177 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

I think the effort to create a spectacle of fanservice for female players with Thane was interesting, in a strange sort of way.

Kasumi and the game's camera angles seem insistent on convincing me that Jacob is also God's gift to women.

[SnakeCode]

Another one of these? Seriously?

[Quarian Master Race]

Another one of these? Seriously?

this is a suitable response to 99.9% of the threads in this section.

[Laughing_Man]

I think the effort to create a spectacle of fanservice for female players with Thane was interesting, in a strange sort of way.

Kasumi and the game's camera angles seem insistent on convincing me that Jacob is also God's gift to women.

 

Ignoring the obvious success of the Jacob fanservice initiative, what do you mean by "interesting"?

Would you say that Thane was at least somewhat appealing from a female perspective?

[Grieving Natashina]

I know you were addressing Lady, but the question seemed open.

I didn't find Thane even somewhat appealing. He was too much of a walking tragedy for one. It was out of hand. Secondly, it has what I feel is the #1 most awkward timing for a flirt in the entire ME series. To paraphase:

Thane: "My wife was killed due to my career as an assassin, and my son is estranged from me. PS, I'm dying."

Shepard's actual summation text for the flirt after that info dump: "I want you Thane."

Me: What in the....? Er, thanks but no thanks?

I can only speak for myself and you know I'm not trying to speak for others. But I never found that kind of story appealing. I could give a rat's oftentimes what's considered "fan service," because most of the time it's pretty subjective. I don't mind a character being that way, if they are written with some freaking balance.

A dead wife, a terminal illness, an estranged son. I'd like to meet the writers that thought that was a good idea. Let's not forget that the Drell are a nearly extinct race due to draining their own resources recklessly. Thane even says that billions died on their homeworld. So I have an enviromental message on top on everything else going on with the character. Jeeze Lousie.

I like a lot of Thane's personality, but I'd never care to romance him.

[Sartoz]

                                                                                       <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

I prefer Asaris to remain Asari. Period. Anything else is utter nonsense.

 

Andromeda will have new aliens and as three comes after two, people here will complain they are not Transgender, Homosexual,  Lesbian, male, female or neutral enough for their tastes.

 

How about something more radical? How about just enjoying what Bio artists give us? Bio rep(s) themselves mentioned that creating new alien species is hard work. I believe that. Both the writers and artists work together to come up with something they can work with. 

 

So far, Bio has not disappointed me.

 

What makes more sense is the ability to customize our protag to our taste. Hell, imagine if the CC offers the possibility of creating an Asari, or Quarian?... too bad you can't do anything about the VO,,, 'cause that is definitely a limitation.

 

 

 

 

[Acno777]

I'm getting a feeling of Deja Vu.

You probably get a lot of those in this forum.

[LinksOcarina]

You had one already:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=b2Zs9_oxnSA

 

At least in terms of attitude and such.

 

[Han Shot First]

There are multiple dialogues that generalized the Asari as beautiful being. The novels, the game. Shepard said them multiple of times regardless of the sex, Ashley, Kaidan, Tali, James, Ken, Krogans, the entire universe view them as a species filled with beautiful women and they are universally attractive. Regardless of some random game CGI mechanics, "Asari = Beautiful" are fixed.

The Asari being viewed as attractive by nearly every species was one of the sillier aspects of the lore. It makes sense for humans or Quarians, given their physical similarities to each other, but much less so for species like Krogan or Salarians. I wouldn't want an outright retcon in Andromeda, but wouldn't mind Bioware quietly backing away from it by providing no further examples of the less humanoid species being paired with Asari.

Regardless of how they were described in the lore however, the majority of Asari NPCs in the games were not attractive. The argument that they need a redesign because they were too attractive in the games is a rather weak one.

And they are aliens, not human females who are painted blue with scales and tentacles nor were they supposed to be perceived with the same way human males view the females of their species. They are also the only race with the capabilities to alter brain functions to everyone they met.

