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[raging_monkey]

Unrestrained power? I'd say frequency of temptation increases, and the more one falls to temptation, the more cortupt one gets. So... both?

This is why power needs to be tempered with restrictions/restraints. The more power, the more focus on how and where such power can be used must be defined.

This is why Captain America is wrong in that Civil War movie.

he was worse in the comics he's a terrorist(or pro-indepence fighter if one being generous) hell the legislation was fair

[Lulupab]

 

From the Dragon Age wiki:-

 

 

You must be high on Lyrium and Elfroot son. The First Enchanter is not a ruler.

 

You seem to be on something even stronger, I want whatever you are on right now. Because if something can damage your reading comprehension like that, imagine the ecstasy.

 

I said "ruler of sorts", I knew exactly what I was talking about. Ruler of sorts is akin to leader at the very least. For exampe remember Irving's influence on sentencing Jowan to tranquility. Like it or not FE speaks for all mages and makes decisions for them. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

he was worse in the comics he's a terrorist(or pro-indepence fighter if one being generous) hell the legislation was fair

And iron man becomes nazitron 2000 and essentially builds a concentration camp in hell. There's a reason everyone hated iron man after civil war.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Head= leader. You srs bro?

 

The First Enchanter is a leader of Circle Mages in the same way Josephine Montilyet is the leader of Antiva, which is to say they aren't.

 

The First Enchanter is a representative ambassador of the Circle Mages to the Templars in that Circle and to the Templar Order in general, in the same way Josephine Montilyet is a former representative ambassador of Antiva to Orlais who is now a representative ambassador of the Inquisition to Thedas.

 

The First Enchanter does not lead the Mages in the same way a Monarch leads their subject.

 

SRS ? That subreddit is right up the alley of the SJW types like yourself, not mine bro.
 

[Daerog]

The First Enchanters and Grand Enchanter held power in the Circles and could set policies. They were the bosses. They were meant to be checked by the Templars and Chantry (like America with its division of government, but in this case, the Chantry is the Constitution... or whatever... you get it). It slowly went off the rails, but FEs and the GE were meant to be the rulers of the Circles who were expected to follow the agreement the system was based on.

[thesuperdarkone2]

You seem to be on something even stronger, I want whatever you are on right now. Because if something can damage your reading comprehension like that, imagine the ecstasy.

I said "ruler of sorts", I knew exactly what I was talking about. Ruler of sorts is akin to leader at the very least. For exampe remember Irving's influence on sentencing Jowan to tranquility. Like it or not FE speaks for all mages and makes decisions for them.

And that's not even mentioning the grand enchanter. If it was powerless, why did Vivienne want to be grand enchanter?

[thesuperdarkone2]

SRS ? That subreddit is right up the alley of the SJW types like yourself, not mine bro.

Srs= serious in Internet lingo. Do you even understand internet lingo or is that too hard for you?

Also, lol that you think I'm a sjw just because I don't hate all Muslims but judging by your posts in your Cassandra hate thread, you act like anyone who disagrees with you is a sjw. Lol not sure if that is funny or pathetic.

[Catilina]

Let's not dodge the question with a tangent, shall we? We're still talking about generalities. We can get to mages and mundanes later.

So, starting with first principles-

If we accept that power corrupts, does more power corrupt more frequently, or to a greater degree?

 

Not at all. It is true that a mage more powerful and dangerous than a warrior. The demons are more likely to find him, because he is in connection with the Fade. Yes. I did never said: not. I said, however, that the mages should not deserve jail time, just because he can be evil. 

 

By this logic we should jail exclude all the children who have a talent for persuasion, and shows interest to politics.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

he was worse in the comics he's a terrorist(or pro-indepence fighter if one being generous) hell the legislation was fair

 

Captain America in the movie is not wrong.

 

1) If not for the Avengers in New York, the Chitauri forces would have overrun Earth and Manhattan would be a desolate nuclear wasteland.

 

2) If not for Captain America & Co, Hydra would have killed millions of people on the planet to put billions of people on the planet under their total control.

 

3) Ultron was a creation of Tony Stank, not the Avengers, which means he and he alone should take full responsibility for Ultron's actions. Furthermore, if not for the Avengers, Ultron would have destroyed all of humanity.

