1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

I'd like to know since there are ancient amulets that protect spirits from being bound, why aren't there any that protect mages from possession?

I want to know if the Seeker ritual can be used on mages

[Iakus]

Did you forget how the Templars were the death squads and the Templars own their city in act 3?

I must have missed those "death squads" while I was chasing down the abominations and blood mages

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nah, I just see the disease beyond the symptoms.

 

1.LoL, all you did is quote from WoT that only partially captures chantry view concering magic and disfigured it from "Magic is a corrupting influence in the world" into "Magic is pure evil". Once again, that magic is also a gift is part of the chant, same one that chantry message preaches and is source of their religion, it is even brought up during harrowing. So, once again you took only chantry's partial stance on magic, completly ignoring another half that debunked your false claims. Therfore, yes claming that chantry preaches "magic is pure evil" and then quoting chant that chantry preaches and refers to magic as "gift" contradicts your claim.

 

2.LoL x2, another time you deliberately misinterpret something is said, Corruption is the abuse of power for personal gain. Saying, that magic is corrupting influence in the world is no different saying that power is corrupting influence in the world, magic in fact gives you power over others therfore is strong factor that corrupts people.

 

Second, those don't have anything to do with chantry claming magic is pure evil only with fact that magic is incredibly dangerous.Mages aren't locked in circles because they are evil only because they are dangerous, something that chantry acknowledges. In fact even DG debunked what you have said in this interview.

 

 

 

Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful

 

Also that seekers suck at their job , doesn't equatate chantry claming that magic is evil only to seekers being inefficient.

 

3.Magic is inherent problem, magic is incredibly dangerous to the point it threatens entire world that is a fact, you ignore another fact that chantry stance on magic is also it is useful.It isn't about good/evil in first place as you are trying to make it, it is about being dangerous and chantry policies exist to deal with that danger and ensure society and world is safe from them, nuclear bomb doesn't have to be evil to be treated as dangerous.

 

4.It was mockery and hyperbole of that you completly disregarded massive amount of issues that dalish have with their system and data that proves that their approach is not by any mean healthy, and constantly bring huge problems and harm to their societies. That is fallacious argument in first place, as well you could use group where 9/10 mages gone wrong to group where 250/1000 gone wrong as evidence of first group having better approach with mages.Dalish have 2 mages per clan, we only saw only few dalish clan and most of them gone wrong harming/endangering their or other society , while single circle deals with hundreds (if not thousands) of mages and most of crisis situations in circles never left circles preventing them from harming society. 

 

Second, actually there are very few mages that gone wrong due to Templars in da 2 or series overall, if i recall only Evelina turned into abomnation because of templars (and even then it doesn't excuse it as same could happen if she was attacked by bandits leaving society having to deal with abomnation), rest of mages succumbed to human vices and weakness ultimatly giving in corrupting infleunce of magic.

 

No one is denying that cirlce had problems, but problem wasn't that mages weren't free enough only that they had too much freedom, what is showed by that they managed practice blood magic in walls of the circle, or that Orsino had enough freedom to conspire with mage serial killer outside circle. Leliana is naive, Cassandra while tends to be more pragmatic is pretty idealistic as well, while Viviene is driven by self-interest while pragmatic.

 

Let's see:

-)We have keeper that seriously harmed own clan and people that weren't involved in his revenge, who created werewolf curse that lasted for centuries because of misplaced and irrational revenge.

-)We have first that killed innocent people in irrational rage just because she was tricked and started to kill humans without second thought.

-)We have foolish first, that was toying with blood magic and demons endangering not only her society but others in her recklessness, despite she proved she couldn't resist demons and yet foolishly insisted she can.As it wasn't enough she was playing with dangerous mirror that possibly killed her 2 friends while she didn't know what is on other side of said mirror and she was toying with that in the middle of the city.

-)We have dalish keeper that in name of love, sacrificed herself by letting demon possess her for piervusly mentioned foolish mage endangering her society and others. 

-)We have dalish clan that summoned demon (Imshael), what lead to unleashing demon by random scrub that encountered demon, what lead to death of many people including said clan.

