151 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

To continue haphazardly posting here, how many powers / talents should a character in SP mode actually have?

 

ME3's classes had 6 "powers" along with 2 passives and a bonus.  Probably half of the powers weren't really necessary, and in the end didn't even necessarily contribute much to variety in builds given how homogenized the gameplay became with combos.

 

Incidentally, this was the same number of talents that the ME1 classes had, or 2 more than ME2 classes.  There wasn't really any more build variety for the classes between the three games even considering ME2 had fewer powers per class.

 

Hopefully we won't get anything like the mess that is the DAI talent trees.

[Rascoth]

Since it wasn't directly mentioned here, but it is a pretty similar issue, if grenades are in MEA I would rather them be more like the generic ME1 grenades which are then modified to produce the desired effect and not necessarily used to fill a power slot.

I almost forgot about this.

 

Even more bizzare than ammo powers.

[The Dystopian Hound]

I don't know about any of you but I always found disruptor ammo, warp ammo, etc... as a waste of an ability. I don't believe they should take up an entire power slot, especially now that MP have introduced so many knew abilities that can work with every class. I propose special ammo be reduced into some type of weapon mod that don't last the entire mission. I think it would be cool to carry a few with you and the effect last until it's time to switch out for a new thermal clip. I think it would be much more interesting this way. So any Ideas?

ehhh

[Cyonan]

To continue haphazardly posting here, how many powers / talents should a character in SP mode actually have?

 

ME3's classes had 6 "powers" along with 2 passives and a bonus.  Probably half of the powers weren't really necessary, and in the end didn't even necessarily contribute much to variety in builds given how homogenized the gameplay became with combos.

 

Incidentally, this was the same number of talents that the ME1 classes had, or 2 more than ME2 classes.  There wasn't really any more build variety for the classes between the three games even considering ME2 had fewer powers per class.

 

Hopefully we won't get anything like the mess that is the DAI talent trees.

 

At this point you could possibly do a system where you let the player pick their abilities, but only within the class that they picked.

 

Cause ME3 MP did have a ton of extra abilities that would work well in their own builds, but not really as some weird amalgamation that has both Adrenaline Rush and Flamer in the same build.

[BloodyMares]

Well if we were going by real life we would need to remove biotics and tech powers.

 

What powers are you going to give combat classes to make up for removing ammo powers?

 

Some of the ME1 and multiplayer powers like Assassination, Immunity, Ballistic Blades, Tactical Scan, Havoc Strike, Stimulant Pack (or at least Shield Boost). Pick your favorites. And sadly Soldier didn't have any debuffing powers in any of the 3 games.

[Silvos]

I think that the addition of the Soldier abilities from ME3 MP should relegate ammo powers and grenades to gear. Why should the Soldier be stuck with ammo powers and grenades when their are powers like Siege Pulse, Devastator Mode and Blade Armor?

[CHRrOME]

Without getting all technical here, I like the idea of ammo mods or some sort of consumable rather than an ability/skill tree.

[capn233]

Some of the ME1 and multiplayer powers like Assassination, Immunity, Ballistic Blades, Tactical Scan, Havoc Strike, Stimulant Pack (or at least Shield Boost). Pick your favorites. And sadly Soldier didn't have any debuffing powers in any of the 3 games.

 

With clear delineation of roles between classes or at the least combat/tech/biotics, it may be that Soldier shouldn't have debuff powers.

[capn233]

At this point you could possibly do a system where you let the player pick their abilities, but only within the class that they picked.

 

You can largely approximate picking a set of abilities by limiting the number of talent points.  ME3 SP classes could max nearly every talent, which doesn't lend itself to a variety of builds.

[Element Zero]

I'm definitely eager to see what they deliver. In regard to powers, I haven't yet seen or read any solutions that are clearly superior to the structure we've been using these last two games. (Of course, none of us are paid to sit around and come up with such a system.)

The real desire seems to be for more variety. I don't think anyone is necessarily against that, as long as it is executed in a logical and balanced way. As cap223 said, the real built in control is in the number of skill points. In ME3, we had tons of skill points, but many were superfluous, since only two or three powers and/or a passive or two were actually useful to our build. If we had been given a lot of more "useful" powers, though, we'd have had even more brokenly powerful SP Shepards.

