125 réponses à ce sujet

[Khrystyn]

Many of you have far more experience in gaming than I do, so I'd like to hear your comments about whether it is a good idea to have available a fully customizable class, one that allows the player to pick any 6 abilities from all weaps, tech and biotic skills available in the game. Part of my reasoning, aside from my penchant to be a warrior goddess, is that a highly trained N7 should be capable of employing all three major types of skills and powers. I realize that this would make class evolution/specialization likely impossible or unnecessary, but so what? Choosing each of our abilities for an 'X' class allows a player to become a unique specialist right at the beginning, no?

 

I have read comments stating the criticism that "everyone will play the custom class, leaving the other classes alone." But so what? If I'm going to play as a highly trained N7, why can't I also choose my entire specialization at the beginning?  I will be very happy to play as a soldier where I can forgo pistols and shotguns in favor of alternately picking any 2 choices from the available tech and biotic skills. Or, play as a biotic who can remove the pistol in favor of an assault or sniper rifle, and one tech power of my choice. Is there something dreadfully wrong with this? Is it technically impossible?

 

Looking forward to reading your constructive comments. Thanks.

[Pasquale1234]

^^ Combat needs to be designed with some expectations of the kinds of abilities the player's team will be bringing. IIRC, prior to ME3, shields and barriers were entirely separate, but ME3 made them more homogeneous in the sense that certain skills (like disruptor ammo) were effective on both.

I believe the devs feel an obligation to make sure that every encounter is winnable with any chosen team at any difficulty level. That would be a lot harder to do if the PC's skills were a free-for-all; there would be an awful lot of possible permutations to test and verify.

[10K]

Many of you have far more experience in gaming than I do, so I'd like to hear your comments about whether it is a good idea to have available a fully customizable class, one that allows the player to pick any 6 abilities from all weaps, tech and biotic skills available in the game. Part of my reasoning, aside from my penchant to be a warrior goddess, is that a highly trained N7 should be capable of employing all three major types of skills and powers. I realize that this would make class evolution/specialization likely impossible or unnecessary, but so what? Choosing each of our abilities for an 'X' class allows a player to become a unique specialist right at the beginning, no?
 
I have read comments stating the criticism that "everyone will play the custom class, leaving the other classes alone." But so what? If I'm going to play as a highly trained N7, why can't I also choose my entire specialization at the beginning?  I will be very happy to play as a soldier where I can forgo pistols and shotguns in favor of alternately picking any 2 choices from the available tech and biotic skills. Or, play as a biotic who can remove the pistol in favor of an assault or sniper rifle, and one tech power of my choice. Is there something dreadfully wrong with this? Is it technically impossible?
 
Looking forward to reading your constructive comments. Thanks.

I personally like the classes, the franchise started with these classes and I'd like it if they still existed. I fell in love with the Vanguard in ME1 and every ME after that. I love the name, and love the lore around this class. For me fully customized classes are something I'd like ME to stay away from just because the lore already gives alot to these classes that already exist and there's so much emphasis placed upon them. It may sound corny but on the old forums I was in a group which talked about everything regarding the vanguard, lore to tactics. Point is I love everything about this class, to see it disappear would be awful for me.

[capn233]

 I'd like to hear your comments about whether it is a good idea to have available a fully customizable class, one that allows the player to pick any 6 abilities from all weaps, tech and biotic skills available in the game.

 

The questions I have are whether you are free to pick whatever you want, or whether there is some sort of power tier system where you can only go lower tier powers when creating the custom class?

 

This is all getting back to balance.  Assuming the custom class can cherry pick all the best powers, is it supposed to be overpowered relative to everything else?  Is the campaign at whatever difficulty is simply easier?  How hard do you make the hardest difficulty?  Is it supposed to be challenging to the vanilla classes, but less so to the custom class?  Or is it supposed to be challenging for a character with the best powers and best guns and extremely difficult for the vanilla classes?

 

Alternatively, are all the powers supposed to be roughly equivalent in power?  Even class specific powers?  That may result in a custom class roughly equivalent to vanilla classes in power, but it is questionable if this can be accomplished while actually creating a diverse set of skills that allow the vanilla classes to each have a distinct feel.  It would be unfortunate if everything ended up just being a Primer or Detonator as was largely the case in ME3.

 

It has been possible to create your own custom class for all three games on PC, although that is in the realm of modding.  Don't know how easy it will be to mod MEA.

[Element Zero]

The classes provide needed structure to the game. Going completely free-form would require a total redesign of the system, a system that is nearly universally popular. ME3's class and combat system, while not perfect, is damn good and pretty highly regarded. They won't throw that away in order to implement some entirely new, unproven concept.

