1596 réponses à ce sujet

[veeia]

I try not to apply realistic biology/genetics/ evolution to Dragon Age unless its an area they explicitly have talked about. It just is less frustrating if you accept whatever is there. I don't think the devs spend a lot of time considering that, so I'm not going to. (I do spend time thinking about other areas they probably don't consider as much though, so I'm not saying it's a fruitless endeavor! Just probably not one that you can expect to always be covered or make sense)

 

 

Speaking of PoC, the Elven Inquisitor should be a PoC because as a nomadic species that's constantly on the move around the forests, with no skin whitener cream, they would at the very least look tanned.

 

I am curious, how did your Elven Inquisitors react to the revelations in Temple of Mythal and in Trespasser ?

 

Mine just went:- "You know what ? Damn the Ancient Elves. Damn them, they have screwed us over long enough. It is time us modern "Tranquil" "Shemlen" Elves work together, move forward, adapt and live our lives on our own terms instead of glorifying the Evanuris and our inglorious past. We will reclaim the Vallaslin as a badge of pride, we will start making alliances with City Elves, we will be diplomatic with the other races and we will survive and endure, because we are Elves."

 

So yeah, they got pissed off and betrayed by the whole thing.

 

I've ran two Lavellans.

 

My first one was extremely culturally Dalish, but not particularly religious in that she was more about the ritual, history, and securing a future for the Dalish than the theology or the belief. She was more pragmatic, very results focused, and military minded. So to her, the revelations did not really bring about a crisis of faith or great anger, more concern about what that information would do to her people and if it would set back their cause. She was extremely mad at Solas though, and frustrated that she hadn't properly assessed him as a threat. I like playing her because I wanted to play a character who was invested in the Dalish without feeling lost, too angry, or foolish after all the revelations because she found value there beyond the "truth" of their beliefs.

 

My second one was a reactionary, angry contrarian who believed very strongly and romanced Solas. She hated living in her clan because she didn't fit it, and then when she went to the Inquisition, hated how everyone else talked about the Dalish. Then she was mad about what she discovered, but also didn't want to give Solas the pleasure of being right, so she told him to bugger off and angrily disbanded the Inquisition. She was not a happy character, lmao, but it was fun to play because she made such bad decisions and alienated so many people. She did end it with Sera in the Red Jennies, which is probably the best place for her to be, given her relative immaturity.

[Xilizhra]

I just believe they should be elves with diverse backgrounds and they represent the indigenous peoples of tribes like the Hopi Tribes, The Aboriginals who invented the Mystic Dreamtime, The Native Americans, The Hawaiian Tribes, and The Dogon Tribe from Mali. Because they believe in a community of being part with nature and respect the Mother Earth and the people and the Keeper of the Dalish Clan is a shaman that guides the tribe to spirituality and keepers of history.

Aren't you forgetting Jews? There's plenty of similar background there as well.

[Hellion Rex]

Spoiler

The Jews prospered from their survival of the holocaust and the Jewish faith is a religion, the PoC never recovered or prospered from their scars of racism. Like the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, The Jim Crow lynchings and horrible murders a d racial police killings of innocent African-Americans America is rampant to this day. And the Jews were never oppressed after the Holocaust ever since.

Mhmmmm...we never prospered at all.

Spoiler

[Steelcan]

Spoiler

The Jews prospered from their survival of the holocaust and the Jewish faith is a religion, the PoC never recovered or prospered from their scars of racism. Like the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, The Jim Crow lynchings and horrible murders a d racial police killings of innocent African-Americans America is rampant to this day. And the Jews were never oppressed after the Holocaust ever since.

Israeli Civil War?

The Fedayeen?

6 Day War?

The Egyptian Shadow War to reclaim Sinai?

Yom Kippur War?

 

Anti-Semitism on the rise across not just the Middle East but Europe as well.