I do hope we get new options. I assume we will see some new stuff in a new game. I hope we can build more varied characters in balanced ways.

[Serza]

I've done a quick run-through... and Iwholly agree with the "grenades as grenades, not powers" suggestion.

 

I also think it would be nice to take a book out of modern firearms' function with ammo powers. I'll write it up nicely later, in case BW actually has people scouring these places for ideas (I consider this unlikely) and likes what I got.

[Guanxii]

They're unique types of ammo not weapon mods or skills. Multiplayer did it best making ammo into simple consumable items of different grades/values I-IV.

 

Rather than have enemies just drop thermal clips, lets have many different types of *ammo* clips in the game carried at random (difficulty dependant e.g. III-IV on Insanity). Certain factions might all carry certain weapons and ammo types, e.g. Blue Suns use Disruptor Ammo.

 

For simplicity's sake let's assume these can be used on any weapon:

 

Thermal clips - standard rechargeable clips (common item), no extra damage effects 

Warp Ammo clips - extra armor damage when used in-conjunction with warp, reave or dark channel

Incendiary Ammo - extra health/armor damage, fire explosions

Disruptor Ammo - extra shield damage (auto), tech combos

Phasic Ammo - extra shield damage (rifle)

Cryo Ammo - armor weakening, cryo explosions

AP Ammo - extra armor damage, cover penetration

Drill Ammo - extreme penetration

Shredder Ammo - extra health damage

[BloodyMares]

Why use clips when your weapon can fire without overheating with a couple of heat sinks installed?

[Cyonan]

You can largely approximate picking a set of abilities by limiting the number of talent points.  ME3 SP classes could max nearly every talent, which doesn't lend itself to a variety of builds.

 

This would also work well, and allow for more partial builds where you only take 3-4 ranks into an ability rather than maxing it out.

 

I never really did get why Mass Effect 3 just let you max out basically everything but 1 ability to rank 3.

[Guanxii]

Why use clips when your weapon can fire without overheating with a couple of heat sinks installed?

 

Have all guns use either thermal clips or ammo clips depending on user preference. Thermal clips would be your basic common items which recharge but do no extra effects. All guns use thermal clips by default.

 

Ammo clips would be optional, scarcer and come in many different varieties. Weapon based classes such as Infiltrator, Soldier and Vanguard would thrive using high grade ammo clips specifically tailored to their builds.

 

Thermal clips are general purpose low grade munitions and would provide little benefit to these classes except for backup.

[Cyonan]

Have all guns use either thermal clips or ammo clips depending on user preference. Thermal clips would be your basic common items which recharge but do no extra effects. All guns use thermal clips by default.

 

Ammo clips would be rarer and finite but typically provide higher damage output, and unique effects, i.e. sources of tech combos. Using high grade ammo clips for example could be expensive but would make mediocre guns much more effective. Weapon based classes such as Infiltrator, Soldier and Vanguard would thrive using high grade ammo clips. Thermal clips are low grade munitions and would provide little benefit to these classes.

 

Guns in Mass Effect don't actually use ammo, though.

 

They fire sand grain sized "bullets" shaved off a block of metal that only ever needs replacing in between missions(something we don't see in-game). The reason for Thermal Clips is to rapidly disperse heat generated from firing the gun. They aren't actually munitions, they're just a heat sink.

 

I'd prefer just having them as an upgrade slot like it was in ME1.

 

Except this time make Incendiary Rounds not broken like it was in ME3 =P

[Serza]

Oh? Sand grain sized? That's an interesting solution.

 

The effect on target must suffer as a result, but such a high-velocity round likely doesn't care.

I always thought they'd be comparable to modern calibers in size, which of course spurred the thoughts towards finding out just how this works.

[capn233]

Oh? Sand grain sized? That's an interesting solution.

 

The effect on target must suffer as a result, but such a high-velocity round likely doesn't care.