Plus, as 10K pointed out, the classes are also iconic. Especially at this crucial crossroads, that is a weighty thing.

Edit: iPad autocorrect. Ugh.

[Cyonan]

There would need to be more clearly defined roles for each weapon class (out the window for ME3).  Otherwise essentially there is no benefit to the combat classes, and especially to soldier for having redundant training.

 

Something that keeps getting lost in build freedom rhetoric is that classes with the most damage and utility from their active powers should not have access to the best weapon dps.  So either they simply should not have practical access to the best tier of weapons, or the combat classes are going to need big buffs to their weapon handling.

 

I think that's what the weight system was supposed to be designed to deal with, they just didn't keep it to its intended design and started handing out insane DPS to lightweight weapons. It's a system that could work with some refinements and not handing out high DPS to the lightest weapons.

 

Given what we saw in Mass Effect 3, I would say that Soldier and Infiltrator need a bit of a nerf rather than a buff.

 

Many of you have far more experience in gaming than I do, so I'd like to hear your comments about whether it is a good idea to have available a fully customizable class, one that allows the player to pick any 6 abilities from all weaps, tech and biotic skills available in the game. Part of my reasoning, aside from my penchant to be a warrior goddess, is that a highly trained N7 should be capable of employing all three major types of skills and powers. I realize that this would make class evolution/specialization likely impossible or unnecessary, but so what? Choosing each of our abilities for an 'X' class allows a player to become a unique specialist right at the beginning, no?

 

I have read comments stating the criticism that "everyone will play the custom class, leaving the other classes alone." But so what? If I'm going to play as a highly trained N7, why can't I also choose my entire specialization at the beginning?  I will be very happy to play as a soldier where I can forgo pistols and shotguns in favor of alternately picking any 2 choices from the available tech and biotic skills. Or, play as a biotic who can remove the pistol in favor of an assault or sniper rifle, and one tech power of my choice. Is there something dreadfully wrong with this? Is it technically impossible?

 

Looking forward to reading your constructive comments. Thanks.

 

The biggest concern is balancing everything, since you'll have powers with way too much synergy that were never intended to be working together like Adrenaline Rush + Tactical Cloak.

 

Although since everybody will likely just play that class and ignore the pre-set ones, I'd probably say if going this route you'd be better off just not having classes at all and letting people choose a number of abilities at the start of the game to have.

 

I do like having the classes there, though.

[CHRrOME]

I'd make soldiers weapon platforms again (making soldiers great again, vote for me). With skills focused on weapon buffs and consumable-type powers like grenades, missiles and what have you with proper damage this time around. After all, those are consumable powers which means you need to replenish your grenades/rockets, etc through ammo boxes scattered on the battlefield.

 

Weapon restriction is tricky, although I liked it in ME2. However, what I'd do is probably take out the weight restriction for Soldiers and let them bring whatever weapon they want without penalties.

Maybe allow them to bring 3 or 4 weapons at the same time. And maybe if you're a biotic, you can bring two small arms (like pistol/smg) or just one largest gun like an AR. Thus, as an adept/engineer/caster, you are not limited in which weapon to bring but how many.

 

There was another thread (can't really remember) where this dude suggested that we could bring something like one pistol and one SMG on the hip, then a shotgun and an AR on the back; kind of like we could in ME2.

[capn233]

I think that's what the weight system was supposed to be designed to deal with, they just didn't keep it to its intended design and started handing out insane DPS to lightweight weapons. It's a system that could work with some refinements and not handing out high DPS to the lightest weapons.

 

Given what we saw in Mass Effect 3, I would say that Soldier and Infiltrator need a bit of a nerf rather than a buff.

 

It is definitely what the weight system was supposed to do, but it had too many loopholes and then they basically abandoned it.

 

SP soldier is one of the weakest classes.  It may need a nerf, but basically every other class would need nerfed before that.

[The Dystopian Hound]

Many of you have far more experience in gaming than I do, so I'd like to hear your comments about whether it is a good idea to have available a fully customizable class, one that allows the player to pick any 6 abilities from all weaps, tech and biotic skills available in the game. Part of my reasoning, aside from my penchant to be a warrior goddess, is that a highly trained N7 should be capable of employing all three major types of skills and powers. I realize that this would make class evolution/specialization likely impossible or unnecessary, but so what? Choosing each of our abilities for an 'X' class allows a player to become a unique specialist right at the beginning, no?

I have read comments stating the criticism that "everyone will play the custom class, leaving the other classes alone." But so what? If I'm going to play as a highly trained N7, why can't I also choose my entire specialization at the beginning? I will be very happy to play as a soldier where I can forgo pistols and shotguns in favor of alternately picking any 2 choices from the available tech and biotic skills. Or, play as a biotic who can remove the pistol in favor of an assault or sniper rifle, and one tech power of my choice. Is there something dreadfully wrong with this? Is it technically impossible?