 

Sure Israel isn't currently occupied and Jews aren't being slaughtered in the millions, but its not for lack of trying.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Mhmmmm...we never prospered at all.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Just because we have a president who was an African American in office doesn't mean that it would benefit us as a whole just because of one person. And he was selected by them not elected by the people but by Goldman-Sachs (https://prof77.wordp...ng-elena-kagan/) and we still have killings from police and the Ferguson Incident that made the U.N. telling Obama to fix this problem of this mess we have to endure and he did absolutely NOTHING about it. (http://www.ibtimes.c...rcement-1730614)

[Dean_the_Young]

Israeli Civil War?

The Fedayeen?

6 Day War?

The Egyptian Shadow War to reclaim Sinai?

Yom Kippur War?

 

Anti-Semitism on the rise across not just the Middle East but Europe as well.

 

Sure Israel isn't currently occupied and Jews aren't being slaughtered in the millions, but its not for lack of trying.

 

Clearly we aren't suitably oppressed enough.

[Qun00]

I'm not sure about "May Ghilan'nain guide your path" but perhaps that is more appropriate if you are just taking a journey rather than trying to track someone down.

Speaking of Ghilan'nain, I think she simply stands at the bottom of the Pantheon in every aspect whether it is importance, power or even the general coolness factor.

The only tale related to her is about that time when she got tricked by a hunter and then begged the gods for help. Real badass.

And what is she the goddess of? I've seen people say the Dalish may pray to her so they won't get lost, but the wiki only mentions that her name is invoked when one travels on an aravel. That's it.

Why would a Dalish elf even choose her vallaslin? Out of love for the halla? Because the wind feels nice when they're sailing on their landships?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Israeli Civil War?
The Fedayeen?
6 Day War?
The Egyptian Shadow War to reclaim Sinai?
Yom Kippur War?

Anti-Semitism on the rise across not just the Middle East but Europe as well.

Sure Israel isn't currently occupied and Jews aren't being slaughtered in the millions, but its not for lack of trying.

These are wars not racial discrimination systematic oppression against PoC like the elves have suffered from. See the difference now? Good! If you do give yourself a pat on the back!

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

http://ageofdragon.t...in-thedas-for-a

[Steelcan]

These are wars not racial discrimination systematic oppression against PoC like the elves have suffered from. See the difference now? Good! If you do give yourself a pat on the back!

And if the Israelis had lost them do you think they'd have been doing very well? Last I checked half the middle East still hasn't decided that the Holocaust was real, and a few others have made the destruction of Israel a stated objective.

[FemHawke FTW]

Aren't you forgetting Jews? There's plenty of similar background there as well.

I maybe remembering this wrong but wasn't the elvish diaspora in Thedas and the existence of alienages in major cities inspired by what happened to the Jewish people throughout western Europe during the Dark Ages?

[raging_monkey]

I maybe remembering this wrong but wasn't the elvish diaspora in Thedas and the existence of alienages in major cities inspired by what happened to the Jewish people throughout western Europe during the Dark Ages?

yup with a bit of Celtic history after they were invaded.

But honestly there's loose inspiration from a lot of places

[Nimlowyn]

I maybe remembering this wrong but wasn't the elvish diaspora in Thedas and the existence of alienages in major cities inspired by what happened to the Jewish people throughout western Europe during the Dark Ages?

That was the initial inspiration, yes. I do recall David Gaider in his Tumblr essentially saying not to treat them as allegory however, as they became their own thing (their religion, for one, is profoundly different). Man I miss reading his blog.

[The Ascendant]

How did the Forbidden Ones turn themselves into spirits/demons? 

According to the codex entry. Exile of the Forbidden Ones, they turned themselves into spirits/demons to escape some calamity. Did they foresee Solas sundering the world and made plans to survive it?

"For abandoning the People in their time of greatest need, for casting aside form to flee to where the Earth could not reach, we declare Xebenkeck and others of her ilk exiled from the lands of the Evanuris. Beware! Their familiarity with shape allows them to travel paths unaided. They may be bound, but only the protection of your gods will fully shield you from their malice. They are Forbidden from the Earth that is our right."

