139 réponses à ce sujet

[ruggly]

This is still a thing?

[rossler]

Nevertheless, having limits placed on where and when it could be discussed on the ME3 forums points toward it *not* being the ending the writers intended.

 

They intended it to be open to interpretation. 

 

I think Mike Gamble said it: We don't want to comment on IT either way, and here's why. We don't want to be prescriptive on how people interpret the ending. 

 

They didn't debunk anything, but they didn't want to tell you how the story really ends (eg. canon, writer's intent), etc. 

[AlanC9]

And really, that's how the IT guys managed to poison the debate. It wasn't enough to talk about how this was an interesting and fun way to interpret the game. No, it had to be that this was Bio's real intent all along, and the IT fans were the ones who were smart enough to see it.

[Dalakaar]

I'm beginning to like this thread. It makes me feel saner.

[UpUpAway]

And really, that's how the IT guys managed to poison the debate. It wasn't enough to talk about how this was an interesting and fun way to interpret the game. No, it had to be that this was Bio's real intent all along, and the IT fans were the ones who were smart enough to see it.

 

Agree... it's just another option for interpreting the game... really, just one of many fun ways to interpret the game.  It is one that appeals to some in the same style as the TV shows that keep trying to prove up the existence of ghosts and UFO's by over complicating and over analyzing historical lore and such.  I do find, though, that those shows tend to come across the same way because of the level of over-analyzed details they tend to present to support their arguments.

[Han Shot First]

They intended it to be open to interpretation.

I think Mike Gamble said it: We don't want to comment on IT either way, and here's why. We don't want to be prescriptive on how people interpret the ending.

They didn't debunk anything, but they didn't want to tell you how the story really ends (eg. canon, writer's intent), etc.

Gamble was in PR mode. He didn't want to anger all the IT crowd, who while in denial and often obnoxious about their head canon, were at least interested in the endings that nearly every one else was criticizing.

If IT was something that actually came up in the writer's room, why was there no DLC that rolled out the IT reveal? Why did the Extended Cut include epilogues that contradict an IT interpretation? Why did Bioware eventually muzzle the IT crowd on this forum? What company would seriously limit discussion of an ending to one of its games. If the discussion is in line with what the writers intended? Why didn't Weekes confirm IT in his post about the endings and the lead writers

There's nothing wrong with keeping IT as personal head canon, but confusing it for the actual game canon is slightly delusional at this point.

[Dalakaar]

There's nothing wrong with keeping IT as personal head canon, but confusing it for the actual game canon is slightly delusional at this point.

That's a nicer way of putting it than I would've...

[rossler]

Gamble was in PR mode. He didn't want to anger all the IT crowd, who while in denial and often obnoxious about their head canon, were at least interested in the endings that nearly every one else was criticizing.

If IT was something that actually came up in the writer's room, why was there no DLC that rolled out the IT reveal? Why did the Extended Cut include epilogues that contradict an IT interpretation? Why did Bioware eventually muzzle the IT crowd on this forum? What company would seriously limit discussion of an ending to one of its games. If the discussion is in line with what the writers intended? Why didn't Weekes confirm IT in his post about the endings and the lead writers

There's nothing wrong with keeping IT as personal head canon, but confusing it for the actual game canon is slightly delusional at this point.

 

Because that would rob the player of choice. Which ruins what the game is supposed to be about. You want the real ending? The only way to get the true ending is to destroy the Reapers with a high enough EMS. All you guys who picked control and synthesis can't get the intended ending. IT takes the original three choices, and boils it down to one choice to get the real ending. One choice, means no choice. That's one thing I don't like about it. Doesn't sound fair to do in a game like this. 

 

The Extended Cut didn't confirm or deny anything. It did leave it open. 

 

So they just decided to not say anything, and leave it up to the player to choose what is best. Honestly I think that's the best way to do it. 