 

4) If not for the actions of Scarlet Witch at Nigeria, Steve Rogers, one of the most capable fighter and hero of Earth would have died along with the crowd around him.

 

5) The Governments of the world and United Nations are ineffective. Name me one thing that a governments of the world does properly. Many of them can't even protect their own borders and many of them can't even provide good education for their own citizens. Worse still, the United Nations is an impotent organization. They have not prevented any armed conflicts, certain UN councils such as UN Council of Human Rights is now occupied by nations like China and Saudi Arabia and as of late, the UN has been pushing for internet censorship and flooding Europe with risky economic migrants.Point is, UN and many of the governments of the world are useless.

 

Point is, Marvel Cinematic Universe superheroes =/= Mages. Marvel Cinematic Universe superheroes cannot get possessed and turn into out-of-control abominations. More importantly, out of all of them, only Scarlet Witch is capable of some form of mind control which is the substitute for Blood Magic.

[raging_monkey]

And iron man becomes nazitron 2000 and essentially builds a concentration camp in hell. There's a reason everyone hated iron man after civil war.

they could leave if they would just sign on the Damn paper. And I prefer the phrase "quarantine for dangerous assets" which is valid.

Wait I have a idea both sides would love! Dark you crazy promage

Idea; what if we do things like have the circle but keep a public register. Mages given rights and loose(or right pending on where we go with this) at the reasonable cost of long term military service and magical research.

If mages bit!# over "no rights" well lets treat them as assets to the state, rather than a faction in the church. Natrually they would need to be segregated from the mundies unless they are military or nobility. They serve their nation first than ethnic group.

Those who don't toe the line the are sent to prisons for x time or tranquilized

[Daerog]

The Avengers can still do that stuff under the UN. However, I don't like the idea of... let's say Chinese Elite Forces doing what they will in my country without respect to it's sovereignty. Just because a group saves the world, they don't get to set world policy.

Even the Justice League will stay out of a nation that has declared they don't want the JL in their land... well, they accidently did in that one story that led to Forever Evil, but whatever. Injustice is a good story, too. Also, governments should develop anti-superhero contigencies, Batman is right in that at least.


Also, Marvel sucks anyway, DC is better. (My honest opinion, not a scientific fact. I like the GL mythos so far.)


Back to mages... ummm... Vivienne is the best! Go Viv!

[raging_monkey]

Captain America in the movie is not wrong.

1) If not for the Avengers in New York, the Chitauri forces would have overrun Earth and Manhattan would be a desolate nuclear wasteland.

2) If not for Captain America & Co, Hydra would have killed millions of people on the planet to put billions of people on the planet under their total control.

3) Ultron was a creation of Tony Stank, not the Avengers, which means he and he alone should take full responsibility for Ultron's actions. Furthermore, if not for the Avengers, Ultron would have destroyed all of humanity.

4) If not for the actions of Scarlet Witch at Nigeria, Steve Rogers, one of the most capable fighter and hero of Earth would have died along with the crowd around him.

5) The Governments of the world and United Nations are ineffective. Name me one thing that a governments of the world does properly. Many of them can't even protect their own borders and many of them can't even provide good education for their own citizens. Worse still, the United Nations is an impotent organization. They have not prevented any armed conflicts, certain UN councils such as UN Council of Human Rights is now occupied by nations like China and Saudi Arabia and as of late, the UN has been pushing for internet censorship and flooding Europe with risky economic migrants.Point is, UN and many of the governments of the world are useless.

Point is, Marvel Cinematic Universe superheroes =/= Mages. Marvel Cinematic Universe superheroes cannot get possessed and turn into out-of-control abominations. More importantly, out of all of them, only Scarlet Witch is capable of some form of mind control which is the substitute for Blood Magic.

I am aware (prefer comics over mcu which only age of ultron was the best rest were decent ) and the similarity is obvious

But back to da

[raging_monkey]

The Avengers can still do that stuff under the UN. However, I don't like the idea of... let's say Chinese Elite Forces doing what they will in my country without respect to it's sovereignty. Just because a group saves the world, they don't get to set world policy.

