74 réponses à ce sujet

[malloc]

I think the team need to improve on environmental interaction. I always find the disconnect when I am this character who has specialized in fire abilities but I need a torch to burn something down. Does not make sense to me.

[raulraul12345678]

Reply to Cyonan:

Simple geometrical forms like square, rectangles, circles and their respective volumetric figure have a strong inner appeal as they are easily recognizable by our brain, and are symmetrical shapes, as we as human being are...they belong to our physiological nature.

The games nowadays are full of details and often game designer tend to forget how powerful this basic shape can have, probably because they are distracted by other things and thinking, mainly, I guess, to fill the levels and enviroments with details like fornitures, pipes, objects and so on.

I just would like to see the game designer of the upcoming game Andromeda, taking into account thhis underlying and deeper structure of a level.

Creating interesting spaces, volumes and intelligent compositions of those, that resonate inside our perceptions.

A quick and basic example:Imagine a simple squared huge room, in the center a cylindrical hole that goes deep underground. It has a sense of mystery that promote questions on what is there deep inside, should I go in to explore?...this is just the basic structure and then of course details can be added, but first the game designer has to reflect on the space built, what are the the psychological effect  that a certain structure has on the player?...

If you watch a Stanley Kubrick movie, maybe Shining, or 2001 A Space Odyssey, you can better understand about what I'm trying to explain...in particular pay attention to the simple prospective he uses, the shapes that constantly are revisited like the circles.

Shapes as symbols, yes this is the key element.

Symbols are powerful reminder, a circle for example is the symbol of a planet, a sun, that's why levels and game levels design have to mirror our inner nature and what is outside us.

Cheers!

[Addictress]

I thought the Priority Geth Dreadnaught bridge of space debris did this pretty nicely, in fact all of priority Geth Dreadnought.

Also that quest where you destroy a virus by being uploaded into geth consensus.

[Donk]

Yes, let's get back to N64 graphics.

[pdusen]

I have some bad news for you, OP; I'm 90% sure that Bioware does their initial build of every level with basic geometric shapes, replacing them with more detailed assets over time. This is par for the course in game development now.

 

Here's an example from UE4: 

[VelvetStraitjacket]

I think someone smokes too much of the green stuff.

[Seraphim24]

I don't believe you.

 

If you wanted to pick a game to discuss levels/rooms/houses Thief would totally be it though, that game was super creepy and atmospheric at times... flawed for other reasons but nonetheless.

 

Doom as stated sometimes it was pretty atmospheric as well but only intermittently... I actually found the levels in Doom to be fairly annoying, and I'd frequently get stuck even if they were somewhat straighforward, so there ya go... all IMHO.

 

If they had said Uncharted or something.............

 

I mean I could be like we need to go back to "Bubsy 3D" design to make myself sound special but that would make no sense because Bubsy as everyone knows sucked...

 

That said I don't understand the Kubrick references...all his movies were like so extremely violent and weird.

[AlanC9]

I don't think all of Kubrick's films have a lot of violence. Did Eyes Wide Shut have any? I suppose 2001 did show Moon-Watcher inventing warfare, and a geth might see Bowman lobotomizing HAL as a violent act, but that's it.

Weird? Sure. He's about the most cerebral director there ever was -- in the English-speaking tradition, anyway -- and his style is pretty alien.

[Addictress]

The art of pseudointellectual gibberish - BSN edition

I don't know what commentary this makes of modern American university campuses, but I feel like the majority of what I read in university looked like this crap.

 

Anyone else experience the same?

[raulraul12345678]

Reply to Minfilia151:

 

Kubrick references are not about violence or weirdness, but about how he was building a space or a sequence  using geometrical simple shapes; he new and understood the power of this symmetrical shape in our subconscious.

Thank you for your replay, by yhe way...cheers!

[Cyonan]

Reply to Cyonan:

Simple geometrical forms like square, rectangles, circles and their respective volumetric figure have a strong inner appeal as they are easily recognizable by our brain, and are symmetrical shapes, as we as human being are...they belong to our physiological nature.

The games nowadays are full of details and often game designer tend to forget how powerful this basic shape can have, probably because they are distracted by other things and thinking, mainly, I guess, to fill the levels and enviroments with details like fornitures, pipes, objects and so on.

I just would like to see the game designer of the upcoming game Andromeda, taking into account thhis underlying and deeper structure of a level.

Creating interesting spaces, volumes and intelligent compositions of those, that resonate inside our perceptions.

A quick and basic example:Imagine a simple squared huge room, in the center a cylindrical hole that goes deep underground. It has a sense of mystery that promote questions on what is there deep inside, should I go in to explore?...this is just the basic structure and then of course details can be added, but first the game designer has to reflect on the space built, what are the the psychological effect  that a certain structure has on the player?...

If you watch a Stanley Kubrick movie, maybe Shining, or 2001 A Space Odyssey, you can better understand about what I'm trying to explain...in particular pay attention to the simple prospective he uses, the shapes that constantly are revisited like the circles.

Shapes as symbols, yes this is the key element.

Symbols are powerful reminder, a circle for example is the symbol of a planet, a sun, that's why levels and game levels design have to mirror our inner nature and what is outside us.

Cheers!

 

Level design isn't the same thing as a movie.

 

Games like Mass Effect have to account for the fact that it's a game with a lot of combat in it, so the levels have to be designed with the idea that you're going to be partaking in some cover based shooting in them. It means rooms need to be filled with things that can actually be used as cover so the flow of combat is good.