 

I don't believe people would accept Bioware leaving things open to interpretation. They are demanding that Bioware declare a canon (intended) ending, whether Bioware wants to or not. Which they've said multiple times, that there is no canon ending because the player decides what is best. Yet, the fans keep demanding to know which ending is what they intended. This is sort of where it gets unconstructive. 

[Hadeedak]

Because that would rob the player of choice. Which ruins what the game is supposed to be about. You want the real ending? The only way to get the true ending is to destroy the Reapers with a high enough EMS. All you guys who picked control and synthesis can't get the intended ending.

 

 

No matter which one you choose, the game breaks the fourth wall to tell you that Shepard stopped the Reapers. 

 

And having one choice be 'right' in a game about choice would be rather annoying. The best part of ME3 is that you get a choice at the end that really takes some thought and some factoring in your Shepard's personality and what they'd want. Of course, the presentation is... Well, for those of you who saw pre-EC, you know. All four are valid choices, with different outcomes, because the game didn't rob the player of choice by having the kneejerk reaction be the only way to win. And my Esperanza Shepard, new central mind of the Reapers, won just as much as Yoshimi Shepard who shot the pipe. 

[AlanC9]

Because that would rob the player of choice. Which ruins what the game is supposed to be about. You want the real ending? The only way to get the true ending is to destroy the Reapers with a high enough EMS. All you guys who picked control and synthesis can't get the intended ending. IT takes the original three choices, and boils it down to one choice to get the real ending. One choice, means no choice. That's one thing I don't like about it. Doesn't sound fair to do in a game like this.

Technically, the other endings are endings too. They're just failures.

IT wobbled back and forth a bit over the years. Originally the concept was that none of the choices were "the ending;" maybe a bad choice locked you out of the good DLC endings, maybe it just made stuff harder. That became untenable when the DLC cycle ended, of course.

[felipejiraya]

This again. Jesus.

[rossler]

Technically, the other endings are endings too. They're just failures.

 

It sounds like you wanted a good ending. 

[DextroDNA]

Bioware never confirmed nor denied the IT and they never will. They always danced around it and said it was open to interpretation.

 

Whether it's what they actually intended or not, we'll never know. Might be true, might not be. Pre-EC I would have head-canon'd it but after the EC I'm content with a literal interpretation of the ending(s).

[rossler]

I'm okay with things being open to interpretation. 

[Dalakaar]

Whether it's what they actually intended or not, we'll never know.

You kind of hit the nail on the head with that one in a way I couldn't from this side of the line.

 

It's the fact that that line is grey to you instead of black and white that makes us IT detractors so shocked. (And appalled.)

 

I'm 100% certain they did not intend the IT theory and they only left it "open to interpretation" because it's the easiest road to appeasement on all(most) sides.

 

I don't care if you prescribe to it, because I don't care about what your personal opinion is on what you do and do not like. Nor should I. And vice versa. But that you think it's intended. That part I contend with. The Extended Cut? That was your nail in a coffin.

[SKAR]

Bioware never confirmed nor denied the IT and they never will. They always danced around it and said it was open to interpretation.

Whether it's what they actually intended or not, we'll never know. Might be true, might not be. Pre-EC I would have head-canon'd it but after the EC I'm content with a literal interpretation of the ending(s).

They did with the extended cut. Shepard:so the illusive was right. Catalyst: but he could never have taken control cause we already controlled him.

[goishen]

This is still a thing?

 

 

I dunno.  I supposed that the IT was put forward by some people so that they could sleep at night knowing that evil was defeated.  I put up with it, but only because I knew that after a while they would go away.  They apparently haven't.

 

*shrug*

[rossler]

The Extended Cut does add some things to IT, but they still left it open. I like that. 

[SKAR]

The Extended Cut does add some things to IT, but they still left it open. I like that.

Like what?

[rossler]

-In the original ending, Major Coates mentions that no one made it to the beam. However, if you look around near the beam, you can actually see Major Coates dead. He was moved in the Extended Cut to the one of the bodies during the tunnel scene.