-)Foolish dalish mage tried to use blood magic because of bravado, while only he paid price of his stupidity he still endangered other people.

 

That makes pretty much 5/6 clans that we encountered where mages went wrong.Pretty much telling how healthy dalish approach to mages is.Funny thing , single clan has to deal only with 2 mages. Plus, chantry teachings hardly caused a war, corrupted divine and selfish mages that cared only about themselves lead to mage-templar war, if Lambert got his way there would be no war and rebels would be dealt with.Not to mention that is another fallacy, as once again dalish have to deal with 2 mages per clan in tribal society, where single circle with hundreds (if not more) in whole nations.
 

[MisterJB]

So we just put an inaccurate and self-defeating label on magic for false simplicity? Instead of this False Dichotomy, how about teaching and training the boy to use his magic responsibly and instill in him a sense of responsibility and trust? Therefore, he's more likely to not abuse his power because he has a bond with society and is therefore, less likely to harm his society with his magic.

 

As I said before, you can teach the mage to use his magic responsably and he may or may not. Therefore, the safety of the people of Thedas is placed upon the conscience of each every individual mage and we know some, not all but certainly some, will fall to temptation. So, you are saying that in order for mages to be free, the sacrifices of some innocent people is acceptable.

 

Now, this may be justified to some people but certainly not to me. I would much rather place my trust in strong stone walls, distance and Templars.

 

Actually, abominations are still a problem and as I pointed out to a previous poster, most of the Abominations that we fight used to be Circle mages. Considering that the Circle System actually caused more harm due to the fundamentally flawed teachings of the Chantry, the Circle System failed to both protect mages and protect the people from magic. The Circle System in general just increased the likelihood that a mage would snap and abuse their power out of stress or a "let me be evil" mindset.

 

Ok, let's follow this logic to its end.

Let's assume that with the Circle system, four out of ten mages become Abominations whereas without it, "only" two out of ten.

Ok, so that is double, that is certainly bad. However, since we know that the majority of mages in Thedas are locked up within the Circles, that means that out of those four mages, three incidents would occur within the Circles with the Templars seconds away and civillians far away and only one would happen in the outside world.

However, without the Circle, both of those incidents would happen in the outside world.

 

Therefore, even if the Circle system creates more Abominations, which is unlikely, it would still only release 1 into the world whereas the alternative would release 2. Logically, the Circle system protects more than the alternative.

 

Also, Mage-Templar war spread widespread damage to most of Thedas. That screams failure to me. Even top Chantry figures admit that the system failed and needed change.

1 war in 900 years? That is a very good track record.

 

Authoritarian in what sense? Dalish Keepers appear to be more akin to tribal chieftains who rule through wisdom and knowledge rather than strict power and authority.

 

In the sense that we have yet to see a situation where a Keeper had checks and regulations or any way at all for one of his or her orders to be countermanded beyond individual decisions to abandon the clan. In DA2, we actually witness non-mage Elders of the clan leaving because they can't change Marethari's mind.

 

If the Keeper has complete power, then he is authoritarian, even if their rule is benevolent.

 

The Jaws of Hakkon cultists released Hakkon into the world, give credit where credit is due.

 

Would they have been able to do so were their mages in the Circles?

 

Perhaps, however applying the same mindset can't be worst than repeating more of the same. The mindset of the dalish and avvars concerning magic are at least worth trying rather than staying on a sinking ship. We haven't seen much of the Avvars, but this still confirms than alternative to the failed Circle System and its inherent mindset is possible and should be considered.

 

Does "repeating more of the same" include bringing the rebellion under Control and then another 900 years of peace?

Rebellions happen because being dissatisfied is the normal state of any population. However, the number of rebellions that were crushed and the status quo restored are countless. There is no reason for this one to be any different.

Besides, how would you even apply the Avvar methods to Orlais? You don't see how an Augur might be more loyal to a small clan than a mage to a nation of millions?

