will be dealt with in the elves discretion.

For this, instead of humans not being allowed in at all humans are allowed in but like any nation while they are there they have to follow the nation's laws. 

[IHaveReturned1999]

So you are forcing them to live in the situation that the elves were in? You do know why people like the Avvar and Chasind live away from the rest of humans, right? It's because they are the same as the Dalish, wanting to live the way they want to. You just proved that this hypothetical nation of yours is just as racist if not more so than any human nation has ever been. The human nations at least let those tribal people live in parts of the wilderness of their nations. Just another reason why no nation in Thedas would agree to the treaty.

And you skipped the part about the elves who don't want to live the way the Dalish wants them to? What happens to them? Do you force and oppress them to live the ways the Dalish want?

What's wrong with the elves having their own homeland? Free to live and worship as they please. No repression, oppression, or purges. If there are elves that wish to remain in the Alienage, so be it. They will be subject to whatever laws and regulations the humans dole out. Purges included. The dwarves have Orzammar but the elves aren't allowed to have their own nation. There is the Tevinter Imperium. They are allowed to govern themselves. But the elves cannot. That's the kind of thinking that smacks of racism, you think?

[Vit246]

Damn it just stop this. IHaveReturned is not a serious arguer.

[The Ascendant]

Land is a finite resource, one no one will ever willingly give up.