 

-Major Coates who is really dead, is seen alive in the cutscenes during the Extended Cut. 

 

-The man that hands Hackett the note that says someone made it to the Citadel is the same guy who was one of the Alliance Defense Council members killed in the beginning of the game.

 

-The Normandy that picks your squad up in the Extended Cut, is not the same Normandy from ME3. The interior looks similar to the one from ME2. Lots of fans in the cargo bay, where the Normandy from ME3 doesn't have any.

 

There some other stuff that requires a fly cam to see, like Major Coates in the tunnel. You see a forehead, but not his face. Then he disappears as soon as Shepard regains control and starts walking.

 

Your squadmates weren't actually picked up, but rather a duplicate of them was seen on the hill, while the ones in the Extended Cut did get picked up. 

 

That's all I can remember. 

[AlanC9]

It sounds like you wanted a good ending.

As a matter of RP, I have to aim for a good ending unless I'm playing a stupid or insane PC, yes. Doesn't mean that the game-world is under any obligation to give my PC one, though.

I'm not sure I see the relevance. IT doesn't change anything here since the player can fail either way.

[SKAR]

-In the original ending, Major Coates mentions that no one made it to the beam. However, if you look around near the beam, you can actually see Major Coates dead. He was moved in the Extended Cut to the one of the bodies during the tunnel scene.

-Major Coates who is really dead, is seen alive in the cutscenes during the Extended Cut.

-The man that hands Hackett the note that says someone made it to the Citadel is the same guy who was one of the Alliance Defense Council members killed in the beginning of the game.

-The Normandy that picks your squad up in the Extended Cut, is not the same Normandy from ME3. The interior looks similar to the one from ME2. Lots of fans in the cargo bay, where the Normandy from ME3 doesn't have any.

There some other stuff that requires a fly cam to see, like Major Coates in the tunnel. You see a forehead, but not his face. Then he disappears as soon as Shepard regains control and starts walking.

Your squadmates weren't actually picked up, but rather a duplicate of them was seen on the hill, while the ones in the Extended Cut did get picked up.

That's all I can remember.

ohhhh man.

[Hadeedak]

Flycam and reused assets aren't exactly a solid case, given how game-making works.

 

Especially in something put together as quickly as the EC.

[ZipZap2000]

-In the original ending, Major Coates mentions that no one made it to the beam. However, if you look around near the beam, you can actually see Major Coates dead. He was moved in the Extended Cut to the one of the bodies during the tunnel scene.

-Major Coates who is really dead, is seen alive in the cutscenes during the Extended Cut.

-The man that hands Hackett the note that says someone made it to the Citadel is the same guy who was one of the Alliance Defense Council members killed in the beginning of the game.

-The Normandy that picks your squad up in the Extended Cut, is not the same Normandy from ME3. The interior looks similar to the one from ME2. Lots of fans in the cargo bay, where the Normandy from ME3 doesn't have any.

There some other stuff that requires a fly cam to see, like Major Coates in the tunnel. You see a forehead, but not his face. Then he disappears as soon as Shepard regains control and starts walking.

Your squadmates weren't actually picked up, but rather a duplicate of them was seen on the hill, while the ones in the Extended Cut did get picked up.

That's all I can remember.

Based on you evidence I have come up with the following:



Major Coates.

Mister Biscuits.....



That guy who looks like a guy who died but came back to life.

Shepards Clone.....




ME2 Interior.

Leather seats in Andersons apartment......



Fly Cam.

You look out on the Normandy one last time before flying off the citadel........



The Citadel DLC is the real ending.

Mines better.

[rossler]

The Citadel DLC is the real ending.

Mines better.

 

Why do you consider Citadel to be the real ending of the game?

 

Usually endings happen then the credits. Just like ME1, ME2, and the original ME3 ending. 

 

Citadel DLC happens, and then you spawn back on the Normandy without credits.