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Heroic themes in MEA


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#1
Seraphim24

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Hello.

 

I am here to ask that the next ME hopefully have a kind of more positive, spirited, and otherwise "heroic" tone in regards to the central elements of the game.

 

I guess maybe that is sort of vague but I don't think it has to be... when you think about the downtrodden or the oppressed, or the evil and the bad people they are unfortunately not always that hard to find. Whether you can do anything about it in the real world is of course highly questionable (i.e. the answer is basically you can't do anything about it... maybe vent on a forum or blog sort of thing)

 

However! Since we live in the world of the imagination and the fantasy it's totally appropriate to have those kinds of themes. I think in general looking back the trend wasn't to have "heroic" or "evil" it was usually "heroic" and/or "highly apathetic/sort of basically evil out of a general sense of laziness or tedium"

 

In ME1 you had characters like Garrus, Ashley, and Kaidan who were motivated by a sense of clear passion animating beyond their nearest experience and into the kind of great beyond, each had a goal that was distinct from themselves and emanated to their surrounding institutions/customs. In the case of Garrus, it was CSEC. With Ashley, it was the Alliance and her specific heritage and how that was viewed.

 

In ME2 these were largely replaced by what I think of as perfect genetic clones of heroic characters, right down to the teeth, in the form of but not limited Miranda, Jacob, Mordin, Grunt, and Jack, all of whom transposed ideations driven by a confluence of personal and heroic factors into ones strictly internally followed and revolving around personal ennui and loathing.

 

The case of Mordin is peculiarly egregious since he actually views his exclusively personal visions and ideations as grandly cultural and mythic ones which is kind of insane but I don't think he really pretends to be otherwise if you look closely..... probably would not even be offended by such a moniker. 

 

None of the characters in ME2 really achieve anything in a sense, just the passage of time and the satisfaction of a mission well done, I guess, but that stuff I personally find quite boring. In worst cases they ultimately throw themselves in front of the rushing water from a dam they themselves detonated... hardly heroic.... not evil, but, well, someone will have to come up with a term for that one.

 

SOooo in MEA I'm hoping to see more of that ME1 like heroism and less of the ME2 like ennui. ME3 is rather difficult to categorize due to the appearance of a variety of elements in one entry.

 

Thank you for your time. And thanks to Bioware for the no doubt incredible amount of effort into making a franchise that geeks all around can respond to and enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2
10K

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Personally I felt the ME2 characters were more relatable, they all had their issues and none we're claiming to be heroes. They all had their own purpose for being on the Normandy, and saving the universe probably wasn't it. In fact they left that purpose to Shepard. They felt like real people whom had flaws, which I enjoyed thoroughly. I don't want a carbon copy hero agenda to be the focus of Andromeda. I hoping for a more grimy realized experience. There should be conflict given Andromeda's premise, and I want to see how far EAware will take it. Sure there should be hero like personalities on our crew, but I don't want everyone to be like that.
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#3
Fogg

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Ah, someone from the DA forums asking for paladins in shining armor doing noble things!

 

I want the distinction between good and evil as grey and vaguely as possible, long live The Witcher


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#4
Pearl (rip bioware)

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None of the characters in ME2 really achieve anything in a sense, just the passage of time and the satisfaction of a mission well done, I guess, but that stuff I personally find quite boring.


You find people being big goddamn heroes boring? What, did you want them to discover the joys of friendship and love along the way or something?

You clearly spent a lot of time writing this and consulting thesauri to word things with as much gravitas as you could, but I haven't had my coffee yet this morning so all I can really say for now is that cut-and-dry hero/villan, light/dark, noble/sinister distinctions like the ones you seem to be suggesting are almost as boring as DAI was.
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#5
ZipZap2000

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There's nothing heroic or noble about the ME1 crew. Wrex is a hitman. Tali's a stray cat with grenades. Ashley's a racist jerk. Garrus is a racist jerk who wants to kill people he cant arrest. Liara is out to kill her mother. Kaiden is probably the only one who didn't do anything wrong and you could probably even say did something mildly heroic.
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#6
Han Shot First

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Kaiden is probably the only one who didn't do anything wrong and you could probably even say did something mildly heroic.


Dr. Strangeloving the nuke?
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#7
ZipZap2000

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Dr. Strangeloving the nuke?



Biotic kick to a bully's face is aight.

But mostly the nuke.
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#8
Catastrophy

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There's nothing heroic or noble about the ME1 crew. Wrex is a hitman. Tali's a stray cat with grenades. Ashley's a racist jerk. Garrus is a racist jerk who wants to kill people he cant arrest. Liara is out to kill her mother. Kaiden is probably the only one who didn't do anything wrong and you could probably even say did something mildly heroic.

Didn't Kaiden kill the Turian blotics teacher?



#9
wolfsite

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Didn't Kaiden kill the Turian blotics teacher?

Ya he did to protect a girl he cared about.



