1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Sports72Xtrm]

Anyways, the chantry doesn't get to dictate how mages test eachother. if the mages were reasonable, they'd give the apprentices reasonable options. They could do the Harrowing and succeed, fail and try the Avvar method, (possession for a while and judgement by spirits if proven volatile and killed in their sleep), or execution. I say that's a fair compromise.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Anyways, the chantry doesn't get to dictate how mages test eachother. if the mages were reasonable, they'd give the apprentice options. They could do the Harrowing and succeed, fail and try the Avvar method, (possession for a while and judgement by spirits if proven volatile and killed in their sleep), or execution. I say that's a fair compromise.

Except it does, as chantry and templars oversee them.Yeah, lets start to create abomnations and toy with demons/spirits on mages whims, i mean what can go wrong.

[Hellion Rex]

And let's hope the spirit doesn't get mutated while inhabiting the apprentice and then we have an uncontrollable abomination on the loose.

The Avvar method is a bad idea for the circles.

[Sports72Xtrm]

And let's hope the spirit doesn't get mutated while inhabiting the apprentice and then we have an uncontrollable abomination on the loose.

The Avvar method is a bad idea for the circles.

And yet the Avvar continue to thrive under its method. It's a proven method that helped their mages cull the volatile ones. In the past two games, I've only seen Circle Mages turn into deadly abominations and needed to be annulled. Since the Harrowing is proven ineffective and yet people cling to it because they're mired in tradition that is proven time and again unpragmantic, you shouldn't throw stones.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's a proven method that helped their mages cull the volatile ones. In the past two games, I've only seen Circle Mages turn into deadly abominations and needed to be annulled. Since the Harrowing is proven ineffective and yet people cling to it because they're mired in tradition, you shouldn't throw stones.

It hasn't been proven by any mean just because we didn't saw abomnation outbreak during 5 minutes we explored avvar culture doesn't equatate to it working.Same guys caused world threat twice because of their approach to magic and we discovered it during short time, so yeah talking about clinging to tradition.Plus, we saw plenty examples of toying with spirits and demons going wrong.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Except it does, as chantry and templars oversee them.Yeah, lets start to create abomnations and toy with demons/spirits on mages whims, i mean what can go wrong.

The Seekers don't seem to mind. It'd be hypocritical for Cassandra to say it's not a valid method since she became a seeker by "toying around with spirits".

[Hellion Rex]

And yet the Avvar continue to thrive under its method. It's a proven method that helped their mages cull the volatile ones. In the past two games, I've only seen Circle Mages turn into deadly abominations and needed to be annulled. Since the Harrowing is proven ineffective and yet people cling to it because they're mired in tradition that is proven time and again unpragmantic, you shouldn't throw stones.

It may work for the Avvar, who live remotely and wouldn't have too many mages in their group, but not for such a crowded place like a Circle. Way too many mages that could provoke or corrupt a spirit irreparably. And having multiple spirits inhabiting apprentices in one crowded Tower is a recipe for trouble.

[Sports72Xtrm]

It hasn't been proven by any mean just because we didn't saw abomnation outbreak during 5 minutes we explored avvar culture doesn't equatate to it working.Same guys caused world threat twice because of their approach to magic and we discovered it during short time.Plus, we saw plenty examples of toying with spirits and demons going wrong. 

The first human vaccines against viruses were based using weaker or attenuated viruses to generate immunity. If people thought like you did, we'd never have vaccines because we'd consider all viruses too dangerous to try.

[Sports72Xtrm]

It may work for the Avvar, who live remotely and wouldn't have too many mages in their group, but not for such a crowded place like a Circle. Way too many mages that could provoke or corrupt a spirit irreparably. And having multiple spirits inhabiting apprentices in one crowded Tower is a recipe for trouble.

How do you know there aren't a lot of mages among the Avvar? I've seen quite a lot of mages among Avvar holds and none of that only two mages per clan crap like the Dalish used. Not a whole lot of demons which I consider a positive. Last I checked, mages live remotely too.

 

Don't you think the ones who provoke the spirits will most likely be in danger of becoming abominations? They'll need to be dealt with eventually.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Seekers don't seem to mind. It'd be hypocritical for Cassandra to say it's not a valid method since she became a seeker by "toying around with spirits".

The Seekers are no greater danger due to not being a mage in first place, second seekers never stated to be possessed , third seekers kept that in secret even from the chantry.Plus, it wouldn't be hypocritical because Cassandra didn't know about it, didn't agree or disagree with practice, nor it would be equal to Avvar practice.

 

 

The first human vaccines against viruses were based using weaker or attenuated viruses to generate immunity. If people thought like you did, we'd never have vaccines because we'd consider all viruses too dangerous to try.

Yeah, let's go with fallacy here. In first place condition of mages is different as well threat they represent and matter they can't be cured.

[Hellion Rex]

How do you know there aren't a lot of mages among the Avvar? I've seen quite a lot of mages among Avvar holds and none of that only two mages per clan crap like the Dalish used. Not a whole lot of demons which I consider a positive. Last I checked, mages live remotely too.

Don't you think the ones who provoke the spirits will most likely be in danger of becoming abominations? They'll need to be dealt with eventually.

pretty sure they still have less in a tribe or clan than a given Circle though.

[Sports72Xtrm]

pretty sure they still have less in a tribe or clan than a given Circle though.

Ok how about Tevinter. Dorian says they use spirits as servants. What's your excuse now?

 

Almost every advanced magical society employs spirits except the Chantry and the Circle because they're superstitious idiots.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ok how about Tevinter. Dorian says they use spirits as servants. What's your excuse now?

 

Almost every advanced magical society employs spirits except the Chantry and the Circle because they're superstitious idiots.

