1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Maybe if they not be punished mages by imprisonment, but a real school ... The Chantry does nothing to counter the silly fear. If the peasants terrified, the mage child hiding more difficult.

the Chantry does plenty to counter the silly fear, they send templars in to save mages from the mobs that would tear them apart. And in what way is it silly?
  Untrained mages are more than dangerous enough on their own.

 

Furthermore, how does the Circle differ for kids than boarding school?  Unless you are proposing that all children should be given the same rights as adults, in which case that's a whole other issue.

[thesuperdarkone2]

The silly fear of people who can summon firestorms or control your mind or make you explode from the inside out.
Silly fear.

So encouraging antagonizing these people is smart?

[Daerog]

Maybe if they not be punished mages by imprisonment, but a real school ... The Chantry does nothing to counter the silly fear. If the peasants terrified, the mage child hiding more difficult.

Considering an untrained mage child can kill everyone in a village by accident, the fear is pretty justified.

College or Circle or Collective, mages should be forced to learn and train somewhere. This training is not just for a job either, but a lifetime commitment as one can't stop being a mage (ya, ya, there is Tranquility, but whatever).

[thesuperdarkone2]

the Chantry does plenty to counter the silly fear, they send templars in to save mages from the mobs that would tear them apart. And in what way is it silly?
Untrained mages are more than dangerous enough on their own.

Furthermore, how does the Circle differ for kids than boarding school? Unless you are proposing that all children should be given the same rights as adults, in which case that's a whole other issue.

Remind me where boarding schools can essentially lobotomize you, take away your child and say you'll never see them again, and make it so that you never see your family again unless you are a noble.

[MisterJB]

So encouraging antagonizing these people is smart?

 

You'd rather people live at the mercy of mages? Don't raise your eyes too much, you may antagonize them.

 

What is smart is to create a force capable of containing them and then isolate them.
 

[Catilina]

the Chantry does plenty to counter the silly fear, they send templars in to save mages from the mobs that would tear them apart. And in what way is it silly?
  Untrained mages are more than dangerous enough on their own.

 

Furthermore, how does the Circle differ for kids than boarding school?  Unless you are proposing that all children should be given the same rights as adults, in which case that's a whole other issue.

Boarding schools, from where the student will never be released ... Permission to go? That not freedom. They will not let a mage family, have children? The mages really should be thankful: The family just a burden...

[Steelcan]

Remind me where boarding schools can essentially lobotomize you, take away your child and say you'll never see them again, and make it so that you never see your family again unless you are a noble.

Have we ever seen a tranquil child?

 

As for the "never seeing them again" Wynne was not of noble blood but she was allowed to stay away from the Circle almost indefinitely (including after the Blight), and we know from other mages that these sort of things vary Circle to Circle, Kirkwall is always mentioned as the absolute harshest and even then it was very easy for non-nobles to access the Gallows.

[Daerog]

Remind me where boarding schools can essentially lobotomize you, take away your child and say you'll never see them again, and make it so that you never see your family again unless you are a noble.

Ya, Jedi are a better example than boarding school.

As for Tranquility, while I don't like it, it is better than losing your soul to a demon. Time is weird in the Fade, you can be tortured for centuries just because you were a weak mage. Some souls move on when the body dies, but a powerful enough demon can keep a village of souls trapped for years.

[Steelcan]

Boarding schools, from where the student will never be released ... Permission to go? That not freedom. They will not let a mage family, have children? The mages really should be thankful: The family just a burden...

except for when they can leave nearly indefinitely as we've seen in numerous examples, that's a hell of a lot more freedom than the average person living in Thedas will see.

 

And the family bit is unfortunate, and I will certainly not say all aspects of Circle life are ideal.

[Catilina]

except for when they can leave nearly indefinitely as we've seen in numerous examples, that's a hell of a lot more freedom than the average person living in Thedas will see.

 

And the family bit is unfortunate, and I will certainly not say all aspects of Circle life are ideal.

For those who want to live locked up, by all means ideal.

 

"the family a bit is UNFORTUNATE"? You have really great sense of humor. They can't live with the way other people!

[Steelcan]

For those who want to live locked up, by all means ideal.

 

"the family a bit is UNFORTUNATE"? You have really great sense of humor.

you can keep saying that they are all locked up like death row inmates all you want, it makes it no more accurate.  We have seen and been told numerous times that mages are not restricted to the Circle for life and on top of that they enjoy a much higher standard of living than anyone who isn't noble.

 

and you have an underdeveloped sense for understatement.

[MisterJB]

 You have really great sense of humor.

"Also, Deadpool join X-men, be superhero."

[Daerog]

I think Jedi in Star Wars deserve more revulsion than they get if being taken from family and forever forced to work for an institution and needing permission from superiors is what pisses people off about the Circle. Sith have it right when dealing with Force users, I guess.


Edit: Wait, scratch that work bit, mages are not forced to risk their lives for others because their Master makes them. Unless one's master is Fiona.

[Catilina]

you can keep saying that they are all locked up like death row inmates all you want, it makes it no more accurate.  We have seen and been told numerous times that mages are not restricted to the Circle for life and on top of that they enjoy a much higher standard of living than anyone who isn't noble.

 

and you have an underdeveloped sense for understatement.

