151 réponses à ce sujet

[10K]

I don't know about any of you but I always found disruptor ammo, warp ammo, etc... as a waste of an ability. I don't believe they should take up an entire power slot, especially now that MP have introduced so many knew abilities that can work with every class. I propose special ammo be reduced into some type of weapon mod that don't last the entire mission. I think it would be cool to carry a few with you and the effect last until it's time to switch out for a new thermal clip. I think it would be much more interesting this way. So any Ideas?

[ZipZap2000]

I'm going to watch this before I decide. Hopefully some of you will sway me with your arguments.

[Serza]

Much like in real life, you should be able to carry several magazines of a different ammunition type.

 

Say I'm using an M4. Well, I have the Mk318 loaded, but that dude out there is really, really far away, so I load the Mk262, or even the M856A1.

 

Of course, we have to consider how ammunition works. It's still infinite, thermal clips just eat up the heat  from the weapon discharge, which would easily jam a rifle after a couple mags in our times. Why don't they last a couple hundred rounds, I don't know, maybe Mass Accelerators generate a much larger amount of heat than traditional gunpowder based weapons.

[10K]

Much like in real life, you should be able to carry several magazines of a different ammunition type.
 
Say I'm using an M4. Well, I have the Mk318 loaded, but that dude out there is really, really far away, so I load the Mk262, or even the M856A1.
 
Of course, we have to consider how ammunition works. It's still infinite, thermal clips just eat up the heat  from the weapon discharge, which would easily jam a rifle after a couple mags in our times. Why don't they last a couple hundred rounds, I don't know, maybe Mass Accelerators generate a much larger amount of heat than traditional gunpowder based weapons.

Those are different ammo types, I'm talking about ammo effects. Warp ammo, disruptor ammo aren't ammo types per se, they empower the weapons you're using, causing the ammo you have already to emit a specific power. I'd like them to be reduced to a power up or mod that you can equip inside of battle so that the clip you're currently using would dawn those effects.

[Rascoth]

I always found ammo powers... bizzare. They felt like fillers, so each class had the same number of powers. Especially in Soldier's case (take any of those and give me Fortification). So yeah, I would take them in any other form - as long as they don't take up power space (hell, they can disappear altogether as long as they don't take up power space).

 

If they plan to include them, I think mods picked before the mission would work nice.

[Serza]

Those are different ammo types, I'm talking about ammo effects. Warp ammo, disruptor ammo aren't ammo types per se, they empower the weapons you're using, causing the ammo you have already to emit a specific power. I'd like them to be reduced to a power up or mod that you can equip inside of battle so that the clip you're currently using would dawn those effects.

 

Yet only Warp Ammo and Biotics makes sense in this way.

 

For Incendiary, Disruptor, Cryo, and even Concussive Shot, it makes more sense you would load in a fresh ammunition magazine.

 

Carnage, AP ammo, these only support this.

 

Let's do this again, this time I'll use the Russian 5.45.

 

You got the 7N6 round. Now you want to penetrate a heavy armor plate, so your options are the 7N10 or the 7N22 (forget hte 7N24 for now). You alternatively have the tracers in 7T3 rounds, or the subsonic ammunition in 7U1.

 

So you switch out your mag, and fire off one more shot before the ammunition takes effect, depending on whether your mag was empty before the reload or not.

 

With most ammunition types, this would work exactly the same way.

 

 

 

There is also a reason they call 'em Thermal Clips and not Thermal Magazines. Traditionally, stripper clips, or en-bloc clips, only hold the ammo together (as seen with the SKS, the Kar-98k, Lee Enfield, M1 Garand, G41 and G43, etc...) and would be put inside the non-detachable box magazine through the ejection port.

 

SKS stripper clips could also be used to load AK47 and AKM magazines, but not to load the rifles themselves (AKs have a side ejection port - this is arguably a disadvantage compared to the Sa vz. 58).

 

Meanwhile, a magazine CONTAINS the ammunition, and most modern firearms are fed by detachable box mags (see the STANAG mag for the 5.56, the Russian 30rnd 5.45 mag, or even the .45 ACP 30rnd mag for the Thompson, 7.92x33k 30rnd MKb42(H)/MP43/StG44 mags, Sten gun mags, hell, BREN guns, etc.)

