177 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

@Star Thanks for the link. However, don't take that at face value and unless BioWare confirms it, it's only speculation at this point. And nothing in the video said that the vorcha/collector race was the only new race for the game. I don't trust videos like that after the German Gamespot Magazine article that came out about 6 months before DA:I's release. They got almost everything wrong, except that it was taking place in Orlais (which it does in part) and that the Big Bad was a Darkspawn. The rest was pulled out of their keister.

For all we know, someone on the ME:A writing staff could have brushed up on his/her Heinlein and added a more androgynous race.

I edited my post, in case anyone read it. It sounded kinda aggressive and I don't want to kick this hornets nest any harder than it's been kicked.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

@Star Thanks for the link. However, don't take that at face value and unless BioWare confirms it, it's only speculation at this point. And nothing in the video said that the vorcha/collector race was the only new race for the game. I don't trust videos like that after the German Gamespot Magazine article that came out about 6 months before DA:I's release. They got almost everything wrong, except that it was taking place in Orlais (which it does in part) and that the Big Bad was a Darkspawn. The rest was pulled out of their keister.

For all we know, someone on the ME:A writing staff could have brushed up on his/her Heinlein and added a more androgynous race.

I edited my post, in case anyone read it. It sounded kinda aggressive and I don't want to kick this hornets nest any harder than it's been kicked.

The earliest and most legitimate leak stated we are only getting 2 new races, this one ( which resembles the ones we see in trailer) and another yet to be seen one that looks like

Spoiler

rock golems

 

I probably should not have responded to that poster and in the process started a stupid fight myself. So, I will just end it off with this:

 

I would like to see asari like this

 

And like this

 

 

a little less in the teetees

[SKAR]

The earliest and most legitimate leak stated we are only getting 2 new races, this one ( which resembles the ones we see in trailer) and another yet to be seen one that looks like

Spoiler

rock golems

I probably should not have responded to that poster and in the process started a stupid fight myself. So, I will just end it off with this:

I would like to see asari like this


And like this



a little less in the teetees

that second purple asari. Great body. That's how fem protag needs to look. An no less.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

that second purple asari. Great body. That's how fem protag needs to look. An no less.

Got a female bodybuilder kink huh? 

 

Male protag needs to look similar to the first asari. Get some of the not really hot-lesbian-action going during romances, because you'd be a dude that is slim and sexy and soft with small moobs, hasn't worked out much, except with his keyboard and hand

 

Actually I wouldn't mind the male protagonist looking more androgynous, I might even roll one:

 

 

[ZipZap2000]

that second purple asari. Great body. That's how fem protag needs to look. An no less.

No it isn't.

[Grieving Natashina]

I happily support the idea of an androgynous race. Or one that changes gender depending upon the circumstances. I like the fan art, but I can't agree that changing the Asari is the right move. Like I said, we don't know if the vorcha/collector race (Khet according to leaks,) is the only new one.

I really think the races of MW need to be left alone in terms of previously established lore. I'd personally be a little unhappy if they did that. With very few exceptions, I don't like out and outright retconning races/lore. Particularly in a sci-fantasy that involves a new galaxy. No need to change the lore of an existing race when the writers have the freedom to invent anything they feel like.

I don't understand and I apologize if it seems rude, but why couldn't BioWare just make a new race? Why is your heart set on the Asari and won't consider another option?

I don't hate Asari as individuals at all (their government can kiss my pucker,) but I'm not sure why it has to be that particular race.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

I happily support the idea of an androgynous race. Or one that changes gender depending upon the circumstances. I like the fan art, but I can't agree that changing the Asari is the right move. Like I said, we don't know if the vorcha/collector race (Khet according to leaks,) if it's the only one. Nothing personal, but I think you seem to have a view that it has to be an either/or situation and that's a great way to stress yourself out.

I really think the races of MW need to be left alone in terms of previously established lore. I'd personally be a little unhappy if they did that. With very few exceptions, I don't like out and outright retconning races/lore. Particularly in a sci-fantasy that involves a new galaxy. No need to change the lore of an existing race when the writers have the freedom to invent anything they feel like.

I don't understand and I apologize if it seems rude, but why couldn't BioWare just make a new race? Why is your heart set on the Asari and won't consider another option?

I don't hate Asari as individuals at all (their government can kiss my pucker,) but I'm not sure why it has to be that particular race.

So just a few androgynous looking asari changes the whole race?

