1158 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

I don't think my world will go boom. At least I hope.


I feel like I'm fighting different threats at the same time... and trying to beat them at their own game. I want to provide more hope for elves (which kind of gets in both Solas' way or in the way of Qunari), I want mages with less restrictions, but still acknowledge that there's a place for do-gooders and "Order" like the Inquisition/Seekers. If I can make an attractive alternative to Solas, the Qunari, and Vivienne, then I've thwarted them. And possibly the threat of the world going "boom".

but... The boom... Everybody like explosions lol.

But I activly make my worldstates "unstable" but still "good"( borderlines radial extremist like Andres to be accurate).

I've been thinking what if then world needs the boom... What if synthesis solas needs to happen to some extent

[straykat]

but... The boom... Everybody like explosions lol.

But I activly make my worldstates "unstable" but still "good"( borderlines radial extremist like Andres to be accurate).

I've been thinking what if then world needs the boom... What if synthesis solas needs to happen to some extent

 

I think the world gets enough instability just through politics and power... and looking at people funny.

 

I'd rather get rid of this elven and mage crap for good. There are better things to war over.

[Beerfish]

It is a failing in the series for sure but this conflict comes down to good people vs bad people rather than mages vs templars.

[Lord of War]

If they're going to be so fundamentally different, why preserve them at all? The Templar Order has been a symbol of authoritarian corruption for centuries. It's death is a better herald of a new age than anything else could be.

[raging_monkey]

I think the world gets enough instability just through politics and power... and looking at people funny.

I'd rather get rid of this elven and mage crap for good. There are better things to war over.

like land and boobs lol.

I really want the magical acolapse... What better way to say "it's real and edgy and hardcore" then to say you amount to nothing no less then nothing you are nothing but poo, sludge like poo. Be another hawke

Disclaimer joke

[straykat]

If they're going to be so fundamentally different, why preserve them at all? The Templar Order has been a symbol of authoritarian corruption for centuries. It's death is a better herald of a new age than anything else could be.

 

I'm not preserving the symbol. I don't care about it.

 

I'm only trying to acknowledge the people who have good intentions..and trying to put them to better use.. This is the Bulk of the Inquisition already... all of those people in the game are there to do just that. To "do good". And I think there are Templars like that too... they just need the push to it.

 

I want them all to be like Jules in Pulp Fiction: "Walking the Earth...getting into adventures and ****"

 

I can easily side with the Mages as well. No problem with me. I'd do it on a female Quizzy, I guess. I just reverse things a bit on male gender.

[Lord of War]

Well, the rebel Templars at the Therinfold had an intention: "the Chantry won't let us be unrestrained butchers anymore! Wah!" And their ability to close the Breach is entirely speculative. And the situation at Redcliffe seems much, much more dire and in need of the Inquisition.

 

(And Red Templars are way more fun to fight than Venatori)

[straykat]

Well, the rebel Templars at the Therinfold had an intention: "the Chantry won't let us be unrestrained butchers anymore! Wah!" And their ability to close the Breach is entirely speculative. And the situation at Redcliffe seems much, much more dire and in need of the Inquisition.

 

(And Red Templars are way more fun to fight than Venatori)

 

That I can agree with.. the narrative flows better for Redcliffe.

 

Although I find the mages there are kind of pathetic. That's my rationale for writing them off. That was my original rationale, when I first played at least.

[Hellion Rex]

Meh, Champions of the Just was the better narrative, for me. Envy demon seems much more interesting than time magic.

[straykat]

Meh, Champions of the Just was the better narrative, for me. Envy demon seems much more interesting than time magic.

 

No, I didn't mean the quests themselves. I meant within the whole story... Like yeah, it's probably the natural choice to save the town from a Magister. Even the way Cass/Cullen/Leli talk in the prequest give it a sense of urgency.

[raging_monkey]

I think both quests for the narrative

[Hellion Rex]

No, I didn't mean the quests themselves. I meant within the whole story... Like yeah, it's probably the natural choice to save the town from a Magister. Even the way Cass/Cullen/Leli talk in the prequest give it a sense of urgency.

Perhaps. In the context of the greater narrative, I find their premise equally compelling though. After watching seeing a Cleric get punched, it makes you wonder what is going on with the Templars. I guess it's a question of which leads a person wants to follow. I don't think it's necessarily fair to call the mage route a "natural choice", since that's a rather subjective claim.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I'm wondering, just what is your opinion of the fact that the trespasser epilogue with Divine Leliana where you sided with templars pretty much says that literally every circle mage that wasn't part of the inquisition is DEAD

[straykat]

Perhaps. In the context of the greater narrative, I find their premise equally compelling though. After watching seeing a Cleric get punched, it makes you wonder what is going on with the Templars. I guess it's a question of which leads a person wants to follow. I don't think it's necessarily fair to call the mage route a "natural choice", since that's a rather subjective claim.

