239 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

*snip*

 

Secondly, the majority of your reasons why Josie is "better" revolve around what I suggested is only half of what Bioware's priorities are: the player story. You didn't address the narrative aspects outside of that at all. I could argue that all of the qualities that make Cassandra unappealing to you make her more narratively appealing to me. Josie's romance may have the potential to appeal to a broader diversity of player created stories, but for others, Cassandra's specificity makes her more compelling. That is not a slam at Josie at all, who I like very much, but her lack of expressed internal conflict about the large issues shaping the game can lower the stakes in a relationship with her. Some people prefer that though, which is fine. If you want a game that prioritizes the player story and the players potential desires to that degree instead of attempting to balance it with the overall story and establishing well rounded characters with agendas and motivations of their own, then you're going to have trouble with this series.

*snip*

 

Cassandra's internal crisis of faith exists outside of her romance arc. Additionally, all characters, including Josephine, goes through a conflict of some sort.

 

The fact that you believe this is an objective reality as opposed to simple opinion on your part proves the arrogance with which you've approached this subject.

From your post above, you've described a fully developed character. My Lavellan may not agree with Cass on many issues (including the roster of gods you noted, to which I can only reply that Bioware doesn't give an elf Inquisitor the option to respond the way you'd like) but she manages to get along with Cass just fine, despite repeated claims that she was not sent by Andraste. Everything you listed is your own personal dislike. And frankly it just doesn't matter.

 

She ? I didn't know Cassandra could be romanced by the female protagonist. May I remind you that I said Cassandra makes a decent follower, just not a decent love interest ?

[Monica21]

She ? I didn't know Cassandra could be romanced by the female protagonist. May I remind you that I said Cassandra makes a decent follower, just not a decent love interest ?

It is possible for a female elf Inquisitor to get along with Cassandra just fine. I didn't say anything about romance. You mentioned specific points that can be addressed in a romantic or platonic context. And yes, you've repeatedly said that Cassandra doesn't make a decent love interest. You've been very vocal with your opinion.

[Sah291]

From my point of view, Josephine Montilyet is the better woman. Age is but one reason but I will try to list all of them.

*snip*

Those are all thoughtful reasons to prefer one romance arc over the other. I think what I, and probably others, didn't understand was why the hang up on age specifically, as a reason why she shouldn't have been included as an LI option, or given a lead role. That seemed petty, particularly when there are plenty of other players who enjoyed it.

My question is:- Why is Cassandra the primary love interest option who was given more content ? IMO, she doesn't deserve it.

If what many of you say is true, that Bioware needs to cater to the majority of gamers, then why did they not make the woman who is more chill, more moderate, more reciprocal, more open the primary love interest option with more content ?

Now some of you might say that Bioware is doing this because of request from the fanbase. Well, if that is the case, then why the Inquisitor was not able to romance Varric ? If I recall correctly, there were numerous requests for Bioware to make Varric romanceable. Yet Bioware did not do it. So why the double standard ? Why no Varric but yes to Cassandra ? So that argument holds no water.

As I understand it, Varric's writer was not interested in writing a romance. Cassandra's writer was.

The writers have talked before about their process for selecting LIs. They say they generally have the cast/companions already decided on first, and then they decide on which will get romance arcs, and that still may depend on which writers are interested and have an arc they want to write. They take fan suggestions into consideration, for things they like or haven't considered, but not for things they just don't want to do.

Cassandra and Varric weren't the only popular characters requested, there was Cullen, and he got a slot....also with quite a bit of content.

Also, I did not say they needed to always appeal to a majority of gamers. I just don't think it's strange, such to express surprise, at an over 30 character in a game.

My Personal Real Life Stances

I don't see a reason to comment on those; your personal philosophy is yours.

[veeia]

Cassandra's internal crisis of faith exists outside of her romance arc. Additionally, all characters, including Josephine, goes through a conflict of some sort.

 

 

Sure, just as the positives of Josie can exist outside of a romantic relationship with her.  What's your point? You're arguing that Josie is a superior LI because her specific character design is more appealing to you as a player since it potentially makes sense for a wider range of characters, specifically yours.