That the Asari had alien-looking scales or pores and tentacles instead of hair actually counters the argument that their character design was too fanservicey and needs to be reworked for Andromeda. Those aren't features most people would find attractive, and they were a rather obvious attempt by Bioware to give them some alien features that wouldn't make them pure fanservice. They might have been inspired by Captain Kirk's green alien babes, but Bioware didn't follow the trope to the letter.

After ME3 they also are no longer the most humanoid of the alien species in the games. They've been surpassed by the Quarians.

While it is true that they also have some features of human women that people might find attractive, those features had to be there or a LI from that species would have been completely unappealing. If they were so alien that looked like the xenomorphs from the Alien franchise no one outside of few rule 34 types would be interested in that character as a romance option.

Garrus perhaps can be put forward as an argument against that, but I think his fandom was due entirely to the voice actor, was unique, and I doubt many people would be enthusiastic about Turian LIs in general. I thought his romance arc was more gross than endearing personally.

Honestly, I thought it was odd that Banshee barely look human as their pre-reaper form. In fact, more alien on their own than the ones merged with another species (Brutes/Cannibal). Its not really that impossible that the Asari could alter everyone's mental state to view anything about them with something visually pleasing, familiar and less alien to the viewer. It is scifi after all.

Indoctrination and the Asari mind meld ability might make an ability to brain wash someone plausible within the game universe's rules, but it wouldn't explain why non-Asari doctors are able to treat Asari patients, why Asari can wear human clothing with no problem, or why people who've never met Asari, which includes probably 90% of humanity since they haven't left Earth, don't see Asari in their true forms while using the web, or watching the news. Mass Effect may be Sci Fi, but just because it is fiction doesn't mean the writers don't have to worry about giving their story some verisimilitude.

That the Asari already have some rather fantastical elements in their lore, like mind-melding or a romantic compatibility with any species, is probably a good argument against the writers needing to give them more space magic. I think they're at capacity.

In any case the argument in favor of shape-shifting actually being a thing is based on a misunderstanding of that bachelor party dialogue, and calls for the Asari to be retconned into shape-shifters are usually motivated by schadenfreude. I don't think it is a coincidence that the loudest voices in support of that are usually from players who are vocal in their dislike for the Asari in general, Liara in particular, or both.

It is not unlike prior calls for Tali's reveal to be a tentacle-monster. It wasn't truly that people found a very alien design interesting, they just wanted to log into the BSN, eat popcorn, and watch the Tali /Quarian fandom go apeshit.

[Laughing_Man]

...

It is not unlike prior calls for Tali's reveal to be a tentacle-monster. It wasn't truly that people found a very alien design interesting, they just wanted to log into the BSN, eat popcorn, and watch the Tali /Quarian fandom go apeshit.

 

Indeed. That said, the Quarian situation is somewhat different. That "reveal" shouldn't have been as boring and uninspired as it was.

[Fade9wayz]

We obviously really need new information. This place is starting to look like a fish tank with neurotic goldfishes swimming in circles. Necroed threads, necroed threads in the disguise of new ones, endless variations of the same thread...

[ZipZap2000]

We obviously really need new information. This place is starting to look like a fish tank with neurotic goldfishes swimming in circles. Necroed threads, necroed threads in the disguise of new ones, endless variations of the same thread...

You're nude here aren't you?

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

The drell (Thane ). I doubt drell will be present anywhere in Andromeda, let alone be on the team.

 

So far leaked information (still questionable) states we will have 7 squadmates and at least one may be a synthetic, while the other confirmed leaks indicate two team members that include a female human and male krogan. I think we can be certain that a male human and an asari will also be present on the team. I doubt spots 6 or 7 will feature a drell as salarians and turians are far more popular. And while I would welcome a quarian male as a romance option, I would only do so if the quarians had regained a healthy immune system and there was no underlying creepiness that I have to subject my love interest to possible death by disease just by simply sharing a kiss (although i'd like to know how a levo can transmit a disease to a dextro since their proteins do not match up).