#10
Catastrophy

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Ya he did to protect a girl he cared about.

That's what she said.


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#11
The Elcor Spectre

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HEROES NEVER DIE!


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#12
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HEROES NEVER DIE!


Shepard did LOL
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#13
Obliviousmiss

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HEROES NEVER DIE!

 

 

giphy.gif

 

I've got you covered! 

 

Shepard did LOL

 

giphy.gif

 

Why. 


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#14
Pasquale1234

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None of the characters in ME2 really achieve anything in a sense, just the passage of time and the satisfaction of a mission well done, I guess, but that stuff I personally find quite boring.


Sure they did - they resolved their daddy issues. Or enlisted Shepard to fix them. Or not.

#15
Zarro Khai

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Don't most Bioware games have the whole 'heroic' tone covered anyway? It's usually the focus of their games. Bad things happen. PC turns out to be the only who can stop them. Gathers group of like minded individuals to help him/her in the quest to save the world (can't really get any more heroic then saving the world). As for companions, it wouldn't be as interesting if all the companions shared the same ideals or were all 'heroic'. 


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#16
9TailsFox

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giphy.gif

 

I've got you covered! 

That's my girl. :)

ban_healing_from_king_s_drilling_hole_by



#17
9TailsFox

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#18
AlanC9

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In ME2 these were largely replaced by what I think of as perfect genetic clones of heroic characters, right down to the teeth, in the form of but not limited Miranda, Jacob, Mordin, Grunt, and Jack, all of whom transposed ideations driven by a confluence of personal and heroic factors into ones strictly internally followed and revolving around personal ennui and loathing.


Ennui? How do you figure that fits in? Are you sure you know what the word means? For that matter, how are, say, Jacob and Miranda different from Ashley and Garrus? Different uniforms, not very different goals.

The case of Mordin is peculiarly egregious since he actually views his exclusively personal visions and ideations as grandly cultural and mythic ones which is kind of insane but I don't think he really pretends to be otherwise if you look closely..... probably would not even be offended by such a moniker. 


I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
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#19
capn233

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I don't see much of a difference between the heroism of ME1 and ME2.  Maybe I am not sophisticated enough.  Both had some characters with noble goals, both had some that may have been motivated by less than noble goals.

 

If anything, ME3 is where the heroism took a dip, even if the victory is larger in the end.



#20
Il Divo

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Don't most Bioware games have the whole 'heroic' tone covered anyway? It's usually the focus of their games. Bad things happen. PC turns out to be the only who can stop them. Gathers group of like minded individuals to help him/her in the quest to save the world (can't really get any more heroic then saving the world). As for companions, it wouldn't be as interesting if all the companions shared the same ideals or were all 'heroic'. 

 

That just about sums it up, I'd say. 


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#21
Iakus

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I don't want to live in a world where the strong rule and the weak cower. I'd rather make a place where things are a little quieter.  Where trolls stay the hell under their bridges, and where elves don't come swooping out to snatch children from their cradles.  Where vampires respect the limits, and where the faeries mind their p's and q's.

My name is Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden. Conjure by it at your own risk.


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#22
Khrystyn

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When I heard Ashley quote Tennyson's heroic lines from Ulysses, it bowled me over and is so appropriate for the underlying nature of the ME story.

 

    "Death closes all: but something ere the end,       51

     Some work of noble note, may yet be done,

     Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods."

 

    Ulysses. Alfred Lord Tennyson. (1842)

 

The heroic character and storyline is a quality that should NOT be lost in ME:A. If ME:A does not include the classic paragon hero, I will still want my hero/heroine to have noble qualities, even if as a rogue (i.e. Han Solo); someone whom I can still admire and respect. I'm not the renegade (mean-spirited) or villain (I want to cause havoc) type.


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#23
Jedi Comedian

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Personally I felt the ME2 characters were more relatable, they all had their issues and none we're claiming to be heroes. They all had their own purpose for being on the Normandy, and saving the universe probably wasn't it. In fact they left that purpose to Shepard. They felt like real people whom had flaws,

This. I want scoundrels, outlaws and renegades, not self-righterous shits.

#24
Hanako Ikezawa

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HEROES NEVER DIE!

They just go Missing In Action. 



#25
mopotter

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I would like options.  I liked the ME1 version of paragon/renegade and neutral.   (To me self-righteous is on the bad side of personality qualities)

 

Someone wants to be a character who is self-absorbed, arrogant, cruel, judgmental, vengeful, violent - have replies that reflect this.  

But include the other side like giving, confident not arrogant, compassionate, tolerant, forgiving, diplomatic

and I'll probably pick from both options depending on the situation.  

 

The 3rd choice of the balanced neutral sort of reply helps me round my character off.  I missed this in ME2 and especially in ME3.  

 

I don't always want a tyrant, renegade or a Saint.  Most of the time I want to play someone I like.   A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

I like Harry Dresden, Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Zoe Washburne, Torin Kerr and Esmay Suiza.   


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