They should just remove weight restrictions for soldiers(carry all 5 weapons without penalty because why not) and give the soldier passive a decent boost to weapon damage for all builds.
Note that you could already build MPer soldiers that were very powerful and basically didn't care about the weight. The Geth Trooper, Krogan Soldier and N7 Demolisher especially, all had powerful builds that didn't care about weight but could dish out a tonne of damage. More powers like Siege pulse on the Geth Juggernaut are interesting in that although they do care about weight, but it can be used in different ways including a way in which it has value even if your cooldown is very high.
I think the point of designing the ME:A soldier should be to give options to make it a bit more interesting while still having the option to play it as the basic shooter character if you build it that way. It needs to retain the identity of being the best basic gun character. It was NOT lacking in power, dps or survivability.
A question that is somewhat related to this discussion is whether or not the game should refocus the roles of biotic, tech, and combat powers to bring a little clarity class distinctions. ME3 suffered from a "everybody should be able to do everything" syndrome, especially with respect to the design of the SP classes.
Remember back in ME1 where your trio had bars to indicate how much Biotics/Tech/Combat strength your squad had?
Wouldn't be opposed to going back to a more "specialist" feeling.
Say you don't bring an engineer on a particular mission, whelp, you don't get the thingy you would've otherwise.
Remember back in ME1 where your trio had bars to indicate how much Biotics/Tech/Combat strength your squad had?
Wouldn't be opposed to going back to a more "specialist" feeling.
Say you don't bring an engineer on a particular mission, whelp, you don't get the thingy you would've otherwise.
Adds to replayability at the very least.
Yes, ME1 defined the roles of the three types of powers/classes more clearly than the subsequent titles, although tech might have gotten the short end of the stick (balance problem, but could be remedied). Some might argue this is just being rigid, but it wasn't like you couldn't take whatever composition you wanted and still beat the game.
Of course CC and debilitation was a bit more important in that game as targets took longer to kill, and some encounters had many more enemies than you would run into in ME3.
Dumb down, ha. The games are so much more easier. With my Vanguard charge and shotgun was the most effective way for the class to get those enimies whom were far away. I was pushed to utilize my charge ability. Now all I can do is equipped a sniper rifle. It just breaks the purpose of charge. Biotic classes and tech classes should be ability focused while soldiers be weapon focused. Now every class is running around like soldiers who are much better at being soldiers than the soldier class.
And how does that address the fact that my idea is to make soldiers more interesting, rather than nerfing the other classes and force them to use peashooters so soldiers can be cool? Our character is a trained N7/Pathfinder even if they aren't explicitely a Soldier. There is no reason they shouldn't be able to pick up a rifle. If you want to use a sniper rifle, you're better off as an Infiltrator anyway, and if you're a Vanguard Novaguard is almost invincible in single-player, so it's not like you min-maxed here. You chose to use a sniper as a Vanguard. No one twisted your arm to do so.
Soldiers could get exclusive toys in the form of explosives, an updated Arenaline Rush, or maybe armor augments like those that the N7 Terminator MP character has. Or, have the Star Wars:TOR Bounty Hunter serve as inspiration, by having things like flamethrowers, mini-missile launchers, extra shield layers, and other delightful accessories that serve as weapons on top of the gun in their hand. There are a ton of ways they can give soldiers exclusive powers. Removing the cool guns from other classes would be the worst way to do this. ME3's loadout system is such a gigantic improvement on forcing weapon restrictions. I really hope they improve on that rather than go back.
I feel like Adrenaline rush is fine, but it needs to be more... Zappy. Like maybe it needs to remove the need to reload and you have five seconds to pump as much lead into the surroundings as you possibly can.
Five seconds is possibly too long, but something like that. Something cool, and fun, and different from normal gameplay that you're happy to activate. Something you'll wish you had when you're on characters who aren't soldiers.
I feel like Adrenaline rush is fine, but it needs to be more... Zappy. Like maybe it needs to remove the need to reload and you have five seconds to pump as much lead into the surroundings as you possibly can.
Five seconds is possibly too long, but something like that. Something cool, and fun, and different from normal gameplay that you're happy to activate. Something you'll wish you had when you're on characters who aren't soldiers.
It'd be too weird to balance, since effectively giving the Soldier X seconds of unlimited ammo with no reloads is going to heavily favour single shot weapons like the Claymore.