And it compensates for the lost life? Well, certainly there are who do.

[thesuperdarkone2]

you can keep saying that they are all locked up like death row inmates all you want, it makes it no more accurate. We have seen and been told numerous times that mages are not restricted to the Circle for life and on top of that they enjoy a much higher standard of living than anyone who isn't noble.

and you have an underdeveloped sense for understatement.

Then why does the bio for a human Mage inquisitor say you would have been stuck in the circle for the rest of your life if it wasn't for the rebellion?

[Steelcan]

Then why does the bio for a human Mage inquisitor say you would have been stuck in the circle for the rest of your life if it wasn't for the rebellion?

*gasp* the bio at the beginning of the game glosses over the finer points of the lore in the interest of brevity!

 

truly horrific that is

[Steelcan]

And it compensates for the lost life? Well, certainly there are who do.

lost life?  They lose out on farming for the rest of their lives?

[thesuperdarkone2]

lost life? They lose out on farming for the rest of their lives?

How about actually starting a family?

[Steelcan]

How about actually starting a family?

Why does that keep getting brought up as the end all be all?

 

Are mages not supposed to ever want to pursue careers?  Can they derive no satisfaction from study or the other employments open to them?  And hell, we don't even know if that restriction applies to mages living outside the Circle.

[Daerog]

The Circle system can't support families, unless Thedas wants Tevinter to make more magical buildings to turn into Circle Towers.

There are always special cases, though. There was that one mage in Fereldan that lived outside the Circle and had a family. Against the rules, sure, but no one raised any meaningful fuss since the dude aided Fereldan in throwing out the Orlesians.

Edit: Maybe there is some reason for it, like attachments being bad or the Circle doesn't want to establish mage dynasties within the Circle or something.

[Hellion Rex]

Why does that keep getting brought up as the end all be all?

 

Are mages not supposed to ever want to pursue careers?  Can they derive no satisfaction from study or the other employments open to them?  And hell, we don't even know if that restriction applies to mages living outside the Circle.

If there is one thing I'd like to see more of, it is the allowing of mages to pursue other interests that might benefit society, particularly like that of healing. I would like to see mages provide healing services, both to the poor and maybe even contract out to noble families. The proceeds would go towards the upkeep of the circle. I would like to see mages possibly provide other services to the public as well, perhaps in something like construction, perhaps even work at the behest of the state, if supervised by Templars.

[Daerog]

If there is one thing I'd like to see more of, it is the allowing of mages to pursue other interests that might benefit society, particularly like that of healing. I would like to see mages provide healing services, both to the poor and maybe even contract out to noble families. The proceeds would go towards the upkeep of the circle. I would like to see mages possibly provide other services to the public as well, perhaps in something like construction, perhaps even work at the behest of the state, if supervised by Templars.

Iirc, WoT says that mages were limited to what they could pursue during the early Chantry and before the Circles. They pretty much did healing and Chantry flame maintenance.

Not much healing now, which isn't that strange since there are doctors/surgeons out there and mages can't cure diseases, just encourages the body to heal. Again, iirc.

Still, regardless of others being uncomfortable around magic, a broken leg healing in a day is better than not able to feed one's family for a week. Ander's clinic was popular.

On another note, even if there is the College and Circle, now that the Chantry can't threaten nations to back off, what's to stop nations with enough resources to make their own schools with greater or fewer restraints on mages? Nations now are not obligated to tolerate the Circle or College.

If I ruled a nation or city-state, I would immediately seize Circle land and resources. That stuff is valuable. I could also make the Circle or College pay taxes and agree to free enchantments if they wish to have influence on local mages. I'm guessing BW is not going to do this and just have nations work with the Circle, College, or both.

Really, though, Nevarra needs neither. Just have the Mortalitasi take over with training mages and have no foreign influence on their mages.

Edit: Who is protecting the Circle and College if they are now independent? Can a nation attack and take over a school within their borders? Able to take mages they claim are criminals from a school? The schools are at the mercy of the nobility, now. Annulments can be done by the local lord, no need to have a Grand Clerics permission now.

Just as alienages get purged, so can that happen to the mage schools, now.

[Hellion Rex]

As long as sovereign nations are able to both provide, protect, as well as contain their charges, I don't care if the Chantry never holds dominion over mages again.

[Gileadan]

We've had to choose between the two sides in all three games and the large majority of players choose mages without thinking twice.

And why wouldn't they? One's first instinct is to help the oppressed. But if it is to be presented as a choice, it shouldn't be so black and white.

While there are a few reasons to be pro Circle and respect the templars' real purpose, the games failed to provide one that is just as compelling as the noble cause of mage freedom.

Why wouldn't they? Because of the not thinking twice, obviously.

 

If a bunch of ebola patients complained about being put under quarantine, I'd set them free too! It's not like they did anything wrong, so why put the poor people into jail?  Because the rest of the world has a right to not be infected with ebola, just like it has a right to not be blown up or used as blood sacrifices by a dangerous minority with a strong tendency to go gaga.

[Lulupab]

from the angry mobs that would sooner see them ripped limb from limb than peacefully living amongst them

 

Mages don't need protection against unarmored peasants with pitchforks though, The chantry is PROTECTING these peasants from getting roasted.