Even the Justice League will stay out of a nation that has declared they don't want the JL in their land... well, they accidently did in that one story that led to Forever Evil, but whatever. Injustice is a good story, too. Also, governments should develop anti-superhero contigencies, Batman is right in that at least.


Also, Marvel sucks anyway, DC is better. (My honest opinion, not a scientific fact. I like the GL mythos so far.)


Back to mages... ummm... Vivienne is the best! Go Viv!

Well on that we can agree everything before the new 52 reboot was quite enjoyable

[Daerog]

they could leave if they would just sign on the Damn paper. And I prefer the phrase "quarantine for dangerous assets" which is valid.
Wait I have a idea both sides would love! Dark you crazy promage
Idea; what if we do things like have the circle but keep a public register. Mages given rights and loose(or right pending on where we go with this) at the reasonable cost of long term military service and magical research.
If mages bit!# over "no rights" well lets treat them as assets to the state, rather than a faction in the church. Natrually they would need to be segregated from the mundies unless they are military or nobility. They serve their nation first than ethnic group.
Those who don't toe the line the are sent to prisons for x time or tranquilized

They aren't an ethnicity...

In the Circle, they weren't forced into war (unless it was a Blight or a Qunari Invasion... not sure on participation in other Exalted Marches).

They pursued magic research if they wished, just not blood magic or other forms of corrupting magic.

They could pursue other academic pursuits in leisure, like botany.

Just from my perspective, I'd rather be in a Circle than conscripted into some lord's power grab agenda. Not all militaries are centralized in Thedas.

[thesuperdarkone2]

They aren't an ethnicity...
In the Circle, they weren't forced into war (unless it was a Blight or a Qunari Invasion... not sure on participation in other Exalted Marches).
They pursued magic research if they wished, just not blood magic or other forms of corrupting magic.
They could pursue other academic pursuits in leisure, like botany.
Just from my perspective, I'd rather be in a Circle than conscripted into some lord's power grab agenda. Not all militaries are centralized in Thedas.

That's assuming the Templars aren't assholes in your circle.

[Lulupab]

You really like going off-topic, don't you? Regardless mages expected First Enchanters to lead and guide them.

 

And as mentioned Grand Enchanter holds quite a bit of power, but only over fellow mages.

[raging_monkey]

They aren't an ethnicity...

In the Circle, they weren't forced into war (unless it was a Blight or a Qunari Invasion... not sure on participation in other Exalted Marches).

They pursued magic research if they wished, just not blood magic or other forms of corrupting magic.

They could pursue other academic pursuits in leisure, like botany.

Just from my perspective, I'd rather be in a Circle than conscripted into some lord's power grab agenda. Not all militaries are centralized in Thedas.

orlais seems pretty centralized. And I used ethncity due to convience... Idk what to call mages as group so yeah.

And maybe if they were conscripted they earlier maybe would be happier, national identity can be a good thing

[raging_monkey]

You really like going off-topic, don't you? Regardless mages expected First Enchanters to lead and guide them.

And as mentioned Grand Enchanter holds quite a bit of power, but only over fellow mages.

lulu it's the same arguements a year ago you and Dean got this

[Daerog]

orlais seems pretty centralized. And I used ethncity due to convience... Idk what to call mages as group so yeah.
And maybe if they were conscripted they earlier maybe would be happier, national identity can be a good thing

Ya, Orlais is centralized. The Free Marches are city states. Fereldan has a small royal army, but other soldiers are loyal to their local lords first, crown second. Tevinter... I'm guessing it's like Fereldan. No idea on other nations.

While I like the Circle, if it is to be no more, I'd prefer nations taking charge of training and dealing with their own mages. No single system, whatever is decided by each nation or lord, with their own magic police and only restricted by their faith and philosophy.

It would shatter the unity of southern mages, but... actually, the war already shattered it and the epilogue shows that southern mages are no longer one. Fiona was a terrible Grand Enchanter.

[Lulupab]

lulu it's the same arguements a year ago you and Dean got this

 

Well they do come up frequently.

 

Fact is I think many people agree mages shouldn't have titles, except among themselves. With Tevinter being the exception due to them being culturally intertwined with magic.

[MisterJB]

Not entirely hereditary and to maintain a seat in the Magisterium, you either have to make powerful friends or be fearsome enough that no one would want to assassinate you. You cannot possibly tell me that mastering intrigue and battle prowess is not a good sign of a good ruler.