 

Rivain has their own faith; Tevinter follows its own version of the Chant. Also, the Mage-Templar War left the Chantry neutered, powerless and was threatening to collapse along with Andrastian society if not for the Breach and the Inquisition. Even the odds of reaching peace or a compromise at the Conclave was slim at best and the Templar/Mage leaders sent emissaries in their places rather than attend since they believed the Conclave was a trap.

 

The Chantry and Andrastian society on the brink of collapse? Quite the exageration.

The people of Ferelden, Orlais, Nevarra, the Anderfels, the Free Marches, Antiva and Rivain weren't marching into Chantries and slaugthering priests, they weren't converting en masse to a different religion, they weren't even upsetting the status quo.

There was civil war in Orlais but neither side was against the Chantry and the mages of Ferelden, Orlais and some Marcher cities were rebelling along with the Templars but the average commoner of every other nation in Thedas probably didn't even know something was happening, much less even consider the idea that his way of life was collapsing.

 

[MisterJB]

I must have missed those "death squads" while I was chasing down the abominations and blood mages

To be fair, there were some Templars who were killing the families of apostates, Ser Mettin, for instance.

Of course, there were also Templars who opposed them, such as Ser Agatha.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I must have missed those "death squads" while I was chasing down the abominations and blood mages

Support Orsino at the start of act 3 and a bunch of nobles give you a quest, with one part being trying to stop one of Meredith's Templar death squads

In that quest, the death squad was literally going to kill someone in broad daylight merely for giving food and a bed for a day to their Mage relative.

[raging_monkey]

I want to know if the Seeker ritual can be used on mages

it can but causes unstable emotional response, arguably creating what some fans call a ticking timebomb. An assesment I sadly agree with

[Vit246]

Instead of the Seeker Ritual, why not the methods of the Rivaini Seers? I realize the lore on this is sparse but its there and the principle is the same. A possession by a benign spirit that should render the host immune because like Wynne, there cannot be more than one spirit inhabiting a body.

[Daerog]

Instead of the Seeker Ritual, why not the methods of the Rivaini Seers? I realize the lore on this is sparse but its there and the principle is the same. A possession by a benign spirit that should render the host immune because like Wynne, there cannot be more than one spirit inhabiting a body.

I have no idea what was said in the last few pages, but I want to jump on this thought.

While the Rivaini are still a mystery, the Augur of the Avvar don't sound too different. Like the Seers, the Augurs don't want spirits in people for life. The spirit and person will just start bleeding into each other until there is no distinction, as was seen with Anders' deteriorating condition.

The Seeker method requires Tranquility with no gaurantee that a spirit will answer the supplicant. So, that's a problem, too.

As for having a spirit involved with one's person, a mage might as well give the okay to be mind controlled/manipulated by a "respectable" blood mage. It's part of Avvar culture, sure, but having your kids possessed and at the mercy of spirits seemed very wrong and unnecessary. However, I'm totally fine with the Circle, at least one can claim independent thought without any doubts there.

[Dean_the_Young]

Instead of the Seeker Ritual, why not the methods of the Rivaini Seers? I realize the lore on this is sparse but its there and the principle is the same. A possession by a benign spirit that should render the host immune because like Wynne, there cannot be more than one spirit inhabiting a body.

 

Besides the amorality of the description 'natural disaster?'

 

There's no such thing as a benign spirit- not really. They're mutable, and they change the person as much as they are changed themselves. Wynn was a happy accident, but there's nothing to indicate it was anything more than an accident, and legitimate questioning of whether she was objectively sane. Many people after DAO were annoyed with her because she was preachy and too devoted to the idea of the Circle- but was she preachy and idealistic because that's what Wynn was, or because that's what the spirit of Faith made her to be? We don't know what Wynn was like before, not really, but we do know that Wynn continually took leaps of, well, faith, and exhibited a consistent idealism that occasionally bordered on the questionable or even irrational- such as her decision to take steps that allowed for a ruinous mage rebellion she didn't actually agree with when thrust into circumstances.

 

And that was our best case scenario to date- our other 'benign' spirit was a spirit of Justice, a laudable concept if there was ever one. Except we saw what became of justice when merged with someone- Justice fixated on their fixations, warped and twisted, until itself was warped and twisted and desired great things regardless of the cost.