I don't mind the idea of separating Adrenaline Rush out into the offensive and defensive abilities of it, so that it becomes a tactical choice as to which one you want at the time rather than just "Cooldowns ready? Spam Adrenaline Rush.". The Infiltrator's Tactical Cloak should potentially get something similar.
I'd also personally like to see the time dilation be an optional evolution, but that's because I hate time dilation.
And how does that address the fact that my idea is to make soldiers more interesting, rather than nerfing the other classes and force them to use peashooters so soldiers can be cool? Our character is a trained N7/Pathfinder even if they aren't explicitely a Soldier. There is no reason they shouldn't be able to pick up a rifle. If you want to use a sniper rifle, you're better off as an Infiltrator anyway, and if you're a Vanguard Novaguard is almost invincible in single-player, so it's not like you min-maxed here. You chose to use a sniper as a Vanguard. No one twisted your arm to do so.
Soldiers could get exclusive toys in the form of explosives, an updated Arenaline Rush, or maybe armor augments like those that the N7 Terminator MP character has. Or, have the Star Wars:TOR Bounty Hunter serve as inspiration, by having things like flamethrowers, mini-missile launchers, extra shield layers, and other delightful accessories that serve as weapons on top of the gun in their hand. There are a ton of ways they can give soldiers exclusive powers. Removing the cool guns from other classes would be the worst way to do this. ME3's loadout system is such a gigantic improvement on forcing weapon restrictions. I really hope they improve on that rather than go back.
It doesn't, it addresses the fact that you were so quick to proclaim weapon restrictions as dumb down. When really letting every class use every weapon was the more streamlined and dumb down route. I get it, every class is a soldier and should know how to use a AR, this argument has been used over and over against weapon restrictions. But these classes are suppose to be trained in a certain type of combat and that was the point, they all had their role and weapon restrictions gave it to them; it created a balance. Sure maybe weapon restrictions isn't the best idea, but they caused the player to play that class a certain way. That was the beauty, every class felt different. Now they all feel the same, gun toting soldiers, save they have different abilities. Either they get rid of classes or there should be weapon restrictions. Because I see no point in a class system if they all play the same.
I like this idea. Make heavier specialist weapons like SAWs, SASRs/ antimaterial sniper rifles, combat shotguns etc Soldier exclusive (or at least Combat class exclusive), leaving more general purpose Rifles, carbines, SMGs, sidearms etc. useable by everyone. Every soldier isn't trained to specifically use a .50 Barrett M107, breaching shotgun or a 240B, and I similarly wouldn't expect every Joe or Jane to know their way round a Typhoon, Claymore, Revenant or M-98 Widow, only trained specialists.
Basically, use ME2's system before the Mattock broke everything.
I like this idea. Make heavier specialist weapons like SAWs, SASRs/ antimaterial sniper rifles, combat shotguns etc Soldier exclusive (or at least Combat class exclusive), leaving more general purpose Rifles, carbines, SMGs, sidearms etc. useable by everyone. Every soldier isn't trained to specifically use a .50 Barrett M107, breaching shotgun or a 240B, and I similarly wouldn't expect every Joe or Jane to know their way round a Typhoon, Claymore, Revenant or M-98 Widow, only trained specialists.
Basically, use ME2's system before the Mattock broke everything.
Yes this idea would be perfect, more specialized weapons should go to soldier only or classes that are specialized in a specific type of combat; Ex. Infiltrator with the blackwidow or Vanguard with the Claymore. Genius my man!!
It doesn't, it addresses the fact that you were so quick to proclaim weapon restrictions as dumb down. When really letting every class use every weapon was the more streamlined and dumb down route. I get it, every class is a soldier and should know how to use a AR, this argument has been used over and over against weapon restrictions. But these classes are suppose to be trained in a certain type of combat, weapon restrictions sort of did that; it created a balance. Sure maybe weapon restrictions isn't the best idea, but they caused the player to play that class a certain way. That was the beauty, every class felt different. Now they all feel the same, gun toting soldiers, save they have different abilities. Either they get rid of classes or there should be weapon restrictions. Because I see no point in a class system if they all play the same.
Neither weapon restrictions or weapon freedom are the dumbed down system because that would be implying either one of them require any decent amount of thinking to use effectively.
It's also funny that you say classes used to feel different considering how they were set up in Mass Effect 1. None of the hybrid classes had any actual class identity because they were just half of one class merged into half of another class.