So, basically what already happens in the South where there are also struggles between powerful families involving much intrigue.

 

Unless you want to claim otherwise in which case, non-mage nobilty would appear to be better rulers since they haven't created cutthroat politics.

 

Besides which, I could tell you that if I wanted to. Sure, someone who has mastered politics could be a good ruler...unless he chose to not be one by not dedicating his or her talents to improving the lot of his nation.

In such case, all that mastering intrigue or battle prowess proves is that you're the best at being on top of your pool.
 

 

Andrastians remember him as the saintly mage who showed mercy to a tortured Andraste, mages remember him a shrewd politician.

Yeah, Andrastianism's views on Hessarian are way more complicated than that with him being at times represented as wicked and other times as a redeemed instrument of the Maker.

 

Regardless, that is not the point. The point is that you were claiming that weak rulers are those who are dependant upon the truly powerful and then suggested that was the mages. However, this man that you hail as a good ruler was dependant upon the non-magical majority in Tevinter thus, you contradicted yourself.

[raging_monkey]

Ya, Orlais is centralized. The Free Marches are city states. Fereldan has a small royal army, but other soldiers are loyal to their local lords first, crown second. Tevinter... I'm guessing it's like Fereldan. No idea on other nations.

While I like the Circle, if it is to be no more, I'd prefer nations taking charge of training and dealing with their own mages. No single system, whatever is decided by each nation or lord, with their own magic police and only restricted by their faith and philosophy.

It would shatter the unity of southern mages, but... actually, the war already shattered it and the epilogue shows that southern mages are no longer one. Fiona was a terrible Grand Enchanter.

agreed. But I like Fiona as ge made a bad call but I would made the same military service at possible citizenship(i know dubious at best) but I liked

[raging_monkey]

Well they do come up frequently.

Fact is I think many people agree mages shouldn't have titles, except among themselves. With Tevinter being the exception due to them being culturally intertwined with magic.

that's my opinion. Mages should rule themselves... Preferably on a island with ways to count for isolationism

[Sports72Xtrm]

So, basically what already happens in the South where there are also struggles between powerful families involving much intrigue.

 

Unless you want to claim otherwise in which case, non-mage nobilty would appear to be better rulers since they haven't created cutthroat politics.

 

Besides which, I could tell you that if I wanted to. Sure, someone who has mastered politics could be a good ruler...unless he chose to not be one by not dedicating his or her talents to improving the lot of his nation.

In such case, all that mastering intrigue or battle prowess proves is that you're the best at being on top of your pool.

I never claimed mundanes can't be good rulers, I just assert that mages are capable of being good rulers. Whether the south employs the same cutthroat politics or not is irrelevant, but as you said so yourself the south does the same, I will just concede as you point out that southern rulers are every bit as pragmatic and vile as the magisters.

 

What is the good of a nation? Is it the happiness of the poor, the wealth of the nobles, the ability to destroy one's enemies? The good of the nation is subjective. Some may say Meredith was the good of Kirkwall, other say she was a terror.

 

 

Yeah, Andrastianism's views on Hessarian are way more complicated than that with him being at times represented as wicked and other times as a redeemed instrument of the Maker. 

 

 

Regardless, that is not the point. The point is that you were claiming that weak rulers are those who are dependant upon the truly powerful and then suggested that was the mages. However, this man that you hail as a good ruler was dependant upon the non-magical majority in Tevinter thus, you contradicted yourself.

 

If the mages of Tevinter are dependent on the non-magical majority of Tevinter then how is it that the mages are in power to this day and not the mundanes? If it is a contradiction that mages are not fit to rule, then the Tevinter Imperium would have been conquered by the South or the Qunari or by its own slaves yet they persevered. Obviously, their tenacity to continue thriving is due some credit of their capability to rule. Thus I've contradicted nothing.

[Daerog]

Tevinter is dependent on its mundane population. The difference is that, in their culture, being born with magic is a huge blessing that marks one for greatness... even if that greatness may end up being a pencil pusher.

Edit: The general populace supports mage rule, or at least enough of the general population (not including slaves, I mean citizens).