1596 réponses à ce sujet

[IHaveReturned1999]

Lol, different stroke, different folks. The joys of having options in an RPG. I won't begrudge your choice as long as you extend the same courtesy to me.

And put some respeck on it!!!

[The Ascendant]

The Arlthvhen, big clan gathering, that happens every ten years, was that ever touched upon or what? You would think that a Dalish PC would mention it to the other Dalish he/she encountered. I think the one in 9:40 was near Halamshiral.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think he'd succeed against the Evanuris. I think he's underestimating them. They've had all this time to plot their revenge against him. Even if they've been prone and not able to actually work on their spellcraft in preparation for him, and they likely have, that level of spite is just not something you go up against easily. They'll act in ways he won't predict. Its basically guaranteed. If he goes against them alone, he's dead.

 

I agree, if only because it seems narratively unlikely they would introduce a threat like the Evanuris and then have them be neutralized without our help before they actually become any kind of a problem.

[IHaveReturned1999]

The reason the Dalish look down on city elves is that they stay in the cities being oppressed instead of going for independence as they do, however hard that might be. Contrary to the impression given in Masked Empire, the Dalish are welcoming to city elves that flee to them. It is not just done out of pity as Thelhen suggests or to keep numbers up, although I imagine that is a consideration, but because they do feel a kinship with them. They are keeping the traditions going and searching for bits of their old culture so they maintain the sense of elven identity and will have something to share with their city elf brethren when they finally have a homeland again. Even the city elves try and do their bit to maintain their culture with their tree and stories they can remember but it is much more difficult when you are under the noses of the Chantry. The reason the Dalish don't do more for the city elves is that they simply do not have the numbers and it is a daily battle for survival out in the wilds.

The elf merchant in DAO even says how his caravan was attacked (I think it was by human bandits but not sure), then the Dalish drove them off and came back to scavenge but when they saw the goods belonged to a city elf, they left them alone. There were also elves in the alienage telling stories of city elves running off to join the clans. Zevran ran off to join them and only went back to the Crows because he didn't like the squalor of living in the woods, not because the Dalish were unwilling to take him. It now turns out that his mother didn't return to her clan when her husband died because the Crows forced her into prostitution to pay off his debts, not because her clan wouldn't take her. Zathrian rescued Layana, who would seem to have been a city elf, and she finally rose to become his first.

The ancient elves do not recognise the modern elves are their People because to them they are mere shadows, just as Solas thinks they are not real or more like tranquil. The ancient ones, born before the Veil was raised, recognise something fundamentally different in the ones who came after. Even so, they are their descendants, and considering much of the time they have been asleep in the intervening years, the gap between them is not as great as they maintain. However, it would seem the best that modern elves can hope for from the ancient ones is being called "Da'len", with that sort of emphasis. This is what Felassan uses to both Briala and Mihris because to him they are "Little children". That is something at least, because he does actually recognise some sort of kinship with them. Then Fen'Harel killed him for it.

What do the Dalish expected from the city elves? As far as I'm concerned they have the same problem and the only way is to have unity and stand together to help each other out, and it's the Ancient Elves fault that the elves are in the position of being oppressed and powerless in the first place. Even Solas is stupid enough to not look past his ego that it was he who put up the Veil that causes the elves to lose everything, and all hell broke loose when the Imperium invaded them. They're are irresponsible so they project the blame on them to not face their responsibility. What a bunch of low down dirty mother***ker's.

[Xilizhra]

Lol, different stroke, different folks. The joys of having options in an RPG. I won't begrudge your choice as long as you extend the same courtesy to me.

Unfortunately, I can't. I don't see a way in which a plot that allows for Solas to be killed could be good.

[Gervaise]

The Dalish are prepared to help city elves out but they have to leave the city in order for them to do so.    In DAO it was made clear that city elves do not have freedom of movement even within the city, let alone between one alienage and another, so it would be extremely difficult for a group of Dalish to join up with them in the city unnoticed by the authorities.   Somehow Felassan gets away with it and so apparently did Marethari, but I would say they were extremely lucky, particularly Marethari considering the place was crawling with Templars and these were simply individuals.    A larger group would fall foul of the authorities because the humans are wary of letting the elves get organised.   There are potentially much larger numbers in the cities than among the Dalish but the city elves are not permitted to possess any weapon bigger than a knife.   This is why trying to raise an uprising to get better conditions in the established cities just isn't going to work.   It will simply end as a massacre, like it did in Halamshiral.  