 

Why we should want such things- why we should want such passions to rule us, as the Rivaini witches do in their system- is a definite question to be raised in opposition.

[Xilizhra]

And that was our best case scenario to date- our other 'benign' spirit was a spirit of Justice, a laudable concept if there was ever one. Except we saw what became of justice when merged with someone- Justice fixated on their fixations, warped and twisted, until itself was warped and twisted and desired great things regardless of the cost.

Possessing a Grey Warden. IIRC, Justice can be controlled by Corypheus in Legacy, which strongly makes me think that Justice was altered, perhaps more heavily, by Anders' taint.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Support Orsino at the start of act 3 and a bunch of nobles give you a quest, with one part being trying to stop one of Meredith's Templar death squads

In that quest, the death squad was literally going to kill someone in broad daylight merely for giving food and a bed for a day to their Mage relative.

Oh, wow lets ignore fact that helping criminals is a crime and act as those people didn't do anything that would set law enforcers after them like breaking the law.

[Catilina]

Oh, wow lets ignore fact that helping criminals is a crime and act as those people didn't do anything that would set law enforcers after them like breaking the law.

Meredith break the law, with that she wants to rule the city. Templars exists to serve Man, and never to rule over him.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Meredith break the law, with that she wants to rule the city. Templars exists to serve Man, and never to rule over him.

Since when wnating to rule the city is breaking the law, viscount was dead and Meredith only took over him while stalling chosing of new one.Plus, there is no such rule that templars can't rule over man, only mages.

[Catilina]

Since when wnating to rule the city is breaking the law, viscount was dead and Meredith only took over him while stalling chosing of new one.Plus, there is no such rule that templars can't rule over man, only mages.

What a self-sacrifice!

[TheKomandorShepard]

What a self-sacrifice!

Yep, she sacrificed her life so she can protect Kirkwall from that pesky mages.If she didn't went nut and controlled mages under proper system Meredith would be a great asset.

[Lord of War]

Since when wnating to rule the city is breaking the law, viscount was dead and Meredith only took over him while stalling chosing of new one.Plus, there is no such rule that templars can't rule over man, only mages.

 

Patently untrue. Meredith basically ruled Kirkwall as a generalissimo after she overthrew the last legitimate viscount in the name of Orlesian imperialism. Not really surprising, since the Chantry was founded as the cornerstone of Orlesian imperial rule. 

[ShadowLordXII]

1.LoL, all you did is quote from WoT that only partially captures chantry view concering magic and disfigured it from "Magic is a corrupting influence in the world" into "Magic is pure evil". Once again, that magic is also a gift is part of the chant, same one that chantry message preaches and is source of their religion, it is even brought up during harrowing. So, once again you took only chantry's partial stance on magic, completly ignoring another half that debunked your false claims. Therfore, yes claming that chantry preaches "magic is pure evil" and then quoting chant that chantry preaches and refers to magic as "gift" contradicts your claim.

 

Nope, I quoted both key beliefs and point out that one is held up more than the other. If anyone is ignoring one half and upholding the other, that's the Chantry. I'm pointing out the apparent contradiction in Chantry teachings with Andraste's apparent stance, once more there is no contradiction in my point. The contradiction lies in the difference between Andraste's chant and the Chantry's core belief.

 

2.LoL x2, another time you deliberately misinterpret something is said, Corruption is the abuse of power for personal gain. Saying, that magic is corrupting influence in the world is no different saying that power is corrupting influence in the world, magic in fact gives you power over others therfore is strong factor that corrupts people.

 

Second, those don't have anything to do with chantry claming magic is pure evil only with fact that magic is incredibly dangerous.Mages aren't locked in circles because they are evil only because they are dangerous, something that chantry acknowledges. In fact even DG debunked what you have said in this interview.

 

The magic they hold is believed to be inherently evil and you don't have to hate someone to believe that they're/possess something that's inherently corrupting. Nothing's debunked.

