106 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

Going by past history, a sycophant is a must.

 

*snip*

 

Follow these simple steps,without actually describing them, and you to can write a fan favorite character that will have people with unrealistic expectations wishing they had a real-life sycophant friend and writing dozens of threads wishing they could ****** to you character as a romance!

 

This post is both unfair and inaccurate - there is a place for a good, well written, mature, smart "best friend" (or not) characters, with a good chance of them becoming a fan favorite (I'm trying to think back, and I think that there have been quite a few characters - not necessarily in the artificial "best friend" position - that can be described as "fan favorites" in previous Bio games, and many of them are very different from your description - I.e. Morrigan, The Glorious Strategist, etc.).

 

There is really no need for the dismissive attitude and edgelord tones.

 

A character like Vivienne for example was not widely disliked because she wasn't a sycophant, but because she was a hypocritical biatch with acidic

personality and a far too high opinion of herself. Her only somewhat likeable quality is her wittiness, which in itself left something to be desired at times.

Most people either found her funny, or disgusting. Naturally she is a divisive character, not a fan favorite.

[Dean_the_Young]

This post is both unfair and inaccurate - there is a place for a good, well written, mature, smart "best friend" (or not) characters, with a good chance of them becoming a fan favorite (I'm trying to think back, and I think that there have been quite a few characters - not necessarily in the artificial "best friend" position - that can be described as "fan favorites" in previous Bio games, and many of them are very different from your description - I.e. Morrigan, The Glorious Strategist, etc.).

 

There is really no need for the dismissive attitude and edgelord tones.

 

A character like Vivienne for example was not widely disliked because she wasn't a sycophant, but because she was a hypocritical biatch with acidic

personality and a far too high opinion of herself. Her only somewhat likeable quality is her wittiness, which in itself left something to be desired at times.

Most people either found her funny, or disgusting. Naturally she is a divisive character, not a fan favorite.

 

You seem to be arguing against something I haven't suggested. Why you're bringing up Vivienne, I'm not sure at all. I'm not arguing that characters are hated because they aren't sycophants. And I'm not arguing players only consider themselves best friends with characters who are sycophants. And I would even agree there is a place for good, well written, mature, smart "best friend" characters who aren't sycophants.

 

I just disagree that Bioware games are the place to find them, because as Bioware has written 'canon friend' characters- as in, characters who are supposed to be best friends and buds to all players regardless of ideology- it's often because they are borderline (or beyond) sycophants.

 

Dragon Age is much superior to Mass Effect in this respect, because Dragon Age generally avoided best friend characters. The closest Bioware came to a canon best friend was Varric, who admittedly is the teller of the tale in DA2. Except Hawke never really had to get along with Varric, and a rivalry route had Varric being passive aggressive rather than adulation. Varric cared and was affected, as we can see in DAI, but friendship was never necessarily a thing.

 

Mass Effect, though, frequently engaged in Shepard adoration that easily boardered on the sycophantic, with characters committing intellectual backflips to be agreeably aligned with Shepard no matter what Shepard did. Few characters were as consistently pandering to the players as Garrus. (Tali was a second, but at least she had the excuse of crushing and hero-worship.)

[Quarian Master Race]

^Tali panders no matter what? Funny,  I thought her telling me in no uncertain terms to stop talking to her and go **** myself when I ratted out her father was a little hostile. Now that you mention it, so was nearly decapitating Legion and blowing a new hole in the ceiling of the AI core when I let it steal her classified data.

 

I'll agree its still a problem that she doesn't do what a real person would in such situations (i.e. leave the group), but no one in theses games do, not even borderline psychos like Zaeed when we ruin his hunt for Vido (hell, we can even keep his loyalty). Or, at least they can't "leave" unless it's in a bodybag (see Wrex). They dont seem to write the ME games like the DA games with characters that leave, though this equally has advantages if the characters are going to be plot relevant (e.g. Morrigan/Alistair suddenly reappearing after storming out/being told to get lost because plot is even more dumb).

 

Garrus, ME3 Liara, Jacob and EDI (which I can treat like a lifeless toaster with not only no protest, but be thanked for doing so) I can sort of see your point here, but not really any other characters. I still wouldn't call the first three sycophants so much as just really passive.

[straykat]

Yeah, I'm not really the biggest Tali fan, but I wouldn't say that about her. It kind of confuses me when some say she's a "pet" type of character. She stands her own ground. She'll even die over it, if she has to. I only think Weekes favored her over the other characters he had to write.

[Killroy]

By the time we got to ME3 I felt BioWare jumped the shark with the whole "Garrus is your bro" thing. It was way too fanservicey and cringey for my tastes. And Varric felt like such a tryhard in DAI because they were doing their damnedest to make him Dragon Age's Garrus. At this point I would prefer they not try to force a "bro" character on us and let it happen naturally. But they're so up their own asses with the companions and providing fanservice these days I'll bet there will be a tryhard bro character who makes 4th-wall-breaking callbacks to Garrus. 

 

"Sorry, Pathfinder, no time to chat. I've got some... calibrations to work on."

"Hey, Pathfinder, can you hand me my calibrator? I can't... reach it, and you're so much more... flexible."

[ZipZap2000]

By the time we got to ME3 I felt BioWare jumped the shark with the whole "Garrus is your bro" thing. It was way too fanservicey and cringey for my tastes. And Varric felt like such a tryhard in DAI because they were doing their damnedest to make him Dragon Age's Garrus. At this point I would prefer they not try to force a "bro" character on us and let it happen naturally. But they're so up their own asses with the companions and providing fanservice these days I'll bet there will be a tryhard bro character who makes 4th-wall-breaking callbacks to Garrus.