[Hellion Rex]

How did the Forbidden Ones turn themselves into spirits/demons?
According to the codex entry. Exile of the Forbidden Ones, they turned themselves into spirits/demons to escape some calamity. Did they foresee Solas sundering the world and made plans to survive it?
"For abandoning the People in their time of greatest need, for casting aside form to flee to where the Earth could not reach, we declare Xebenkeck and others of her ilk exiled from the lands of the Evanuris. Beware! Their familiarity with shape allows them to travel paths unaided. They may be bound, but only the protection of your gods will fully shield you from their malice. They are Forbidden from the Earth that is our right."

Doubt it was Solas. That codex seems to be prior to his rebellion. Perhaps it was the first war, the one that led to the deification of the Evanuris, and they were allies but left the People, and so they were officially banished when the Ev came to power.

Also, it mentioned Earth, capital E. Perhaps they feared the Titans.

[veeia]

That was the initial inspiration, yes. I do recall David Gaider in his Tumblr essentially saying not to treat them as allegory however, as they became their own thing (their religion, for one, is profoundly different). Man I miss reading his blog.

 

Me too. Twitter is great for a lot of things, but its a pity the devs & Gaider have mostly vacated places that supported more long form content.

[Sifr]

How did the Forbidden Ones turn themselves into spirits/demons? 

According to the codex entry. Exile of the Forbidden Ones, they turned themselves into spirits/demons to escape some calamity. Did they foresee Solas sundering the world and made plans to survive it?

"For abandoning the People in their time of greatest need, for casting aside form to flee to where the Earth could not reach, we declare Xebenkeck and others of her ilk exiled from the lands of the Evanuris. Beware! Their familiarity with shape allows them to travel paths unaided. They may be bound, but only the protection of your gods will fully shield you from their malice. They are Forbidden from the Earth that is our right."

 

It really depends on how closely linked Spirits and Ancient Elves are?

 

A lot of people seem to think that all Elves were once Spirits, based on a comment by Cole in Trepasser ("He did not want a body, but she asked him to come. He left a scar when she burned her off his face"), which seems to be referring to Solas and implies that he wasn't always an Elf.

 

Of course, the line could be limited to Solas himself, that if he was a Spirit that was embodied into Elven form, this wasn't true of the Elves overall. The Evanuris having godlike powers and abilities (even for Ancient Elves) could be because they were also Spirits who took Elven form to live among and protect the Elven people, as their seems to have been some kind of conflict that threatened them.

 

The other possibility that Spirits once constituted all life in Thedas and they could take or discard bodies at whim. All this changed when the Veil came down, so that everyone was mode-locked in Spirit or Mortal form and left trapped either on a physical (Thedas) or ethereal (The Fade) plane of existence. Eventually everyone forgot they might have ever been anything else, much like they forgot about the world prior to the Veil?

[kimgoold]

What are the origins of the Elves? I heard that they used to be spirits but decided to change into more corporeal forms. Any other suggestions or ideas?

 

It seems implied they were spirits, so were extremely powerful magically and immortal; but I wonder about the ancient elven slaves and under class of the Evanuris were they lesser spirits like wisps so less powerful than the Ruling class who may have come from Pride and Desire demons oops Choice Spirits.

 

Most of Trespasser seemed to be saying Solas was an enslaved spirit under Mythals control and made flesh, he freed himself and started to free others.

[kimgoold]

As a player of predominantly elven characters I was hoping to get a CE perspective on the whole Solas end the world plan;

My HoF (alive) Surana would have zero tolerance for the genocidal plan, my HoF Tabris would want more information as she knows nothing about her own people and culture; and not surprisingly my HoF Mahariel would be out for Solas blood -  she believes her peoples history that Solas/Fen'harel is a deceitful trickster god who only brings misfortune to those foolish enough to follow him. 

 

My Lavellan wants to convince Solas to stop but she will kill him if all else fails.

 

In DA4 I want a tevinter elven perspective (if I must have new protagonist)

 

And I may be in the minority but I would love all DA  characters (still living) to have input in the next game; the effects on Merrill, the HoF Dalish clan, the Inquisitors Dalish clan, Velanna and Seranni, etc.  (this is assuming Seranni is still Seranni and not the Architect in a new body).

