Right, especially highly illegal and dangerous arts while helping psychotic seriall killer.
Why, those are the best ones to study and understand. How else are going to defeat them? Or, better, de-mystify them, deny them the power and fear that Chantry hysterics give them? Learn to use them to heal and to combat the Blight?
Well, if anyone deserves a hatchet to the skull, it's the Templars.
Maker forbid people try to find common ground.
Templars are the fanatical volunteer army of a religious organization that can basically be compelled to do anything if some priest says it's okay.
Anyone who supported their rebellion would be executed,
First you're complaining they obey the Chantry, then you want to execute them for rebelling against it.
Look, it's pretty obvious you just have a bone to pick with Templars in general but at least try to be consistent.
First you're complaining they obey the Chantry, then you want to execute them for rebelling against it.
Look, it's pretty obvious you just have a bone to pick with Templars in general but at least try to be consistent.
No, just the officers. I do blame the Chantry for producing such zealots, but I won't entirely deny them agency, especially when the rebel against a reformer so they can butcher their supposed charges to their hearts content. I wouldn't have had a problem if they rebelled against the Chantry because they realized the inhumanity of the system they were enforcing, but no, they rebelled to make it worse.
Though the ranking Chantry mothers should be put on trial too, but the Conclave explosion takes care of most of them anyway.
Why, those are the best ones to study and understand. How else are going to defeat them? Or, better, de-mystify them, deny them the power and fear that Chantry hysterics give them? Learn to use them to heal and to combat the Blight?
Very simple, you send Templars.Your insane troll logic that you somehow defeat blood magic by supporting it and promoting it is rather alarming.Considering, that said activities lead to dangerous serial killer roaming while spamming demons, and Orsino turning into Harvester when faced with hard situation chantry "hysterics" (common sense) is completly justified
Very simple, you send Templars.Your insane troll logic that you somehow defeat blood magic by supporting it and promoting it is rather alarming.Considering, that said activities lead to dangerous serial killer roaming while spamming demons, and Orsino turning into Harvester when faced with hard situation chantry "hysterics" (common sense) is completly justified
He just choosed this particularly complicated manner of the the suicide. He just lost his mind.
He just choosed this particularly complicated manner of the the suicide this particularly complicated manner. He just lost his mind.
Well, great excuse but that won't change that people don't want mage to blow up their city just beacuse said mage is lunatic or have emotional breakdown.
Well, great excuse but that don't change that people don't want to mage blow up their city just beacuse said mage is lunatic or have emotional breakdown.
It was hardly the whole city. Elthina's palace represented everything wrong with the Chantry, it going up was better in the long run for everyone.
It was hardly the whole city. Elthina's palace represented everything wrong with the Chantry, it going up was better in the long run for everyone.
Im not talking about Anders, only Orsino.Also no, an unstable abomnation blowing up society because he feels it is right thing to do isn't better for everyone, in fact it went poorly even for mages and in the end failed to cause rebelion.
Well, great excuse but that won't change that people don't want mage to blow up their city just beacuse said mage is lunatic or have emotional breakdown.
Orsino blew up not anything. Anders did.
No, just the officers. I do blame the Chantry for producing such zealots, but I won't entirely deny them agency, especially when the rebel against a reformer so they can butcher their supposed charges to their hearts content. I wouldn't have had a problem if they rebelled against the Chantry because they realized the inhumanity of the system they were enforcing, but no, they rebelled to make it worse.
Though the ranking Chantry mothers should be put on trial too, but the Conclave explosion takes care of most of them anyway.
Well, at least you don't deny the selective morality at work here.
"Rebellion is good except when I'm against it."
It was hardly the whole city. Elthina's palace represented everything wrong with the Chantry, it going up was better in the long run for everyone.
I'm really curious about your justification of terrorism apologism.
Shall we really analyze what happened? Hundreds died in the blast (confirmed by WoT volume 2), hundreds more if not thousands died in the Annulment, there was still damage being repaired in DAI and what did the people of Kirkwall gain from it? Has their quality of life improved? Has some imaginary wealth that was going to the Chantry going to Dark Town now? No.