 

 

 

I know you were addressing Lady, but the question seemed open.

I didn't find Thane even somewhat appealing. He was too much of a walking tragedy for one. It was out of hand. Secondly, it has what I feel is the #1 most awkward timing for a flirt in the entire ME series. To paraphase:

Thane: "My wife was killed due to my career as an assassin, and my son is estranged from me. PS, I'm dying."

Shepard's actual summation text for the flirt after that info dump: "I want you Thane."

Me: What in the....? Er, thanks but no thanks?

I can only speak for myself and you know I'm not trying to speak for others. But I never found that kind of story appealing. I could give a rat's oftentimes what's considered "fan service," because most of the time it's pretty subjective. I don't mind a character being that way, if they are written with some freaking balance.

A dead wife, a terminal illness, an estranged son. I'd like to meet the writers that thought that was a good idea. Let's not forget that the Drell are a nearly extinct race due to draining their own resources recklessly. Thane even says that billions died on their homeworld. So I have an enviromental message on top on everything else going on with the character. Jeeze Lousie.

I like a lot of Thane's personality, but I'd never care to romance him.

 

 

Ok! So since I have quoted you and I know you were responding about Thane (not drell in general); as for Thane in particular and to add a bit more to the creep factor:

 

Thane's writer (Chris L'Etoile) really wanted to offset Thane's very human appearance and sex appeal with an alien mind. Unfortunately, it is this biological mindset (eidetic memory) + horribly tragic backstory that keeps Thane bound in an unpleasant cycle of spasmodic awkwardness. It, at least to me, was a very uncomfortable romance. Still, I like Thane more than the other options.

 

You know I wonder sometimes about how the ME team perceived its female audience, and this wondering has me slightly worried about future romance content made by them (particularly romance content geared towards women who like men).

 

I know back in 2005-2013 the Mass Effect writers took into consideration that their main audience was male, and thus in Mass Effect (and SWtOR as well) females have less romance options than males.

 

The Mass Effect writers most certainly know that in other forms of entertainment (songs, movies, novels, and tv shows) that focuses mainly on romance, such material is typically geared towards the female audience. So I know they know women enjoy romance.

 

 

So even though it was logical for them to provide more romance material in the ME trilogy for the male audience, which is in the majority; why, with the few options provided to femShep, would they ever deem it appropriate to have those romances be so unsavory (in some cases) and so awkward. Why would they think a woman enjoys having men tell her she is not in any capacity attractive to them (ME2 Garrus), or act as if she is bothersome/intrusive (ME2 Jacob) or completely replaceable and forgettable (ME3 Jacob), or shows interest in her because she reminds them of their previous lover, a lover with whom they are still obsessed (ME2 Thane)- to paraphrase another awkward Thane conversation:

 

Thane: I was just having a memory of my wife's tongue flickering in my mouth and it is quite enjoyable to spend the evening alone with such memories, don't you think? Anyway, how are you today siha?

 

 

Shepard: Umm???

[Grieving Natashina]

You're nude here aren't you?

Awesome typo.

@Star I am personally not worried about the romance content turning out as lacking for female PCs as it was in the original trilogy. The devs and some of the writers even admitted that they didn't understand some of their female audience as well as they should have. It was a growth period as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to stress until I get a lot more information about the game. I also liked Garrus' romance arc myself. He may have started out not being physically attracted to Shep, but that changed over time. It started with friendship and camaraderie. But eh, with all conversations about established LIs, YMMV of course.

I'm 100% with you about Thane. That comment about his photographic memory was another thing that I thought was squicky. I didn't romance Jacob but that's a family name that some of my relatives have. I didn't know about "The Prize" or the cheating in ME3 until after I had finished the series for the first time. Some of my buddies on the forums were all too eager to fill me in.

