They can become Brothers and Sisters, thus are priests and priestesses. They just can't be Mothers or higher.
Again, these are not priests. Sebastian is not a priest. Even Grand Chancellor Roderick isn't a priest. There are many, many ecclesiastical offices that are not the priesthood; elves can hold some, but none of any real rank, and definitely not the priesthood.
When was the last time you ever saw an Elf priest or Templar? Be honest. The most you ever see of Elves related to the Chantry is in the Circle, and while a life in the Circle is no doubt better than one in the slums they don't exactly have a choice to be there.
Arielle, the elven lady we save in Sebastian's quest in Act 2 of Dragon Age 2. In Act 3 she sends us a letter that says:
Arielle, the elven lady we save in Sebastian's quest in Act 2 of Dragon Age 2. In Act 3 she sends us a letter that says:
To the Champion of Kirkwall:You've done so much for so many people, so you probably don't remember me. But you saved my life. I've spent three years thinking about what that awful Lord Harimann might have done to me; surely the Maker sent you to shine His light on that madhouse. When I left and walked into the sun, it was like waking from a nightmare. I don't know how we endured it. That place was a spider's web, and we were the flies.I didn't know where to go at first, but I ended up seeking shelter at the chantry in Starkhaven. I'm a sister now, and I take my vows next month! They've given me a chance to pay back the good fortune you gave me, and they've even taught me to read and write. Me! The daughter of a washer-woman!With eternal gratitude,Sister Arielle
None of that contradicts anything that I said. Note that in the Catholic Church, the main inspiration for the Chantry, priests are always called "father," with "brother" and "sister" being lesser honorifics. The Chantry is the same way.
Well I'll be damned. But I am going to be cynical and consider this an exception not the general rule.Arielle, the elven lady we save in Sebastian's quest in Act 2 of Dragon Age 2. In Act 3 she sends us a letter that says:
To the Champion of Kirkwall:
You've done so much for so many people, so you probably don't remember me. But you saved my life. I've spent three years thinking about what that awful Lord Harimann might have done to me; surely the Maker sent you to shine His light on that madhouse. When I left and walked into the sun, it was like waking from a nightmare. I don't know how we endured it. That place was a spider's web, and we were the flies.
I didn't know where to go at first, but I ended up seeking shelter at the chantry in Starkhaven. I'm a sister now, and I take my vows next month! They've given me a chance to pay back the good fortune you gave me, and they've even taught me to read and write. Me! The daughter of a washer-woman!
With eternal gratitude,
Sister Arielle
Well I'll be damned. But I am going to be cynical and consider this an exception not the general rule.
Again, these are not priests. Sebastian is not a priest. Even Grand Chancellor Roderick isn't a priest. There are many, many ecclesiastical offices that are not the priesthood; elves can hold some, but none of any real rank, and definitely not the priesthood.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Regardless, whether those positions are considered part of the clergy or not doesn't matter since the thing I was replying to was if they have a place in the Chantry, to which the answer is an absolute yes.
Well I'll be damned. But I am going to be cynical and consider this an exception not the general rule.
I'm glad I was able to show you something new. 
Or more likely it was retconned like the dalish mage rule. Otherwise, why does Divine Leliana's trespasser epilogue outright say nonhumans and men can finally become priests?
They could never be bloody priests in the first place. There were no retcons.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
No, we don't, because that presupposes that you aren't simply factually wrong.
Regardless, whether those positions are considered part of the clergy or not doesn't matter since the thing I was replying to was if they have a place in the Chantry, to which the answer is an absolute yes.
They have a place, yes. At the bottom.
None of that contradicts anything that I said. Note that in the Catholic Church, the main inspiration for the Chantry, priests are always called "father," with "brother" and "sister" being lesser honorifics. The Chantry is the same way.
Yeah, but she says she's a sister "now" and then she will be taking vows "next month". So the vows are for another level of religious life other than Sister. Sounds like she's being ordained.
If this was real life and we were talking the Catholic Church, I'd say she was going from lay sister to nun, but the Chantry doesn't seem to have an equivalent to nuns, just monks. Seems like there's only two spots for women, lay sister and priest (with grand cleric, etc. being higher levels thereof). So, I think she must be referring to being ordained.
Yeah, but she says she's a sister "now" and then she will be taking vows "next month". So the vows are for another level of religious life other than Sister. Sounds like she's being ordained.
If this was real life and we were talking the Catholic Church, I'd say she was going from lay sister to nun, but the Chantry doesn't seem to have an equivalent to nuns, just monks. Seems like there's only two spots for women, lay sister and priest (with grand cleric, etc. being higher levels thereof). So, I think she must be referring to being ordained.
Given that brothers/sisters do take vows, as seen with Sebastian, either she's currently just a lay sister or she's confusing tenses in her excitement. Also, women can fill all of the slots that men do in the Chantry. Sister Justine in DAO is the first example who comes to mind.
Again, these are not priests. Sebastian is not a priest. Even Grand Chancellor Roderick isn't a priest. There are many, many ecclesiastical offices that are not the priesthood; elves can hold some, but none of any real rank, and definitely not the priesthood.