 

Also that seekers suck at their job , doesn't equatate chantry claming that magic is evil only to seekers being inefficient.

 

It's another sign that the current system fails.

 

3.Magic is inherent problem, magic is incredibly dangerous to the point it threatens entire world that is a fact, you ignore another fact that chantry stance on magic is also it is useful.It isn't about good/evil in first place as you are trying to make it, it is about being dangerous and chantry policies exist to deal with that danger and ensure society and world is safe from them, nuclear bomb doesn't have to be evil to be treated as dangerous.

 

Wrong, magic is only a problem if not properly handled. Magic is no different from a weapon or fire; proper teaching and usage makes it a useful tool whereas inappropriate teaching and mishandling leads to disaster. The Chantry stance is overall an example of mishandling magic both in practice and on a fundamental level regarding mindset, one that required change.

 

4.It was mockery and hyperbole of that you completly disregarded massive amount of issues that dalish have with their system and data that proves that their approach is not by any mean healthy, and constantly bring huge problems and harm to their societies. That is fallacious argument in first place, as well you could use group where 9/10 mages gone wrong to group where 250/1000 gone wrong as evidence of first group having better approach with mages. Dalish have 2 mages per clan, we only saw only few dalish clan and most of them gone wrong harming/endangering their or other society , while single circle deals with hundreds (if not thousands) of mages and most of crisis situations in circles never left circles preventing them from harming society. 

 

 

Doesn't change that the Chantry stance is worst, where's your proof?

 

Second, actually there are very few mages that gone wrong due to Templars in da 2 or series overall, if i recall only Evelina turned into abomnation because of templars (and even then it doesn't excuse it as same could happen if she was attacked by bandits leaving society having to deal with abomnation), rest of mages succumbed to human vices and weakness ultimatly giving in corrupting infleunce of magic.

 

No one is denying that cirlce had problems, but problem wasn't that mages weren't free enough only that they had too much freedom, what is showed by that they managed practice blood magic in walls of the circle, or that Orsino had enough freedom to conspire with mage serial killer outside circle. Leliana is naive, Cassandra while tends to be more pragmatic is pretty idealistic as well, while Viviene is driven by self-interest while pragmatic.

 

 

I'll take Cassandra and Leliana's stance over your's any day. I can't imagine that you'd have a better alternative and again, these Chantry high ranking officials are willing to admit that problems mostly came from Chantry teaching.

 

Let's see:

-)We have keeper that seriously harmed own clan and people that weren't involved in his revenge, who created werewolf curse that lasted for centuries because of misplaced and irrational revenge.

Already acknowledged, that's not a reflection on Dalish policy.

-)We have first that killed innocent people in irrational rage just because she was tricked and started to kill humans without second thought.

After the Humans attacked her people and later she was deflected to other humans due to darkspawn manipulation. Get your facts straight. Not a reflection on Dalish policy.

-)We have foolish first, that was toying with blood magic and demons endangering not only her society but others in her recklessness, despite she proved she couldn't resist demons and yet foolishly insisted she can.As it wasn't enough she was playing with dangerous mirror that possibly killed her 2 friends while she didn't know what is on other side of said mirror and she was toying with that in the middle of the city.

Problems didn't emerge until her Keeper decided to be an idiot, Merrill was fine and only resorted to Blood Magic because her Keeper wouldn't help her.

-)We have dalish keeper that in name of love, sacrificed herself by letting demon possess her for piervusly mentioned foolish mage endangering her society and others. 

That's Maratheri's stupidity, not a reflection on Dalish actions.

-)We have dalish clan that summoned demon (Imshael), what lead to unleashing demon by random scrub that encountered demon, what lead to death of many people including said clan.

The Demon was contained until an outsider interfered with the barrier in which Imshael was sealed within.

-)Foolish dalish mage tried to use blood magic because of bravado, while only he paid price of his stupidity he still endangered other people.

Use names here, this case isn't fully familiar with me.

 

That makes pretty much 5/6 clans that we encountered where mages went wrong. 