 

In the Lavellan/Wycome war table mission the clan originally only get into close proximity with the city because events allowed it.   Then when danger threatens, the Keeper and the clan refused to abandon the city elves to take the brunt of reprisals by humans for what has occurred in the city.    People will say that clan Lavellan are the exception but their solidarity in the face of danger with the city elves does seem in keeping with the lore in DAO.   So that is a concrete example of the two sets of elves standing together and helping each other out.    This does have a good outcome in that the Keeper and the elders of the city elves are invited to sit on the city council.   Part of the reason it worked is that the corrupt ruler was killed and many of the nobles fled, leaving control of the city in the hands of the common people.   Also Wycome is the most easy going city in Thedas, being the revelry capital and much given over to enjoying themselves first and foremost.    I suspect the Chantry doesn't have a huge influence there.     I doubt it would be easy to establish such a good rapport between the races in somewhere like Tantervale, which are apparently strict adherers to Chantry law.  Then again, who in their right mind would want to settle there anyway?   Certainly not the Dalish, they know there would be trouble from the outset.

 

Where did you understand the last Arlathvhen was in 9:40.   I'd put it more at mid 30s, which would mean there was another one just coming up in the year following the events of Trespasser.   I certainly have assumed this timescale and my Lavellan is absolutely determined to attend and give them all the information he has discovered so it can be discussed and evaluated.   He is going to do his best to deter them from supporting Fen'Harel.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Dalish are prepared to help city elves out but they have to leave the city in order for them to do so. 

And abandon their culture and be forced to adopt the Dalish culture. They have to trade one master for another.

[MisterJB]

City elves can go and live anywhere they please in a human city.

It just doesn't end well for them because they are beaten/killed and their homes burned to the ground.

And, of course, nothing says you can't join a Dalish clan but people aren't usually eager to abandon their homes, carrying what little they can, to head off into the untamed forests to maybe find a Dalish clan that may or may not take them in.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Never said they were perfect and the writers should've wrote that better (And this is why it should be a multicultural writers and not just sexually diverse writers), the indigenous tribes that were led by shaman they seek and evaluate children who has the aptitude for spirituality so they take them and teach them how to be shaman. And just because one woman doesn't hate elves doesn't mean it'll grant immunity of humans for the hate crimes they commit against elves.

You mean they should have written it in a way that fits your perspective, right? 

 

No, but you said humanity as a whole is like that. Humanity as a whole consists of humans as individuals, so if there are individuals who aren't like that, then the whole is not like that.  

[IHaveReturned1999]

You mean they should have written it in a way that fits your perspective, right?

No, but you said humanity as a whole is like that. Humanity as a whole consists of humans as individuals, so if there are individuals who aren't like that, then the whole is not like that.

But it doesn't change the fact that humans did to the elves, and humans have the power to impact elves as a whole. Humans don't even care about the elves or how they feel and they want to maintain the systematic oppression against them.

[Gervaise]

The point I was making is that the Dalish can't simply march into a human city and start throwing their weight about.   That is why the city elves have to come to them. 

What culture are the city elves abandoning exactly to join the Dalish?  The culture where they are constantly oppressed and kept down by the rest of the community, are given the most menial jobs and insulting names?  Where you are not permitted to defend yourself and it is against the law for anyone else to do so on your behalf.  That doesn't seem much of a loss.

 

The city elves still remember some of their ancient traditions, that is why they have the tree, to remind them of Arlathan.   They have the same traditions of loyalty to family and an elder who guides the community.   The city elves have arranged marriages whereas the Dalish allow you to choose, so actually that is a better arrangement than they would currently have.   The Dalish would not beat them or rape them or hunt them for training purposes as their current masters do.    They would expect them to respect their gods but to be honest I doubt city elves are particularly devout Andrastrians.  If they are then it is likely they wouldn't want to join the Dalish.   The Dalish do respect Andraste, just not the Chantry that claims to act in her name.   