 

It sounds like you want to go back to the days where we didn't fill our maps with detailed buildings because our hardware wasn't strong enough to render that many objects at once.

 

but I don't see how that results in good level design from a gameplay standpoint. That's not why Thief 2 has such brilliant level design.

[raulraul12345678]

reply to Cyonan,

I agree with you, a game is not a movie and I understand the need of covers for the gameplay and also the need of  modern graphics, I don't want to go back. My thread wants to point out clearly  how important is thinking psychologically when an environment and a space is designed; sometimes and actually often, this aspect is overlooked.

Thank you for your reply.

Cheers!

[Cyonan]

reply to Cyonan,

I agree with you, a game is not a movie and I understand the need of covers for the gameplay and also the need of  modern graphics, I don't want to go back. My thread wants to point out clearly  how important is thinking psychologically when an environment and a space is designed; sometimes and actually often, this aspect is overlooked.

Thank you for your reply.

Cheers!

 

If you want to control the player psychologically more than just the level design needs to be set up for that.

 

If you included a room with a random circle hole in the middle of a Mass Effect level I'm still in action mode, so I'm not wondering what that pit is for. I'm looking for enemies, checking where the cover it, and just generally surveying the potential battlefield I'm in.

 

In a game like Thief I'm checking for patrols, checking for spots I can hide, checking for loot, and checking for hidden rooms pretty much in that order.

 

Such a room would work better in a game like Amnesia, as it's a horror game. The player's mind is likely already in paranoid mode.

 

Most of Mass Effect's levels have an atmosphere of an action sequence, which means I'm primarily focused on the action itself. The level design that I'm going to be interested in is stuff the further serves to enhance that action.

[AlanC9]

Reply to Minfilia151:
 
Kubrick references are not about violence or weirdness, but about how he was building a space or a sequence  using geometrical simple shapes; he new and understood the power of this symmetrical shape in our subconscious.
Thank you for your replay, by yhe way...cheers!

At this point I'm going to have to call b.s. on the whole topic. I don't think symmetrical geometric shapes have any such effect, and you haven't produced any evidence that they do.

[Seraphim24]

Eyes Wide Shut was definitely weird.

[raulraul12345678]

Reply to AlanC9:

if you want evidence, watch a Kubrick's movie...if you pay attention, you will notice a lot of reference to simple shape...

cheers!

[ApocAlypsE007]

Level designs must serve a certain purpose. As graphics become more realistic and it is more important to tell a story than the fluidity of gameplay, level design must be planned accordingly. The preferred level design for me in Mass Effect is the realistic one, where every asset has its purpose, rather than the sprawling mazes of Doom that were made for the sole purpose of killing monsters. That being said, my ideal style of level design is one that makes every class viable and have multiple approaches of solving problems. 

 

The weakness of ME2's level design is that it is a blatant cover shooter with assets mad for gameplay rather than a practical reason within the world itself, it got more of the feel that you are playing a video game rather than playing around in a believable world. In that regard I felt that ME3 did significantly better as there were much less blatant cover panels. Those panels work better in a game focusing on competitive multiplayer where the most important thing in level design is creating a balanced map which the right proportions to create action but not overwhelm using an interesting layout that doesn't have to be grounded in reality and practicality.

[AlanC9]

Reply to AlanC9:
if you want evidence, watch a Kubrick's movie...if you pay attention, you will notice a lot of reference to simple shape...
cheers!

So what? Your argument is that the shapes will produce psychological effects, not that the shapes are present.

They don't produce any effects.

[Mdizzletr0n]

The title had me thinking "psych design" along the lines of the original Silent Hills. So I was hopping the topic would be more in the way of environmental story telling. Which yes, BW sucks at.

But how was the original Doom all that much more interesting than the usual corridor type FPS of the time?

Also Kubrick placed things for reasons often known to him and was easily missed if you didn't really pay attention. But it was enough to create the discussion of his hidden messages. He never really did it because it just looked interesting. That's a little too psychological for ME which is more in your face or thinly veiled references and allegories.

[Chealec]

Something something level design something...

 

 

 

... and nobody has mentioned Dark Souls yet?

 

What have you done with the real BSN? I wash my hands of this invasion of the bodysnatchers weirdness...

[raulraul12345678]

Yes Dark Soul is another fantastic example of level design with this kind of logic...hidden things like the underlying structure  of a level are very  powerful  as act within the subconscious....you cited a perfect example of a perfect blend of gameplay and  psychological message.

Cheers!

[Cyonan]

Something something level design something...

 

 

 

... and nobody has mentioned Dark Souls yet?

 

What have you done with the real BSN? I wash my hands of this invasion of the bodysnatchers weirdness...

 

It's cause we're all a bunch of casuals who need to git gud.

[Il Divo]

Dark Souls is arguably my favorite game of all time, but I can't say that has anything to do with symbolic shapes resonating with me psychologically - it's more to do with each environment feeling like it has a deliberate story attached, through item descriptions and sparse dialogue. 

[ZipZap2000]

Something something level design something...



... and nobody has mentioned Dark Souls yet?

What have you done with the real BSN?...

It died of starvation waiting for news about Andromeda.

[Innocent Bystander]

Only shapes that have any psychological effect on me are those of anatomical differences that girls have and guys don't. Good luck incorporating those into level design.