 

I'm arguing that Cass and Josie are equally valid options even if you don't like both of them, and that Cass's strength as a LI is that because she is sometimes more limited and often more defined in her expressed worldview, it allows for a deep relationship that takes into account conflicts founded on the very principles the game is exploring. You seem to like it when there is no chance for real conflict with your LI. I think it's more interesting if there is. Outside of that, the opportunity to pursue a romance with someone who is struggling with their faith, who may become Divine or lead an institute like the Seekers can be very compelling. 

 

You say that Cass doesn't give anything and is stuck in her ways, but in reality she is happy to accept divergent beliefs, she just stands firm in her own and figures out what she thinks while not allowing you to dictate it.  Cass is willing to accept you, but you're not willing to accept her. Which is fine. You don't have to and I'm not interested in convincing you otherwise.

 

But really what it comes down to, is that you don't like her as romance option (fair) so she shouldn't be one at all (unfair). Additionally, you used her age as justification for this when it turned out to be much more, which strikes me as disingenuous. As long as your position is that because something didn't work for you that it shouldn't have been included at all or should be given lower priority, I don't know what else there is to say. It's not that I want agreement, it's just that we seem to be approaching the issue on such fundamentally different levels that I'm not sure we have common ground there. I appreciate the chance for discussion though, as it's always useful for clarifying thoughts.

[AlanC9]

On the one hand, you have a woman, Cassandra, who is around the age of an auntie,

For an Inquisitor at the low end of the range of available ages, that is. Seriously, dude, you should have remembered that by this point.

I am not the kind guy who looks around at all the other men who got cleaned out by divorce, who had their lives ruined by things like alimony and child support,

Child support is about fathering a child, not about getting divorced. You can get stuck with that whether or not you were married.

As for the thread in general, I think veela's called it.

[jlb524]

She occupies a position (primary straight male protagonist love interest with lots of content) that she does not deserve due to a multitude of reasons I listed. Otherwise, she is a decent tank follower and her Templar abilities are good against enemy mages and demons.

 

Am I wrong or was Cassandra more popular than Josie as a LI for straight dudes?  It seems that way.   I'm not sure why she doesn't deserve it.  You and others may not like her but it's to be expected that she's not everyone's cup of tea.

[AlanC9]

Cassandra's won in every poll I've ever seen, yes.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My question is:- Why is Cassandra the primary love interest option who was given more content ? IMO, she doesn't deserve it.

I disagree that Cassandra is. Disregarding my bias for Josephine, there is evidence that in fact she is the primary love interest for the Inquisitor. For one, people on Youtube who compile all the romance-related content for the DAI LIs have shown a pattern for Josephine's romance video having more screen time than Cassandra's. Second and more obvious is the fact that Josephine is the poster romance for Dragon Age: Inquisition. In the trailer, it is hers that is shown just like Ashley was in ME1 and ME3, Miranda in ME2, Morrigan in DAO, and Isabela in DA2. And the image for the Romance achievement is from Josephine's romance.

 

 

[AlanC9]

For one, people on Youtube who compile all the romance-related content for the DAI LIs have shown a pattern for Josephine's romance video having more screen time than Cassandra's.

Interesting. What about views?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Interesting. What about views?

When the same Youtube channel has both, Josephine's has more. For example DanaDuchy's Cassandra romance video is 19:32 long and has 145,441 views, where their Josephine romance video is 25:17 long and has 221,944 views. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

The only Cassandra videos that I can find that have more views than Josephine's are much shorter videos of just Cassandra's sex scene, and even then they are just barely over. 

[AlanC9]

I don't know why I was surprised by that . Whenever we can check a poll of people here against the tastes of the fanbase in general, we're different.

[thesuperdarkone2]

When the same Youtube channel has both, Josephine's has more. For example DanaDuchy's Cassandra romance video is 19:32 long and has 145,441 views, where their Josephine romance video is 25:17 long and has 221,944 views.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube....h?v=-eN0gjh_uK8

https://www.youtube....h?v=sobkAejx1ZQ

The only Cassandra videos that I can find that have more views than Josephine's are much shorter videos of just Cassandra's sex scene, and even then they are just barely over.