 

I honestly think the lore can be expanded. If we are to believe asari resemble human females and so do quarians, then we cannot undo Tali's photo shop, or have a muscular femPC. The femPC must look like asari because the codex says human females and asri look alike. If human females can look androgynous then by extension so can asari.

 

Anyway, I hope BioWare will take it into consideration. I am far from the 1st person to suggest this.

 

There have been far more radical ( ) suggestions such as to make the asari lesbians and not heteronormatize anymore, showing them in relationships with female aliens only.

[Grieving Natashina]

So just a few androgynous looking asari changes the whole race?

I honestly think the lore can be expanded. If we are to believe asari resemble human females and so do quarians, then we cannot undo Tali's photo shop, or have a muscular femPC. The femPC must look like asari because the codex says human females and asri look alike. If human females can look androgynous then by extension so can asari.

Anyway, I hope BioWare will take it into consideration. I am far from the 1st person to suggest this.

There have been far more radical ( ) suggestions such as to make the asari lesbians and not heteronormatize anymore, showing them in relationships with female aliens only.

I think we have a misunderstanding here.

I wa confused as to whether or not you want them appearing androgynous or have their gender be androgynous (I.e not monogendered.) That's more of what I was trying (and apparently failed) in asking. The former would change the lore, the latter would give more variety in appearance. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing an Asari that looks like a young David Bowie. I'm also okay with more muscular Asari that isn't a flipping stripper. As far as I can tell, an androgynous looking Asari doesn't contradict the lore.

Reading your response up there, it's the latter and I'm fine with that. They are your favorite race as far as I can tell, which is reason enough for this request. I was confused and that was on me. I misread your suggestions and I sincerely apologize for that.

I know you're not the first person to suggest this and I know that it's not an unreasonable or crazy request. You are coming off as pretty defensive and that wasn't my goal to make you feel that way. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of putting folks on the defensive. I try to come across as a nice lady for the most part and sometimes I fall flat on my face.

I'm not trying to troll or harass you or tell you that you have a horrible idea if this just about looks. Trust me, like you, I've read much more unreasonable requests over the last month. This is just another request for a preferred look for the race and I should have re-read your original post.

The Dude Abides.

[SKAR]

Got a female bodybuilder kink huh?

Male protag needs to look similar to the first asari. Get some of the not really hot-lesbian-action going during romances, because you'd be a dude that is slim and sexy and soft with small moobs, hasn't worked out much, except with his keyboard and hand

Actually I wouldn't mind the male protagonist looking more androgynous, I might even roll one:

fit ripped women. Yeah. Bulging Arnold women. no thanks. My preferred taste in women is muscular but athletically built. Like Rhonda Rousey or the women in crossfit. That being said it really doesn't matter what a woman looks like. We all have our types but we shouldn't be restricted by that. Also about the male protag being skinny, NO. But You're joking.

[Laughing_Man]

There have been far more radical ( ) suggestions such as to make the asari lesbians and not heteronormatize anymore, showing them in relationships with female aliens only.

 

And now I'm reminded of that legendary post that claimed that a relationship between M!Shepard and Liara is Rape.

That's also not radical, right?

[Fade9wayz]

You're nude here aren't you?

Nope, got the requisite fishtail and seashell bra

[ZipZap2000]

Nope, got the requisite fishtail and seashell bra

Breeding request accepted.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

And now I'm reminded of that legendary post that claimed that a relationship between M!Shepard and Liara is Rape.

That's also not radical, right?

Why don't you read my response to a similar particular claim yourself (http://forum.bioware...ten/?p=20272598)   : I was not kind, but the poster was still insistent about the "romancing Liara  is child sex abuse claim". If that is not what you are talking about, however... wait what does rape have to do with lesbianism or the claim that BioWare heteronormatized the asari?

 

 

I don't think its radical to think asari favor females over males, and if we are to believe they are females exactly as human female are then it makes sense that they would instinctively be attracted to females having evolved for tens of thousands of years to do so. Since they are not females like human females though, it makes sense they are attracted to many types, and I hope asari come in many types in Andromeda so I can be attracted too.

 

You know what was kinda radical though: Repetitively insulting the capabilities of a black female author who will write the new ME novel because, how many reasons did you think of to hate on her? How many of those reasons were actually legitimate and not because of what she is? It came off that way when you did it! 

[Laughing_Man]

I don't think its radical to think asari favor females over males, and if we are to believe they are females exactly as human female are then it makes sense that they would instinctively be attracted to females having evolved for tens of thousands of years to do so. Since they are not females like human females though, it makes sense they are attracted to many types, and I hope asari come in many types in Andromeda so I can be attracted too.

