1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

I must protest this. The Chantry has not built a civilization as much as usurped and conquered several. The Chantry is a disease, designed by Drakon as a justification for his conquests, and was imposed from above by his heirs and successors. Civilizations are built by peoples and nations, and the Chantry leeches off of them.

What

The

Frak

 

Drakon united Orlais from a bunch of squabbling city states to bring peace to the region, and he tried (though failed) to ABOLISH the Grand Game.

 

He set up the Nevarran Accords because he realized mages needed protection from superstitious muggles.  And did this with the blessing of his bff Ameridan, the last Inquisitor AND A DALISH MAGE!

 

Why did so much of Thedas convert to the Chantry?  Because Drakon saved everyone's @sses during the Second Blight!  He saved the Anderfels and the Grey Wardens from darkspawn when Tevinter cut them loose to save themselves.  

[Iakus]

Possessing a Grey Warden. IIRC, Justice can be controlled by Corypheus in Legacy, which strongly makes me think that Justice was altered, perhaps more heavily, by Anders' taint.

Corypheus can control any blighted creature.  Given Anders and Justice are, to some degree, a single being, it's entirely possible Cory had some limited control over Justice

 

Meredith break the law, with that she wants to rule the city. Templars exists to serve Man, and never to rule over him.

Meredith didn't seem to be breaking the letter of the law (the spirit of it, most certainly) given Aveline's attitude.  More likely she was dragging her heels in the process to find a new viscount.

 

And if Templars shouldn't rule, then Alistair shouldn't be a candidate for the throne of Ferelden 

[Catilina]

We have been here before.

   

Now you surprised me.

[fhs33721]

Ah, I prefer supporting Meredith at that point.  You get to see another side of her, and her motivations become a lot more understandable

Fair enough. But then don't pretend that there aren't any Meredith sponsored death squads trying to kill normal people for minor crimes. Because there are, even if you never saw the content due to always siding with Meredith.

As for Merediths backstory: It does humanize her somewhat. It is sad and explains why she started to hate magic to begin with, but as far as I'm concerned doesn't change anything about the fact that she is a absolutely horrible human being now in her adult version.

[Lulupab]

Corypheus can control any blighted creature.  Given Anders and Justice are, to some degree, a single being, it's entirely possible Cory had some limited control over Justice

 

Meredith didn't seem to be breaking the letter of the law (the spirit of it, most certainly) given Aveline's attitude.  More likely she was dragging her heels in the process to find a new viscount.

 

And if Templars shouldn't rule, then Alistair shouldn't be a candidate for the throne of Ferelden 

 

Having Templar abilities is very different than being an actual Templar. Not everyone who can perfectly handle knives is an assassin.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Fair enough. But then don't pretend that there aren't any Meredith sponsored death squads trying to kill normal people for minor crimes. Because there are, even if you never saw the content due to always siding with Meredith.

As for Merediths backstory: It does humanize her somewhat. It is sad and explains why she started to hate magic to begin with, but as far as I'm concerned doesn't change anything about the fact that she is a absolutely horrible human being now in her adult version.

Minor crimes? Those people were aiding extremely dangerous fugitives what could cost a lot of lives, plus i think you have mistaken that Thedas is modern world and same type of soft punishments is used in Thedas.

[raging_monkey]

Ah, I prefer supporting Meredith at that point. You get to see another side of her, and her motivations become a lot more understandable
Yeah, it does the same thing to the Seekers as well, apparently. But they seem to be able to get past it, given time. I wonder if mages can as well.

the mage in asunder wouldn't have and I doubt anyone else could also source on munches being affected. I understand they were merely "deafened

[Catilina]

Minor crimes? Those people were aiding extremely dangerous fugitives what could cost a lot of lives, plus i think you have mistaken that Thedas is modern world and same type of soft punishments is used in Thedas.

And she had to ensure the law and order ...

 

[Lord of War]

Minor crimes? Those people were aiding extremely dangerous fugitives what could cost a lot of lives, plus i think you have mistaken that Thedas is modern world and same type of soft punishments is used in Thedas.

 

Christ. You're totally behind mage genocide anyway, right? Why not take it to its logical conclusion, and kill any and every family known to have produced mages? Anyone who has ever spoken to mage? Any purge is justified when you can bloviate about 'protecting the many," yeah?

[thats1evildude]

Christ. You're totally behind mage genocide anyway, right? Why not take it to its logical conclusion, and kill any and every family known to have produced mages? Anyone who has ever spoken to mage? Any purge is justified when you can bloviate about 'protecting the many," yeah?