I think you also have to remember that Leliana is the most popular origins romance despite Alastair and morrigan having way more plot relevance.

[BansheeOwnage]

Hello everyone. Let's keep it civil and on topic in here. Thank you.

Great job moderating. Really good. Excellent.

Yeah, I wish they'd do something more than just pasting generic pre-typed sentences and randomly removing mundane responses to ridiculous posts while leaving the original ridiculous ones there Much as I had problems with certain mods on the old BSN, I'd rather they try to seem like real people instead of bots. The names, or lack-thereof, don't help.

 

 

Oh wait, that's Josephine? I've only seen the tiny version of this on the Xbox Achievement list, so I thought the blonde elf was Sera and the figure on the left was the Inquisitor (from that angle Josephine's hair looks like the default female hair). Huh.

[Mike3207]

First, I like both ladies. I don't think you can go wrong romancing either one.

 

Still, I would have liked my male Inquisitor Trevallyan to have the option to romance Sera.

[dawnstone]

When the same Youtube channel has both, Josephine's has more. For example DanaDuchy's Cassandra romance video is 19:32 long and has 145,441 views, where their Josephine romance video is 25:17 long and has 221,944 views. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

The only Cassandra videos that I can find that have more views than Josephine's are much shorter videos of just Cassandra's sex scene, and even then they are just barely over. 

Could it be that more people actually played the Cassandra romance, so they didn't have to go looking for a separate video for it? I know that I watch the videos of the romances that I didn't do, or options I didn't take, just so I don't miss content. But that's just me.

[AFA]

The juxtaposition between the new beautiful high fantasy world and the sudden "realistic" characters of both genders was kind of a weird aesthetic, especially looking back at the darker first two games with beautiful people everywhere.

 

Loved Josie, but her romance obviously seemed to be targeted at women role-playing male characters.

 

BTW, anyone who complains about Cassandra's age must have never experienced the creep factor of Elanee and a male PC in Neverwinter Nights 2. 

[KaiserShep]

My question is:- Why is Cassandra the primary love interest option who was given more content ? IMO, she doesn't deserve it.

 

 

What's this stuff about Cassandra being the "primary love interest"? For my Inquisitor, that was clearly Sera, running time on compiled YouTube vids be damned.

 

 

If I had to make a case for a companion that I felt was the "primary", I'd peg Solas before anyone else, which is funny considering that his was a late addition.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

What's this stuff about Cassandra being the "primary love interest"? For my Inquisitor, that was clearly Sera, running time on compiled YouTube vids be damned.

 

 

If I had to make a case for a companion that I felt was the "primary", I'd peg Solas before anyone else, which is funny considering that his was a late addition.

 

I meant that specifically for straight male protagonist. I didn't think Sera and Solas were into the male protagonist.

[lynroy]

....I'd peg Solas ....

Sorry, my mind totally went in the gutter there. Carry on.

[KaiserShep]

You cheeky bastid. Never change. 

[KaiserShep]

I meant that specifically for straight male protagonist. I didn't think Sera and Solas were into the male protagonist.

 

I see no reason why this same argument couldn't be applied to any version of protagonist you can create. 

[GoldenGail3]

 Solas is wayy older than Cassandra... Why doesn't the OP complain about Solas's age rather than Cassandra's?

[Monica21]

BTW, anyone who complains about Cassandra's age must have never experienced the creep factor of Elanee and a male PC in Neverwinter Nights 2.

Yikes, I'd forgotten about that. Never had a male PC but I can definitely see it. I was more of a Bishop girl myself. *dreamy sigh*

[thesuperdarkone2]

Solas is wayy older than Cassandra... Why doesn't the OP complain about Solas's age rather than Cassandra's?

Because the op doesn't really care about age, they just want to make a Cassandra hate thread because they feel the devs didn't pander to him alone.

[lynroy]

You cheeky bastid. Never change. 

Oh you