1158 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Besides, the Templars signed up for it. The mages didn't.

 

What, the mages have a right to attack the Templars but not the other way around?
 

[Lord of War]

Yes. As long as the Templars are oppressors, as long as the hold the mages prisoner in the Circles, they're fair game. 

 

Sic semper tyrannis

[straykat]

Yes. As long as the Templars are oppressors, as long as the hold the mages prisoner in the Circles, they're fair game. 

 

Sic semper tyrannis

 

I can't exactly disagree with that..

 

But do you see why I'm annoyed by Redcliffe? They're prisoners.....again. And for all the talk of freedom, the ones I mention can't even think for themselves. 

 

I don't know whether to be annoyed at the characters or the writers.

[straykat]

Holy crap..... I'm thinking like Morrigan actually.

 

And I hate Morrigan

[Lord of War]

It's understandable, yeah. I'm pretty disappointed with what they did with the rebellion myself, honestly. All the plotlines from the novels were like that, weirdly inserted and under-explained. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

I can't exactly disagree with that..

 

But do you see why I'm annoyed by Redcliffe? They're prisoners.....again. And for all the talk of freedom, the ones I mention can't even think for themselves. 

 

I don't know whether to be annoyed at the characters or the writers.

I'm more inclined to blame the writers considering Gaider said he was annoyed that so many people sided with the mages in DA2 (Seriously? Was he really so surprised that  more people weren't willing to support the clearly insane bigot murder an entire group of people for something they didn't do? Especially if their sister was in that same circle?)

 

It's pretty obvious the writers wanted to make the templars look better and the mages worse so more people are inclined to help the templars, but judging by polls and what makes narrative sense, they still failed

[Hellion Rex]

Yes. As long as the Templars are oppressors, as long as the hold the mages prisoner in the Circles, they're fair game. 

 

Sic semper tyrannis

Wow. 

[straykat]

Wow. 

 

It's really not that extreme. Mages are only slightly better off than zoo animals.

 

At best, they're like people who are perpetually treated like children...while everyone else is the parent. This is something the average adult would find intolerable... like punching the walls, screaming into pillows type of intolerable. Do you understand what it's like to feel powerless and have people hounding your ass all the time? Most of us might, as kids... but it's unthinkable as adults. And this is basically the reality of the mage.

 

I'm only surprised it took them this long to fight back.

[Hellion Rex]

It's really not that extreme. Mages are only slightly better off than zoo animals.

 

At best, they're like people who are perpetually treated like children...while everyone else is the parent. This is something the average adult would find intolerable... like punching the walls, screaming into pillows type of intolerable. Do you understand what it's like to feel powerless and have people hounding your ass all the time? Most of us might, as kids... but it's unthinkable as adults. And this is basically the reality of the mage.

 

I'm only surprised it took them this long to fight back.

Doesn't matter. The situations aren't comparable in the least. Mages can shape reality on a whim, something we can't even conceptualize. I'm not arguing that the old system sucked, cause it did. But magic potentially has catastrophic consequences, no matter how much belief you have in these people. A mage can lose control, turn to blood magic, or even be possessed and then where will be? Innocent lives lost and even greater fear of magic than we've already got. 

 

And what did fighting back get us? The Ferelden countryside is up in flames around Redcliffe and the leader of rebel mages shacking up with a Magister.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Doesn't matter. The situations aren't comparable in the least. Mages can shape reality on a whim, something we can't even conceptualize. I'm not arguing that the old system sucked, cause it did. But magic potentially has catastrophic consequences, no matter how much belief you have in these people. A mage can lose control, turn to blood magic, or even be possessed and then where will be? Innocent lives lost and even greater fear of magic than we've already got.

And what did fighting back get us? The Ferelden countryside is up in flames around Redcliffe and the leader of rebel mages shacking up with a Magister.

Did you forget how mages get more freedoms or even the abolishment of the circle system( until Viv ruins everything) in the endings?

[MisterJB]

Yes. As long as the Templars are oppressors, as long as the hold the mages prisoner in the Circles, they're fair game. 

 

Sic semper tyrannis

So, people who fit into an arbitrary definition to be determined by you deserve to be killed on sight.

 

Ok, but then don't be surprised when people fight back against the mages.

[MisterJB]

It's really not that extreme. Mages are only slightly better off than zoo animals.

They live in extremely wealthy institutions housed in palaces.

"Opressed", zoo animals" oooh the pain.

 

 

Do you understand what it's like to feel powerless and have people hounding your ass all the time?

I assume you have seen a trial in Thedas, right? The Lord has the final say, there is no jury of peers, no laywers, etc.

So, powerless? At least the mages have Fraternities and the First Enchanter to represent their interests.

Free.

Opressed.