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But it doesn't change the fact that humans did to the elves, and humans have the power to impact elves as a whole. Humans don't even care about the elves or how they feel and they want to maintain the systematic oppression against them.

Many humans aren't as you say. I'm not denying that many humans are as you say as well, but not all of them are so you should use the appropriate vocabulary. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The point I was making is that the Dalish can't simply march into a human city and start throwing their weight about.   That is why the city elves have to come to them. 

What culture are the city elves abandoning exactly to join the Dalish?  The culture where they are constantly oppressed and kept down by the rest of the community, are given the most menial jobs and insulting names?  Where you are not permitted to defend yourself and it is against the law for anyone else to do so on your behalf.  That doesn't seem much of a loss.

The City Elves have a lot more culture than that. Their culture is a mixture between elven culture and human culture, which has formed its own culture.

 

The city elves still remember some of their ancient traditions, that is why they have the tree, to remind them of Arlathan.   They have the same traditions of loyalty to family and an elder who guides the community.   The city elves have arranged marriages whereas the Dalish allow you to choose, so actually that is a better arrangement than they would currently have.   The Dalish would not beat them or rape them or hunt them for training purposes as their current masters do.    They would expect them to respect their gods but to be honest I doubt city elves are particularly devout Andrastrians.  If they are then it is likely they wouldn't want to join the Dalish.   The Dalish do respect Andraste, just not the Chantry that claims to act in her name.   

Some clans don't. Other clans kill humans and city elves on sight, seeing the latter as traitors to their race and no different than humans. 

As for religion, I disagree about them not being devout Andrastians. And regardless of devoutness, the Dalish would not allow them to join unless they abandon that and follow the Elven Pantheon. How is that any different than what happened to the Dales when they lost the war, the thing that the Dalish despise? They are nothing but hypocrites. 

[IHaveReturned1999]

Many humans aren't as you say. I'm not denying that many humans are as you say as well, but not all of them are so you should use the appropriate vocabulary.

Or you want me to say that suits you because you simply don't agree.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Or you want me to say that suits you because you simply don't agree.

No, I want you to say that because it is objectively accurate. 

[IHaveReturned1999]

No, I want you to say that because it is objectively accurate.

Its the same thing.

[Hellion Rex]

Unfortunately, I can't. I don't see a way in which a plot that allows for Solas to be killed could be good.

Ummm, protecting the world from a genocidal maniac isn't good? 

[Amburu]

Solas is so not going to be our worst problem #evanuris #still2archdemons #sourceoftheblight #mythalisn'tdoneyet #andthentitans #completedoom

[Hellion Rex]

Solas is so not going to be our worst problem #evanuris #still2archdemons #sourceoftheblight #mythalisn'tdoneyet #andthentitans #completedoom

Perhaps not. But he's the only major problem that is active at this moment.

[Amburu]

Indeed but Imo if we kill him we lose a huge ally against whatever comes next. He can turn things to stone with his eyes now, we can't really afford losing this, given what we'll have to face

Except if the writers get us another overpowered ancient semigod lol

[Steelcan]

Ummm, protecting the world from a genocidal maniac isn't good? 

well he's a genocidal maniac who is "helping" a chosen group of Xil's.  He could found his own Einsatzgruppen and she'd find a way to spin it.

[Steelcan]

Indeed but Imo if we kill him we lose a huge ally against whatever comes next. He can turn things to stone with his eyes now, we can't really afford losing this, given what we'll have to face

Except if the writers get us another overpowered ancient semigod lol

I'm pretty sure that turning Qunari to stone isn't the only way to kill them.

[Xilizhra]

Ummm, protecting the world from a genocidal maniac isn't good? 

You misunderstand. Solas being a genocidal maniac, period, is a bad plot.

[Ghost Gal]

Many humans aren't as you say. I'm not denying that many humans are as you say as well, but not all of them are so you should use the appropriate vocabulary. 

 

Fancy that, many elves aren't as you say.

[Iakus]

Solas is so not going to be our worst problem #evanuris #still2archdemons #sourceoftheblight #mythalisn'tdoneyet #andthentitans #completedoom

Don't forget #qunariinvasionpart2