118 réponses à ce sujet

[DuskWanderer]

It's unfair to women and men if each gender's unique advantages aren't incorporated into the game.

 

Take the Vanguard and Adept heavy melees.  They're throwing right crosses.  Women of exceptional and average capabilities don't punch as hard as their male counterparts.  Give the male biotics greater force behind their heavy melee.

 

Playing a female can come with its own strengths.  The woman I talk to all accept that there are certain things they do better than men.

Join the qunari if that's what you want. 

[Hadeedak]

It's unfair to women and men if each gender's unique advantages aren't incorporated into the game.

 

Take the Vanguard and Adept heavy melees.  They're throwing right crosses.  Women of exceptional and average capabilities don't punch as hard as their male counterparts.  Give the male biotics greater force behind their heavy melee.

 

Playing a female can come with its own strengths.  The woman I talk to all accept that there are certain things they do better than men.

 

With the space future, genetic tailoring, implants, powered armor, and most of the force in the punch coming from SHAPING DARK ENERGY WITH YOUR MIND, I feel like the minor differences in our feeble human muscles aren't large enough to be reflected in gameplay.

[DuskWanderer]

But in which moment in the trilogy you have an specific moment where you as a PC male are ridiculed by someone? None. There is any moment in which a violent woman beating a man is played for laughs in the trilogy? I don't remember one.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong in having a specific dialogue for men or women per se. The problem is that specific gendered dialogue usually means female PC has to face sexism time to time. That's not very empowering, that is a average friday night for some women. On the other hand, you have a male PC who can kiss or flirt with some women and who will never have to prove his value because he is expected to be whatever people claims. Other gendered dialogue: when you have a relationship with someone in ME2, you discuss that with Ashley and Ashley apologizes. When you are female, YOU apologize to Kaidan for the same reason!

Hell, the only moment when being a female Shepard is better than male Shepard is bonding with Bakara, the female Krogan.

 

However, I must say that in general Mass Effect has a very positive and equal treatment for male and female to all trilogy, more than other games.

Interesting that you pick the moment for "females" is the part where the whole thing is bashing men for not being as good as women. If the genders were reversed, it would be called sexism (rightly so, deningrating women for something like that is sexist)

 

I guess it's only okay if the women do it? 

 

I'm also not referring to just Mass Effect, but Fictionland in general. Watch pretty much any TV show or movie. 

[SKAR]

HA Ha Ha Ha HELL NO.

[Dalinne]

Interesting that you pick the moment for "females" is the part where the whole thing is bashing men for not being as good as women. If the genders were reversed, it would be called sexism (rightly so, deningrating women for something like that is sexist)

 

I guess it's only okay if the women do it? 

 

I'm also not referring to just Mass Effect, but Fictionland in general. Watch pretty much any TV show or movie. 

 

Sorry but I don't understand what you mean.

It's only okay for women to do... what?

[Panda]

It's unfair to women and men if each gender's unique advantages aren't incorporated into the game.

 

Take the Vanguard and Adept heavy melees.  They're throwing right crosses.  Women of exceptional and average capabilities don't punch as hard as their male counterparts.  Give the male biotics greater force behind their heavy melee.

 

Playing a female can come with its own strengths.  The woman I talk to all accept that there are certain things they do better than men.

 

So I would have had handicap in battles for my vanguard fem!shep? How in the world is that positive and something game should have?

[Cyonan]

You are right. Most of the time they don't give us the option of playing as a woman! 

 

In RPGs the majority of them actually do, and always have, given you the choice of gender for your PC.

 

So unless this is a discussion about the sausage fest that is FPS gaming, I don't see how that's relevant =P

[SKAR]

You are right. Most of the time they don't give us the option of playing as a woman!

FEMINISTS! FLY YOU FOOLS!

[DuskWanderer]

Sorry but I don't understand what you mean.

It's only okay for women to do... what?

You mention the one part where you liked the "females" dialogue was when the two women were considering themselves superior to men because of their gender. Or are you suggesting you didn't like it?