 

That's a good point about Val Royeaux.. Lambert was a pretty disturbing character to me even then. Not sure what it is. It makes me curious and uncomfortable.

 

I thought I was being fairly objective though. Here I am trying to defend the Templar side, but I was willing to acknowledge the mage quest at the same time.

[straykat]

I'm wondering, just what is your opinion of the fact that the trespasser epilogue with Divine Leliana where you sided with templars pretty much says that literally every circle mage that wasn't part of the inquisition is DEAD

 

I've never played Trespasser. That sucks though.

 

Here's hoping I had more mages in the Inquisition than I saw.

 

As for the others who died, that's their own fault. And bioware had to make them extra stupid, by having some at Redcliffe acknowledging how screwed up Alexius was.... but they insisted on staying anyways. I would have happily recruited those people if i could (without fully doing the quest, I mean). All I got was a tranquil.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Masses are easily to manipulate anyway, but the people behind this manipulation were the noble mages. Not to mention mages of the south had nothing to do with that invasion. In fact Tevinter attacked and created hostility between mages and mundanes but it was not Tevinter who paid the price, it was southern mages, who are still paying that price. 

 

On another related note to this thread, the old circles are gone for good in all of the endings, no matter who becomes divine. We have college if Leliana becomes divine. We either have the bright hand or a much free circle if Cassandra becomes divine (depends on who you side with). And we have a circle fully in control of mages if Vivienne becomes divine, in which case Templars become nothing much different than Templars in Tevinter, glorified watchdogs.

 

So in a sense Templars get the boot on 2/3 of the endings. Even in Cassandra's case they are only able to keep their old power and prestige if you actually side with Templars, since if you side with mages they create the bright hand which is not so different than college aka Templar free.

 

My point is it was obvious the game would lead us to a state where mages have better lives no matter what, however the scale of this "better" is in player's hand. But there is no option to bring the old circles back and definitely no option to make more restrictions on their lives.

Actually, Cass' version of the bright hand stops existing. If you had the bright hand, the trespasser epilogues reveal that when the Inquisition stopped being powerful, the bright hand lost its main supporter which means that Vivienne was allowed to literally do everything in her power to silence the bright hand. The mages were fed up that Vivienne was doing everything to silence dissent that they decide to straight up leave the circle and form the college to rebel against Vivienne.

 

 

Once again, Vivienne shows her true colors and ruins everything.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm wondering, just what is your opinion of the fact that the trespasser epilogue with Divine Leliana where you sided with templars pretty much says that literally every circle mage that wasn't part of the inquisition is DEAD

Can you be more specific please? Can you find me a picture of the slide perhaps? I haven't run a Divine Leliana playthrough ever so I don't know what in the world you are referring to.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I've never played Trespasser. That sucks though.

 

Here's hoping I had more mages in the Inquisition than I saw.

 

As for the others who died, that's their own fault. And bioware had to make them extra stupid, by having some at Redcliffe acknowledging how screwed up Alexius was.... but they insisted on staying anyways. I would have happily recruited those people if i could (without fully doing the quest, I mean). All I got was a tranquil.

If the mages just joined up with you upon asking, there wouldn't be a quest would there? There would also be literally no  reason to get the templars if the mages just joined you upon asking.

 

This is the same thing like Orsino going crazy if you sided with the mages just because Bioware needed another boss. 

[Lord of War]

I've never played Trespasser. That sucks though.

 

Here's hoping I had more mages in the Inquisition than I saw.

 

As for the others who died, that's their own fault. And bioware had to make them extra stupid, by having some at Redcliffe acknowledging how screwed up Alexius was.... but they insisted on staying anyways. I would have happily recruited those people if i could (without fully doing the quest, I mean). All I got was a tranquil.

 

You know that when some Circles heard about the independence vote, they were immediately annulled, yes?

[straykat]

If the mages just joined up with you upon asking, there wouldn't be a quest would there? There would also be literally no  reason to get the templars if the mages just joined you upon asking.

 

This is the same thing like Orsino going crazy if you sided with the mages just because Bioware needed another boss. 

 

I didn't say "THE" mages. I meant those specific mages. Like not one of them even got a little recruit option like the Tranquil that joins you. They put loyalty above everything. Which is their own fault. I'm not going to cry about it.

[straykat]

You know that when some Circles heard about the independence vote, they were immediately annulled, yes?

 

"Heard"? Just hearing invites execution now?

 

I like the mages, but come on. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

"Heard"? Just hearing invites execution now?