Looking forward to reading your constructive comments. Thanks.

I agree.

[fizzypop]

I'm fine with that. I just don't want to be restricted by weapons. Though I'm also okay with the idea of choosing your weapons, but not being able to choose them all. Allowing soldiers to have all weapons at all times accessible. At least that way there is a way to make each class play a bit differently, but also allow differences even within the same class. Honestly I'm kind of in favor of a talent tree type system. It would increase replayability.

[Jedi Comedian]

Though I'm also okay with the idea of choosing your weapons, but not being able to choose them all. Allowing soldiers to have all weapons at all times accessible.

IMO the best solution, all weapons available for Soldiers, pistols 4 everyone, power-based classes (Engineer, Adept, Sentinel) can have a second weapon of their choosing and combat/power-based classes (Vanguard, Infiltrator) get to choose 2 aditional weapons other than the pistol. É voilà.

[goofyomnivore]

I think it would be cool if Soldiers unlocked alternate modes for guns. An Avenger on an Adept works like how'd you think, small damage with an automatic rate of fire, but a Soldier could 'mod' a grenade launcher that with disruptor ammo would shoot an emp grenade, incediary ammo an inferno nade, warp ammo a lift nade, etc. If we're still on a thermal clip system maybe the alternate mode would take 20 ammo instead of 1 or something.

 

 

I dunno I'd like to see Soldiers getting the most out of guns, but I don't want weapon restrictions back.

[Lord Kiran]

He was probably thinking of Adrenaline Burst, which both Vanguards and Soldiers have in ME1.  Adrenaline Rush was invented in ME2.

 

Vanguards don't have "Adrenaline Rush", because it was invented in ME2. They do, however, have "Adrenaline Burst", which Lord Kiran accurately describes in his post as resetting cool downs. It's a powerful tool on any class, and a huge advantage over the Adept.

While your arguments for the Adept's usefulness are valid, so are Lord Kiran's arguments for the Vanguard's. From an optimization standpoint, there is little reason to play an Adept in lieu of a Vanguard. The Vanguard can get all of the Adept's toys, even Singularity, and get a cooldown reset via Adrenaline Burst. This is a major reason why the Vanguard needed its own identity for ME2. It was basically Adept++.

Thank you for the corrections.

 

personally I think we should ditch classes and let you pick abilities from trees. You start out with a set of basic abilities from which to pick then as the game progresses, as you level up and complete quests, you unlock more abilities.

[Element Zero]

Thank you for the corrections.
 
personally I think we should ditch classes and let you pick abilities from trees. You start out with a set of basic abilities from which to pick then as the game progresses, as you level up and complete quests, you unlock more abilities.

I'm happy with classes. A free from structure like you describe would be fun for some games, but I don't think it fits Mass Effect very well.

If we had a wide open system like that, we'd run into situations in which a character all of the sudden became a biotic, for instance. This would fly in the face of established lore, since we know it takes eezo exposure, a lot of luck and years of training to become a biotic. Sure, you could "head canon" things, as people around here love to offer as an answer for everything, but I prefer to simply start with a biotic class in such a situation. Biotics are an obvious case, but classes offer a nice solid background and structure in a number of ways, both for story (as above) and especially for game balance.

[Lord Kiran]

I'm happy with classes. A free from structure like you describe would be fun for some games, but I don't think it fits Mass Effect very well.

If we had a wide open system like that, we'd run into situations in which a character all of the sudden became a biotic, for instance. This would fly in the face of established lore, since we know it takes eezo exposure, a lot of luck and years of training to become a biotic. Sure, you could "head canon" things, as people around here love to offer as an answer for everything, but I prefer to simply start with a biotic class in such a situation. Biotics are an obvious case, but classes offer a nice solid background and structure in a number of ways, both for story (as above) and especially for game balance.

If that's the case you could have a psuedo-class system where you pick a class that determines which trees you can pull from.

[Element Zero]

If that's the case you could have a psuedo-class system where you pick a class that determines which trees you can pull from.

It could've worked. If the game had started off more open in structure, it would likely be a finely tuned system by now. As it is, the class system has proven pretty popular. It isn't perfect, but it's working pretty well, so there's little reason to drastically alter it.

We've come a long way since ME1, and great changes were implemented between ME2 and ME3. They've shown that they're serious about continuing to improve each class, making each fun and unique to play. Now they also have all those interesting MP features that have seen a good amount of "playtesting" for potential integration into the main game, as well. Add that to whatever other ideas might be in the pipeline, and I think the class structure is in good shape. I wouldn't be surprised if each class were granted more branching options, this time. Time will tell.