"Sorry, Pathfinder, no time to chat. I've got some... calibrations to work on."
"Hey, Pathfinder, can you hand me my calibrator? I can't... reach it, and you're so much more... flexible."

This.

All of this.

I started in ME2 the way he's presented is as if to say he's a key character, who played a crucial role in Shepards character development. When I played ME I found out it was the opposite.

Varric. If there is a way to let Cassandra rip him to shreds I want to know about it so I can make a new Squiz.

[straykat]

I liked him in ME2. He had a few lines and then just kept to himself, "calibrating". Same with ME1.. he's cool and introverted.

 

Jon Dombrow wrote ME3. And from what I heard, he was just a fan before ME2. He was like everyone else.. and I think he probably brought some of that when writing Garrus in ME3. He also wrote Wrex in ME3 and he's different too.

[ZipZap2000]

I liked him in ME2. He had a few lines and then just kept to himself, "calibrating". Same with ME1.. he's cool and introverted.

Jon Dombrow wrote ME3. And from what I heard, he was just a fan before ME2. He was like everyone else.. and I think he probably brought some of that when writing Garrus in ME3. He also wrote Wrex in ME3 and he's different too.

I have issues with ME3 Wrex. Grunt is clearly going to kick that guys ass one day and lead the horde to glory.

[AlanC9]

What issues?

[straykat]

Probably the bro thing, and being a chatty cathy.

[ZipZap2000]

What issues?

He's suddenly become jovial and jolly. No brooding, he's actually smiling and not in a "Boiled Salarian for lunch" kinda way. This guy is rolling around telling jokes and making kissy faces at Bakara.

Edit: The only way to get the real Wrex back is to sabotage the Genophage and let C-Sec kill him.

[Han Shot First]

A fearsome German Shepherd



Go for the ankles, Boo!

[J. Finley]

I know Bioware didn't write him but I'd love a character like Atton from KotOR 2. Can be your best friend while talking smack to you the whole way.

[goishen]

My guess is that they'll have no more call backs in this game than they did in the entire trilogy with Baldour's Gate.

[Khrystyn]

Well, say what you will about Garrus, but the best-buddy scene at the top of the Presidium is a really good example of doing something special with your friend.

 

 

 

I say, each NPC should have available a best-buddy scene, and each is different from the others (not the same scene 8 identical ways).

[Killroy]

Well, say what you will about Garrus, but the best-buddy scene at the top of the Presidium is a really good example of doing something special with your friend.

 
Too forced. When did Garrus ever relax and screw around? It was out of character. They dove headfirst into fanservice territory with ME3 and I ****ing hate it. The Citadel DLC makes me angry.
 

I say, each NPC should have available a best-buddy scene, and each is different from the others (not the same scene 8 identical ways).

Every single NPC should be interested in bonding experiences with the PC? Why? I don't even want a bunch of one-on-one bonding experiences with my actual friends. And I certainly didn't want them with my fellow Airmen when I was in the service. Blech.
 

Another story line I'd like to have is to allow for the potential LI to be your best friend, even though you don't want to be in love with them. You can still pal around with them, hear/ask for their advice, etc.

Why can't the LI be both? My girlfriend is my best friend.

[Robert Cousland]

I want a Krogan best friend.

[themikefest]

Well, say what you will about Garrus, but the best-buddy scene at the top of the Presidium is a really good example of doing something special with your friend.

 Too bad there wasn't a renegade interrupt to push the turian into the water.

[goishen]

You could say that Tali getting drunk on the ship (the whole "Emergency induction port") was a bonding experience.   But not all that cut-sceney.  I dunno, I tend to think they treated them both the same, but not in equal measure.  

[EpicNewb]

I want a Krogan best friend.

Yes, I'm going to bring Drack Krogan everywhere with me.

 

He'll be built to complement my Vanguard skills.

[Squish]

Snip. 

 

"Sorry, Pathfinder, no time to chat. I've got some... calibrations to work on."

"Hey, Pathfinder, can you hand me my calibrator? I can't... reach it, and you're so much more... flexible."

Nooooo...Please, no D;

[SagaX]

You CANT create a best friend, because everyone has different likings and preference. People would HATE if Bioware forces them to accept ONE character as best friend, because some's best friend may be other's morons.

 

All companion character have to have their unique personality, so people can CHOOSE which ones they would like as favorites or most hated ones,

[ZipZap2000]

You could say that Tali getting drunk on the ship (the whole "Emergency induction port") was a bonding experience. But not all that cut-sceney. I dunno, I tend to think they treated them both the same, but not in equal measure.

Not only could she probably kick his ass. But I chose her for most Sheps buddy.

No, Shepard without Vakarian.

Your not coming Garrus I'm taking Tali and Liara.

Because I cant think of anyone else I'd rather do this with.

Except maybe Samara and Grunt.

I love you Grunt.

You to, Wrex.

Shepard.

Wrex.

Shepard.

We will remember Shepard.

No you won't.

Commander you wouldn't?

I'm not going to be second guessed on my own ship, by my own ship.

*Picks destroy*

[EpicNewb]

You CANT create a best friend, because everyone has different likings and preference. People would HATE if Bioware forces them to accept ONE character as best friend, because some's best friend may be other's morons.

 

All companion character have to have their unique personality, so people can CHOOSE which ones they would like as favorites or most hated ones,

The guy we're playing as has his own preferences, so certain types qualify to be his bestie.

 

We played as Shepard not ourselves.

[Seraphim24]

I actually found Vivienne to be super consistent and kind of hyper-pacific in many ways... if you get past the "Top Knight Enchanter" bit and sheen she's really kind of super nice. 

 

It's kind of like how people keep taking Solas to be this super nice, consistent, pacific character when in fact he's a total psycho-socio-path.