 

You know what was kinda radical though: Repetitively insulting the capabilities of a black female author who will write the new ME novel because, how many reasons did you think of to hate on her? How many of those reasons were actually legitimate and not because of what she is? It came off that way when you did it! 

 

Asari are Aliens, not humans. Some of them like only Asari, some of them like aliens that look similar to them, and some of them have relationships with all types of aliens, even Hanar and Krogan (Like Matriarch Aethyta for example).

 

Claiming that all Asari should be the equivalent of Human lesbians even after their two or three thousand years of exposure to other Aliens

and evidence to the contrary, is about as logical as claiming that all female humans (or even a majority) should be portrayed as lesbians.

 

As for your precious author, I don't care about her gender or skin color (just as I don't care about those things in general), I made myself very clear that

I only care about the possibility of her political opinions becoming central and adversely affecting her work, and her seeming lack of experience with Sci-Fi.

(I actually searched for books by her, I only found some fantasy and something that is vaguely described as speculative fiction)

[CuriousArtemis]

Sigh. This is just a weird thread. What I'm getting is that OP is asking for varied NPC body shapes. Which I don't think is EVER going to happen in a BioWare game. It has never happened before. For example, all human women have the same body model. You're never going to meet a random shopkeeper, doctor, or soldier who has a different body model than all the other human female NPCs. Occasionally a Very Important Character, like a companion character, gets his/her own body model (for example, James Vega). 

 

So, asking for asari who come in all shapes and sizes is just not something that's going to be answered. Canonically, are their muscular asari out there? Um, surely? Just like there are muscular women? But BioWare isn't going to spend the resources (I'm guessing) just to create different sized asari NPCs. 

 

And lastly, I'm noticing a trend/assumption here which is that: naturally small boobs = androgynous person. That just isn't true. What nature gifted you with has nothing to do with your personality or your gender identity. You can be a very masculine-leaning woman (or even agender person or trans man) and still have been born with huge breasts and a curvy shape. Sorry that's just the curve ball that nature throws us. And a woman who loves to work out and get super ripped can still be the most girly girl out there. Her love of bodybuilding doesn't negate the fact that when not working out she loves wearing dresses and dreams of being a mother to ten kids.

 

EDIT: And one more thing: no one has huge boobs in Mass Effect. They are all average-to-small. Only those with "special" body models, like Benezia or Samara, have fairly large bosoms. The standard asari model though doesn't. In fact it's why I like them. It gives me the sense that their breasts are more muscle than fat. 

[AlanC9]

I don't think its radical to think asari favor females over males, and if we are to believe they are females exactly as human female are then it makes sense that they would instinctively be attracted to females having evolved for tens of thousands of years to do so.

The problem isn't that it's a radical idea. The problem is that it's an incoherent idea. Asari did not evolve in the presence of males. Their instincts can't have anything to do with males per se. They don't even have anything to do with physical appearance per se. The entire concept of maleness wouldn't be meaningful in asari culture. Sure, they could learn it from aliens, but why would they feel it?

[Han Shot First]

I don't think its radical to think asari favor females over males, and if we are to believe they are females exactly as human female are then it makes sense that they would instinctively be attracted to females having evolved for tens of thousands of years to do so. Since they are not females like human females though, it makes sense they are attracted to many types, and I hope asari come in many types in Andromeda so I can be attracted too.

That would make sense if the Asari were like other aliens and primarily partnered with their own species, with those involved in interspecies relationships being outliers, and those outliers primarily drawn to aliens that look like themselves. If they had been written like every other species, basically...

That wasn't the case however. The lore on the Asari has them preferring relationships with aliens over pairings with members of their own species, and not having any particular preference generally for species that look like themselves. Pairings with Turians, Krogan, Salarians appear to be no less common than pairings with humans or Quarians, and could be arguably more common, since the humans are still a galactic newcomer and the Quarians are clannish outsiders, living far beyond Citadel space. There is even one mention of a pairing with a Hanar.

Although it isn't stated explicitly that all seems to imply that the brain is the thing for most Asari. It's whatever they get out of the mind meld that most attracts them to their partners, rather than physical traits. In a sense assuming that physical traits are the source of attraction to their partners may be too anthropocentric a point of view. If physical traits aren't as important to Asari as they are with humans, which is really the only thing that would make sense for a species that prefers aliens, pairings with human males would be no more far-fetched than pairings with human females, let alone Krogan, Turians, or Salarians.

Of course that isn't to say that there wouldn't be individuals with gender or species preferences, like Aria (women) or Shiala (men).