 

Zevran and Fenris would also add a unique perspective.

[Hellion Rex]

It really depends on how closely linked Spirits and Ancient Elves are?

A lot of people seem to think that all Elves were once Spirits, based on a comment by Cole in Trepasser ("He did not want a body, but she asked him to come. He left a scar when she burned her off his face"), which seems to be referring to Solas and implies that he wasn't always an Elf.

Of course, the line could be limited to Solas himself, that if he was a Spirit that was embodied into Elven form, this wasn't true of the Elves overall. The Evanuris having godlike powers and abilities (even for Ancient Elves) could be because they were also Spirits who took Elven form to live among and protect the Elven people, as their seems to have been some kind of conflict that threatened them.

The other possibility that Spirits once constituted all life in Thedas and they could take or discard bodies at whim. All this changed when the Veil came down, so that everyone was mode-locked in Spirit or Mortal form and left trapped either on a physical (Thedas) or ethereal (The Fade) plane of existence. Eventually everyone forgot they might have ever been anything else, much like they forgot about the world prior to the Veil?

But Solas himself somewhat contradicts that theory when he tells of how the Evanuris came to power due to war.

[Hellion Rex]

At its base, it is possible that the Forbidden Ones were elves, but that's not necessarily so. All it proves is that they were able to shed their mortal shell to take on full incorporeal form and become these demons.

[Hellion Rex]

Magic has the power to shape reality. Cole himself said "worship makes you more". My own theory is that the Evanuris were indeed elves with strong magic, but they drew even more power from the collective belief in their divinity. I would say this is a strong theory because of how the world was mixed with the world of dreams back then. If enough people with magic (the elves as well as their slaves) believed in the godliness and divinity of their leaders, would that not shape the reality that was the Evanuris?

[Sifr]

But Solas himself somewhat contradicts that theory when he tells of how the Evanuris came to power due to war.

 

Aye, that's one of the problems with all these "Elves = Spirits" theories, as it doesn't really explain half the contradictions that seem to arise in the lore.

 

Having the explanation be that Cole only was referring to Solas as having been a Spirit who took a body, rather than the same being true of the Evanuris or all Elves, would probably be the most lore-friendly and require the least amount of handwaving to fit it all together.

 

It would also provide some intriguing parallels and new insight into Solas' friendship with Cole, since they'd be similar kinds of entities. Might further explain why Solas did not want Cole to become more human (falsely claiming it was impossible), to prevent his friend falling into the pitfalls and perils that he had experienced himself?

[Dai Grepher]

Magic has the power to shape reality. Cole himself said "worship makes you more". My own theory is that the Evanuris were indeed elves with strong magic, but they drew even more power from the collective belief in their divinity. I would say this is a strong theory because of how the world was mixed with the world of dreams back then. If enough people with magic (the elves as well as their slaves) believed in the godliness and divinity of their leaders, would that not shape the reality that was the Evanuris?

The Sacred Ashes dragon seemed to work the same way. The cult worshiped her, and she seemed to have some kind of intelligence. Maybe that's how the old gods came to be.

[Dai Grepher]

Aye, that's one of the problems with all these "Elves = Spirits" theories, as it doesn't really explain half the contradictions that seem to arise in the lore.
 
Having the explanation be that Cole only was referring to Solas as having been a Spirit who took a body, rather than the same being true of the Evanuris or all Elves, would probably be the most lore-friendly and require the least amount of handwaving to fit it all together.
 
It would also provide some intriguing parallels and new insight into Solas' friendship with Cole, since they'd be similar kinds of entities. Might further explain why Solas did not want Cole to become more human (falsely claiming it was impossible), to prevent his friend falling into the pitfalls and perils that he had experienced himself?

I thought the implication was that Solas was always an elf, but he wanted to shed his body and become a spirit that taught wisdom. He didn't want a body, meaning he wanted to become a spirit, not that he was a spirit who reluctantly entered a body.