[EpicNewb]

So I would have had handicap in battles for my vanguard fem!shep? How in the world is that positive and something game should have?

Get creative.

 

FemGuard is probably smaller than BroGuard.  She has more options for cover because of this.

 

Among athletes turned soldiers basketball players suffer the highest casualty rates because of their extra height.

[Cyonan]

Get creative.

 

FemGuard is probably smaller than BroGuard.  She has more options for cover because of this.

 

Among athletes turned soldiers basketball players suffer the highest casualty rates because of their extra height.

 

A Vanguard taking cover? What kind of heresy is this?

 

A Vanguard does not take cover. A Vanguard is the cover for the lesser classes.

 

Although assuming that Shep knows basic martial arts, throwing a punch isn't all about physical strength anyway.

[Hadeedak]

Get creative.

 

FemGuard is probably smaller than BroGuard.  She has more options for cover because of this.

 

Among athletes turned soldiers basketball players suffer the highest casualty rates because of their extra height.

 

So what, in the meantime, BroRyder has less health because we all know men are big babies when it comes to pain*?

 

If the incentive of a different voice actor, different lines on occasion, and different romance options as well as playing a brand new character isn't enough, +5 endurance probably isn't going to be, either.

 

*Also a joke. Not intended to offend any actual men. I know you're delicate.

[Dalinne]

In RPGs the majority of them actually do, and always have, given you the choice of gender for your PC.

 

So unless this is a discussion about the sausage fest that is FPS gaming, I don't see how that's relevant =P

 

I know RPGs have the option of choose gender   I was refering not only RPGs: i.e. first new Tomb Raider you have a sutil rapey scene. Heavy Rain? The parts where you play as Paige, you have PLENTY of rapeys scenes. In Beyond Two Souls? More rapeyscenes (hell, David Cage, YOU have a problem!). Hell, even in The Last of us Ellie has her own rapey scene (however, at least the treatment is better than the other examples). Altough things are changing, most of the time your protagonist is gonna be male. 

 

About RPGs, I don't have to much  experience apart from Bioware games, but even in DA:O I had to put Sten in his place because the Warden was a woman 

 

FEMINISTS! FLY YOU FOOLS!

FEMINISM IS COMING     

[Dalinne]

You mention the one part where you liked the "females" dialogue was when the two women were considering themselves superior to men because of their gender. Or are you suggesting you didn't like it?

 

Because the Krogan are not precissely equal rights for males and females of their own species.

Hell, even Wrex who is the most open minded of them has his own joke about how much women talks and how males have difficulties in listening them.

It's a false equivalence what you show because there is no moment in the trilogy when MaleShep has to put up with special bullshit FemShep has a couple of times in the three games

[SKAR]

A Vanguard taking cover? What kind of heresy is this?

A Vanguard does not take cover. A Vanguard is the cover for the lesser classes.

Although assuming that Shep knows basic martial arts, throwing a punch isn't all about physical strength anyway.

it helps a lot though. Trust me.

[Hadeedak]

it helps a lot though. Trust me.

 

 

For a second, I thought you were talking about taking cover and I was about to give you a lecture on the way of the fearless nova-punch-charge-guard.

 

As is, I'll just say it doesn't seem important enough to be reflected in gameplay, what with the technology level and the likelihood that Ryder will be rocking some pretty high class tech by the end of the game. And it's not like Ryder will be getting into an arm-wrestling contest with an alternate version of him/herself, so it's pretty easy to just say "These are Ryder's base stats. Yay!" without getting into a which-is-the-strongest debate. (The answer is still Billy Batson, by the by.)

[Monk]

Spoiler

So what, in the meantime, BroRyder has less health because we all know men are big babies when it comes to pain*?

 

If the incentive of a different voice actor, different lines on occasion, and different romance options as well as playing a brand new character isn't enough, +5 endurance probably isn't going to be, either.

 

*Also a joke. Not intended to offend any actual men. I know you're delicate.