Orsino blew up not anything. Anders did.
<Facepalm> First of all i wasn't talking about blowing up chantry, i was talking about that society wouldn't want to be demolished just because some mage is lunatic or have emotional breakdown. 
Im not talking about Anders, only Orsino.Also no, an unstable abomnation blowing up society because he feels it is right thing to do isn't better for everyone, in fact it went poorly even for mages and in the end failed to cause rebelion.
Orsino did not believe that doing the right thing. Then he did not believe in anything anymore.
Orsino did not believe that doing the right thing.Then he did not believe in anything.
<sigh> It is obvious that in that instance i referred to Anders actions and that it went poorly for everyone including mages.
<sigh> It is obvious that in that instance i referred to Anders actions and that it went poorly for everyone including mages.
Not necessarily ... Anders has served his purpose, the Circles rebelled. Many mages freed. And the city got rid of from Meredith.
Honestly, I don't know why we don't just blow up these as well. What do they think they are? Amazing examples of architecture and cultural hallmarks of a nation that people can be proud of?
Pffff.
Not necessarily ... Anders has served his purpose, the Circles rebelled. Many mages freed.
Not rly, circles didn't rebel because of Anders only because of events years later and most likely would happen regardless of Anders actions.
Well, at least you don't deny the selective morality at work here.
"Rebellion is good except when I'm against it."
Did you read my post? I oppose the Chantry and its policies, especially toward mages. Templars are a part of that policy. The Templars rebel against the Chantry so they can enforce even harsher measures. I support a very specific kind of rebellion, and the Templars murderous tantrum is not it.
I'm really curious about your justification of terrorism apologism.
Shall we really analyze what happened? Hundreds died in the blast (confirmed by WoT volume 2), hundreds more if not thousands died in the Annulment, there was still damage being repaired in DAI and what did the people of Kirkwall gain from it? Has their quality of life improved? Has some imaginary wealth that was going to the Chantry going to Dark Town now? No.
I would put every death that occurred during the Annulment on Meredith's (insane, tyrannical, blood-soaked) shoulders, for starters. However, Elthina was her enabler, the snake in the grass who encouraged her to topple Kirkwall's legitimate government in the name of the Chantry and Orlais. Elthina and her priestly cronies shares Meredith's guilt, not even mentioning her other crimes. Elthina encourages Petrice's zeal, extorts money from the lowest in Kirkwall, and does nothing as Meredith's misrule destroys Kirkwall from the inside out.
Without such a leech draining the city, it will be able to move on and recover from what it inflicted. She had to go, and the scale of it was good for making the Chantry understand the fear it inflicts every day, and not just on mages.
[...]
Honestly, I don't know why we don't just blow up these as well. What do they think they are? Amazing examples of architecture and cultural hallmarks of a nation that people can be proud of?
Pffff.
Oops! Wrong screenshots... Or maybe my memory cheated me but, I remember, than the story takes place in Kirkwall.
Did you read my post? I oppose the Chantry and its policies, especially toward mages. Templars are a part of that policy. The Templars rebel against the Chantry so they can enforce even harsher measures. I support a very specific kind of rebellion, and the Templars murderous tantrum is not it.
I would put every death that occurred during the Annulment on Meredith's (insane, tyrannical, blood-soaked) shoulders, for starters. However, Elthina was her enabler, the snake in the grass who encouraged her to topple Kirkwall's legitimate government in the name of the Chantry and Orlais. Elthina and her priestly cronies shares Meredith's guilt, not even mentioning her other crimes. Elthina encourages Petrice's zeal, extorts money from the lowest in Kirkwall, and does nothing as Meredith's misrule destroys Kirkwall from the inside out.
Without such a leech draining the city, it will be able to move on and recover from what it inflicted. She had to go, and the scale of it was good for making the Chantry understand the fear it inflicts every day, and not just on mages.