 

Where am I going with this? Well... have you ever compared the size of the thermal clips you find on the ground an the size of the ejected (spent) thermal clip? It's half, maybe third the size of the fresh clip. The heat strips some sort of coolant off the clip, which is why you have to reload - there is no cooling once the clip is gone.

 

This also leads me to the firm belief that reloading a half-spent clip would lead to the ejection of a clip that is roughly half way between the full size, and the spent size.

[Serza]

Oh, look... I think my weapons knowledge killed the thread.

 

Shame, could've been a decent suggestion.

[10K]

Oh, look... I think my weapons knowledge killed the thread.
 
Shame, could've been a decent suggestion.

Meh, happens all the time.

[BloodyMares]

Yes, they need to return to Mass Effect roots and make ammo types into upgrades again.

[10K]

Yes, they need to return to Mass Effect roots and make ammo types into upgrades again.

So true, I liked having the decision of choosing which which ammo mod I wanted to use in ME1. They should definitely do that again.

[MyDamnAlterEgo]

My suggestion here would be: special ammo types are generated by an organic part of the weapon, named, say, ammo feed system. Simpler ones do not generate any types of special ammo, more advanced ones generate one type, most advanced ones - two types switchable. Generating the special ammo should be switchable on and off. Switching on reduces the weapons rate of fire a bit. And - naturally - ammo feed systems are part of weapon customization. 

If you have weapons with different special ammo types - switching weapons should switch the special ammo types as well.

[Demondragon24]

Agreed, ammo powers need to be ammo mods. I think this would free up the classes to have new powers/focuses put in. they made the change in ME3 to give us the ability to customize are gun load-outs, so giving us more freedom in choosing which powers we use would be good too. I am sure there are some out there that like the ammo powers but this way there would be the possibility of a more distinct feel to each PC for each playthrough. Right now I use game mods to get a similar result.

[heinoMK2]

I'd go for the following approach:

 

Basic weapons have infinite ammo, like in ME1.

Basic ammo mods can change the shape of the charge to make it more efficient in terms of armour penetration or increase its stopping power.

 

Special ammo mods can add effects improving the ammo against shields, barriers, turn the projectiles into mini-grenades etc, just like the ammo powers in ME2/3.

Special mods would require ammunition. Each ammunition pack would increase your total equipment weight by a certain amount.

 

Certain advanced weapons would allow to switch between standard firing mode with infinite ammo and firing mods where you choose the special ammo, depleting this particular reserve. Standard weapons would come without the switch and you'd have to chose whether to go with infinite ammo or with powerful yet limited special ammo for the duration of the mission.

 

Additional possibilities:

 

To improve viability of AR(imo they were inferior in ME3), assault rifles get 1 more modification slot, allowing better customization and some interesting ammo combinations.

 

To improve viability of certain archetypes, like those bulky/tanky characters with mostly defensive/useless/weak powers like James Vega in ME3, there could be a module for a weapon slot that produces charges/ammo packs for these special mods. A bit like the Demolisher's ammo generator but mobile.

[Serza]

I like this human. They understand.

 

Detail, though: Shape of the charge is never adjusted to improve a characteristic, not even with HEAT/ High Explosive Anti-Tank, commonly known as "shaped charge". Always the shape of the round, sometimes the HE filling... Charges are actually completely rendered obsolete by mass effect, which propels rounds at speeds comparable to modern Gauss weaponry (prototypes exist). All the rounds in Mass Effect are not only caseless, they are also powderless.

 

As for Assault Rifle class weapons, I felt they were perfectly fine - filling the role of a versatile, all range, fully automatic weapons suitable for any combat scenario.

 

Pistols and submachineguns would lose out either in rate of fire or precision, while sniper rifles were awkward to wield up close, and shotguns had a limited range - Masters of their trades, with pistols being relatively precise, semi-automatic, submachine guns could spit lead down range quickly. Sniper rifles could deliver a massively damaging shot from afar, same with shotguns point-blank. Assault rifles were the jacks of all trades, masters of none, which suited me perfectly. I could use my Avenger or Lancer, and I knew that no matter the firefight, my weapon would suffice for it.

[Sartoz]

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Hey, if you want a game option to give the AI opponents a handicap, I don't mind.  Besides, I think Jos mentioned that the combat levels he's designing will be interesting, dynamic and tough.  If so, why weaken oneself even further?

 

 

 

 

[AlanC9]

Agreed, ammo powers need to be ammo mods. I think this would free up the classes to have new powers/focuses put in.