 

I myself would prefer to avoid such a world, which is why we need the Circle of Magi and the templars. Functioning properly, both are meant to protect mages.

[Lord of War]

I myself would prefer to avoid such a world, which is why we need the Circle of Magi and the templars. Functioning properly, both are meant to protect mages.

 

A Circle-like institution for the education and organization of mages, yes. Templars, at least in their current, Chantry-run form, no.

[TheKomandorShepard]

And she had to ensure the law and order ...

And she did, or at least tried but that she had quite a number of templars unsuited to be templars and had to deal with restricting chantry policies that damaged her efficiency.Of course until she went nuts.

 

 

Christ. You're totally behind mage genocide anyway, right? Why not take it to its logical conclusion, and kill any and every family known to have produced mages? Anyone who has ever spoken to mage? Any purge is justified when you can bloviate about 'protecting the many," yeah?

And why on earth i would do that, what kind of benefit would it provide? Genocide is justified when benefits outweigh costs, and killing people for talking to the mage is completely pointless in contrast to killing criminals that aid another criminals, or individuals that are vast threat to world and society safety. .  

[Lord of War]

 

And why on earth i would do that, what kind of benefit would it provide? Genocide is justified when benefits outweigh costs, and killing people for talking to the mage is completely pointless in contrast to killing criminals that aid another criminals, or individuals that are vast threat to world and society safety. .  

 

Go **** yourself.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Go **** yourself.

Damn, your rational counter argument changed my PoV.

[thesuperdarkone2]

the mage in asunder wouldn't have and I doubt anyone else could also source on munches being affected. I understand they were merely "deafened

What proof do you have that he would 't have eventually recovered given that Karl was cured for a few seconds and would be tranquil soon and Pharamond was told that he was going to be made tranquil again.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Go **** yourself.

And people wonder why I don't have a high opinion of Templar supporters when they say genocide is good

[TheKomandorShepard]

And people wonder why I don't have a high opinion of Templar supporters when they say genocide is good

And people wonder i don't have a high opinion of mage supporters when they constantly misinterprete what was said and bring it down to good/evil in order to validate their bias. Pretty sure i never said genocide is good/bad only that it can be valid tactic depending on the case.

[Catilina]

And people wonder i don't have a high opinion of mage supporters when they constantly misinterprete what was said and bring it down to good/evil in order to validate their bias. Pretty sure i never said genocide is good/bad only that it can be valid tactic depending on the case.

I like your "tactic"... 

[thesuperdarkone2]

And people wonder i don't have a high opinion of mage supporters when they constantly misinterprete what was said and bring it down to good/evil in order to validate their bias. Pretty sure i never said genocide is good/bad only that it can be valid tactic depending on the case.

That's rich coming from the guy who supports killing all infant mages and death squads

[TheKomandorShepard]

I like your "tactic"...

Good, but puting it in quotes is completely unnecessary and random.

 

 

That's rich coming from the guy who supports killing all infant mages and death squads

How excatly that is a valid argument? I mean i pretty sure, we have been here before and i explained to you that trying to refute other person argument don't do the job by attacking on irrational basis person that made argument .

 

As well i could start attacking your argument on basis that you aren't vegetarian and therefore because you don't conform to my moral standarts your argument is invalid.

[Catilina]

Good, but puting it in quotes is completely unnecessary and random.

I am honored, that you teach me the correct use of quotation marks.

[Lord of War]

 

How excatly that is a valid argument? I mean i pretty sure, we have been here before and i explained to you that trying to refute other person argument don't do the job by attacking on irrational basis person that made argument .

 

As well i could start attacking your argument on basis that you aren't vegetarian and therefore because you don't conform to my moral standarts your argument is invalid.

 

If you really think there's no moral difference in being a vegetarian and advocating genocide as a "legitimate tactic," there's really nothing to say.

[Catilina]

I dare to hope that we was still talking about a fictional world ... 

[Dean_the_Young]

Possessing a Grey Warden. IIRC, Justice can be controlled by Corypheus in Legacy, which strongly makes me think that Justice was altered, perhaps more heavily, by Anders' taint.

 

So what?

 

Even if it's 'more' heavily, aren't only 'less' insanely-inclined mage elites reason enough to not want to adopt the practice?

[TheKomandorShepard]

I am honored, that you teach me the correct use of quotation marks.

Well , good for you.

 

 

If you really think there's no moral difference in being a vegetarian and advocating genocide as a "legitimate tactic," there's really nothing to say.

Morality is subjective, what you find wrong another person may find acceptable, what you find to be greater evil may be lesser evil to another person.Unlike you i verify actions by using reason not irrational "think about children, man" type of thinking.