I don't think, I hated Elthina so much, but the fact that she do extremely bad policy. In her position and in the situation she should not have been to play wait and see.
I support a very specific kind of rebellion,
Yeah, that is what I said.
I would put every death that occurred during the Annulment on Meredith's (insane, tyrannical, blood-soaked) shoulders, for starters. However, Elthina was her enabler, the snake in the grass who encouraged her to topple Kirkwall's legitimate government in the name of the Chantry and Orlais. Elthina and her priestly cronies shares Meredith's guilt, not even mentioning her other crimes. Elthina encourages Petrice's zeal, extorts money
from the lowest in Kirkwall, and does nothing as Meredith's misrule destroys Kirkwall from the inside out.
Without such a leech draining the city, it will be able to move on and recover from what it inflicted. She had to go, and the scale of it was good for making the Chantry understand the fear it inflicts every day, and not just on mages.
Lore is kind of an optional thing to you, isn't it?
I mean, what does it matter if everything from the game to World of Thedas Volume 2 will point out how Elthina was one of the most beloved Grand Clerics in Thedas with entirely benign motives when you have to justify mage supremacism by pretending it's for everyone's good?
Without such a leech draining the city, it will be able to move on and recover from what it inflicted.
What does this even mean?
First of all, Elthina and the Chantry weren't draining Kirkwall of anything unless we consider every Chantry on Thedas to be doing the same. In fact, we routinely see Sisters talking about aiding the poor and we see them asking alms for them.
Second, even if what you claimed was true, nothing would be changed because, guess what, the people of Kirkwall didn't come to a realization that Elthina was a leech and removed her. The Chantry will just be rebuilt and there will be another Grand Cleric.
Honestly, I don't know why we don't just blow up these as well. What do they think they are? Amazing examples of architecture and cultural hallmarks of a nation that people can be proud of?
Pffff.
Not really a fair comparison. Kirkwall's Chantry was a Tevinter mansion, built by magic. A wonder that wouldn't even exist if she and hers could have their way, a building that represents an imperial past that the city rebelled against, and the tyranny it's trapped under now.
Giving complete freedom to a people that have been slaves or in captivity for a very long time isn't necessarily a good thing. The ones that are accustomed to that lifestyle aren't going to know what to do with their freedom.
Yeah, that is what I said.
Don't be willfully dense. Not all rebellions are created equal.
Lore is kind of an optional thing to you, isn't it?
I mean, what does it matter if everything from the game to World of Thedas Volume 2 will point out how Elthina was one of the most beloved Grand Clerics in Thedas with entirely benign motives when you have to justify mage supremacism by pretending it's for everyone's good?
Sometimes, you have to read between the lines, especially when dealing with Chantry propaganda. Elthina supports a coup that benefits basically no one but herself, and makes her look like a higher authority than the viscount, harbors a claimant to a neighboring city's throne, and that city's Circle conveniently burns down. It'll probably need a new, larger, Templar garrison soon, yeah? She promotes Petrice and does nothing to stop her from whipping Kirwall into an anti-Qunari frenzy, which seems like a good way to rid herself of some political and military rivals in the city, and gives her deniability if it fails. She does nothing to stop Meredith because she doesn't care what Meredith does, Meredith is her dog until she goes feral.
If anything, Elthina seems to be a tyrant with expansionist aims, and probably wants the Chantry to rule the Free Marches outright (under her, of course).
Not really a fair comparison. Kirkwall's Chantry was a Tevinter mansion, built by magic.
Because buildings have never been reporpused across history, expecially important ones.
Also, it was built by dwarves and rebuilt by the freed slaves after the uprising.
the tyranny it's trapped under now.
That is your opinion. The Kirkwallers believed it to be a holy builidng, a cultural hallmark of their city and something they could pride and joy in.
Do you think militant atheists have the right to blow up Notre Dame?
Do you think militant atheists have the right to blow up Notre Dame?
No. But the oppressed have the right to fight their oppressors, whatever form they take, and wherever they cower.
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