I always figured it was the other way around -- ammo became powers when so many of the ME1 abilities became superfluous and they needed to have more powers

[capn233]

Well if we were going by real life we would need to remove biotics and tech powers.

 

What powers are you going to give combat classes to make up for removing ammo powers?

 

I always figured it was the other way around -- ammo became powers when so many of the ME1 abilities became superfluous and they needed to have more powers

 

Yes it was the result of streamlining or combining some powers in ME2, for the most part.

[Element Zero]

I don't know about any of you but I always found disruptor ammo, warp ammo, etc... as a waste of an ability. I don't believe they should take up an entire power slot, especially now that MP have introduced so many knew abilities that can work with every class. I propose special ammo be reduced into some type of weapon mod that don't last the entire mission. I think it would be cool to carry a few with you and the effect last until it's time to switch out for a new thermal clip. I think it would be much more interesting this way. So any Ideas?

While I think you're selling Disruptor Ammo (it stuns organic opponents in ME3) and Warp Ammo (best general purpose ammo in ME2 that was openly available), I agree with your post. I always felt like the ammo powers were a bit like "fillers". This is part of maintaining balance, though. If they give us too many cool powers, we will be completely over-powered and unchallengeable (even more so than Shepard in ME3 already is).

Still, when I go back to ME to start a new character, I always enjoy the fact that I can just slap in "Polonium Rounds" and get on with my day. (Nothing like dusting your foes with illegal radioactive ammo.) On the other hand, Incendiary Burst ammunition is way too good to be simply an ammo upgrade, and is definitely worthy of and expenditure of skill points. If I could do such in ME, I'd likely drop one of my powers in a second to grab IB ammo effect. So, take that as you will. There are advantages and disadvantages to each system.

Having ammo upgrades as equipment is more realistic, and it frees up power slots for actual powers. Having ammo powers allows those powers to evolve in ways that grant far more power than ammo upgrades can rightly provide.

Perhaps there is a solution to two questions herein? Ammo upgrades make a return, and powerful ammo powers become the primary province of the Soldier? I'm just spitballing. I'm not sure even I like the idea, having not really spent much thought on it, yet.

[Cyonan]

I like the idea of making them weapon upgrades again, though you'd probably need some new abilities for the Soldier since that's the class that used the bulk of them and not all of the MP abilities that were new for Soldiers would make a ton of sense.

 

You'd also have to give Soldiers and Vanguards something so they keep their weapons superiority over the "caster" classes, since Incendiary Rounds was a huge part of that in ME3 SP.

[Pasquale1234]

Having ammo as powers (instead of mods) makes it quick and easy to change ammo type as you are faced with enemies with different characteristics and in different situations.

It is true that ammo types were mods in ME1, but then ME1's inventory made it super easy to swap mods in the field.

[Iakus]

I never understood why modded ammo is considered a "power"

 

I mean, does an adept not how how to push the "cryo ammo" button on their guns?

[capn233]

Having ammo upgrades as equipment is more realistic, and it frees up power slots for actual powers. Having ammo powers allows those powers to evolve in ways that grant far more power than ammo upgrades can rightly provide.

Perhaps there is a solution to two questions herein? Ammo upgrades make a return, and powerful ammo powers become the primary province of the Soldier? I'm just spitballing. I'm not sure even I like the idea, having not really spent much thought on it, yet.

 

I suppose you could create combat powers that buff ammos in some sort of way.  Main problem with designing combat powers and especially Soldier is how many powers should actually be active vs passive, and for the active powers which should simply be time-limited buffs vs direct damage powers.  Giving too many of the latter makes it seem more like a token caster that has "combat primers and detonators" as opposed to purple/red/blue/white primers or detonators.

[yolobastien6412]

If they decide to add ammo types as mods, have them in the equipment style of ME1, where you can just change and swap them out depending on the enemy, instead of a weapon mod à la ME3.

[capn233]

Since it wasn't directly mentioned here, but it is a pretty similar issue, if grenades are in MEA I would rather them be more like the generic ME1 grenades which are then modified to produce the desired effect and not necessarily used to fill a power slot.

[AlanC9]

Yes it was the result of streamlining or combining some powers in ME2, for the most part.

The funny thing is that ME3 has workable versions of Carnage and Marksman; I don't see why new versions of the other two couldn't have been invented.

And let's not bring back the ME1 feature where only Shepard could throw a grenade.