If you want to see a return of the weapon restriction system I think it would be better to do this:
> Give everybody pistol training as a sidearm weapon
> Adepts, Sentinels, and Engineers can choose 1 other weapon class to become trained in
> Infiltrators and Vanguards can choose 2 other weapon classes to become trained in
> Soldiers are automatically trained in every weapon class
That way you still have restrictions on weapon training and the Soldier can be the weapons platform but you aren't completely limiting what the rest of the classes can do. You're not killing off builds like the shotgun Infiltrator simply because the original design intent of the class was to be a sniper, which I really think they should avoid actively discouraging build variety which ME2 style weapon restrictions do.
Neither weapon restrictions or weapon freedom are the dumbed down system because that would be implying either one of them require any decent amount of thinking to use effectively.
It's also funny that you say classes used to feel different considering how they were set up in Mass Effect 1. None of the hybrid classes had any actual class identity because they were just half of one class merged into half of another class.
If you want to see a return of the weapon restriction system I think it would be better to do this:
> Give everybody pistol training as a sidearm weapon
> Adepts, Sentinels, and Engineers can choose 1 other weapon class to become trained in
> Infiltrators and Vanguards can choose 2 other weapon classes to become trained in
> Soldiers are automatically trained in every weapon class
That way you still have restrictions on weapon training and the Soldier can be the weapons platform but you aren't completely limiting what the rest of the classes can do. You're not killing off builds like the shotgun Infiltrator simply because the original design intent of the class was to be a sniper, which I really think they should avoid actively discouraging build variety which ME2 style weapon restrictions do.
I was talking about ME2 naturally of course, being it was the only game in the series that still had restrictions plus all classes did feel very different from each other. Both ME1 and 3 classes felt inherently similar for one reason or another. As for which solution we should take, I agree with Quarian master race. Each class are suppose to have their own battle tactic i.e. infiltrators are suppose to be far ranged combatants so how about they possess the ability to use specialized weapons that suit their class like the widow as with soldiers. All classes would still have access to the non specialized sniper rifles like the viper or mantis, but only those who are specifically trained should have access to specialized weapons like the widow or claymore for example.
I was talking about ME2 naturally of course, being it was the only game in the series that still had restrictions plus all classes did feel very different from each other. Both ME1 and 3 classes felt inherently similar for one reason or another. As for which solution we should take, I agree with Quarian master race. Each class are suppose to have their own battle tactic i.e. infiltrators are suppose to be far ranged combatants so how about they possess the ability to use specialized weapons that suit their class like the widow as with soldiers. All classes would still have access to the non specialized sniper rifles like the viper or mantis, but only those who are specifically trained should have access to specialized weapons like the widow or claymore for example.
The thing is that the full on restrictions of ME2 do nothing but limit builds, which isn't a good thing.
Allowing people to choose their weapon spec still lets the soldier be more versatile while not killing builds just because screw people who like a certain style.
If we're just going to lock all the best weapons out of people not trained in the weapon, it's pretty pointless to give them the crap weapons.
The thing is that the full on restrictions of ME2 do nothing but limit builds, which isn't a good thing.
Allowing people to choose their weapon spec still lets the soldier be more versatile while not killing builds just because screw people who like a certain style.
If we're just going to lock all the best weapons out of people not trained in the weapon, it's pretty pointless to give them the crap weapons.
We'll I've already stated which solution I agree with, so it doesn't matter anymore. Opinions are like belly buttons.
I was talking about ME2 naturally of course, being it was the only game in the series that still had restrictions plus all classes did feel very different from each other. Both ME1 and 3 classes felt inherently similar for one reason or another. As for which solution we should take, I agree with Quarian master race. Each class are suppose to have their own battle tactic i.e. infiltrators are suppose to be far ranged combatants so how about they possess the ability to use specialized weapons that suit their class like the widow as with soldiers. All classes would still have access to the non specialized sniper rifles like the viper or mantis, but only those who are specifically trained should have access to specialized weapons like the widow or claymore for example.
I disagree. A biotic "mage" (I forget the exact name atm) and vanguard from ME1 will play vastly different even though they have similar abilities. Depending on the difficulty, late game you'll be mindlessly walking and fighting through most gunfire as a vanguard because upgraded barrier/shield boost ontop of adrenaline rush is AMAZING. You wont be doing that as the engineer or biotic mage.