They are, however, real ranks with real power and relevance within the bureaucracy and the establishment. Priests aren't the only people to hold power within a church, nor do they occupy all the positions of relevance needed to claim that, if they aren't priests, they have no spot within the Chantry.
You're over-reaching your claim as usual, Xilizhra. There is discrimination, and there is a lack of elven priests in the upper echelons, but that doesn't mean the Chantry doesn't accept elves or that elves can't advance through the beuracracy and exist solely at the bottom.
It's because the elves were stripped of their culture, religion, and history from the evils of slavery. So they raised to believe in the Chantry to worship and the subconscious mind views humans as superior because the Maker is a human deity.I never really understood why would Elves become Andrastian. They have no place in the Chantry as an organisation, aside from being servants of course, and it doesn't seem to value them in any real way. Of course you have the odd one or two who genuinely believe in the Maker, Andraste and all that, but it seems to me that the ideas of the past have very little to do with the Chantry as an organisation.
In the Chantry there are lay sisters/brothers who have not yet taken vows, which I think was the case with Leliana, and there are lay sisters/brothers who have taken vows, which is what Sebastian did. Then after his family were massacred, he started to reconsider his position. His vows prevented him from seeking secular power but he felt he had a duty to his family as well. Up until Leliana's reforms I don't believe that it was possible for an elf to be anything other than a sister or brother in the Chantry.
So far as a homeland for elves is concerned, the best bet would be the southern Dales. Since the Arbor Wilds belonged to no one and the ancient ones have now vacated, the simplest solution would be to offer that area to the Dalish and anyone else who wants to be more secluded. They can use the old Temple of Mythal as their capital and make use of the other ruins to construct buildings. They wouldn't be evicting anyone else because previous the ancient elves killed any intruders and even the Dalish kept away as a result. For an area so far south, it seems very lush and plenty of wildlife, so the Dalish at least ought to have the survival skills to make a go of it. Then the Emerald Graves could be a jointly run buffer zone, with a combined council of races to protect all interests in the area. Fairbanks could be the head of the human delegation and Briala for the elves. They could decide the laws to govern the area and who would be allowed in. (Chevaliers probably not welcome). Everyone would be allowed to follow the faith of their choosing. If the Chantry complained, the example would be held up of Ameridan, who was friend to Drakon, head of the Inquisition and worshipped both the Maker and his own gods.
They are, however, real ranks with real power and relevance within the bureaucracy and the establishment. Priests aren't the only people to hold power within a church, nor do they occupy all the positions of relevance needed to claim that, if they aren't priests, they have no spot within the Chantry.
We don't know enough to know to what rank they can rise outside of the clergy, and where else power is located in the Chantry. Like Roderick. How powerful is he actually? Cassandra dismisses him as a bureaucrat because she's apparently an idiot, but he seems to have a great deal of influence.
it wouldn't be unlikely for her to not have a great deal of respect for many offices if the Chantry that she views as unnecessary to their fundamental goal of saving souls.We don't know enough to know to what rank they can rise outside of the clergy, and where else power is located in the Chantry. Like Roderick. How powerful is he actually? Cassandra dismisses him as a bureaucrat because she's apparently an idiot, but he seems to have a great deal of influence.
We don't know enough to know to what rank they can rise outside of the clergy, and where else power is located in the Chantry. Like Roderick. How powerful is he actually? Cassandra dismisses him as a bureaucrat because she's apparently an idiot, but he seems to have a great deal of influence.
Well, templars can hold a great deal of power, and they take vows:
http://dragonage.wik...antry_Hierarchy
Only those folk who take vows become initiates. These are men and women in training, whether in academic knowledge or the martial skills of a warrior. All initiates receive an academic education, although only those who seek to become templars learn how to fight in addition.
And we know elves are not barred from becoming templars. It's just rare due to racial bias:
https://twitter.com/...945667910303744
It just seems to me that humans have a collective unconscious mindset to hate elves. They want to see them in squalor, enslaved, or dead and the elves have not done anything to them. Something is wrong with them and they have a mentality of sheep.
Not at all.
It just seems to me that humans have a collective unconscious mindset to hate elves. They want to see them in squalor, enslaved, or dead and the elves have not done anything to them. Something is wrong with them and they have a mentality of sheep.
Considering the number of humans we have seen not want that, you are objectively wrong.
Not all snakes are poisonous but they have the nature of a snake.Considering the number of humans we have seen not want that, you are objectively wrong.
Not all snakes are poisonous but they have the nature of a snake.
So only the minority of them are dangerous while the majority is harmless? They only attack if they think they are in danger? ... They brumate?
Yeah, you're completely wrong.It just seems to me that humans have a collective unconscious mindset to hate elves. They want to see them in squalor, enslaved, or dead and the elves have not done anything to them. Something is wrong with them and they have a mentality of sheep.
My point is in their inborn nature to hate anyone who's different but not all of them wants to kill elves.So only the minority of them are dangerous while the majority is harmless? They only attack if they think they are in danger? ... They brumate?
My point is in their inborn nature to hate anyone who's different but not all of them wants to kill elves.
Yeah....still completely untrue.
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