 

One situation went wrong due to outside interference, Two incidents with one clan were due to personal failings, One was tricked by the darkspawn after already leaving her clan to seek justice, and then there's the revenge scheme. None of which invalids the beliefs of the Dalish and even then, the Chantry still comes off notoriously worst.

 

Chantry on the other hand has: Two Mage Revolts; Multiple incidents with circle mages resorting to blood magic or demon magic out of fear, stress, or desperation; A paranoid Templar seizing power over a secular entity without consequence from the Chantry and A grand civil war that nearly destroyed society, and rather than being problems caused by personal flaws, they are all directly indicting of the inherent flaws within the Chantry's beliefs regarding magic: Mainly the one where magic is inherently corrupting/bad/evil, etc. rather than a neutral part of the world (which it is).

 

And I'm done arguing with the Brick Wall.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Patently untrue. Meredith basically ruled Kirkwall as a generalissimo after she overthrew the last legitimate viscount in the name of Orlesian imperialism. Not really surprising, since the Chantry was founded as the cornerstone of Orlesian imperial rule. 

How, excatly Meredith ruling Kirkwall makes what i have said untrue? Im pretty sure, i said while she took control over after viscount died, she only took it temporarily while stalling choice of new viscount.Pretty sure, it was never stated to be illegal.Second, said viscount attacked Templars just because Divine pressured him into changing policy, while in fact Templars remained neutral about whole thing untill attacked by viscount.Third you use exceptional case to fuel your bias, fact was chantry didn't support Orlais because it by default supports Orlais only because Divine was close friend with Orlesian emperor.  

[Catilina]

How, excatly Meredith ruling Kirkwall makes what i have said untrue? Im pretty sure, i said while she took control over after viscount died, she only took it temporarily while stalling choice of new viscount.Pretty sure, it was never stated to be illegal.Second, said viscount attacked Templars just because Divine pressured him into changing policy, while in fact Templars remained neutral about whole thing untill attacked by viscount.Third you use exceptional case to fuel your bias, fact was chantry didn't support Orlais because it by default supports Orlais only because Divine was close friend with Orlesian emperor.  

What a self-scacrifice!

[Lord of War]

A good reasoning, in theory. But, as is said in DAI, it's easier to fight as war, as Andraste did, than to build a civilization that lasts for a thousand years, as the Chantry has.

 

I must protest this. The Chantry has not built a civilization as much as usurped and conquered several. The Chantry is a disease, designed by Drakon as a justification for his conquests, and was imposed from above by his heirs and successors. Civilizations are built by peoples and nations, and the Chantry leeches off of them.

[Catilina]

I must protest this. The Chantry has not built a civilization as much as usurped and conquered several. The Chantry is a disease, designed by Drakon as a justification for his conquests, and was imposed from above by his heirs and successors. Civilizations are built by peoples and nations, and the Chantry leeches off of them.

I not entirely agree. The Chantry gives hope to many people, but definitely in need of reform. I would not say that the Chantry is a disease. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

And I'm done arguing with the Brick Wall.

 

1. Once again im forced to point your fallacy, that magic is a gift is part of the chant and chant is core of the chantry believes and chantry spreads that believes, by mere fact chantry that preaches that magic is a gift debunks your ludicrous statment that chantry claims "magic is pure evil". So, basically you disregard something that chantry is preaching just because it doesn't validate your claims.

 

2.Again with purely fallacious reasoning, how chantry claims that magic is inherently evil if chantry claims magic can be used for good?Basically you disregarded everything i have said to you and kept going with that insane reasoning. That i say, that money are corrupting factor in the world doesn't equatate to me saying money are inherently evil, if you claim that i said that you misinterpreted what i said.So, once again you keep misinterpreting something to fuel your bias,

 

3.Not rly, it failed in the end because of divine not seekers that in fact would be able to mantain current system if not corrupted divine actions.

 

4.Eee, not rly magic is higly unstable in it's nature unlike technology.Unlike technology that can be taken from individual and controlled by collective magic is completely dependent on whims of mage.So plain and simple magic is always a problem both due to it's unstable and dangerous nature, but also due to humans being flawed.Pretty, as we can see with Dalish and Avvars that magic is always dangerous even if you teach mages magic is good in fact especially if you do that.