Yes and every of those "advanced" societies (mostly tribal and small societies that have tendency to sacrifice self-preservation for sake of suicidal traditions)  caused world threat or constantly end with mage unleashing horrors on population.Chantry on other hand, no single world-threat.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Yes and every of those "advanced" societies (mostly tribal societies that have tendency to sacrifice self-preservation for sake of suicidal traditions)  caused world threat or constantly end with mage unleashing horrors on population.Chantry on other hand, no single world-threat.

Samson, Red Templars, Grand Cleric Calista, Knight Commander Martel, sister petrice and Lucius Corin. ok buddy. go back to your broken english rants.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Samson, Red Templars, Grand Cleric Calista, Knight Commander Martel, sister petrice and Lucius Corin. ok buddy. go back to your broken english rants.

 

Oh, boy none of them were world-threats, in fact those guys were only greater threat due to Corypheus actions (Tevinter mage, how suprising!).Corypheus was one that distributed red lyrium and created it on the surface.Plus, Catalista caused a threat mainly thanks to the blood mages and one that turned into abomnation.

[MisterJB]

Speaking as someone who has been on pills for years in order to control particularly strong emotions, this notion that the Rite of Tranquility is worse than death just sounds pretensious.

[midnight tea]

Speaking as someone who has been on pills for years in order to control particularly strong emotions, this notion that the Rite of Tranquility is worse than death just sounds pretensious.

 

...Well, there's a reason why nobody really treats strong emotions with lobotomy anymore.

 

And as someone who has problems with anxiety and over-sensitivity to various stimuli I think I understand how some emotions at certain level can be unbearable. But, personally at least, I don't really think I'd prefer to replace that with basically becoming numb to everything, including the disappearance of all my wants, needs and ambitions.

[thesuperdarkone2]

...Well, there's a reason why nobody really treats strong emotions with lobotomy anymore.

Not to mention pills are temporary.

[MisterJB]

...Well, there's a reason why nobody really treats strong emotions with lobotomy anymore.

Not that I am an expert or anything but I imagine it has to do with subjects being left unable to clean their own drool. Not an issue with Tranquility, your mental faculties are left intact.

 

 

And as someone who has problems with anxiety and over-sensitivity to various stimuli I think I understand how some emotions at certain level can be unbearable. But, personally at least, I don't really think I'd prefer to replace that with basically becoming numb to everything, including the disappearance of all my wants, needs and ambitions.

I'd consider it.

 

Not to mention pills are temporary.

 

Oh please, I'm addicted. You don't want to see me after spending two days without taking them and yes, speaking from personal experience.

[midnight tea]

Not that I am an expert or anything but I imagine it has to do with subjects being left unable to clean their own drool. Not an issue with Tranquility, your mental faculties are left intact.

 

Actually, it's established in the game that Tranquils can't really do anything themselves unless they're said to do so or supervised. They won't even dress themselves on their own, or protect themselves when someone rips their skull out to create devices like Oculara.

 

 

I'd consider it.

 

Like I said - I think I understand. And I'd understand if someone would prefer to go through rite or debilitating procedure just to make some of the things go away. Thing is that it's established in the game that the Rite Of Tranquility is severely abused. It's not just used on people who genuinely have problems, but on anybody whom the Chantry deems a problem, and they can be as trivial as sending love letters to sweetheart outside of the Circle.

 

And yes, in cases where the mage isn't actually genuinely helped, I do indeed see it as fate worse than death. It's worse than becoming a slave, because the Tranquil is robbed of much of their sense of individuality and - since nobody treats them as a person - they end up being used by Circles as basically free labor and means for them to make money off their work (like creating enchants). And they can't protest that, they can't do anything on their own, because hey - Tranquil.

[Lulupab]

Lobotomy is not a particularly new practice. Science has come a very long way since then. We can do the same thing with electricity. Now if we decided to use this new Lobotomy again you would only be physically hindered temporarily then fully recover aka clean your own drool. The Shock would leave the body paralyzed for a while but it will cause a permanent memory loss and will "fix" the mind of psychopaths. But you don't see it making a come back. Shock treatment is very rarely used legally as a sort of mini-lobotomy. They never go all the way but they know exactly what will happen which is what I said above.

[Iakus]

That's how they discovered the Right of Tranquility. The seekers wanted to make a mage seeker but found it only made them tranquil.

http://dragonage.wik..._of_Tranquility

When a mage attempted to join their order and failed.

 

They already knew Tranquility could be permanent of the ritual failed.  It was when a mage failed that they learned Tranquility also took away their magic.

[fhs33721]

Speaking as someone who has been on pills for years in order to control particularly strong emotions, this notion that the Rite of Tranquility is worse than death just sounds pretensious.

Well, the only two samples of people who were made tranquil and then returned to normal, literally begged for death over being made tranquil again. So, that doesn't make it look very favorable.

Also controlling particularily strong emotions with pills does not even seem close to the level of being stripped of all human emotion, dreams and desires.

[Sports72Xtrm]

When a mage attempted to join their order and failed.

 

They already knew Tranquility could be permanent of the ritual failed.  It was when a mage failed that they learned Tranquility also took away their magic.

I don't think if they did anything different, a mage would suddenly become a seeker. Pharamond reversed his tranquility by having his mind touched by a spirit or demon, didn't see him report that he could then be immune to possession, in fact, he did get possessed. Only thing different for a mage is the reversal of tranquility like seekers were able to do. But that's where the similarities end. They'd still be possessed or able to be possessed. I don't see how you can correlate how the seeker ritual is applicable to mages to gain the same results in the first place when Pharamond clearly stated in his report that it does nothing but reverse the tranquility.

[Lunatica]

Apparently the difference between mages and non mages is an artificial construct generated by Solas

So yeah local elf  ruins everything