[ZipZap2000]

Awesome typo.

 

I thought I was fishing for an excuse to say breeding request accepted?

 

 

Aaaaand now its ruined. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I thought I was fishing for an excuse to say breeding request accepted?
 
 
Aaaaand now its ruined.

Oh, my dear Krogan loving friend. I'm sure you'll get more chances over the summer.

[ZipZap2000]

Oh, my dear Krogan loving friend. I'm sure you'll get more chances over the summer.

 

Summer? It was 6 degrees here this morning.

[Grieving Natashina]

Summer? It was 6 degrees here this morning.

Picky picky picky.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

Awesome typo.

@Star I am personally not worried about the romance content turning out as lacking for female PCs as it was in the original trilogy. The devs and some of the writers even admitted that they didn't understand some of their female audience as well as they should have. It was a growth period as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to stress until I get a lot more information about the game. I also liked Garrus' romance arc myself. He may have started out not being physically attracted to Shep, but that changed over time. It started with friendship and camaraderie. But eh, with most conversations about LIs, YMMV of course.

I'm 100% with you about Thane. That comment about his photographic memory was another thing that I thought was squicky. I didn't romance Jacob but that's a family name. I didn't know about "The Prize" or the cheating until after I had finished the series for the first time.

 I certainly hope they have learned something.  Thanemancers went berserk after ME3, so I doubt there will be anymore terminal love interests.

 

 

With Garrus my issue was he's saying he is not attracted to humans because of body shape and hair, but that same writer confused his own lore when he made it very obvious in LotSB that Garrus (who has never considered cross-species relations) was attracted to asari and quarians. I don't think I need to tell you how much asari, quarians, and humans resemble one another and how very different they look from turians. It makes Garrus come off as nitpicking, petty, and shallow to the point that an asari simply having a fringe (a fringe that is absent in female turians, they have bald heads) was attractive to turians but because a human did not have this fringe they were unattractive (maybe styling the hair in large cornrows and ponytail would help). And let's not forget that Garrus doesn't seem to even be attracted to femShep's persona or is "hero" crushing on femShep like Tali was over maleShep. He felt nothing outside of friendship for femShep at all, and she comes off as pushy and creepy again, well at least to me in ME2. It got better in ME3, but for me the damage was already done in ME2.

 

 

Because Thane is so anatomically similar to a human I know he was physically attracted to femShep more than Garrus. And I certainly wasn't complaining about his looks (good job BioWare on that part).

 

 

I certainly hope most people understand the issues with Jacob.

 

 

Kaidan as my direct subordinate, I just cannot bring myself to go there in ME1 and then sacrifice Ashley because I know I killed her for a selfish reason, not because it was the appropriate strategic decision.  Come ME3 and I am in no mood to get involved with Kaidan after he poked and prodded me incessantly about Cerberus. 

Modifié par StarSprinkled, 28 mai 2016 - 11:25 .

[ZipZap2000]

Picky picky picky.

 

 

You can't serve Salarian kidney at room temperature when your living room is colder than the inside of your fridge. 

[Grieving Natashina]

@ Star Sorry for the lack of direct quotes. It's working about 1/2 the time at the moment.

Wow. I had a completely different view about the Garrus romance. "This is about us." He made it pretty clear imho that he was interested in Shep because of her personality. It could have been a cultural thing for turians not to get with humans after the war. He might not have considered it before until he met someone he really respected as much as Shepard. I also suspect that the fringe comment was simply a screw up by one of the writers. I don't think it was any more complicated than that. It's not like that's the only time that happened in the ME trilogy.

I don't agree with your point of view on Garrus, but to each their own. I don't think either of us are right or wrong in our viewpoints here. I agree with you in that I doubt that the ME team is going to have another terminally ill LI. I never want to see that bit of nonsense for either gender in a BW game ever again.

You can't serve Salarian kidney at room temperature when your living room is colder than the inside of your fridge.