 

5.Yeah, said chantry officials created a mess they were unable to clean themselves so they were looking for someone competent to clean their mess.So, sorry but i wouldn't trust blindly authority figures that caused a mess due to their naivety and were unable clean it after.Plus, i have better alternative i already stated what those alternatives are.

 

6.I have literally pointed that dalish have horrible results when it comes to dealing with mages despite dealing with 2 mages per clan and examples of that gave below, while circle does much better job when it comes to protecting society from mages despite they deal with hundreds or more mages per circle. 

 

7.

-)No its not, but was effect of it.It is only one example of many and when connected one can clearly see a pattern here, 1 or 2 times coincidence 5/6 clans going wrong something is clearly wrong.

-)Humans didn't not attack her people only burned forest out to scare away her clan, two irrational rage is poor justification to allow her go on rampage and to start killing innocent people.As above consequence of dalish policy, in circle in first place she wouldn't have to endure world hardships nor she would be allowed to unleash her rage on innocent people.

-)Oh, but problems did emerge before that she has utterly proven that she was incapable of resisting a demon and yet insisted she will use blood magic and toy with demons.Just because she was saved twice from suffering consequences of her stupidity on her own , first time by Hawke while second by Marethari that took bullet for her doesn't mean she wasn't threat to others.

-)Oh yes, once again consequence of dalish policies, if she was in circle Merril would be made tranquil or killed moment she started to use blood magic, nor she would be allowed to toy with demon or mirror.

-)Demon was summoned by dalish and then unleashed by random guy that encountered demon, in circle civilian wouldn't be allowed to roam freely.That it  was freed was mere consequences of dalish clan toying with demon.

-)Valorin

 

Sorry, but those are excuses in order to justify dalish mages going wrong, just because some dalish mage is angry is poor excuse to burn their society or others in blind rage. Dalish policies and lack of restrictions caused and allowed those events to happen, while such troublemakers would be quickly dealth with in circle. nor they would be allowed to unleash their destructive activities on society.So, no chantry system that contains mages and prevents them from harming society as well allows them do deal with mages going wrong without it harming a society is much better, than tribal two mage per clan system that was constantly shown to go wrong and allows mages to unleash their destructive and harmful intentions onto society.

 

And all of the revolts were dealt with, hell first one wasn't even a revolt but RoA that served purpose of eliminating mages because they were corrupted, and they succeed.False, as i said before only one who did that due to fear of Templars was Evelina , rest just succumbed to vices or human flaws (pretty sure i already said that to you). 

 

Civil war wasn't nowhere near of destroying society in first place, it was destructive and harmful sure but nowhere near of collapsing society.Second civil war once again started only because corrupted Divine freed mages while Lambert had situation under control and contained mages preventing rebellion that wasn't in case until freed by divine mages voted to start a rebelion. 

   

 

 

What a self-scacrifice!

 

We have been here before.

   

[thats1evildude]

I must protest this. The Chantry has not built a civilization as much as usurped and conquered several. The Chantry is a disease, designed by Drakon as a justification for his conquests, and was imposed from above by his heirs and successors. Civilizations are built by peoples and nations, and the Chantry leeches off of them.

 

That's a rather biased interpretation, since people already believed in Andraste and he simply unified the faith. He stamped out worship of the Old Gods and some Alamarri gods, but the former is evil and the latter are non-existent.

[Iakus]

Support Orsino at the start of act 3 and a bunch of nobles give you a quest, with one part being trying to stop one of Meredith's Templar death squads

In that quest, the death squad was literally going to kill someone in broad daylight merely for giving food and a bed for a day to their Mage relative.

 

Ah, I prefer supporting Meredith at that point.  You get to see another side of her, and her motivations become a lot more understandable

it can but causes unstable emotional response, arguably creating what some fans call a ticking timebomb. An assesment I sadly agree with

Yeah, it does the same thing to the Seekers as well, apparently.  But they seem to be able to get past it, given time.  I wonder if mages can as well.