 

[Steelcan]

truly, their visitation rights with family, the free meals, the free education, the protection (with the clause "don't be a blood mage"), they don't need to worry about income, nobility can't interfere with them, they are allowed to leave with permission from the First Enchanter, truly a dystopian hellscape on par with INGSOC.

[thesuperdarkone2]

They live in extremely wealthy institutions housed in palaces.
"Opressed", zoo animals" oooh the pain.


I assume you have seen a trial in Thedas, right? The Lord has the final say, there is no jury of peers, no laywers, etc.
So, powerless? At least the mages have Fraternities and the First Enchanter to represent their interests.
Free.

Opressed.

Isn't this the same excuse Dorian uses to justify slavery?

[Catilina]

truly, their visitation rights with family, the free meals, the free education, the protection (with the clause "don't be a blood mage"), they don't need to worry about income, nobility can't interfere with them, they are allowed to leave with permission from the First Enchanter, truly a dystopian hellscape on par with INGSOC.

PROTECTION? Hehe! 

Let's clearly: this is a joke, it's not? (My English is very weak, maybe I misunderstand...)

[Daerog]

Reforms were coming regardless of the war. The war just cost unnecessary loss of life.

So many did not want this war, including the Templar at the Aeonar. Supposedly, the Templars did not kill anyone there, as it was found empty with no signs of violence. Oh, goody, Arkham Asylum was emptied...

Forcing the Circle to declare war instead of just making a splinter group, while saying mages in Circles don't have to join, was cruel to the innocents that wanted no part in it. Why were there no mage children at Redcliffe? Did it say why, I don't remember.

As for war breaking out in Circles, I thought it was interesting that my mage could say rogue mages killed his mentor, an enchanter Viv once knew.

As for Viv making it so the Circle and College exist (Long live Divine Victoria!), I am incredibly curious as to how the various nations will respond, as the Chantry could have zero oversight on either institution. Mages not being allowed to govern will still be in effect, but they can certainly still be advisors and join the Chantry. Will leaders favor one over the other? Force kids to take necessary training? Create their own magic police? Will northern Rivain adopt more Qunari customs?

I'm sure Nevarra would love to use their better trained mages against Orlais.

Nevarra is certainly in an advantageous position after the fall of the Circle and civil war in Orlais. Necromancers raising chevalier corpses or at least making spirits mimic them, should make for good times.

[MisterJB]

Isn't this the same excuse Dorian uses to justify slavery?

The main difference, of course, being that in the Circle System, mages are not forced to work and have rights to protect their personhood whereas slaves in the Imperium are property that can be butchered at parties for the entertainment of the guests.

 

But who's counting that. They are isolated, SLAVERY!

[Daerog]

PROTECTION? Hehe! 
Let's clearly: this is a joke, it's not?

Greater protection than anyone who isn't a noble gets.

[Steelcan]

PROTECTION? Hehe! 

Let's clearly: this is a joke, it's not?

from the angry mobs that would sooner see them ripped limb from limb than peacefully living amongst them

[MisterJB]

PROTECTION? Hehe! 

Let's clearly: this is a joke, it's not? (My English is very weak, maybe I misunderstand...)

I don't know, ask the peasants of Amaranthine who was more at danger of being eaten by a Darkspawn.

 

 

[Catilina]

from the angry mobs that would sooner see them ripped limb from limb than peacefully living amongst them

I don't misunderstod... you really kidding.

 

I almost believed that the mages should be thankful...

[Steelcan]

I don't misunderstod... you really kidding.

remind me what Wynne was up to before going to the Circle? Or our Dalish elf person whose name starts with an M but otherwise escapes me?

Mages are in much more danger out of the Circle than within it. Unless they are blood mages (or live in Tevinter)

[Daerog]

remind me what Wynne was up to before going to the Circle? Or our Dalish elf person whose name starts with an M but otherwise escapes me?
Mages are in much more danger out of the Circle than within it. Unless they are blood mages (or live in Tevinter)

Tevinter? Where new mages are seen as threats or tools to more powerful mages, where mages can kill other mages in public with few caring, and where you have to risk more and more just to survive a Game more cut throat than the one in Orlais?

I would rather go to Nevarra and put on gray robes.

[Catilina]

remind me what Wynne was up to before going to the Circle? Or our Dalish elf person whose name starts with an M but otherwise escapes me?

Mages are in much more danger out of the Circle than within it. Unless they are blood mages (or live in Tevinter)

Maybe if they not be punished mages by imprisonment, but a real school ... The Chantry does nothing to counter the silly fear. If the peasants terrified, the mage child hiding more difficult.

[MisterJB]

The silly fear of people who can summon firestorms or control your mind or make you explode from the inside out.

Silly fear.