I disagree. A biotic "mage" (I forget the exact name atm) and vanguard from ME1 will play vastly different even though they have similar abilities. Depending on the difficulty, late game you'll be mindlessly walking and fighting through most gunfire as a vanguard because upgraded barrier/shield boost ontop of adrenaline rush is AMAZING. You wont be doing that as the engineer or biotic mage.
The fact that the classes had the same abilities caused them to feel the same in ME1, compared to ME2. I'd have to admit soldier was the only class that did feel different from every other class in ME1 because it didn't suffer much from the rehash of abilities like the other classes. in fact adept did also, they were the only two classes in ME1 that had there own ability that the other classes could not utilize. Adrenaline rush for soldier and singularity for adept, but every other skill was rehashed. ME2 is where we really start to see the individualism of all classes because they all got there own special ability that emphasized the class play style i.e. charge for vanguard for better close ranged combat. Vanguard abilities in ME1 weren't specialized for close range combat, they were just rehashed from the list of biotic abilities. You may have felt that each class felt different, but for me vanguard just felt like adept without singularity and this is coming from someone who plays the game on insane difficulty.
Edit: I never play engineer so they may have felt different also in ME1, I would imagine so given sentinel is the only other class that uses tech abilities, but not all of them. So basically the hybrid classes suffered the most in ME1 as far as diversity goes.
The fact that the classes had the same abilities caused them to feel the same in ME1, compared to ME2. I'd have to admit soldier was the only class that did feel different from every other class in ME1 because it didn't suffer much from the rehash of abilities like the other classes. in fact adept did also, they were the only two classes in ME1 that had there own ability that the other classes could not utilize. Adrenaline rush for soldier and singularity for adept, but every other skill was rehashed. ME2 is where we really start to see the individualism of all classes because they all got there own special ability that emphasized the class play style i.e. charge for vanguard for better close ranged combat. Vanguard abilities in ME1 weren't specialized for close range combat, they were just rehashed from the list of biotic abilities. You may have felt that each class felt different, but for me vanguard just felt like adept without singularity and this is coming from someone who plays the game on insane difficulty.
Edit: I never play engineer so they may have felt different also in ME1, I would imagine so given sentinel is the only other class that uses tech abilities, but not all of them. So basically the hybrid classes suffered the most in ME1 as far as diversity goes.
Vanguards have Adrenaline rush too. But the point is that Vanguards can have the same abilities because they're designed as a hybrid. I will say I do like the biotic charge added in ME2 even if it is lolzy as sin. If anything the biggest complaint I have is how the vanguard rendered the adept kind of a waste of a class. You may not have singularity, but you have push, pull, warp, barrier, and adrenaline rush. Adepts cant reset their CDs or wear medium armor or shotguns which makes them automatically worse. Singularity just isnt worth the trade off
Vanguards are badass, they must keep their OPness. Engineers suck though.
Engineers definitely don't suck. It's actually my favourite class to play through all three games with. Tech powers to strip defenses with a firearm to finish them off. It feels incredibly natural to play as for me and combines well with teammates.
Vanguards have Adrenaline rush too. But the point is that Vanguards can have the same abilities because they're designed as a hybrid. I will say I do like the biotic charge added in ME2 even if it is lolzy as sin. If anything the biggest complaint I have is how the vanguard rendered the adept kind of a waste of a class. You may not have singularity, but you have push, pull, warp, barrier, and adrenaline rush. Adepts cant reset their CDs or wear medium armor or shotguns which makes them automatically worse. Singularity just isnt worth the trade off
Have you actually played ME1 Vangaurds did not have adrenaline rush Image here. Only soldiers did so you lost all credibility with that statement.
As for vanguards yes they can have the same abilities, but when two classes have basically the same skill set, besides one or two abilities, their individualism is non-existent and at that point what's the point of classes? Now tell me, how is charge lazy exactly? it's an active skill that pushed the player to stay in the enemy's face. Vanguard in ME2 was epic and balanced. It had a learning curve, especially once you came from ME1 to ME2. It differed in the fact if you didn't know when to charge you'll probably get yourself killed. The combat focused on the vanguard strength, close quarters combat. Charge is an awesome ability to pair with the shot gun, especially the Claymore and if you knew how to do the Claymore reload trick in ME2 it became even more fun.
How exactly did Vanguard render adept useless? If anything Adept rendered Vanguard useless in ME1 because Adept had all biotic skills Vanguard had plus singularly and warp. Please explain the adept's uselessness to all adept players. As I see it they're far from useless, because they're the only class which can use all biotic skills. Have you seen people play adept? For you to say the class is useless just tells me you're probably bad with the class, because adept can tear **** up on insanity. After all they are suppose to be the pure biotics. Hell I even bring Liara with me on every mission in ME3 because of her biotic buffs, and the fact singularity sets up biotic explosions and she annoys me beyond no end.