[Seraphim24]

I don't really get the obsession with Asari to be honest...

[DuskWanderer]

I don't really get the obsession with Asari to be honest...

Call it Shatner fantasy, but they are the most screwable alien. 

 

I'm pretty sure there is an old adage: "It doesn't take long after discovering something strange and new for someone to think of it with a perversion"

 

 

But I'm right there with you, I think they are given fanboy fantasy powers, even by the devs. 

[Seraphim24]

Call it Shatner fantasy, but they are the most screwable alien. 

 

I'm pretty sure there is an old adage: "It doesn't take long after discovering something strange and new for someone to think of it with a perversion"

 

 

But I'm right there with you, I think they are given fanboy fantasy powers, even by the devs. 

 

They were pretty clear Space Elves of some kind but I guess I just never saw ME as really a Tolkien derived series so they felt oddly jammed in to me.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

That would make sense if the Asari were like other aliens and primarily partnered with their own species, with those involved in interspecies relationships being outliers, and those outliers primarily drawn to aliens that look like themselves. If they had been written like every other species, basically...

That wasn't the case however. The lore on the Asari has them preferring relationships with aliens over pairings with members of their own species, and not having any particular preference generally for species that look like themselves. Pairings with Turians, Krogan, Salarians appear to be no less common than pairings with humans or Quarians, and could be arguably more common, since the humans are still a galactic newcomer and the Quarians are clannish outsiders, living far beyond Citadel space. There is even one mention of a pairing with a Hanar.

Although it isn't stated explicitly that all seems to imply that the brain is the thing for most Asari. It's whatever they get out of the mind meld that most attracts them to their partners, rather than physical traits. In a sense assuming that physical traits are the source of attraction to their partners may be too anthropocentric a point of view. If physical traits aren't as important to Asari as they are with humans, which is really the only thing that would make sense for a species that prefers aliens, pairings with human males would be no more far-fetched than pairings with human females, let alone Krogan, Turians, or Salarians.

Of course that isn't to say that there wouldn't be individuals with gender or species preferences, like Aria (women) or Shiala (men).

So when they were evolving on Thessia did they not have evolutionary triggers designed to compel them to mate with other asari? Would these triggers not be physical in some way? Are you saying they only are attracted to minds/personality/emotion not the physical? They are not preferentially attracted to their own species?

 

Liara says her species no longer pairs for the purposes of breeding (that does not mean they do not pair for pleasure) because they believe nothing is gained, and later in ME2 Samara suggests it is due to the prevalence of ardat-yakshi conditions. This is an adopted belief they have pursued for a few thousand years after they encountered that the negative side effects from breeding with each other could be mitigated by breeding with other sapient creatures. This is not an evolutionary trait they had from the moment they walked upright on their planet. 

 

So the lore states:

 

A species of beautiful nearly identical-to-human-females aliens...

 

1 evolved to not want to breed with each other but with other aliens which they had yet to encounter

 

2 are primarily seen with male aliens throughout the trilogy (particularly in ME1)

 

 

 

And oh! I wasn't aware Shiala expressed a preference for men. Can you point out to me where this is (ME1 or ME2)? What does she do different from femShep?

[Dalinne]

 

And oh! I wasn't aware Shiala expressed a preference for men. Can you point out to me where this is (ME1 or ME2)? What does she do different from femShep?

 

She does not if I recall correctly. In Mass Effect 2 both of Shepards have that awkward moment with her stroking Shepard's arm and implying they could spent time together if they wouldn't be so occupied saving colonies 

[Laughing_Man]

So when they were evolving on Thessia did they not have evolutionary triggers designed to compel them to mate with other asari? Would these triggers not be physical in some way? Are you saying they only are attracted to minds/personality/emotion not the physical? They are not preferentially attracted to their own species?

 

Liara says her species no longer pairs for the purposes of breeding (that does not mean they do not pair for pleasure) because they believe nothing is gained, and later in ME2 Samara suggests it is due to the prevalence of ardat-yakshi conditions. This is an adopted belief they have pursued for a few thousand years after they encountered that the negative side effects from breeding with each other could be mitigated by breeding with other sapient creatures. This is not an evolutionary trait they had from the moment they walked upright on their planet.

 

Funny. When you apply all of those things to Humans, shouldn't it mean that same gender relations wouldn't exist?

 

After all lesbianism is not an evolutionary trait, and every evolutionary trigger should compel humans only to mate with the opposite gender in order to increase chances of survival.