Sure you can. Start the car and cover the liver in foil. Let it warm on the engine block until it feels right, then viola! Dinner is served.

[ZipZap2000]

@ Star Sorry for the lack of direct quotes. It's working about 1/2 the time at the moment.

Wow. I had a completely different view about the Garrus romance. "This is about us." He made it pretty clear imho that he was interested in Shep because of her personality. It could have been a cultural thing for turians not to get with humans after the war. He might not have considered it before until he met someone he really respected as much as Shepard. I also suspect that the fringe comment was simply a screw up by one of the writers. I don't think it was any more complicated than that. It's not like that's the only time that happened in the ME trilogy.

I don't agree with your point of view on Garrus, but to each their own. I don't think either of us are right or wrong in our viewpoints here. I agree with you in that I doubt that the ME team is going to have another terminally ill LI. I never want to see that bit of nonsense for either gender in a BW game ever again.

Sure you can. Start the car and cover the liver in foil. Let it warm on the engine block until it feels right, then viola! Dinner is served.

 

I was talking about breakfast. The Salarian's usually dead by dinner and we want him alive....the fear adds spice.

[SKAR]

I have seen threads and posts about having an all male race, lamenting that the writers did not create asari with males and females, and threads about the possibility of transgenders in the next installment of ME.


While this will not cover all the above inquiries and concerns (particularly in regards to transgenderism), I do think it would be an excellent idea for BioWare to show an asari or asari that do not conform to the assembly-line-manufactured space babe ideal. The team did say they were creating more diversity within various species' looks. Perhaps we can see some asari that appear more androgynous to us humans.

Even among us human females, there are some of us born with very little breast development, if any at all. Some of us are very tall, have very defined muscles, or have actively built up our muscles, and some of us have deeper voices. Some of us have masculine faces.

Certainly we could see asari that resemble:



http://kolakis.devia...Asari-297946860

As Liara stated in ME- she is not precisely a woman, male and female has no real meaning to asari, they have maternal instinct, but are not female in the sense that other species (like our own) understand it.


So now a couple of questions:

1 Would you be opposed to seeing diversity, of this kind, among asari?

2 Most important (this is the BSN after all) would you romance an androgynous asari?



*Apologies ahead of time if I have offended anyone as it was not intended



Edit: In case it wasn't clear: I am not asking for all asari to be androgynous, just some to be portrayed that way.

transgender asari. That'll be the day. I'm pretty sure they don't have the same gender issues we have.

[SirGladiator]

Asari are beautiful female-like aliens.  Beauty is good, femininity is good, the people who don't like attractive women are free to enjoy the various other races/species in the game, but for the vast majority of us, we like the Asari, we like attractive women, and we want them to stay that way.

[Lady Artifice]

Ignoring the obvious success of the Jacob fanservice initiative, what do you mean by "interesting"?

Would you say that Thane was at least somewhat appealing from a female perspective?

 

I think they made a plausible start of creating a character to appeal to the female demographic, in that Thane personifies the badass anti-hero with a tragic past that tends to be a hallmark of romantic stories. I can see what they were going for with some of the emotional elements of his character, his regret, his love for his son, and the idiosyncratic ability to conjure up an exactly memory of anything that ever happened.

 

After all the dumb husband/neglected wife tv shows out there, what writers don't seem to think a guy with a perfect memory is every woman's dream come true?

 

Mostly I just agree with Nat that he was a tragedy dump. With both he and Jack, I think they wanted to be certain that they made the character's misfortunes significant enough, and maybe laid it on a bit thick.

 

As for character design, I'm not sure. I don't find him good looking in that way, but part of that is probably me just not "getting it." If I find characters with nonhuman skin tones or frilly/spiky/spotty decorations appealing, it's usually in spite of those qualities rather than them being contributing factors. For example, I don't "get" the perception/allure of asari as fanservice either, and I don't think that would have changed if there were male Asari.