Edit: here's a vid showing how awesome adept was on insanity, this guy use only his powers didn't shoot once. How adept suppose to be played. Useless, please...
Neither weapon restrictions or weapon freedom are the dumbed down system because that would be implying either one of them require any decent amount of thinking to use effectively.
It's also funny that you say classes used to feel different considering how they were set up in Mass Effect 1. None of the hybrid classes had any actual class identity because they were just half of one class merged into half of another class.
If you want to see a return of the weapon restriction system I think it would be better to do this:
> Give everybody pistol training as a sidearm weapon
> Adepts, Sentinels, and Engineers can choose 1 other weapon class to become trained in
> Infiltrators and Vanguards can choose 2 other weapon classes to become trained in
> Soldiers are automatically trained in every weapon class
That way you still have restrictions on weapon training and the Soldier can be the weapons platform but you aren't completely limiting what the rest of the classes can do. You're not killing off builds like the shotgun Infiltrator simply because the original design intent of the class was to be a sniper, which I really think they should avoid actively discouraging build variety which ME2 style weapon restrictions do.
This could be a solution, I don't like ME1/2 Infiltrators because I absoulutely hate being sniper only, but I LOVE ME3 Shotgun Infiltrators, kinda remind me of KOTOR Scoundrel (stealth+get close to enemy+shoot/stab him in right in the face).
Have you actually played ME1 Vangaurds did not have adrenaline rush Image here. Only soldiers did so you lost all credibility with that statement.
<Snipped image>
As for vanguards yes they can have the same abilities, but when two classes have basically the same skill set, besides one or two abilities, their individualism is non-existent and at that point what's the point of classes? Now tell me, how is charge lazy exactly? it's an active skill that pushed the player to stay in the enemy's face. Vanguard in ME2 was epic and balanced. It had a learning curve, especially once you came from ME1 to ME2. It differed in the fact if you didn't know when to charge you'll probably get yourself killed. The combat focused on the vanguard strength, close quarters combat. Charge is an awesome ability to pair with the shot gun, especially the Claymore and if you knew how to do the Claymore reload trick in ME2 it became even more fun.How exactly did Vanguard render adept useless? If anything Adept rendered Vanguard useless in ME1 because Adept had all biotic skills Vanguard had plus singularly and warp. Please explain the adept's uselessness to all adept players. As I see it they're far from useless, because they're the only class which can use all biotic skills. Have you seen people play adept? For you to say the class is useless just tells me you're probably bad with the class, because adept can tear **** up on insanity. After all they are suppose to be the pure biotics. Hell I even bring Liara with me on every mission in ME3 because of her biotic buffs, and the fact singularity sets up biotic explosions and she annoys me beyond no end.Edit: here's a vid showing how awesome adept was on insanity, this guy use only his powers didn't shoot once. How adept suppose to be played. Useless, please...<snip video>
Vanguards don't have "Adrenaline Rush", because it was invented in ME2. They do, however, have "Adrenaline Burst", which Lord Kiran accurately describes in his post as resetting cool downs. It's a powerful tool on any class, and a huge advantage over the Adept.
While your arguments for the Adept's usefulness are valid, so are Lord Kiran's arguments for the Vanguard's. From an optimization standpoint, there is little reason to play an Adept in lieu of a Vanguard. The Vanguard can get all of the Adept's toys, even Singularity, and get a cooldown reset via Adrenaline Burst. This is a major reason why the Vanguard needed its own identity for ME2. It was basically Adept++.
> Give everybody pistol training as a sidearm weapon
> Adepts, Sentinels, and Engineers can choose 1 other weapon class to become trained in
> Infiltrators and Vanguards can choose 2 other weapon classes to become trained in
> Soldiers are automatically trained in every weapon class
There would need to be more clearly defined roles for each weapon class (out the window for ME3). Otherwise essentially there is no benefit to the combat classes, and especially to soldier for having redundant training.
Something that keeps getting lost in build freedom rhetoric is that classes with the most damage and utility from their active powers should not have access to the best weapon dps. So either they simply should not have practical access to the best tier of weapons, or the combat classes are going to need big buffs to their weapon handling.
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