 

 

The answer of course is that evolution is not a straight line, and that you can't directly apply the same principles you use on non-sapient to sapient species. Sapient creatures act not just out of survival instinct, indeed, many times they act opposite to it.

 

And considering the fact that at least outwardly Humans, Quarians, and even Batarians are rather similar to Asari, coupled with the fact that for them Sex is as much a mental experience as it is a physical one, there's really very little basis to your theory.

[En Es Ef Dubyu]

Funny. When you apply all of those things to Humans, shouldn't it mean that same gender relations wouldn't exist?

 

After all lesbianism is not an evolutionary trait, and every evolutionary trigger should compel humans only to mate with the opposite gender in order to increase chances of survival.

 

 

The answer of course is that evolution is not a straight line, and that you can't directly apply the same principles you use on non-sapient to sapient species. Sapient creatures act not just out of survival instinct, indeed, many times they act opposite to it.

 

And considering the fact that at least outwardly Humans, Quarians, and even Batarians are rather similar to Asari, coupled with the fact that for them Sex is as much a mental experience as it is a physical one, there's really very little basis to your theory.

Oh come on. Don't sink so low. H omosexuality can also be considered an evolutionary trait in humans. Want to take a guess? So our populations can't explode unchecked beyond environmental controls. You exceed your planet's limits, you go extinct. That is a good that nature provided us this.

 

 

And the asari are not like human females. Lesbianism/h omosexuality, as we understand it, is to them just being attracted to their own species, the equivalent of humans being attracted to humans. Makes sense right.

 

Sure I expect asari to be attracted to females, or males that resemble females, that also resemble asari, humans and quarians, etc.

 

By the way ask anyone here how much they want to romance a batarian. See how many guys won't complain if BioWare provides them with a female batarian romance, 4 eyes, 8 nostrils, jagged teeth, jowls and all. 

 

 

I think the asari's interest in other species, particularly very alien like hanar, is a recently (few thousand years) adopted desire to reduce genetic abnormalities in their populations.

 

I think it is logical for the asari to be attracted to species closely resembling their own. The more closer the resemblance, the more the attraction. Since you and others argued the asari must strictly be ultra feminine space babes and no androgyny (mix of masculine and feminine physical traits, even perhaps more masculine leaning) to be found among them, then they should be more strongly attracted to ultra feminine space babes (Miranda comes to mind). 

 

 

Just as I think it is logical for humans to be attracted to species closely resembling their own. The more closer the resemblance the more the attraction.

 

It's just while we as a species have variety in physical appearance, even among human females; some people here  think the asari should not.

[Laughing_Man]

Oh come on. Don't sink so low. H omosexuality can also be considered an evolutionary trait in humans. Want to take a guess? So our populations can't explode unchecked beyond environmental controls. You exceed your planet's limits, you go extinct. That is a good thing, btw.

 

 

And the asari are not like human females. Lesbianism/h omosexuality as we understand it is to them just being attracted to their own species, the equivalent of humans being attracted to humans. Makes sense right.

 

I'm not sinking anywhere, it's your logic I applied, not mine. I even explained why it's inherently wrong. Don't throw this on me.

 

So in your mind same gender relations has the same evolutionary purpose as plagues? Are you sure you are not homophobic?

 

In any case that's flat out wrong.

A. It's not even close to being effective at reducing or slowing down the increase in human population numbers by any significant percentage.

B. In nature when population of certain species explode in an area, you never see a sudden increase in same gender sex, and populations never stabilize due to this reason.

C. That's pseudoscience BS.

 

Regarding Asari preferences, I really don't see your point.

 

A. You ignore the fact that there is a very important mental component in Asari reproduction.

Meaning there is an entire dimension of what Asari find appealing that is completely Alien to us as humans.

 

B. Indeed, for all we know many Asari are only attracted towards other Asari (we even meet a few during the games).

Does that mean that all of them share the same sexual preferences?

Hell, there are female players of ME that get all hot and bothered at the thought of Garrus/F!Shep romance, despite the mandibles and the spikes and everything. Yet according to you it should be physically impossible to be attracted to an "Alien", right?

 

C. Your "by the way" about Batarians is completely irrelevant.

Batarians don't need to be sexually appealing to humans (much less straight males) to be sexually appealing to Asari, Asari are Aliens after all.

 

 

Edit: I actually think that variety in body shapes is a good idea for every race in ME, not just Asari.

However the picture in the first post is clearly of a male version of Asari, not a variation on the existing Asari.

And I just hate retcons, politically motivated or not.