 

I like the mages, but come on. 

That's actually not a lie. Read Asunder and WOT. They pretty much says that in some circles, the templars found out about the revolt in the White Spire before the mages did and decided to kill the mages rather than let them escape.

[Hellion Rex]

You know that when some Circles heard about the independence vote, they were immediately annulled, yes?

Not that I agree, but it didn't surprise me. Those annulments happened after the fight had broken out at White Spire, and it didn't surprise me that some Templars wanted to get the jump on mages, particularly if they wanted to force their way out of the Circles.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Since people are discussing whether templar or mages make more narrative sense, here's my two cents:

 

 

You can feel that way but the game quite blatantly makes going to the mages a priority. Let's start off with why:

 

 

When you first get to Val Royeaux, the templars essentially tell you that you can go to hell and that they are their own power. Heck, Lucius straight up calls the templars who joined the Inquisition TRAITORS, so it's made blatantly clear the Templars want nothing to do with you. On the other hand, Fiona politely comes to you at great risk to herself and invites you to discuss a potential alliance. If you aren't a rampant mage-hater, there is literally no reason not to at least go to Redcliffe and hear the mages out.

 

Afterwards, you find out about the time rifts. After that, you find out that a bunch of Tevinters for some reason came all the way to Redcliffe to get the mages. Fiona not knowing about you should raise some concern. Not going to the church afterwards is the only way to justifiably consider going to the templars. If you do go, you learn about the Venatori, a group who is obsessed with you and is probably the closest thing you've got so far to discovering just who exactly caused the Breach, not to mention Dorian's warning how the time rifts are going to continue to expand and go farther. That is pretty much an immediate reason to deal with the mages.

 

Now, you've basically got a hostile enemy occupying territory practically next door to you with time magic that is starting to expand and are the primary suspects in finding the culprits who started the Breach. Before you suggest "lets get the Templars", your advisors straight up tell you that won't work as the Venatori are mobilizing for war and by the time you get the Templars, the mages will be long gone, plus your advisors straight up telling you actually assaulting Redcliffe Castle even with Templars would be seen as an act of war with Ferelden so that's out of the picture. So now you've got a hostile foreign power mobilizing for war who potentially caused the Breach that is right next door and will take the mages away from you if you try to get the Templars. That alone should be reason enough for why you should deal with the mages ASAP.

 

Furthermore, literally nothing indicates you'll lose the Templars if you help out the mages first, plus the plan to get the Templars involves essentially threatening them to help you. Something tells me the Templars wouldn't be too happy to help you when you threaten them into helping you.

 

Plus, finding out Cory's plans makes a lot more sense if you sided with the mages because they already happened but meanwhile the only reason you know about Cory's plans with  the templars is by finding papers the Envy demon left lying about and Envy gloating about the demon army. Sorry, but the mage method makes a lot more sense.

 

Furthermore, having to recruit Cole TWICE is just plain ridiculous. It makes sense having to recruit him if you sided with the mages but zero if you already recruited him after siding with the templars. It makes sense everyone is suspicious if he first came during the attack on Haven but little if he's already been around for a while after siding with the Templars. Plus, the interactions with the dying Roderick make more sense if Cole is the one with him rather than Dorian. 

 

Now lets talk about the Red Templars: 

 

If you sided with the templars, HOW IS THERE AN ARMY OF RED TEMPLARS STILL AROUND? It makes sense that the Venatori are still around if you sided with the mages because a majority of them are from Tevinter but it makes zero sense for the Red Templars to have a large presence if you helped the Red Templars. For starters, you prevented them from bolstering their army with the entire Templar order which should drastically reduce their numbers. Furthermore, you killed a lot of red templars while recruiting the mages so there should be even less. That brings up the question of how are the red templars still a fighting force if you sided with the templars? They are apparently large enough to stand up to the Orlesian army during WPHW despite that making no sense if you sided with the templars yet makes complete sense if you sided with the mages.

 

Furthermore, the Templars stop being relevant if Barris dies or you conscript them. There is no redemption arc in that case. Plus, the Templars get absolutely no mention in Trespasser apart from their rebellion against Divine Vivienne.

 

 

All things considered, the game blatantly wants you to go towards the mages. 

 

[straykat]

That's actually not a lie. Read Asunder and WOT. They pretty much says that in some circles, the templars found out about the revolt in the White Spire before the mages did and decided to kill the mages rather than let them escape.

 

I have read those. I must've ignored the stupidity...

 

But fair enough.

 

I have no problem with the mage rebellion. Just to be clear. I'm talking about Redcliffe specifically. They sabotaged themselves. Some were even smug about it... like the Free Marches chick.