 

Oh! I'm wounded. Wounded! (when will the bleeding end)

[Panda]

Can't differences of sexes be up to roleplay? I want my female vanguards be viable in combat and my male characters socially adept- and able to hide behind covers- if I choose so. I would hate if game tried to limit my playing based on gender just cause it's "realistic".

[Hadeedak]

Oh! I'm wounded. Wounded! (when will the bleeding end)

 

I changed my mind. There should be no actual stat difference. The male protagonist should just yell that at the top of his lungs when damaged, and the female protagonist should have a looking at her nails idle animation. That won't annoy anyone at all.

[Cyonan]

I know RPGs have the option of choose gender   I was refering not only RPGs: i.e. first new Tomb Raider you have a sutil rapey scene. Heavy Rain? The parts where you play as Paige, you have PLENTY of rapeys scenes. In Beyond Two Souls? More rapeyscenes (hell, David Cage, YOU have a problem!). Hell, even in The Last of us Ellie has her own rapey scene (however, at least the treatment is better than the other examples). Altough things are changing, most of the time your protagonist is gonna be male. 

 

About RPGs, I don't have to much  experience apart from Bioware games, but even in DA:O I had to put Sten in his place because the Warden was a woman 

 

I think we can all agree David Cage has some issues, so moving on =P

 

It's a bit silly to make comparisons to "every encounter with an Asari" because one scene with Lara in the new TR is a bit rapey or Sten has one conversation about women in the Qun.

 

Things are changing? Let's talk about the top RPGs and Action RPGs of the last 2 years and what gender the PC is:

 

Fallout 4 - Lets you choose

Pillars of Eternity - Lets you choose

Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Lets you choose

The Witcher 3 - Mostly playing as Geralt(male). A couple of bits as Ciri(female).

Dragon Age: Inquisition - Lets you choose

Divinity: Original Sin - Lets you choose for 2 characters.

Wasteland 2 - Lets you choose for 4 characters

South Park: The Stick of Truth - Male only

Bloodborne - Lets you choose

 

Having played most of the games on that list, I can also say they don't feature terrible treatment of female characters.

 

it helps a lot though. Trust me.

 

Having trained in martial arts for 7 years, proper form and agility are far more important. Nobody trained is going to throw their full strength behind a punch in a real fight because you'd throw yourself off balance if it didn't connect.

 

The main thing my size and physical strength got me an advantage in was intimidating people new to sparring.

 

Maybe in an untrained street brawl, but I'm assuming that Shep has actual hand to hand training. 

[Monk]

Can't differences of sexes be up to roleplay? I want my female vanguards be viable in combat and my male characters socially adept- and able to hide behind covers- if I choose so. I would hate if game tried to limit my playing based on gender just cause it's "realistic".

 

This is a reasonable expectation considering the height differences between the PC's gender would be negligible when taking cover, Charge is a biotic ability which relies on biotics, not strength and, at least with Shepard, the PC was an officer so social practices would be ingrained if not already there.

[Dalinne]

I think we can all agree David Cage has some issues, so moving on =P

 

It's a bit silly to make comparisons to "every encounter with an Asari" because one scene with Lara in the new TR is a bit rapey or Sten has one conversation about women in the Qun.

 

Things are changing? Let's talk about the top RPGs and Action RPGs of the last 2 years and what gender the PC is:

 

Fallout 4 - Lets you choose

Pillars of Eternity - Lets you choose

Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Lets you choose

The Witcher 3 - Mostly playing as Geralt(male). A couple of bits as Ciri(female).

Dragon Age: Inquisition - Lets you choose

Divinity: Original Sin - Lets you choose for 2 characters.

Wasteland 2 - Lets you choose for 4 characters

South Park: The Stick of Truth - Male only

Bloodborne - Lets you choose

 

Having played most of the games on that list, I can also say they don't feature terrible treatment of female characters.

 

 

I'm scared of what new strange and bizarre part of David Cage is gonna be released with Detroit...     