[MrBSN2017]

The N7 Destroyer can wreck some angus with the right set up and weapons. One of my favorite and can really lay down some dps.

Adrenaline Rush was a weaker version of tactical cloak but you get longer duration allowing for better use with an assault rifle, i.e. Harrier. I think the soldiers are great, the grenades do become less viable on Platinum due to decreased spawn, but they are OP as hell on lesser difficulties. Arc Grenade really obliterates silver and bronze spawns.

Overall, I think they are pretty good. Maybe more passive weapon damage bonus and it should set them apart.

[shodiswe]

Rather than increased weapons damage, give soldiers melee combat abilities and maybe knifethrow etz.

 

 

Specialized manuvers and trained attacks that others might not have wasted time on. That way the Soldier class would have similarly useful abilities, they don't really need more weapons damage, that just makes it a class for lazy people that prefer to just spray.

 

Then again, I guess some people might prefer that, quite a few actually. There is no reason soldiers can't be trained in alternate combat techniques that are very effective and requier time spent learning them.

 

A weapon that hits a target all the same shouldn't make different amounts of damage if it's the same weapon and both makes a headshot.

 

Handling special modded ammunition could be a thing I guess, but how hard a skill would that be for anyone to learn?

 

I would realisticly find it more believable that a competent and skilled engineer could modify their rife to do more damage and provide other custom bonuses. Though I'm not sure if that would be a good balance shift. But more believable. On the other hand if you are a special operative with highend engineers and scientists prepping your gear like that of 007, then you don't need that skill yourself.

 

Soldiers being more skilled at handling weapons in ME1 with greater spread and kickback, was somewhat more realistic, but the non-soldiers seemed unrealisticly bad at it. Afterall, they had all passed military training, which should include fairly decent gun handling if you're a special operative, even if some got a slight edge over the rest of the class.

[raulraul12345678]

I totally agree with you, I think the troops are far too anonymous...I actually want to open a thread about that...Imagine if in Star Wars they would had designed the helmet in a different way, thankfully they got it right with a wonderful and memorable design. This did not happen, especially in ME3...the look of those soldiers are not memorable and far from being unique. 

[MyDamnAlterEgo]

They definitely should. And here's how:

 

1. Different armor classes - light, medium, heavy, super-heavy (like Terminator in WH40K or XS-1 Goliath in CoD:AW), with two latter available only to Soldiers (pretty much ME2-like). The restrictions could be not hard ones (like "armor class X is available only to class Y"), but a bit softer ones like "heavier armor suits spend more energy for moving and generating shields thus leaving less to power the omni-tools and biotic amplifiers - which means way higher cooldowns for tech/biotic powers".

2. Snap-in (aka connectable) and integrated weapons. First ones haven't got their own cooling system, using the armor suit's one instead. Slower to switch between, but way more powerful (especially in shot before cooling, the ME analogue of magazine capacity) - like, say, heavy handgun with 50-60 shots or assault rifle with 200-250 rounds ready. Second don't have their own energy core either, being mounted on the armor suit's forearms (like Phantoms' weapon) or on the shoulders (like N7 Destroyer's Hawk missiles, but - not missiles). Support and integration systems for such weapons are very energy-consuming ones, thus - see above.

3. Heavy weapons as separate weapon class (yet again, ME2-like) - and more of them, especially ones in "chainsaw" form-factor.

4. Another option - is class-specific armor suits. Like ones for tech / biotic classes have more powerful omni-tools / biotic amplifiers, while ones for soldiers grant better protection and feature above mentioned support systems (for snap-in weapons) or integration slots (for integrated weapons).

5. If not this, than - in ME3 terms - different passives: more affinity to weapon accuracy / stability, moving speed, less to powers (grenades should not be powers, being equipment instead). And different set of abilities with emphasis on togglable / passive ones (like Fortification or Devastator mode).

[Jedi Comedian]

https://www.youtube....h?v=FNhYJgDdCu4

By the gods, I get such a hard laugh each time I watch that scene.

[straykat]

By the gods, I get such a hard laugh each time I watch that scene.

 

I've still never seen the movie.. I've heard about it for years.

 

It just looks so cheesy

[Jedi Comedian]

I've still never seen the movie.. I've heard about it for years.

It just looks so cheesy

IT IS LOOOOOOL.

[capn233]

I've still never seen the movie.. I've heard about it for years.

 

It just looks so cheesy

 

It won an Academy Award for Best Movie Ever.

[Jedi Comedian]

It won an Academy Award for Best Movie Ever.

MOAR LOOOOOL