I always thought they'd be comparable to modern calibers in size, which of course spurred the thoughts towards finding out just how this works.

 

It doesn't suffer because of space-magic.

 

Ultra small tungsten bits shot at hypervelocity would end up working more like a particle beam than a modern day firearm.

[Xerxes52]

Personally I would be fine with ammo powers being converted into mods, but as reusable mods (like barrel extensions, grips, scopes, etc.) rather than consumables.

[Guanxii]

Guns in Mass Effect don't actually use ammo, though.

 

They fire sand grain sized "bullets" shaved off a block of metal that only ever needs replacing in between missions(something we don't see in-game). The reason for Thermal Clips is to rapidly disperse heat generated from firing the gun. They aren't actually munitions, they're just a heat sink.

 

I'd prefer just having them as an upgrade slot like it was in ME1.

 

Except this time make Incendiary Rounds not broken like it was in ME3 =P

 

And then ME2 Happened. Thermal Clips are ammo clips now because gameplay. I say just make thermal a type of *ammo* and be done with it. People who like the ME1 system can have their cake, people who like the traditional ME2 'ammo powers' can have theirs too.

 

Conflating the ammo powers gameplay system with the weapon mod system is a bad idea from a testing pov. Ammo is inherently consumable and needs to be treated as an inventory item with monetary value - if you can modify & upgrade your gun it only makes sense that you should be able to upgrade to better ammo as well.

[capn233]

If they try to shoe-horn in thermal clips and also passive cooling simultaneously, thermal clips better deliver on their promise of higher dps.

[Cyonan]

And then ME2 Happened. Thermal Clips are ammo clips now because gameplay. I say just make thermal a type of *ammo* and be done with it. People who like the ME1 system can have their cake, people who like the traditional ME2 'ammo powers' can have theirs too.

 

If we're going that route then I would say that I don't like the idea of limited ammo clips for the ammo powers and that they should just be an upgrade to the gun while Thermal Clip remains the traditional "ammo" of the game.

 

Especially if we're going to make Soldiers reliant on them.

[Guanxii]

If we're going that route then I would say that I don't like the idea of limited ammo clips for the ammo powers and that they should just be an upgrade to the gun while Thermal Clip remains the traditional "ammo" of the game.

 

Especially if we're going to make Soldiers reliant on them.

 

Let soldiers carry more ammo and use it more effectively with Adrenaline Rush. All classes should have monetary trade offs... e.g. adepts may spend their money on biotic amp upgrades and armor upgrades at the expense of weapon upgrades/mods and ammo clips by making do with thermal clips to save money.

 

A soldier doesn't have to burn through the higher grade stuff all the time only when necessary, e.g. using incendiary ammo i-ii for mid tier enemies and lower difficulties at lower cost. On higher difficulties they should be earning more credits so can afford better ammo more regularly. 

[Cyonan]

Let soldiers carry more ammo and use it more effectively with Adrenaline Rush. All classes should have monetary trade offs... e.g. adepts may spend their money on biotic amp upgrades and armor upgrades at the expense of weapon upgrades/mods and ammo clips by making do with thermal clips to save money.

 

A soldier doesn't have to burn through the higher grade stuff all the time only when necessary, e.g. using incendiary ammo i-ii for mid tier enemies and lower difficulties at lower cost. On higher difficulties they should be earning more credits so can afford better ammo more regularly. 

 

Even if they brought back monetary costs, Soldiers already would have to upgrade their weapons and armour. Making the ammo consumables just ensures that the Soldier now has a never ending money sink that the Adepts and Engineers don't have to worry about as much. It's just making things more expensive for the Soldier than everybody else.

 

but in general Mass Effect is an action RPG. I don't really care as much for the idea of limited use ammo types, since I would like to actually be able to use my abilities on a regular basis in the action combat. I don't even care much for the limited use grenades in SP either.

[ZipZap2000]

I almost forgot about this.

Even more bizzare than ammo powers.

It was ridiculous.

Not only did they take a power slot, the power slot came with ammo limitations. So you had to choose between more force and damage or the ability to use said force and damage in the upgrade tree.