I'm definitely not saying the treatment of female characters are bad in general in Dragon Age, Mass Effect or Fallout 4 . As a female player I feel pretty comfortable playing those games, they have pretty good characters both sex, regardless of their race, age, magical powers or lack of...

I'm talking about little moments, very especific times where my inmersion as a player broke because of rapey scenes (none in Bioware or Bethesta that I can think of) or little moments with sexist characters. Of course I know sexism of certain characters doesn't mean Bioware is sexist! But gives me the the impression of lazy writing: they use moments like this without purpose, just for shock value or because they want you to feel uncomfortable. 

I'm not saying they must not use elements to make us feel uncomfortable. I'm saying if you want to make us, the players, feel uncomfortable you have to work hard on the enviroment, in the scene, in the agresive way of a character appears, on music, on dialogue... Don't throw a sexist comment or a slur in order to gain that easily. It's not morally wrong, it's just lazy writing!

[DuskWanderer]

Because the Krogan are not precissely equal rights for males and females of their own species.

Hell, even Wrex who is the most open minded of them has his own joke about how much women talks and how males have difficulties in listening them.

It's a false equivalence what you show because there is no moment in the trilogy when MaleShep has to put up with special bullshit FemShep has a couple of times in the three games

Are you insane? You just mentioned it. In fact, you even brought it up with more examples.  Like I said, gender denigration is only a problem for you when it happens to women, you encourage it to happen to men. Also, as Wrex (accurately) points out, they aren't equal. Having women on the front lines in a battle is a stupid idea because of the genophage. This was quite similar to hunting and gathering way back in prehistory, the women did the work that was less dangerous because the biological differences inherent with human pregnancy. 

 

You're right: They aren't equal. Given the genophage, however, they really can't be. 

[EpicNewb]

So what, in the meantime, BroRyder has less health because we all know men are big babies when it comes to pain*?

 

If the incentive of a different voice actor, different lines on occasion, and different romance options as well as playing a brand new character isn't enough, +5 endurance probably isn't going to be, either.

 

*Also a joke. Not intended to offend any actual men. I know you're delicate.

All things being equal women are more likely than men to survive critical injury.

 

Higher estrogen levels leads to a greater immune enhancing effect so the female body is better at handling shock.

 

SisRyder's health regen delay should be smaller.

[SKAR]

I think we can all agree David Cage has some issues, so moving on =P

It's a bit silly to make comparisons to "every encounter with an Asari" because one scene with Lara in the new TR is a bit rapey or Sten has one conversation about women in the Qun.

Things are changing? Let's talk about the top RPGs and Action RPGs of the last 2 years and what gender the PC is:

Fallout 4 - Lets you choose
Pillars of Eternity - Lets you choose
Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Lets you choose
The Witcher 3 - Mostly playing as Geralt(male). A couple of bits as Ciri(female).
Dragon Age: Inquisition - Lets you choose
Divinity: Original Sin - Lets you choose for 2 characters.
Wasteland 2 - Lets you choose for 4 characters
South Park: The Stick of Truth - Male only
Bloodborne - Lets you choose

Having played most of the games on that list, I can also say they don't feature terrible treatment of female characters.


Having trained in martial arts for 7 years, proper form and agility are far more important. Nobody trained is going to throw their full strength behind a punch in a real fight because you'd throw yourself off balance if it didn't connect.

The main thing my size and physical strength got me an advantage in was intimidating people new to sparring.

Maybe in an untrained street brawl, but I'm assuming that Shep has actual hand to hand training.

Having trained in Jeet Kune Do I agree. But strength is a must for any martial artist regardless of "style" or gender. Bruce Lee emphasized strength and flexibility training. Not trying to sound sexist but thats how a lot of men overpower women. Don't underestimate physical power. In Brazilian jiu jitsu leverage and proper technique can defeat one who has bigger strength and size. But in a real fight it's not that easy. A bigger stronger individual is a huge threat. You have to be smart about fighting. You're not invincible. They can still knock you out in one hit if you're not careful. Form, flexibility, speed, and power. Having all those attributes in abundance is most important.